Pope's Astronomer would baptise an alien

My name is URL

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/17/pope-astronomer-baptise-aliens

Aliens might have souls and could choose to be baptised if humans ever met them, a Vatican scientist said today. The official also dismissed intelligent design as "bad theology" that had been "hijacked" by American creationist fundamentalists.

Guy Consolmagno, who is one of the pope's astronomers, said he would be "delighted" if intelligent life was found among the stars. "But the odds of us finding it, of it being intelligent and us being able to communicate with it – when you add them up it's probably not a practical question."

Speaking ahead of a talk at the British Science Festival in Birmingham tomorrow, he said that the traditional definition of a soul was to have intelligence, free will, freedom to love and freedom to make decisions. "Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul." Would he baptise an alien? "Only if they asked."

Consolmagno, who became interested in science through reading science fiction, said that the Vatican was well aware of the latest goings-on in scientific research. "You'd be surprised," he said.

The Pontifical Academy of Sciences, of which Stephen Hawking is a member, keeps the senior cardinals and the pope up-to-date with the latest scientific developments. Responding to Hawking's recent comments that the laws of physics removed the need for God, Consolmagno said: "Steven Hawking is a brilliant physicist and when it comes to theology I can say he's a brilliant physicist."

Consolmagno curates the pope's meteorite collection and is a trained astronomer and planetary scientist at the Vatican's observatory. He dismissed the ideas of intelligent design – a pseudoscientific version of creationism. "The word has been hijacked by a narrow group of creationist fundamentalists in America to mean something it didn't originally mean at all. It's another form of the God of the gaps. It's bad theology in that it turns God once again into the pagan god of thunder and lightning."

Consolmagno's comments came as the pope made his own remarks about science this morning at St Mary's University College in Twickenham. Speaking to pupils, he encouraged them to look at the bigger picture, over and above the subjects they studied. "The world needs good scientists, but a scientific outlook becomes dangerously narrow if it ignores the religious or ethical dimension of life, just as religion becomes narrow if it rejects the legitimate contribution of science to our understanding of the world," he said. "We need good historians and philosophers and economists, but if the account they give of human life within their particular field is too narrowly focused, they can lead us seriously astray."

The pope's astronomer said the Vatican was keen on science and admitted that the church had got it "spectacularly wrong" over its treatment of the 17th century astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo confirmed that the Earth went around the sun – and not the other way around – and was charged with heresy in 1633. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest in Tuscany. Only in 1992 did Pope John Paul admit that the church's treatment of Galileo had been a mistake.

Consolmagno said it was a "complete coincidence" that he was speaking at the British Science Festival at the same time as the papal visit.

Quite an interesting read, and a very interesting man

So here's a guy who is a highly competent scientist, who gives many lectures to the wider astronomical community.. he represented Europe in the meetings about whether Pluto should be declassified as a planet.. but happens to be a Jesuit monk. Notice how he said that he'd baptise an alien if it asked to be baptised, and what his opinions are about "intelligent design".

I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science. Is this guy an example of how the two can coexist in the same world without impeding on one another?

krudler

The aliens would probably find our beliefs about a flying space wizard who sent his son who is also himself on a suicide mission to become the worlds first zombie mildly amusing.

Then blow up the white house.

A Primal Nut

krudler wrote: »

The aliens would probably find our beliefs about a flying space wizard who sent his son who is also himself on a suicide mission to become the worlds first zombie mildly amusing.

Yes, but only compared to their own ideas of who God is.

I didn't know every living thing was supposed to have a soul - does that include animals?

hinault

My name is URL wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/17/pope-astronomer-baptise-aliens



Quite an interesting read, and a very interesting man

So here's a guy who is a highly competent scientist, who gives many lectures to the wider astronomical community.. he represented Europe in the meetings about whether Pluto should be declassified as a planet.. but happens to be a Jesuit monk. Notice how he said that he'd baptise an alien if it asked to be baptised, and what his opinions are about "intelligent design".

