Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Pope's Astronomer would baptise an alien

Options
  • 21-09-2010 11:43am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/17/pope-astronomer-baptise-aliens
    Aliens might have souls and could choose to be baptised if humans ever met them, a Vatican scientist said today. The official also dismissed intelligent design as "bad theology" that had been "hijacked" by American creationist fundamentalists.

    Guy Consolmagno, who is one of the pope's astronomers, said he would be "delighted" if intelligent life was found among the stars. "But the odds of us finding it, of it being intelligent and us being able to communicate with it – when you add them up it's probably not a practical question."

    Speaking ahead of a talk at the British Science Festival in Birmingham tomorrow, he said that the traditional definition of a soul was to have intelligence, free will, freedom to love and freedom to make decisions. "Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul." Would he baptise an alien? "Only if they asked."

    Consolmagno, who became interested in science through reading science fiction, said that the Vatican was well aware of the latest goings-on in scientific research. "You'd be surprised," he said.

    The Pontifical Academy of Sciences, of which Stephen Hawking is a member, keeps the senior cardinals and the pope up-to-date with the latest scientific developments. Responding to Hawking's recent comments that the laws of physics removed the need for God, Consolmagno said: "Steven Hawking is a brilliant physicist and when it comes to theology I can say he's a brilliant physicist."

    Consolmagno curates the pope's meteorite collection and is a trained astronomer and planetary scientist at the Vatican's observatory. He dismissed the ideas of intelligent design – a pseudoscientific version of creationism. "The word has been hijacked by a narrow group of creationist fundamentalists in America to mean something it didn't originally mean at all. It's another form of the God of the gaps. It's bad theology in that it turns God once again into the pagan god of thunder and lightning."

    Consolmagno's comments came as the pope made his own remarks about science this morning at St Mary's University College in Twickenham. Speaking to pupils, he encouraged them to look at the bigger picture, over and above the subjects they studied. "The world needs good scientists, but a scientific outlook becomes dangerously narrow if it ignores the religious or ethical dimension of life, just as religion becomes narrow if it rejects the legitimate contribution of science to our understanding of the world," he said. "We need good historians and philosophers and economists, but if the account they give of human life within their particular field is too narrowly focused, they can lead us seriously astray."

    The pope's astronomer said the Vatican was keen on science and admitted that the church had got it "spectacularly wrong" over its treatment of the 17th century astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo confirmed that the Earth went around the sun – and not the other way around – and was charged with heresy in 1633. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest in Tuscany. Only in 1992 did Pope John Paul admit that the church's treatment of Galileo had been a mistake.

    Consolmagno said it was a "complete coincidence" that he was speaking at the British Science Festival at the same time as the papal visit.

    Quite an interesting read, and a very interesting man

    So here's a guy who is a highly competent scientist, who gives many lectures to the wider astronomical community.. he represented Europe in the meetings about whether Pluto should be declassified as a planet.. but happens to be a Jesuit monk. Notice how he said that he'd baptise an alien if it asked to be baptised, and what his opinions are about "intelligent design".

    I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science. Is this guy an example of how the two can coexist in the same world without impeding on one another?


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    The aliens would probably find our beliefs about a flying space wizard who sent his son who is also himself on a suicide mission to become the worlds first zombie mildly amusing.

    Then blow up the white house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    krudler wrote: »
    The aliens would probably find our beliefs about a flying space wizard who sent his son who is also himself on a suicide mission to become the worlds first zombie mildly amusing.

    Yes, but only compared to their own ideas of who God is.

    I didn't know every living thing was supposed to have a soul - does that include animals?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/17/pope-astronomer-baptise-aliens



    Quite an interesting read, and a very interesting man

    So here's a guy who is a highly competent scientist, who gives many lectures to the wider astronomical community.. he represented Europe in the meetings about whether Pluto should be declassified as a planet.. but happens to be a Jesuit monk. Notice how he said that he'd baptise an alien if it asked to be baptised, and what his opinions are about "intelligent design".

    I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science. Is this guy an example of how the two can coexist in the same world without impeding on one another?

    I saw this man being interviewed on a programme about the Vatican on BBC 4 over the weekend.

    He manages the Space Observatory at Castelgandolfo.
    It is a fine building containing some pretty impressive scientific/observatory equipment.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    So here's a guy who is a highly competent scientist, who gives many lectures to the wider astronomical community.. he represented Europe in the meetings about whether Pluto should be declassified as a planet.. but happens to be a Jesuit monk. Notice how he said that he'd baptise an alien if it asked to be baptised, and what his opinions are about "intelligent design".

    I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science. Is this guy an example of how the two can coexist in the same world without impeding on one another?

    Is he speaking for the same church that still insists all the animals we share our own planet with are soul-less automaton?
    But he will baptise aliens?

    Sometimes reality is so much more surreal than any kind of piss-take ever could be....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Guy Consolmagno, who is one of the pope's astronomers, said he would be "delighted" if intelligent life was found among the stars.

    I'd be delighted if they found intelligent life in the Vatican.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd



    I've always seen myself as an atheist, but have never bought into the idea that religion is in direct opposition to science.

    Same...always found Religion to be in direct opposition to common sense. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I would have thought that the Church would teach people to love the aliens as long as they don't live an alien lifestyle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    I would have thought that the Church would teach people to love the aliens as long as they don't live an alien lifestyle.

    Yeah you can be an alien, just dont partake in alien activity, so keep your anal probes to yourself and then god will forgive you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Sea Sharp


    I'd say the aliens would want to worship THor. He was so much cooler than Jesus.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Sea Sharp wrote: »
    I'd say the aliens would want to worship THor. He was so much cooler than Jesus.

