Keep Improving

Bez Bing

Yes I'm doing the P&D 55 MPW plan, just getting to the end of the first meso cycle.

NYC Nov 1 is my target marathon, how about you?

PDCAT

Bez Bing wrote: »

Yes I'm doing the P&D 55 MPW plan, just getting to the end of the first meso cycle.

NYC Nov 1 is my target marathon, how about you?

I'm doing Chicago in October. Using the P&D 55 MPW myself. Only doing the 12 week plan though. Have previously used the 18 week plan.
So i'm not really sure as yet, how it will go.

PDCAT

Friday 31/07/15

8.00 - 1.04.10 - Lactate Threshold

Plan was 2 mile @recovery, 4 mile @LT, 2 mile @recovery.
Knew this might be tough, due to last mile of LT being uphill.
Plan was to keep pace between 7.03 - 7.08.

2M = 9.01

4M = 7.03

2M = 8.58

Wasn't too bad, kept the pace a few seconds ahead for the first three miles as last mile is uphill.

hawkwing

The Ballynonty 10 is so much different to the big Dublin races that i also do. I was "running" @8'20 pace and was last for the first 7 miles before picking off 8-10 on the way in-i would have been at least middle of the field up here.
I enjoyed it though despite the rain-hope you did!

PDCAT

hawkwing wrote: »

The Ballynonty 10 is so much different to the big Dublin races that i also do. I was "running" @8'20 pace and was last for the first 7 miles before picking off 8-10 on the way in-i would have been at least middle of the field up here.
I enjoyed it though despite the rain-hope you did!

Yeah it's abit different alright. This was my second time running the ballynonty 10 and i noticed that too. Their seems to be a low turnout at this race every year, i'm not sure why that is. It's very cheap to enter, good course and loads of food afterwards. Don't think they advertise it much...
Seems to be a pretty high quality field with a high proportion of runners hitting fairly fast times. I started at the back of the field and i was standing beside a female runner who has won the Cork City Marathon two years running.

PDCAT

Saturday 01/08/15

5.00 - 45.08 - (9.02) Recovery

Beautiful morning out for this run. Found it difficult to keep the pace consistent, a bit all over the place.

Sunday 02/08/15

15.00 - 2.05.01 - (8.20) LSR

Ran first 7.50 miles at MP+20% (8.41 pace), and second 7.50 miles at MP+10% (7.59 pace).
I've found since i switched to P&D training plans, that this has been a key run for me and that switching pace's half way through the LSR has benefitted me. As the current training plan is only 12 weeks long, i'm going to miss completing a number of these and i'm a bit concerned at the impact that this will have on the day.
Found the run above ok. Was a bit concerned about the pace for the second half of the run, but managed to hold the pace with no real concerns.

Greenmachine

What is the aim of changing paces in your LSR? Do you have specific target paces for each half, of the run or is the aim to hit, an overall pace target? Is it geared to toward achieving negative splits come race day.
Learning more and more, every time I come in the logs.

PDCAT

Greenmachine wrote: »

What is the aim of changing paces in your LSR? Do you have specific target paces for each half, of the run or is the aim to hit, an overall pace target? Is it geared to toward achieving negative splits come race day.
Learning more and more, every time I come in the logs.

Hi Greenmachine

The first half of the LSR, i target Marathon Pace + 20%. My MP target for Chicago is 7.15 so therefore my MP+20% is somewhere between (8.40 - 8.45). The second half of the run is MP+10%, again somewhere between 7.58 - 8.03). Prior to P&D i used to run all my LSR's at the same pace throughout, probably closer to MP+20%. Since using P&D, I have found in the past two marathon's that i'm much stonger in the second half of the race than previously. I'm holding my MP pace better and performance's have improved. I know that there are other run's in P&D plan (Lactate Threshold, VO2 Max, GA's etc..). However, for some reason, i feel this run has benefited me greatly.
I've found that running MP+10% having already run a number of miles (7 -10 miles) previously, helps simulate the feeling that you get in the second half of the marathon.
I'm not sure it helps in acheving a negative split come race day. After six marathons, i still haven't ran a negative split, even though my last two marathon's using P&D, i've had a positive split of about 1 minute which is a lot closer than i was achieving previously.