I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science. Is this guy an example of how the two can coexist in the same world without impeding on one another?

I saw this man being interviewed on a programme about the Vatican on BBC 4 over the weekend.

He manages the Space Observatory at Castelgandolfo.
It is a fine building containing some pretty impressive scientific/observatory equipment.

Shenshen

My name is URL wrote: »

So here's a guy who is a highly competent scientist, who gives many lectures to the wider astronomical community.. he represented Europe in the meetings about whether Pluto should be declassified as a planet.. but happens to be a Jesuit monk. Notice how he said that he'd baptise an alien if it asked to be baptised, and what his opinions are about "intelligent design".

I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science. Is this guy an example of how the two can coexist in the same world without impeding on one another?

Is he speaking for the same church that still insists all the animals we share our own planet with are soul-less automaton?
But he will baptise aliens?

Sometimes reality is so much more surreal than any kind of piss-take ever could be....

starbelgrade

Guy Consolmagno, who is one of the pope's astronomers, said he would be "delighted" if intelligent life was found among the stars.

I'd be delighted if they found intelligent life in the Vatican.

Turtyturd

My name is URL wrote: »

I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science.

Same...always found Religion to be in direct opposition to common sense.

AnonoBoy

I would have thought that the Church would teach people to love the aliens as long as they don't live an alien lifestyle.

krudler

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I would have thought that the Church would teach people to love the aliens as long as they don't live an alien lifestyle.

Yeah you can be an alien, just dont partake in alien activity, so keep your anal probes to yourself and then god will forgive you.

Sea Sharp

I'd say the aliens would want to worship THor. He was so much cooler than Jesus.

Shenshen

Sea Sharp wrote: »

I'd say the aliens would want to worship THor. He was so much cooler than Jesus.

I think they'd go for Zeus... any fellow that can turn into a swan to shag a woman is the epitome of coolness.

Rockn

Well God created the aliens so maybe they're already Christian. They're probably already baptised. He'd hardly make up different rules for them, would He?

krudler

Rockn wrote: »

Well God created the aliens so maybe they're already Christian. They're probably already baptised. He'd hardly make up different rules for them, would He?

They're not christians yet as they wouldnt have heard of christ, but as god is all forgiving then thats ok, as long as they accept Jesus into their heart which was preplanned for them all along by gods divine plan thus negating the idea we need to believe in him at all to be saved then everything will be ok..

Unless they worship the flying spaghetti monster.

biko

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism – it's turning God into a nature god."

Good quote Guy. Tell it to the crazies.
(good except for the implied deity bit)

Myrddin

Rockn wrote: »

Well God created the aliens so maybe they're already Christian.

Which God? What aliens?

I pity poor the Buddhists, Taoists, followers of Islam, and all the other billions on the planet who are worshipping 'false Gods'. I presume they're all going to hell despite whether or not they're devoted to their own particular faith? And that's not to mention all the previous Gods of cultures long gone, Viking/Norse, Egyptian Gods, Greek Gods etc...hell must be pretty full at this stage from all the false god followers.

Christianity is one religion, out of many, many more. Going around talking about God as if he/she/it is the only one...to me that's not only contradicting a scientific take on it, but also a common sensical take on it. It's astonishing that people in a nuclear age can go around being so closed-minded...a little frightening too.

bonerm

This important social issue was handled on the tv show "V" back in the 80's. In it a Catholic priest tried to convert alien leader Diana.

He didn't last too long after that

My name is URL

starbelgrade wrote: »

I'd be delighted if they found intelligent life in the Vatican.

Well the guy in the article is hardly lacking intelligence is he? =p Or does the fact that he's religious negate what intelligence he has in other areas?

Rockn

krudler wrote: »

They're not christians yet as they wouldnt have heard of christ,

That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus. But if they were good aliens and followed the commandments that mightn't have been necessary.