    I think they'd go for Zeus... any fellow that can turn into a swan to shag a woman is the epitome of coolness.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Rockn


    Well God created the aliens so maybe they're already Christian. They're probably already baptised. He'd hardly make up different rules for them, would He?


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Rockn wrote: »
    Well God created the aliens so maybe they're already Christian. They're probably already baptised. He'd hardly make up different rules for them, would He?

    They're not christians yet as they wouldnt have heard of christ, but as god is all forgiving then thats ok, as long as they accept Jesus into their heart which was preplanned for them all along by gods divine plan thus negating the idea we need to believe in him at all to be saved then everything will be ok..

    Unless they worship the flying spaghetti monster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    "Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of the day is a kind of paganism – it's turning God into a nature god."

    Good quote Guy. Tell it to the crazies.
    (good except for the implied deity bit)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Rockn wrote: »
    Well God created the aliens so maybe they're already Christian.

    Which God? What aliens?

    I pity poor the Buddhists, Taoists, followers of Islam, and all the other billions on the planet who are worshipping 'false Gods'. I presume they're all going to hell despite whether or not they're devoted to their own particular faith? And that's not to mention all the previous Gods of cultures long gone, Viking/Norse, Egyptian Gods, Greek Gods etc...hell must be pretty full at this stage from all the false god followers.

    Christianity is one religion, out of many, many more. Going around talking about God as if he/she/it is the only one...to me that's not only contradicting a scientific take on it, but also a common sensical take on it. It's astonishing that people in a nuclear age can go around being so closed-minded...a little frightening too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    This important social issue was handled on the tv show "V" back in the 80's. In it a Catholic priest tried to convert alien leader Diana.
    He didn't last too long after that


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I'd be delighted if they found intelligent life in the Vatican.

    Well the guy in the article is hardly lacking intelligence is he? =p Or does the fact that he's religious negate what intelligence he has in other areas?


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Rockn


    krudler wrote: »
    They're not christians yet as they wouldnt have heard of christ,
    That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus. But if they were good aliens and followed the commandments that mightn't have been necessary.
    EnterNow wrote: »
    Which God?
    The big Man. Capital-G. The One True God. You know the one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Considering the Vatican in its infinite wisdom only exonertated Galilieo in 1992, I think he's trying to put a veneer of sophistication on Vatican teaching so that it appears progressive. To me, in my infinite cynicism, its a publicity stunt.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Which God? What aliens?

    I pity poor the Buddhists, Taoists, followers of Islam, and all the other billions on the planet who are worshipping 'false Gods'. I presume they're all going to hell despite whether or not they're devoted to their own particular faith? And that's not to mention all the previous Gods of cultures long gone, Viking/Norse, Egyptian Gods, Greek Gods etc...hell must be pretty full at this stage from all the false god followers.

    Christianity is one religion, out of many, many more. Going around talking about God as if he/she/it is the only one...to me that's not only contradicting a scientific take on it, but also a common sensical take on it. It's astonishing that people in a nuclear age can go around being so closed-minded...a little frightening too.

    That has me thinking... do you think one of the reasons why the aliens haven't dropped by to say hello yet is that they're worried about all those evangelicals of all colours hanging on their doorbells at 8am on Saturday mornings if they ever found out where the aliens lived?
    I know that would be quite a deterant for me....


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Rockn wrote: »
    That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus. But if they were good aliens and followed the commandments that mightn't have been necessary.

    The big Man. Capital-G. The One True God. You know the one.

    Vitzliputzli?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Well the guy in the article is hardly lacking intelligence is he? =p Or does the fact that he's religious negate what intelligence he has in other areas?

    Meh. It was a throwaway comment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Is he speaking for the same church that still insists all the animals we share our own planet with are soul-less automaton?
    But he will baptise aliens?

    Sometimes reality is so much more surreal than any kind of piss-take ever could be....

    I think he's speaking for himself.. which is the whole point. He said he'd baptise an alien if it wanted to be baptised.. animals don't tend to have any interest in baptism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    The aliens will probably demand that we worship them....

    Actually, what would happen if hyper-advanced aliens posed as Jesus and faked the second coming in order to steal our precious bodily fluids!?!!? :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    I wonder would the alien atheists mock others belief by talking about the bipedal monkeyman monster in the sky


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    I think he's speaking for himself.. which is the whole point. He said he'd baptise an alien if it wanted to be baptised.. animals don't tend to have any interest in baptism.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were him.
    I remember a documentary some years ago about a chimp who had been told by his trainer that there was an invisible being (called Suzy or something) that regularly left gifts around for him. The chimp happily accepted the existence of this being he'd never seen as a reality.
    So there would be scope there for the church, I should think...


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Rockn wrote: »
    That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus. But if they were good aliens and followed the commandments that mightn't have been necessary.

    The big Man. Capital-G. The One True God. You know the one.

    GaryGlitter_GreatestHits.jpg

    Oh sh1t!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Rockn wrote: »
    That's a good point. God could have sent them an alien Jesus.
    Alien jesus!

    Awesome :pac:. Would he be the same person as human jesus (just in a different body), or would he be a different person?

    It would be cool if all the jesii* hung out together and had their own club.

    http://worldnewsvine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Jesus-was-an-alien.jpg


    *yeah, i know it's not correct but i wanted to use it anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    This is a bit retardeded.

    Wouldn't alien life disprove eveything in the bible? or would aliens just be another story in the bible that is now a 'metaphor'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Interesting that he'd only baptise an alien if he asked, yet they routinely baptise, nay insist on baptising, children who are incapable of asking.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Hazys wrote: »
    This is a bit retardeded.

    Wouldn't alien life disprove eveything in the bible? or would aliens just be another story in the bible that is now a 'metaphor'.

    It might leave some creationist high and dry, that's for sure.


Advertisement