Greenmachine

Brilliant explanation PDCAT. Will be a while before I incorporate any of the P&D stuff you mentioned. Just one last question for you will you build your LSR closer to the 18-22 mile range, I hear alot of people talking about re: training for marathons.

PDCAT

Greenmachine wrote: »

Brilliant explanation PDCAT. Will be a while before I incorporate any of the P&D stuff you mentioned.

I was reluctant to commence P&D training plan myself. I used Hal Hidgon Intermediate Plans 1 & 2 for most of my first few marathons.
Had ran 4 marathons before i started using P&D, mainly because i was picking up injuries in my first couple of years running. I think it's good to have a couple of marathons under your belt before you start using it.

Greenmachine

PDCAT wrote: »

I was reluctant to commence P&D training plan myself. I used Hal Hidgon Intermediate Plans 1 & 2 for most of my first few marathons.
Had ran 4 marathons before i started using P&D, mainly because i was picking up injuries in my first couple of years running. I think it's good to have a couple of marathons under your belt before you start using it.

Sound like a more advanced plan for sure. Get myself across the line first, .
The Hal Hidgon Half Marathon plan, is the one I seem to see crop of the most when I consider whether to incorporate a structured plan. Pretty much every plan assumes so many running days, and miles per weeks, so will try hit those before considering a particular plan.

PDCAT

Tuesday 04/08/15

8.00 - 1.09.05 - (8.38) General Aerobic + Strides

Legs very heavy at the start of this run, managed to work through it and they loosened out a bit as the run progressed. Threw in a few strides in the last mile. Five mile recovery planned for tonight.

PDCAT

Wednesday 05/08/15

5.00 - 44.54 - (8.59) Recovery

Got soaked to the skin tonight, probably one of the worst downpours i was ever caught out in. Ran this a little too fast, need to slow down.

PDCAT

Thursday 06/08/15

11.00 - 1.35.24 - (8.40) General Aerobic

Weather behaved itself and so did the legs. Felt ok, looking forward to this evening off. 5 mile recovery tomorrow, followed by 16 miles with 10 at MP on Sunday morning. Off then to Croker for the Hurling.

PDCAT

Saturday 08/08/15

5.00 - 45.15 - (9.02) Recovery

Nice morning for this run. Legs felt ok.

Sunday 09/08/15

16.00 - 2.07.33 - (7.58) LSR

Plan for this one was 16 mile with [EMAIL="10@MP"]10@MP[/EMAIL]. Was concerned with the 10mile at MP. Had done this as part of the Ballynonty 10 miler a couple of weeks ago and found it tough enough for the last two miles. Now, i was going to be doing it outside of a race environment on my own with some hilly sections on my route.
Went really well. In my head, i was saying just get to 6/7 miles and that would be enough. However, managed to get all 10 miles done, was delighted with this.
Off to Croker for the hurling, so had an early start for the run.
Lots of drinks on Sunday after the match...... Plan now, is no beer until after Chicago (except All Ireland Final day of course).

4.5M = 9.02 pace

10M = 7.15

1.5M = 8.56

PDCAT

Wednesday 12/08/15

5.00 - 45.46 - (9.09) Recovery

Pushed this run from Tuesday, due to prolonged hangover from Sunday and working a couple of late nights with little sleep. Beautiful morning for it.

PDCAT

Thursday 13/08/15

10.00 - 1.20.13 - Lactate Threshold

Plan was 2 mile @recovery, 5 mile @LT, 3 mile @recovery.
Plan was to keep pace between 7.03 - 7.08.

2M = 9.02

5M = 7.03

3M = 8.58

Went well, even though it was fairly warm out there. Ran the recoveries a little fast.