EnterNow wrote: »

Which God?

The big Man. Capital-G. The One True God. You know the one.

PeterIanStaker

Considering the Vatican in its infinite wisdom only exonertated Galilieo in 1992, I think he's trying to put a veneer of sophistication on Vatican teaching so that it appears progressive. To me, in my infinite cynicism, its a publicity stunt.

Shenshen

EnterNow wrote: »

Which God? What aliens?

I pity poor the Buddhists, Taoists, followers of Islam, and all the other billions on the planet who are worshipping 'false Gods'. I presume they're all going to hell despite whether or not they're devoted to their own particular faith? And that's not to mention all the previous Gods of cultures long gone, Viking/Norse, Egyptian Gods, Greek Gods etc...hell must be pretty full at this stage from all the false god followers.

Christianity is one religion, out of many, many more. Going around talking about God as if he/she/it is the only one...to me that's not only contradicting a scientific take on it, but also a common sensical take on it. It's astonishing that people in a nuclear age can go around being so closed-minded...a little frightening too.

That has me thinking... do you think one of the reasons why the aliens haven't dropped by to say hello yet is that they're worried about all those evangelicals of all colours hanging on their doorbells at 8am on Saturday mornings if they ever found out where the aliens lived?
I know that would be quite a deterant for me....

Shenshen

Rockn wrote: »

That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus. But if they were good aliens and followed the commandments that mightn't have been necessary.

The big Man. Capital-G. The One True God. You know the one.

Vitzliputzli?

starbelgrade

My name is URL wrote: »

Well the guy in the article is hardly lacking intelligence is he? =p Or does the fact that he's religious negate what intelligence he has in other areas?

Meh. It was a throwaway comment.

My name is URL

Shenshen wrote: »

Is he speaking for the same church that still insists all the animals we share our own planet with are soul-less automaton?
But he will baptise aliens?

Sometimes reality is so much more surreal than any kind of piss-take ever could be....

I think he's speaking for himself.. which is the whole point. He said he'd baptise an alien if it wanted to be baptised.. animals don't tend to have any interest in baptism.

Galvasean

The aliens will probably demand that we worship them....

Actually, what would happen if hyper-advanced aliens posed as Jesus and faked the second coming in order to steal our precious bodily fluids!?!!? :eek:

Sticky_Fingers

I wonder would the alien atheists mock others belief by talking about the bipedal monkeyman monster in the sky

Shenshen

My name is URL wrote: »

I think he's speaking for himself.. which is the whole point. He said he'd baptise an alien if it wanted to be baptised.. animals don't tend to have any interest in baptism.

I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were him.
I remember a documentary some years ago about a chimp who had been told by his trainer that there was an invisible being (called Suzy or something) that regularly left gifts around for him. The chimp happily accepted the existence of this being he'd never seen as a reality.
So there would be scope there for the church, I should think...

sbsquarepants

Rockn wrote: »

That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus. But if they were good aliens and followed the commandments that mightn't have been necessary.

The big Man. Capital-G. The One True God. You know the one.

Oh sh1t!!!

Prof.Badass

Rockn wrote: »

That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus.

Alien jesus!

Awesome :pac:. Would he be the same person as human jesus (just in a different body), or would he be a different person?

It would be cool if all the jesii* hung out together and had their own club.

http://worldnewsvine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Jesus-was-an-alien.jpg


*yeah, i know it's not correct but i wanted to use it anyway

Hazys

This is a bit retardeded.

Wouldn't alien life disprove eveything in the bible? or would aliens just be another story in the bible that is now a 'metaphor'.

seamus

Interesting that he'd only baptise an alien if he asked, yet they routinely baptise, nay insist on baptising, children who are incapable of asking.

Shenshen

Hazys wrote: »

This is a bit retardeded.

Wouldn't alien life disprove eveything in the bible? or would aliens just be another story in the bible that is now a 'metaphor'.

