Kolb Vs Vick

Dohnny Jepp

I have to say Vick was so impressive against the pack. I really think he deserves his chance as starter. The fans however seem to adore Kolb, so although he deserves it Vick may not get it.

Thoughts?

mikemac

Was almost going to start this thread myself
Vick was electric last night, the Mike Vick of old
Though I did see a pass through the endzone when it seems he could have run it in himself.

Concussions are serious business in the NFL these days and rightly so. Wouldn't be a shock to see Kolb sit for Week 2.

No reason Vick can't do similar at Ford Field for Week 2.
Even if he does though it would take more for Kolb to lose the starter job I believe

Tristram

Did himself no disservice anyway. Would imagine his performance turned a few heads. Feel sorry for Kolb, hope he doesnt have to sit because of injury.

HigginsJ

Vick looked class last night and will surely feature big time for them going forward. They are unlikely to drop Kold as starter after 1 week but the pressureis very much on him now. Bit like Matt Moore in Carolina.

Peyton Manning

I dunno, I reckon a lot of that was down to the Packers preparing for Kevin Kolb. They would not have expected to face Vick even a fraction as much as he featured, and were unprepared as a result. I reckon if teams know that it's Vick they'll be up against, they'll put in place a gameplan to stop him. Obviously he's talented, so it will be interesting to see. That pass to the endzone when he could easily have rushed was a very poor decision though.

Benimar

I'd agree with Archimedes. Vick is completely different to most other QB's and the Packers would have been planning to defend a pocket passer rather than a quasi-RB.

A team expecting Vick will play with a QB 'spy' and make Vick beat them through the air, something I have never believed he can do with any consistency.

Also, if they go with Vick they essentially 'destroy' Kolb, who is their future.

Dohnny Jepp

Benimar wrote: »

I'd agree with Archimedes. Vick is completely different to most other QB's and the Packers would have been planning to defend a pocket passer rather than a quasi-RB.

A team expecting Vick will play with a QB 'spy' and make Vick beat them through the air, something I have never believed he can do with any consistency.

Also, if they go with Vick they essentially 'destroy' Kolb, who is their future.

Just because they play one or even two spy's doenst mean vick wont be able to beat them on the ground. And vick threw well, he showed he can beat them in the air.

A LB playing a Spy role, is either less coverage on the TE or less pressure on the pocket.

I can see a lot of upside to vick even if teams are planning for him.

( still hate the prick though:P)

Benimar

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Just because they play one or even two spy's doenst mean vick wont be able to beat them on the ground. And vick threw well, he showed he can beat them in the air.

A LB playing a Spy role, is either less coverage on the TE or less pressure on the pocket.

I can see a lot of upside to vick even if teams are planning for him.

( still hate the prick though:P)

I agree that, in theory, he could pass a team to victory, but I don't trust Vick to be an accurate enough passer over a full season. He did well last night, and will do so in some games, but he isn't to be relied upon to win through the air consistently. His career completion rate in the mid 50%'s is testament to that.

raven136

the thing is though,Vick looked incredible fast again last night.Really lost a lot of weight and looked really impressive.
A QB controversy in Philly,say it aint so:D

Stev_o

He was very average in the pre season though. Once a team shuts down his running lanes and forces him into passes he ll get picked off easily. He's a much nicer package off the bench to offer a different kind of threat. Incidental where were the Packers rated in run defence last year?

mikemac

I'm not sure if you already know the answer to your own question

2009 Green Bay Packers defense

Rushing 1st
Pass 5th
Overall 2nd

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

eagle eye

Stev_o wrote: »

He was very average in the pre season though. Once a team shuts down his running lanes and forces him into passes he ll get picked off easily. He's a much nicer package off the bench to offer a different kind of threat. Incidental where were the Packers rated in run defence last year?

So were the Patriots and look at them yesterday.

You can never go by the preseason when judging a player.