PDCAT

Friday 14/08/15

11.00 - 1.35.14 - (8.39) General Aerobic

Woke up absolutely zapped this morning. Found the first seven miles comfortable enough. Last few miles, legs felt tired but overall happy with it.

PDCAT

Saturday 15/08/15

5.00 - 45.35 - (9.07) Recovery

Nice morning for this run. Legs felt ok.

Sunday 16/08/15

20.07 - 2.46.06 - (8.16) LSR

A bit apprehensive about this run for a couple of reasons. Longest run since London had been 16 miles, so this was a 4 mile jump. Also my normal 20 mile pace prior to this was 8.50 minute per mile so again this was a bit of a jump for me. Normal LSR's for me using P&D would be first half MP+20%, second half at MP+10%. However, for some reason i tend to run the 20 milers at MP+15%, somewhere in the middle. Probably to do with the fact, i don't fancy running 10 miles at MP+10%.
It hasn't harmed me in the past so decided to do the same yesterday. However, there are very few of the split LSR paces' planned for this 12 week plan compared to the 18 week plan and i'm not sure the impact this may have on the day. Will consider splitting the next 20 miler into two separate pace's.
Anyway, legs were tired from the start for this run. However, held up very well and could have ran another few miles at this pace handy enough.

PDCAT

Tuesday 18/08/15

4.00 - 36.36 - (9.09) Recovery

Legs very heavy for the first mile, but loosened out and were fine after. 12 miler planned for tonight.

PDCAT

Wednesday 19/08/15

12.00 - 1.44.24 - (8.42) MLR

Beautiful evening for this run. A bit hot and sticky though with little air to cool me down. Also body a little tired from early starts and longish days in work. Managed to keep the prescribed pace comfortably though.

PDCAT

Friday 21/08/15

9.00 - 1.08.32 - Lactate Threshold

Hate LT runs and was dreading this......
Plan was 1 mile @recovery, 6 mile @LT, 2 mile @recovery.
Plan was to keep pace between 7.03 - 7.08.

1M = 9.00

6M = 7.00

2M = 8.46

Went really well. Kept average pace at 6.55 for first few miles as steep hill on the last mile would slow me down. Found it very tough and was wrecked afterwards.

Saturday 22/08/15

5.00 - 45.18 - (9.04) Recovery

Legs a little tired after previous evening's run, especially in the first mile.

Sunday 23/08/15

16.00 - 2.12.32 - (8.17) LSR

Ran first 8 miles at MP+20% (8.34), about 10 seconds per mile too fast. Second 8 miles ran at MP+10% (8.00). Legs felt the last couple of miles probably due to the LT run on Friday evening.

Monday 24/08/15

5.00 - 45.10 - (9.02) Recovery

I don't normally run on a Monday, but busy later in the week so plan to get run's in early this week if possible.

PDCAT

Tuesday 25/08/15

10.00 - VO2 Max Session

First one of these i've had to do in this Marathon Plan. Ran 2.4 mile warm up, followed by 5 X .62mile (1k) @ 5k pace with 3.30 minute jog recovery in between. Then ended with 3 mile CD. Plan was to run intervals between 6.10 - 6.16 pace.
Hadn't ran at 5k pace in about six weeks.
Went well, rained heavily the full 10 miles. Found the last one very tough as their was uphill sections to it.

2.4M = 9.08 (pace)

.62M (1k) Intervals (6.11, 6.11, 6.11, 6.15, 6.12) - Minute per mile pace

3M = 9.09

PDCAT

Wednesday 26/08/15

VO2 Max Test

No marathon training planned for today, but i signed up for a VO2 Max Test as a company was in the workplace the past few days testing for this.
It took about 15 minutes. I thought it would be handy enough and i mightn't break too much of a sweat but it was tough enough. Over the 15 minutes he moved the speed up gradually from 6kph to 15kph and the incline from 0 to 8.
He was very impressed with the results and said i was in great shape with a VO2 Max reading of 56.5 which was in the Superior range.
I'm not sure what this tells me, i'll have to do some reading into it.
The results had a range of Heart rate Zone's to train at for various levels of intensity which is handy enough to know i suppose.
Will reduce my 12 miler tomorrow to 10 miles as i'm running the Tullamore Half Marathon (at marathon pace) on Saturday as part of an 18 mile training run.

