"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

coffee_cake

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. PRESUPPOSITIONALIST (I)
(1) If reason exists then God exists.
(2) Reason exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. FIRST CAUSE ARGUMENT (I)
(1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
(2) I say the universe must have a cause.
(3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY, a.k.a. DESIGN/TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
(2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

Some of these sound familiar, anyone?

fatmammycat

And on it goes: as the old saying goes, you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.

robindch

bluewolf wrote: »

Some of these sound familiar, anyone?

PHOTOGRAPHY ARGUMENT:

(1) Cameras
(2) Therefore, Allah exists

liamw

robindch wrote: »

PHOTOGRAPHY ARGUMENT:

(1) Cameras
(2) Therefore, Allah exists

wow, so Dead One is now posting pretty pictures as evidence that Allah exists. I never thought I'd say it but he makes J.C look like a rocket scientist. Hang on, I did say that before.

Sarky

Probably best not to make comparisons like that. J C is still a liar with no understanding of science, comparing him to a rocket scientist might, in his eyes, be validating him.

Genghiz Cohen

Barrington wrote: »

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you mean.

Alright then, what about the pictures I posted.
Where is the intelligent design in Hurricanes?
Where is the intelligent design in floods?
Where is the intelligent design in areas of severe drought?
Where is the intelligent design in landslides?
Where is the intelligent design in earthquakes?
Where is the intelligent design in volcanos?

All these things are not man-made, they are natural. Which means if the universe had a creator who put us here, he is not intelligent.

God is not responsible for those.
She would never harm us!
It is obviously mans sin effecting the world and causing suffering.

Doc_Savage

dead one wrote: »

Now i ask you the same question (which you have asked) and apply it on the pic?

wait wait waaaaitttt....

your argument for the creator is...... there's no evidence of the creator?

WHAT?

robindch

Doc_Savage wrote: »

your argument for the creator is...... there's no evidence of the creator?

The most common attributes of a creator deity are (a) invisibility, (b) public silence and (c) chattiness within the privacy of one's own skull.

There is an excellent reason for these things.

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

The most common attributes of a creator deity are (a) invisibility, (b) public silence and (c) chattiness within the privacy of one's own skull.

There is an excellent reason for these things.

Go on...........

Galvasean

dead one wrote: »

You see, i love innocence... You say, you haven't seen any evidence... Let see it again, tell, what you see in this picture?

A 2 week course in photography and a Canon 7D?

robindch

Galvasean wrote: »

Go on...........

Would love to, but in the heated crucible of this weird thread, I'm sure somebody would godwin themselves replying

ed2hands

robindch wrote: »

Would love to, but in the heated crucible of this weird thread, I'm sure somebody would godwin themselves replying

..or pull that 'No true Scotsman' thingy. Eh Robindch?;)

J C

robindch wrote: »

Could be closer than you think -- creationists seem happy to resort to violence:

Creationist murders evolutionist after a row:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/scottish-backpacker-stabbed-to-death-after-creationism-row-765266.html

Creationists attack a college professor in Kansas:
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2005/12/07/mirecki

I'm sure that pointing out that murder and assault constitute "violence" is just another sign of the goose-stepping, gas-chamber-building intolerance of atheists! :rolleyes:

I condemn all violence and it is my experience that Creationists love all evolutionists ... and wish them only good things ... and especially Salvation.

It is unclear who attacked the College Professor and alcohol seems to be a factor in the manslaughter.

Sarky

J C wrote: »

I condemn all violence

Including your god's?

and it is my experience that Creationists love all evolutionists ... and wish them only good things ... and especially Salvation.

So murder and assault are "good things", are they? The creationist stabbed the other guy because he loved him?

It is unclear who attacked the College Professor and alcohol seems to be a factor in the manslaughter.

Wow. I generally expect every new post of yours to strike a new low, but this one plumbs entirely new depths. Good people don't respond to someone being stabbed to death with glib dismissal.

Galvasean

Moral of the story: Creationists are nice people, just dont let them near alcohol or they'll kill you.

Sarky

But pretty much every christian ceremony uses wine to symbolise the blood of...

dead one

Barrington wrote: »

Science.