Syferus

I think it's a little too convenient to just count his sucess as being because the Packers defence wasn't prepared, a defense as verifiably good as their's shouldn't get caught regularly if it's just one-dimensional play no matter how they prepared. It's as likely to do with Vick genuinely being a more dynamic option at QB as it is anything else.

Given the Eagles gave Kolb a one year extension for next year and didn't commit to him long term, the starting job is something Vick does have a real shot at winning and the Eagle fans will soon forget about Kolb if Vick makes a few more impressive preformances.

As has been said, yesterday wasn't enough for a full-time switch but it does hint that a classic case of QB controversy may start to rumble in Philadelphia.

Pyjamarama

Lads i've been an Eagles fan for the last 15-16 years and tbh the idea of Vick starting instead of Kolb is laughable. Kolb has earned his chance and Vick was always overrated even before his "vacation".

He looked good against a Packers D that was not prepared for him. He made some awful throws and decisions last night. He's exciting and electric but he is not and never was a good QB.

Kolb is our future and he deserves a chance. Don't give in to the hype Vick is a backup. The one good thing is that he has some trade value and we might be able to move him before the deadline, provided we get some decent cover in... wonder what Koy Detmer is up to..?

Dohnny Jepp

Vick is far more proven than 3 game kolb. How many full games has he even played?


What Vick has done in his life is unforgivable, however on the field he has always been electric. I don't think he can be described as over-rated at all.

Pyjamarama

He's a conman! He makes some big plays but he cannot pass with any consitency. Kolbs performances in his starts last year were far superior to Vicks against the Packers! He made some AWFUL decisions yesterday.

We're not in a win now mode, we're a young team that is reloading with quality. We need Kolb to get the games he needs to see if he is the real deal. Vick is not the future. Starting him is a waste. we won't be winning the superbowl this season anyway so why start Vick? Kolb needs the game time and Vick is a showman not a QB.

Were you watching football back when he made his pro bowls with his big runs and awful QB ratings??? It showed what a joke the pro bowl was if proof was needed (which Jason Peters also proved last year, the fat waster!)

Syferus

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Lads i've been an Eagles fan for the last 15-16 years and tbh the idea of Vick starting instead of Kolb is laughable. Kolb has earned his chance and Vick was always overrated even before his "vacation".

He looked good against a Packers D that was not prepared for him. He made some awful throws and decisions last night. He's exciting and electric but he is not and never was a good QB.

Kolb is our future and he deserves a chance. Don't give in to the hype Vick is a backup. The one good thing is that he has some trade value and we might be able to move him before the deadline, provided we get some decent cover in... wonder what Koy Detmer is up to..?

Well, let's be blunt here - you're dead set against Vick so it's hard to even attempt to debate it semi-objectively.

He's a pro bowl QB who is way more proven than Kolb, who the Eagles have only very tentatively backed anyways - if Vick starts next week and puts in a good preformance this will fast become an open competition for the job.

And sorry to break it to you, but the Eagles aren't trading Vick anywhere.

Pyjamarama

Syferus wrote: »

Well, let's be blunt here - you're dead set against Vick so it's hard to even attempt to debate it semi-objectively.

He's a pro bowl QB who is way more proven than Kolb, who the Eagles have only very tentatively backed anyways - if Vick starts next week and puts in a good preformance this will fast become an open competition for the job.

And sorry to break it to you, but the Eagles aren't trading Vick anywhere!

Only tentatively backed?!?! Trading their franchise Qb for the last 10 years now counts as only tentatively backing him? Andy Reid is a huge Kevin Kolb fan, justified or not. I'm not here saying he's the next coming of Peyton Manning but he is the starter. They've invested far too much in him. Including a contract extension this summer! The same summer they attempted to find any takers for Vick.

