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Pope's Astronomer would baptise an alien

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    #32
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Would he let them become altar boys???


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    #33
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    seamus wrote: »
    Interesting that he'd only baptise an alien if he asked, yet they routinely baptise, nay insist on baptising, children who are incapable of asking.
    With their parents permission....


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    #34
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    With their parents permission....
    So if the alien's Daddy says it's OK, then they'll baptise the alien?

    What gives a parent the right to decide what religion a child should and should not be? Should parents be allowed to decide when their children go to school, or when they can have their first beer, or when they can start having sex?

    Or are there just some things, such as education, sex and religion which are more important decisions than a parent's personal opinion of them?


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    #35
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    With their parents permission....

    I'll drop him a line and ask him to baptise my goldfish so.


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    #36
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Church and science intertwining is not uncommon and has worked both ways. There is a psychiatrist in the US, whose name escapes me (ill look him up so you can check him out for yourself), who acts as a consultant to the church on matters of, *cough* psychiatry and exorcisms (i kid you not). In some cases, he has given the church the go ahead from a medical perspective, to perform an exorcism on the individual under the guise of *well it can do no harm at this point*

    He regularly lectures the psychiatric community on open mindedness on the topic.
    seamus wrote:
    What gives a parent the right to decide what religion a child should and should not be? Should parents be allowed to decide when their children go to school, or when they can have their first beer, or when they can start having sex?

    Not sure if your post in tongue in cheek but assuming not, er yes the do have the right, within reason. Assuming the parents arent bonkers?!


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    #37
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    faceman wrote: »
    He regularly lectures the psychiatric community on open mindedness on the topic.

    He's lecturing the psychiatric community on exorcisms? O.o

    That should be .... interesting....


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    #38
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    dvpower wrote: »
    I'll drop him a line and ask him to baptise my goldfish so.

    All a laugh and a joke until you have to fork out later for a little underwater communion suit. The pet shop won't be the slightest bit helpful either. PM me if you need more information.


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    #39
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    seamus wrote: »
    So if the alien's Daddy says it's OK, then they'll baptise the alien?

    What gives a parent the right to decide what religion a child should and should not be? Should parents be allowed to decide when their children go to school, or when they can have their first beer, or when they can start having sex?

    Or are there just some things, such as education, sex and religion which are more important decisions than a parent's personal opinion of them?

    If the parents didn't have a right to choose on behalf of their kids, then who makes the decisions? Should their right to select where their children are educated also be taken away from them? And besides, the fact that someone is religious does not have to mean that they're averse to science or any other non-theological practice, which is demonstrated by Consolmagno.. so what's the real problem with a parent choosing to have their child baptised?


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    #40
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    My name is URL wrote: »
    If the parents didn't have a right to choose on behalf of their kids, then who makes the decisions? Should their right to select where their children are educated also be taken away from them?
    The state can make a certain amount of decisions. Parents can teach their kids all about sex from whatever age, but kids aren't legally permitted to engage until they're 17 because that reflects an age where they are possessing of the mental maturity to make (reasonably) informed and logical decisions.

    Likewise, I believe that parents can talk all they like with their kids about religion but it should not be possible for any religion to "accept" a child (by whatever means) until that child is an adult capable of deciding for themselves if this religion is appropriate for them. 16 or 17 sounds reasonable there.


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    #41
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    seamus wrote: »
    The state can make a certain amount of decisions. Parents can teach their kids all about sex from whatever age, but kids aren't legally permitted to engage until they're 17 because that reflects an age where they are possessing of the mental maturity to make (reasonably) informed and logical decisions.

    Likewise, I believe that parents can talk all they like with their kids about religion but it should not be possible for any religion to "accept" a child (by whatever means) until that child is an adult capable of deciding for themselves if this religion is appropriate for them. 16 or 17 sounds reasonable there.

    The same could be said about any other topic of learning, or involvement in any group. Kids don't need to be 16-17 before their accepted into the Scouts, and like religion, it's the parents who usually choose to include their child in the Scouts.. because they have a plan about which direction they want their kids to go in, presumably.

    Having an upbringing in which religion is included does no harm in most cases.. I was baptised etc and yet I'm an atheist now, so are the majority of people I went to school with.. so it's not as if free-will is being removed from the children.. when they reach an age to think about it rationally, they can easily walk away from the belief that was bestowed upon them by their parents if they choose to do so. The teaching of religion in schools is something I'd be against however, esp if it's focused on only one religion


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    #42
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    My name is URL wrote: »
    The same could be said about any other topic of learning, or involvement in any group. Kids don't need to be 16-17 before their accepted into the Scouts, and like religion, it's the parents who usually choose to include their child in the Scouts.. because they have a plan about which direction they want their kids to go in, presumably.

    Having an upbringing in which religion is included does no harm in most cases.. I was baptised etc and yet I'm an atheist now, so are the majority of people I went to school with.. so it's not as if free-will is being removed from the children.. when they reach an age to think about it rationally, they can easily walk away from the belief that was bestowed upon them by their parents if they choose to do so. The teaching of religion in schools is something I'd be against however, esp if it's focused on only one religion

    I can't speak for Ireland, but being German I'll have to fork out €120 in the near future for leaving that particular club my parents so thoughtfully joined me up for before I even could utter the word "no"....


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    #43
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I can't speak for Ireland, but being German I'll have to fork out €120 in the near future for leaving that particular club my parents so thoughtfully joined me up for before I even could utter the word "no"....

