Pro-Israel BBC bias on Flotilla Massacre documentary.

Brown Bomber · 01-10-2010 1:10am

alastair wrote: »

Red herring my arse

Flattered. But thanks but no thanks - your not my type.

alastair wrote: »

there's no evidence that anyone was shot prior to the boarding - as reflected in the UN report. So when you state: It's a supposition not endorsed by the UN report.

1. Eye-witness testimony is evidence.
2. The UN report clearly states (for the umpteenth time)

However, it has concluded that live ammunition was used from the helicopter onto the top deck prior to the descent of the soldiers.

So who were they firing at then FFS if not the passengers? The Muslim passengers who had gathered on the top deck for dawn prayers.

I don't know what your game is but it's getting on my tits at this stage to be honest. You selectively quote from all my posts and don't address any of the real points. I can't work out if your in denial, afraid to admit you were wrong or simply taking the piss.

alastair wrote: »

The IDF certainly shouldn't have boarded as they did, but spare the 'crime against humanity' exaggerations and fabricated claims for the UN report.

here we go again. According to the ICC any of these offenses committed systematically is a crime against humanity.

(a) Murder;
(b) Extermination;
(c) Enslavement;
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
(f) Torture;
(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
(j) The crime of apartheid;
(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.

I make that 6.

alastair · 01-10-2010 1:25am

6 arbitary selections from a list that doesn't have anything to do with the boarding of the ship? Has anyone been charged with murder, let alone found guilty? Nope.

The UN report is quite clear about the sequence of deaths and what point they happened. It makes clear that the first four deaths occurred in the 15 minutes of the initial boarding - they make no mention of any deaths prior to the boarding - end of story.

Shot in the chest from the helicopter. i.e. before any IDF had boarded. Therefore not IDF self-defense.

'Fraid not.

Brown Bomber · 01-10-2010 1:42am

alastair wrote: »

6 arbitary selections from a list that doesn't have anything to do with the boarding of the ship? Has anyone been charged with murder, let alone found guilty? Nope.

The UN report is quite clear about the sequence of deaths and what point they happened. It makes clear that the first four deaths occurred in the 15 minutes of the initial boarding - they make no mention of any deaths prior to the boarding - end of story.

'Fraid not.

It's impossible to have any kind of meaningful engagement with you. You are clearly in denial.

meglome · 01-10-2010 1:56am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

It's impossible to have any kind of meaningful engagement with you. You are clearly in denial.

I still don't know which parts of that documentary are biased.

King Mob · 01-10-2010 1:59am

meglome wrote: »

I still don't know which parts of that documentary are biased.

The bits that show Israelis as human beings and not evil death machines for whatever bollocks BB buys into?

uprising2 · 01-10-2010 2:12am

King Mob wrote: »

The bits that show Israelis as human beings and not evil death machines for whatever bollocks BB buys into?

Hang on a fukking minute, never has BB painted Israeli citizens as anything but human, its the zionist scum he has a problem with, well it's not a problem, its Indignation.

You can cover your eyes and humm all you like, doesn't mean others have to.

King Mob · 01-10-2010 2:14am

uprising2 wrote: »

Hang on a fukking minute, never has BB painted Israeli citizens as anything but human, its the zionist scum he has a problem with, well it's not a problem, its Indignation.

He makes a distinction?

uprising2 · 01-10-2010 2:23am

King Mob wrote: »

He makes a distinction?

PM him, now fukk off taking another thread off course.

Your forever trying to shoot the messanger.
Your shooting blanks into a barrel with no fish in it, try realize that.

He does make the distinction, you just don't/won't see it.

Mahatma coat · 01-10-2010 4:48am

Just one thing, the UN Report that BB Keeps Quoting, that seems to me to be a genuine UN Report, and it CLEARLY States that shots were fired from he Helicopter PRIOR To Boarding, or Have I read that wrong???

Alastair, if thats not what it says Would you like to show us what it actually says??

oh BB you missed J on that list;)

old_aussie · 01-10-2010 6:05am

Maybe the BBC believes that any nation has a right to, by any means, stop support being given to a terrorist run country.

The people elected the terrorists to run their country so the people are nothing but terrorists themselves.

The Israelis should have sunk the flotilla.

Mahatma coat · 01-10-2010 6:16am

old_aussie wrote: »

Maybe the BBC believes that any nation has a right to, by any means, stop support being given to a terrorist run country.