You're saying i can't debate it, but there shouldn't be a debate. Anyone with any knowledge of how the Eagles are run will know that there is NO chance that Vick becomes starter. Andy Reid has always done things his way (much to my frustration much of the time!!) and Kolb is his guy. There won't be a QB competition in Philly this year. And people who got distracted by Vicks performance on Sunday should be more realistic.

You say he's more proven, well Marc Bulger was more proven than Sam Bradford, he was a pro bowl QB who had a decent game every once in a while, should the Rams just have stuck with him? Of course not, good franchises are always looking to the future.

Anyway Pro Bowls mean nothing, like i pointed out Jason Peterss made it last year and he's AWFUL!

eagle eye

Under Andy Reid the Eagles have been a powerhouse for a good number of years. Kolb is obviously up to the job or Donovan McNabb would never have been traded.

Michael Vick is talented but its a passing game now in the NFL and Vick is not suited to being a pocket passer. He is a very good backup to have because of his experience and the fact that you can throw wrinkles in your offense by putting him in for plays but he will never be the Eagles no.1 barring injury of course.

Syferus

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Only tentatively backed?!?! Trading their franchise Qb for the last 10 years now counts as only tentatively backing him? Andy Reid is a huge Kevin Kolb fan, justified or not. I'm not here saying he's the next coming of Peyton Manning but he is the starter. They've invested far too much in him. Including a contract extension this summer! The same summer they attempted to find any takers for Vick.

You're saying i can't debate it, but there shouldn't be a debate. Anyone with any knowledge of how the Eagles are run will know that there is NO chance that Vick becomes starter. Andy Reid has always done things his way (much to my frustration much of the time!!) and Kolb is his guy. There won't be a QB competition in Philly this year. And people who got distracted by Vicks performance on Sunday should be more realistic.

You say he's more proven, well Marc Bulger was more proven than Sam Bradford, he was a pro bowl QB who had a decent game every once in a while, should the Rams just have stuck with him? Of course not, good franchises are always looking to the future.

Anyway Pro Bowls mean nothing, like i pointed out Jason Peterss made it last year and he's AWFUL!

You're completely over-reacting..! I said it's hard for anyone to debate you on it because it's unlikely anything anyone says that positive about Vick will be met with anything besides a reason why that person is wrong - the simple fact is trying to convince you otherwise is a battle even Plato would probably lose. I'll still bite, for one more time.

The Eagles also traded McNabb to division rivals which says they think he's past his best enough that trading him in-division isn't going to bite them in the backside. Kolb only got a one year extension to his contract that was due to expire at the end of this season - they don't know if he's a franchise QB and if he can't out-muscle Vick in his performances then their caution will have been well founded.

You can't ignore the irony of the fact that Vick's presence was also a big factor in McNabb being traded - they were confident enough in him to have him be the sole back-up to an unproven starter in Kolb.

Kolb may turn out to be great, but it's luancy to think the door isn't now ajar for Vick to make a real case for being the starter at the Eagles or failing that, at another team next year.

seadnamac

Leonard Weaver and Jamaal Jackson out for the season might be more of a concern at the moment for Philly to be fair.

Vick did look good last night though...

cooker3

Archimedes wrote: »

I dunno, I reckon a lot of that was down to the Packers preparing for Kevin Kolb. They would not have expected to face Vick even a fraction as much as he featured, and were unprepared as a result. I reckon if teams know that it's Vick they'll be up against, they'll put in place a gameplan to stop him. Obviously he's talented, so it will be interesting to see. That pass to the endzone when he could easily have rushed was a very poor decision though.

Agreed and also needs to be mentioned that the Packers D was absolutely gassed in the 2nd half while Vick was coming in fresh which helped a lot.
It's 1 game, you don't drop your starting QB because of 1 bad game. Kolb is their starter, no doubt about it. The Phili fans maybe fickle but Andy Reid isn't.
Vick is a good number 2 to come in but he will never lead a team to the Superbowl.

johnmcdnl

Vick is exactly the kind of backup QB any team wants - because he's so different - He's probably the best rushing QB in the league so if you stick him on a few plays the opposition is going be stumped which is what happened against the Packers...