    Can you not just scramble your password and walk away? :p

    I haven't officially left the catholic church, but have no intention of going to mass any time soon. I don't think I'd give them the time of day by jumping through the appropriate hoops to have my name removed from their records


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    #44
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Can you not just scramble your password and walk away? :p

    I haven't officially left the catholic church, but have no intention of going to mass any time soon. I don't think I'd give them the time of day by jumping through the appropriate hoops to have my name removed from their records

    I wouldn't either, but in Germany, they enjoy the very special right of having the state collect taxes for them.
    Now, I live in Ireland at the moment, so no taxes to Germany, but apparently (as I was informed by a friend who returned back home recently), the Catholic church in Germany won't allow that as an "excuse"... so if they happen to go through their files, they already could demand a substantial sum from me, backdating.
    I figure in the long run, I'll be cheaper off paying to leave.


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    #45
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    I wonder what his viewpoint on gay aliens is?


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    #46
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Jesus already is worshiped by aliens

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #47
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Maybe Catholicism and Scientology should merge? It would be the worlds greatest pyramid scheme!


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    #48
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    seamus wrote: »
    Interesting that he'd only baptise an alien if he asked, yet they routinely baptise, nay insist on baptising, children who are incapable of asking.

    Actually they don't. The parents approach the Church, not the other way around. The rules in schools etc are a separate issue. There's nothing at all wrong with waiting until adulthood to be baptised. They won't turn you away because it wasn't done as a child. I have never come across a case in my lifetime where a priest insisted a child be baptised. It's amazing how people lose their backbone and responsibility when the Church are involved. Oh, they 'insisted and forced me into doing it'.... no they didn't you twat. Walk away if you want to.


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    #49
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    prinz wrote: »
    Actually they don't. The parents approach the Church, not the other way around. The rules in schools etc are a separate issue. There's nothing at all wrong with waiting until adulthood to be baptised. They won't turn you away because it wasn't done as a child. I have never come across a case in my lifetime where a priest insisted a child be baptised. It's amazing how people lose their backbone and responsibility when the Church are involved. Oh, they 'insisted and forced me into doing it'.... no they didn't you twat. Walk away if you want to.

    Hang on... are you telling an infant to "walk away"?


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    #50
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Hang on... are you telling an infant to "walk away"?

    I think Prinz was referring to the parents of the children.


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    #51
    Sticky_Fingers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Hang on... are you telling an infant to "walk away"?
    of course not, everyone knows you should never turn your back on a priest. Just back away slowly without making any sudden moves.


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    #52
    scientific1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science. Is this guy an example of how the two can coexist in the same world without impeding on one another?

    Talking snakes, walking on water and changing water into wine. Im pretty sure those acts violate the laws of biology, physics and chemistry. Maybe im being pedantic but I just cant see the compatability.


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    #53
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    scientific1982 wrote: »
    Talking snakes, walking on water and changing water into wine. Im pretty sure those acts violate the laws of biology, physics and chemistry. Maybe im being pedantic but I just cant see the compatability.

    Most people I know tend to drift to the "they're only metaphors" way of thinking, in order to keep sane while trying to align biblical stories and scientific observation.


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    #54
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Hang on... are you telling an infant to "walk away"?

    Yes, that's obviously exactly what I am doing :rolleyes:....
    prinz wrote: »
    Actually they don't. The parents approach the Church, not the other way around. .... Walk away if you want to.

    No one is to blame for baptising an infant but the parents/guardians who approach the priest and ask for it.


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    #55
    Pinturicchio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭Pinturicchio


    My name is URL wrote: »
    a Vatican scientist

    WTF? :confused:


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    #56
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    prinz wrote: »
    No one is to blame for baptising an infant but the parents/guardians who approach the priest and ask for it.

    Unlike the priest who called round to the house of the parents of a friend of mine after she had her child and had some concerned discussions with them on how they could get their daughter to have the kid baptised?


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    #57
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Unlike the priest who called round to the house of the parents of a friend of mine after she had her child and had some concerned discussions with them on how they could get their daughter to have the kid baptised?

    ...and what? They entertained him? Sorry, I forgot you couldn't tell him to mind his own business. :rolleyes: That sort of deferential treatment is to blame for a lot of the abuse in the past and it's upsetting to see people still indulging in it.


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    #58
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    prinz wrote: »
    ...and what? They entertained him? Sorry, I forgot you couldn't tell him to mind his own business. :rolleyes: That sort of deferential treatment is to blame for a lot of the abuse in the past and it's upsetting to see people still indulging in it.

    Sure, every single person on this planet is a totally isolated island, and cannot ever be influenced by pressure from the outside.

    How stupid of me to forget that.


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    #59
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Sure, every single person on this planet is a totally isolated island, and cannot ever be influenced by pressure from the outside. How stupid of me to forget that.

    If you don't want to baptise your infant, don't. Simples. Funnily enough I haven't heard of anyone being approached by a priest about baptism.


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    #60
    scientific1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Most people I know tend to drift to the "they're only metaphors" way of thinking, in order to keep sane while trying to align biblical stories and scientific observation.
    Well if walking on water and turning water into wine are only metaphores, what exactly was so "divine" about Jesus.


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    #61
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Pinturicchio wrote: »
    WTF? :confused:

    Yeah, they have quite a few scientists employed in the Vatican.. and many academicians are members of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.


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