And who decides which camp People get put in??? One mans Freedom Fighter Etc, Do We the Irish have a right to Exterminate any Israeli that comes to our Country because they MIGHT Steal someones Passport, therby compromising National Security?????

The people elected the terrorists to run their country so the people are nothing but terrorists themselves.

And if the Other side Elect a LandStealing Apartheid Rgieme they shouldnt be Surprised if a Large Portion of the World Consider them SCUMBAGS

The Israelis should have sunk the flotilla.

Lovely Fella aint ya, Realisticly t5he Flotilla Passengers would have been well within their Rights to Kill the soldiers and carry on, The 'Pirates' Had no Rights they acted illegally and deserve to Swing from a Yardarm somewhere

Brown Bomber · 01-10-2010 8:40am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Just one thing, the UN Report that BB Keeps Quoting, that seems to me to be a genuine UN Report, and it CLEARLY States that shots were fired from he Helicopter PRIOR To Boarding, or Have I read that wrong???

Alastair, if thats not what it says Would you like to show us what it actually says??

oh BB you missed J on that list;)

I think when the report says "live" fire alastair gets mixed and thinks it says "live" (as in live forever) fire, fire that makes you live longer.

Yeah here is the report - http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/FlotillaReport.pdf

Point 114

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/FlotillaReport.pdf

However, it has concluded that live ammunition was used from the helicopter onto the top deck prior to the descent of the soldiers.

alastair · 01-10-2010 8:47am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Just one thing, the UN Report that BB Keeps Quoting, that seems to me to be a genuine UN Report, and it CLEARLY States that shots were fired from he Helicopter PRIOR To Boarding, or Have I read that wrong???

Alastair, if thats not what it says Would you like to show us what it actually says??

oh BB you missed J on that list;)

It says shots were fired prior to the boarding alright - it also says that no-one was killed before the boarding started.
I'd have thought the distinction between shooting and actually killing someone was fairly self-evident?

During the operation to secure control of the top deck, the Israeli forces landed
soldiers from three helicopters over a fifteen-minute period.71 The Israeli forces used
paintballs, plastic bullets and live ammunition, fired by soldiers from the helicopter above
and soldiers who had landed on the top deck. The use of live ammunition during this period
resulted in fatal injuries to four passengers,

Brown Bomber · 01-10-2010 9:00am

alastair wrote: »

It says shots were fired prior to the boarding alright - it also says that no-one was killed before the boarding started.
I'd have thought the distinction between shooting and actually killing someone was fairly self-evident?

So why didn't you quote the part were it says no one was killed before boarding then

So you do accept that there was live rounds fired before boarding then? So what in your opinion does that mean for the IDF story of self-defense?

Phill Ewinn · 01-10-2010 9:10am

alastair wrote: »

Has anyone been charged with murder, let alone found guilty?

Stand out the most ridiculous argument I've had the displeasure of reading on this thread. Do you honestly expect the soldiers to man up and face prosecution? The jist of the UN report so far points to a grave wrong doing by the Israeli pirates on that day. I think you should accept that and move on.

alastair · 01-10-2010 9:26am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So why didn't you quote the part were it says no one was killed before boarding then

Sorry for your ongoing confusion - if mortalities didn't occur until the boarding - as reported by the UN, then the converse is equally true - no-one was killed prior to the boarding.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So you do accept that there was live rounds fired before boarding then? So what in your opinion does that mean for the IDF story of self-defense?

Sure I do. It means nothing if they didn't shoot anyone until they were attacked themsleves - as indicated by the UN report.

old_aussie · 01-10-2010 9:31am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

The 'Pirates' Had no Rights they acted illegally and deserve to Swing from a Yardarm somewhere

Those pirates are just as bad as people who denigrate another countries National Flag :rolleyes:

alastair · 01-10-2010 9:31am

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Stand out the most ridiculous argument I've had the displeasure of reading on this thread. Do you honestly expect the soldiers to man up and face prosecution? The jist of the UN report so far points to a grave wrong doing by the Israeli pirates on that day. I think you should accept that and move on.

'Man up' eh?

We know that there were homicides. It's for a court to determine if there were murders, and until then it's a moot point whether that fact causes you displeasure or not.