Good answer--- Now lets see practical of this Science - You believe in magic of Camera which is science but you ignore the intelligent operator behind the camera---- Isn't it clear contradiction---
Let say it's not clear contradiction... Let see something else-- here are some more scientific points----
a. Smart designers made artificial intelligence. Thus it is testable proof that intelligence or brilliance is made by an intelligent/smart designer. The scientific treatment was invented by and relies on intelligence. Testable, uncontradicted proofs confirm that you need intelligence to make something smarter , to make artificial intelligence, or to increase knoweldge...
b. All scientific laws, rules and processes whether man-made or not, have common meanings: rules attempts physical regularity; Processes are a sequence of functions towards an end.
c. A human designer/manufacturer is basically present behind during the design / process, but is not basically detected when noticing their perfect design / process. So, one can't say an undetected Maker/Manufacture to reject a Maker.
d. It is Scientific that a Smart human being creates forces. Thus, this is scientific proof forces like gravity,magnetism, nuclear etc. are ultimately resulted by an intelligent God.
e. It is scientific that a smart human being creates,processes senses, , and stores information. Thus, this is scientific proof that any information stored,processed ,,found or in nature was ultimately result by an intelligent God

There is no proof that a Maker was not required to make natural processes, evolution or or the laws of nature, etc. Scientific proofs and predictions truly contradict athesim/materlisitc evolution.So unintelligent confidence / evolution in atheism is blind faith with no scientific reason. We should believe in intelligence evolution/confidence as it provable by science....

dead one

robindch wrote: »

PHOTOGRAPHY ARGUMENT:

Delirium

when is the evidence of god creating the universe going to be posted, jc?

J C

Sarky wrote: »

Including your god's?

God is Sovereign ... delivering justice to those who don't choose His mercy.

Sarky wrote: »

So murder and assault are "good things", are they? The creationist stabbed the other guy because he loved him?

I said that it was my experience that Creationists love Evolutionists ... of course manslaughter and assault aren't 'good things' ... and they are also against the Christian principle of loving your neighbour as yourself.

Sarky wrote: »

Wow. I generally expect every new post of yours to strike a new low, but this one plumbs entirely new depths. Good people don't respond to someone being stabbed to death with glib dismissal.

I said that I condemned all violence ... nothing glib about that,

POINTBREAK

dead one wrote: »

There is no proof that a Maker was not required to make natural processes, evolution or or the laws of nature, etc. Scientific proofs and predictions truly contradict athesim/materlisitc evolution.So unintelligent confidence / evolution in atheism is blind faith with no scientific reason. We should believe in intelligence evolution/confidence as it provable by science....

-
So logically speaking, if you can not prove that something doesn't exist, it must exist?

Penn

J C wrote: »

God is Sovereign ... delivering justice to those who don't choose His mercy.



I said that it was my experience that Creationists love Evolutionists ... of course manslaughter and assault aren't 'good things' ... and they are also against the Christian principle of loving your neighbour as yourself.



I said that I condemned all violence ... nothing glib about that,

So when someone kills another person, it's violence. When God does it, it's justice?

POINTBREAK

If everything has to have been made by an intelligent creator. The one who made God must have been having a severely bad day.

Genghiz Cohen

J C wrote: »

God is Sovereign ... delivering justice to those who don't choose His mercy.

Let's just read this 5 or 6 more times...

robindch

J C wrote: »

I said that I condemned all violence

Including violence done by people who think they're operating under instructions from the deity?

For example, the appalling Canaanite genocide?

IrishKnight

Sarky wrote: »

But pretty much every christian ceremony uses wine to symbolise the blood of...

Not the RCC, wine is transformed into the blood of christ at mass. It is not wine but BLOOD, no symbols here. If you believe it to be a symbolic then you are CoI and not RCC, just a side point.

So I see the head banging is still going on here...

Sarky

Maybe that's how it works? Normal wine makes a religious nut kill people, but transubstantiated wine makes them rape children?

I'd hardly call it head-banging myself. J C and dead one are like the court jester at this stage, only without the clever satire.

HUNK

POINTBREAK wrote: »

If everything has to have been made by an intelligent creator. The one who made God must have been having a severely bad day.

Or maybe the one, who made the one who made God was having a bad day.

J C

Barrington wrote: »

So when someone kills another person, it's violence. When God does it, it's justice?

When a person kills another person it may be many things including self defense or murder.

When God kills it is justice.

Sarky

Do you not even realise how stupid that sounds?