It might leave some creationist high and dry, that's for sure.

tricky D

Would he let them become altar boys???

Wolfe Tone

seamus wrote: »

Interesting that he'd only baptise an alien if he asked, yet they routinely baptise, nay insist on baptising, children who are incapable of asking.

With their parents permission....

seamus

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

With their parents permission....

So if the alien's Daddy says it's OK, then they'll baptise the alien?

What gives a parent the right to decide what religion a child should and should not be? Should parents be allowed to decide when their children go to school, or when they can have their first beer, or when they can start having sex?

Or are there just some things, such as education, sex and religion which are more important decisions than a parent's personal opinion of them?

dvpower

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

With their parents permission....

I'll drop him a line and ask him to baptise my goldfish so.

faceman

Church and science intertwining is not uncommon and has worked both ways. There is a psychiatrist in the US, whose name escapes me (ill look him up so you can check him out for yourself), who acts as a consultant to the church on matters of, *cough* psychiatry and exorcisms (i kid you not). In some cases, he has given the church the go ahead from a medical perspective, to perform an exorcism on the individual under the guise of *well it can do no harm at this point*

He regularly lectures the psychiatric community on open mindedness on the topic.

seamus wrote:

What gives a parent the right to decide what religion a child should and should not be? Should parents be allowed to decide when their children go to school, or when they can have their first beer, or when they can start having sex?

Not sure if your post in tongue in cheek but assuming not, er yes the do have the right, within reason. Assuming the parents arent bonkers?!

Shenshen

faceman wrote: »

He regularly lectures the psychiatric community on open mindedness on the topic.

He's lecturing the psychiatric community on exorcisms? O.o

That should be .... interesting....

topper75

dvpower wrote: »

I'll drop him a line and ask him to baptise my goldfish so.

All a laugh and a joke until you have to fork out later for a little underwater communion suit. The pet shop won't be the slightest bit helpful either. PM me if you need more information.

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

So if the alien's Daddy says it's OK, then they'll baptise the alien?

What gives a parent the right to decide what religion a child should and should not be? Should parents be allowed to decide when their children go to school, or when they can have their first beer, or when they can start having sex?

Or are there just some things, such as education, sex and religion which are more important decisions than a parent's personal opinion of them?

If the parents didn't have a right to choose on behalf of their kids, then who makes the decisions? Should their right to select where their children are educated also be taken away from them? And besides, the fact that someone is religious does not have to mean that they're averse to science or any other non-theological practice, which is demonstrated by Consolmagno.. so what's the real problem with a parent choosing to have their child baptised?

seamus

My name is URL wrote: »

If the parents didn't have a right to choose on behalf of their kids, then who makes the decisions? Should their right to select where their children are educated also be taken away from them?

The state can make a certain amount of decisions. Parents can teach their kids all about sex from whatever age, but kids aren't legally permitted to engage until they're 17 because that reflects an age where they are possessing of the mental maturity to make (reasonably) informed and logical decisions.

Likewise, I believe that parents can talk all they like with their kids about religion but it should not be possible for any religion to "accept" a child (by whatever means) until that child is an adult capable of deciding for themselves if this religion is appropriate for them. 16 or 17 sounds reasonable there.

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

The state can make a certain amount of decisions. Parents can teach their kids all about sex from whatever age, but kids aren't legally permitted to engage until they're 17 because that reflects an age where they are possessing of the mental maturity to make (reasonably) informed and logical decisions.

Likewise, I believe that parents can talk all they like with their kids about religion but it should not be possible for any religion to "accept" a child (by whatever means) until that child is an adult capable of deciding for themselves if this religion is appropriate for them. 16 or 17 sounds reasonable there.

The same could be said about any other topic of learning, or involvement in any group. Kids don't need to be 16-17 before their accepted into the Scouts, and like religion, it's the parents who usually choose to include their child in the Scouts.. because they have a plan about which direction they want their kids to go in, presumably.