I haven't seen Kolb play at all yet so I can't pass judgement but if Andy Reid got rid of McNabb after 11 years and intended to use Kolb as QB that says something... Vick is a great back up but I don't think he's good enough to guide Philly to the playoffs as a starter..

and then add to the fact the Kolb will probably want out too if he's ditched which is really the last thing you want after gettin rid of McNabb and having to start to look for another starting QB

Kolb will be back by week 3 and will keep the starter spot unless he turns out to be useless altogether... And he'll probably be playing next week unless the doctors say otherwise

markdoggett25

Pyjamarama wrote: »

He makes some big plays but he cannot pass with any consitency.

Sounds like Donovan! it was very strange watching him in the redskins uniform the other night.

I agree that it is now the Kolb era. But while hes out which i think will be a couple of games, Vick is an amazing backup to have, he can open up defences. Though he is not totally suited to the Andy Reid West coast offence.

But it is his opportunity during the game(s) Kolb is out to take the job for this year. Hypothetically speaking, i mean if they were to win the next couple of games with Vick, with good completion rates it could be his.

It was so frustrating over the last few years watching McNabb be so hot and cold. We desperately need a consistent QB like a Schaub or Rodgers and i do beleive that will come with Kolb. This concussion is going to stop it before it starts with the Eagles being investigated for their handling of them recently.

tallaghtoutlaws

You want to win games and just that you will play Vick 100% of the time.

You want to win Championships you will grow a talented guy like Kolb who is a pure pocket passer and let him take the reigns by the scruff and win.

Having Vick as an option to Kolb for certain plays would be beneficial but Vick wont win you a Bowl. His passing is average at best and lets face it there is only so much scrambling Vick can do in any one game before he gets shut down or out gunned.

frostie500

NFL Network just announced that Vick will start on Sunday for the Eagles, this means he'll start in week 4 as well(cant see how they play Kolb on McNabb's return to the Linc)

Syferus

frostie500 wrote: »

NFL Network just announced that Vick will start on Sunday for the Eagles, this means he'll start in week 4 as well(cant see how they play Kolb on McNabb's return to the Linc)

I've defended Vick lately, but even I think it's at best a week-by-week situation. The Browns are another very average team and one that Vick should be able to produce another good preformance against. If that's the case Vick will be a shoe-in for the job in the McNabb Bowl (or whatever other inane name they attach to it). Don't count on either of them just yet, though!

I might have to hang onto Vick for at least another week on my fantasy team - I had him ready to dump and indeed he would have been if this hadn't been annouced before the wire claims went into effect!

I think the most telling part of this turnaround is that Reid said the decision to reverse yesterday's call that Kolb would start wasn't related to Kolb's health - no one can say Vick doesn't have a real chance to make the starting job his now.

cooker3

From what I gather, it is not a week by week thing. Reid has basically said Vick is his starting QB for the year now.

Syferus

cooker3 wrote: »

From what I gather, it is not a week by week thing. Reid has basically said Vick is his starting QB for the year now.

And who was it that he said was the starting QB in July, and indeed even yesterday? Bad preformance this weekend all bets are off. Again.

Dodge

Philly news

http://plixi.com/p/46478824

Made me laugh

raven136

its a tough situation for Reid.Kolb has looked poor in the preseason and the beginning of the game 1 but thats nothing to really judge on.But when Vick came in he looked better than he did at Atlanta,especially his passing accuracy and a lot of folks say thats down to serious work with reid and qb coach.
The philly fans being the kind they are,killed McNabb and if came in and beat them in 2 weeks then Yikes!
Whats wrong with getting a good couple of games out of Vick and sitting Kolb.Kolb has the long term big money deal and is the QB but right now doesnt Vick give them a better chance of winning?

Seems according to some reports the rest of the locker room love Vick and are delighted for him.