Mahatma coat · 01-10-2010 9:35am

alastair wrote: »

It says shots were fired prior to the boarding alright

OK so they Shot People from the Helicopter BEFORE they Landed

dosent that Destroy the Myth that the initial intention was NON Lethal

- it also says that no-one was killed before the boarding started[/quote
But People HAD been shot and were DYING on the Deck prior to them landing to 'Confirm the Kill'

I'd have thought the distinction between shooting and actually killing someone was fairly self-evident?

:rolleyes: right, imagine this, I follow you home, as you reach your front gate I shoot you in the Stomach with a HK MP5, 6-8 9MM Rounds rip yer internal organs to bits and your stomach acid start burning the rest, You crawl into your house, collapse in the doorway and an Ambulance is called, now I didnt Kill you, when I left at high speed in my 535 you were Still alive, By your logic I havent Killed you.

Somehow I doubt the coroner will record a verdict of Death by Natural causes tho :rolleyes:

alastair · 01-10-2010 9:36am

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK so they Shot People from the Helicopter BEFORE they Landed

Who said that?

Not the UN for sure.

Brown Bomber · 01-10-2010 9:37am

alastair wrote: »

Sorry for your ongoing confusion - if mortalities didn't occur until the boarding - as reported by the UN, then the converse is equally true - no-one was killed prior to the boarding.

Sure I do. It means nothing if they didn't shoot anyone until they were attacked themsleves - as indicated by the UN report.

Are you reading it upside down? It doesn't seem like you have read it all, just pretending to.

2nd time of asking - Show where is says nobody was killed, or fatally wounded prior to boarding.

alastair · 01-10-2010 9:39am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Are you reading it upside down? It doesn't seem like you have read it all, just pretending to.

2nd time of asking - Show where is says nobody was killed, or fatally wounded prior to boarding.

I'd suggest you try to ramp up those reading comprehension skills:

During the operation to secure control of the top deck, the Israeli forces landed soldiers from three helicopters over a fifteen-minute period.71 The Israeli forces used paintballs, plastic bullets and live ammunition, fired by soldiers from the helicopter above and soldiers who had landed on the top deck. The use of live ammunition during this period resulted in fatal injuries to four passengers,

Mahatma coat · 01-10-2010 9:42am

old_aussie wrote: »

Those pirates are just as bad as people who denigrate another countries National Flag :rolleyes:

this is MY Country Too, and thats My Flag, but anyway we digress

Brown Bomber · 01-10-2010 9:44am

alastair wrote: »

I'd suggest you try to ramp up those reading comprehension skills:

That doesn't say what you claim. Your clutching at straws, big time.

It means nothing if they didn't shoot anyone until they were attacked themsleves

So firing a gun at civilians is not an attack in alistair world?

alastair · 01-10-2010 9:50am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

That doesn't say what you claim. Your clutching at straws, big time.

It says exactly what it appears to say. No fatal injuries / mortalities until boarding began.

harryd2 · 01-10-2010 10:27am

alastair wrote:

Has anyone been charged with murder, let alone found guilty?

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Stand out the most ridiculous argument I've had the displeasure of reading on this thread. Do you honestly expect the soldiers to man up and face prosecution? The jist of the UN report so far points to a grave wrong doing by the Israeli pirates on that day. I think you should accept that and move on.

Indeed reminds me of the arguments after the fallout from Bloody Sunday & Widgery
Clutching at straws..

robtri · 01-10-2010 11:08am

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So firing a gun at civilians is not an attack in alistair world?

and attacking a solider with bars is also an attack.....

Phill Ewinn · 01-10-2010 12:47pm

robtri wrote: »

and attacking a solider with bars is also an attack.....

Defending yourself against pirates (using non lethal means I add) isn't criminal either.

robtri · 01-10-2010 3:30pm

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Defending yourself against pirates (using non lethal means I add) isn't criminal either.

purposely provoking another and being armed isnt criminal, stupid but not criminal i will agree ... and tthe opposing side arent pirates....

Phill Ewinn · 01-10-2010 3:36pm

robtri wrote: »

purposely provoking another and being armed isnt criminal, stupid but not criminal i will agree ... and tthe opposing side arent pirates....

That's a point worth debating.

noun
a person who attacks and robs ships at sea

How is it that you've come to the conclusion that this description doesn't fit?

Pro-Israel BBC bias on Flotilla Massacre documentary.

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