Having an upbringing in which religion is included does no harm in most cases.. I was baptised etc and yet I'm an atheist now, so are the majority of people I went to school with.. so it's not as if free-will is being removed from the children.. when they reach an age to think about it rationally, they can easily walk away from the belief that was bestowed upon them by their parents if they choose to do so. The teaching of religion in schools is something I'd be against however, esp if it's focused on only one religion

Shenshen

My name is URL wrote: »

The same could be said about any other topic of learning, or involvement in any group. Kids don't need to be 16-17 before their accepted into the Scouts, and like religion, it's the parents who usually choose to include their child in the Scouts.. because they have a plan about which direction they want their kids to go in, presumably.

Having an upbringing in which religion is included does no harm in most cases.. I was baptised etc and yet I'm an atheist now, so are the majority of people I went to school with.. so it's not as if free-will is being removed from the children.. when they reach an age to think about it rationally, they can easily walk away from the belief that was bestowed upon them by their parents if they choose to do so. The teaching of religion in schools is something I'd be against however, esp if it's focused on only one religion

I can't speak for Ireland, but being German I'll have to fork out €120 in the near future for leaving that particular club my parents so thoughtfully joined me up for before I even could utter the word "no"....

My name is URL

Shenshen wrote: »

I can't speak for Ireland, but being German I'll have to fork out €120 in the near future for leaving that particular club my parents so thoughtfully joined me up for before I even could utter the word "no"....

Can you not just scramble your password and walk away?

I haven't officially left the catholic church, but have no intention of going to mass any time soon. I don't think I'd give them the time of day by jumping through the appropriate hoops to have my name removed from their records

Shenshen

My name is URL wrote: »

Can you not just scramble your password and walk away?

I haven't officially left the catholic church, but have no intention of going to mass any time soon. I don't think I'd give them the time of day by jumping through the appropriate hoops to have my name removed from their records

I wouldn't either, but in Germany, they enjoy the very special right of having the state collect taxes for them.
Now, I live in Ireland at the moment, so no taxes to Germany, but apparently (as I was informed by a friend who returned back home recently), the Catholic church in Germany won't allow that as an "excuse"... so if they happen to go through their files, they already could demand a substantial sum from me, backdating.
I figure in the long run, I'll be cheaper off paying to leave.

starbelgrade

I wonder what his viewpoint on gay aliens is?

GLaDOS

Jesus already is worshiped by aliens

Karl Hungus

Maybe Catholicism and Scientology should merge? It would be the worlds greatest pyramid scheme!

prinz

seamus wrote: »

Interesting that he'd only baptise an alien if he asked, yet they routinely baptise, nay insist on baptising, children who are incapable of asking.

Actually they don't. The parents approach the Church, not the other way around. The rules in schools etc are a separate issue. There's nothing at all wrong with waiting until adulthood to be baptised. They won't turn you away because it wasn't done as a child. I have never come across a case in my lifetime where a priest insisted a child be baptised. It's amazing how people lose their backbone and responsibility when the Church are involved. Oh, they 'insisted and forced me into doing it'.... no they didn't you twat. Walk away if you want to.

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

Actually they don't. The parents approach the Church, not the other way around. The rules in schools etc are a separate issue. There's nothing at all wrong with waiting until adulthood to be baptised. They won't turn you away because it wasn't done as a child. I have never come across a case in my lifetime where a priest insisted a child be baptised. It's amazing how people lose their backbone and responsibility when the Church are involved. Oh, they 'insisted and forced me into doing it'.... no they didn't you twat. Walk away if you want to.

Hang on... are you telling an infant to "walk away"?

strobe

Shenshen wrote: »

Hang on... are you telling an infant to "walk away"?

I think Prinz was referring to the parents of the children.

Sticky_Fingers

Shenshen wrote: »

Hang on... are you telling an infant to "walk away"?

of course not, everyone knows you should never turn your back on a priest. Just back away slowly without making any sudden moves.