PDCAT

Wednesday 27/08/15

10.00 - 1.26.44 - (8.40) MLR

This was supposed to be a 12 miler, but due to VO2 Max Test last night, i decided to cut this short. Legs very tired particularly in the last 3/4 miles. Have an 18 miler on Saturday with [EMAIL="13@MP"]13@MP[/EMAIL]. Going to run Tullamore half as it might be easier to hit 13 @mp. However, i would have liked an extra day's rest as i think i may struggle as the legs are tired.

Greenmachine

PDCAT wrote: »

Wednesday 26/08/15

VO2 Max Test

No marathon training planned for today, but i signed up for a VO2 Max Test as a company was in the workplace the past few days testing for this.
It took about 15 minutes. I thought it would be handy enough and i mightn't break too much of a sweat but it was tough enough. Over the 15 minutes he moved the speed up gradually from 6kph to 15kph and the incline from 0 to 8.
He was very impressed with the results and said i was in great shape with a VO2 Max reading of 56.5 which was in the Superior range.
I'm not sure what this tells me, i'll have to do some reading into it.
The results had a range of Heart rate Zone's to train at for various levels of intensity which is handy enough to know i suppose.
Will reduce my 12 miler tomorrow to 10 miles as i'm running the Tullamore Half Marathon (at marathon pace) on Saturday as part of an 18 mile training run.

Wow really though you would get more information from a V02 max test. Might be thinking of some other tests. Is there a reason he stopped at 15kph. How do determine vo2 max if you are miles from lactate threshold. Pretty clueless here. Might be asking you the wrong questions.

PDCAT

Greenmachine wrote: »

Wow really though you would get more information from a V02 max test. Might be thinking of some other tests. Is there a reason he stopped at 15kph. How do determine vo2 max if you are miles from lactate threshold. Pretty clueless here. Might be asking you the wrong questions.

Got a printout about 6 pages of data, charts, graphs explaining the results. Haven't had a chance to read them yet. He stopped at 15kph because i couldn't continue any longer. Incline was at 8/9, i'd been running 18 minutes at that stage and it was up to me to call it quits.
My understanding is that you should be able to reach your 5k race pace or quicker during the test. (fair bit faster than Lactate Threshold).
The main info that i found relevant was the training HR zones for Recovery, endurance, tempo's, VO2 Max sessions.
From my limited knowledge on this, it seems that the higher your VO2 max the better.
My max HR was 185, VO2 Max = 56.5.
There were lots of other results in there as well. Will have to look further into them.

Greenmachine

PDCAT wrote: »

Got a printout about 6 pages of data, charts, graphs explaining the results. Haven't had a chance to read them yet. He stopped at 15kph because i couldn't continue any longer. Incline was at 8/9, i'd been running 18 minutes at that stage and it was up to me to call it quits.
My understanding is that you should be able to reach your 5k race pace or quicker during the test. (fair bit faster than Lactate Threshold).
The main info that i found relevant was the training HR zones for Recovery, endurance, tempo's, VO2 Max sessions.
From my limited knowledge on this, it seems that the higher your VO2 max the better.
My max HR was 185, VO2 Max = 56.5.
There were lots of other results in there as well. Will have to look further into them.

Not that familiar with slope expressed as % vs angle.

Sharkey47

Well done in Tullamore PDCAT. Your training for Chicago seems to be going very smoothly.

PDCAT

Sharkey47 wrote: »

Well done in Tullamore PDCAT. Your training for Chicago seems to be going very smoothly.

Thanks Sharkey47. I'm not sure about going smoothly. Hitting all the required paces so far in training, but was suffering yesterday in the last 5 miles and only barely hit my pace in the end.