Wannabe Freemason is now a CT mod.

drkpower

LoLth wrote: »

no-one has ever objected to an avatar change before when that avatar was not against the rules of boards.ie so there has never been a rule in place to cover that eventuality. Now there will be.

Thats the type of defence that, when raised by a poster, is rightfully dismissed by Mods & Admins on this site; the fact that you are attempting to use it is disappointing.

WIZE

Last Question

Do we get a real Jerry Springer Reflection Moment from you as the last post before the thread is locked

RoundyMooney

RoundyMooney wrote: »

I'll make a prediction though, this thread will soon be locked-in terms of site controversies it's barely a ripple, and in a day or two it will be forgotten. It's happened before with far bigger issues than this. The biggest weapon in the arsenal of those who want to maintain the status quo here is the apathy of everyone else.

As one user among many I'd like to wipe the egg of my own face here before I go.

I'm happy to apologise for my cynicism. gg wp etc.

LoLth

drkpower wrote: »

You wouldnt consider it a breach of the site's over-riding rule of 'dont be a d!ck', no?
As for does it matter? Its not a biggie, but an admission of wrongdoing from someone who has done wrong is a good thing - and the Admins, of all people, should realise that.

And its far from a witch-hunt - i advocate no punishment, simply acceptance and accountability.

The last time a similar event occurred it was not considered in breach of "dont be a dick" it was considered fair play to treat a spamming muppet the same as he treated other users on boards (referrign to the last incident that I remember which was before I became an admin). This time, it didnt sit as well, or at all. So this is something we possibly need to add to the ehhhh dick list. At teh end of the day the site is about users. If actiosn are not liked by users and dropping them doesnt hurt the runnign of the site then it will get serious consideration and will most likely be written into the rules. I'm not giving a definite positive here only because the discussion hasnt finished so I dont know yet what shape the final decision will be.

I do see your point. I feel, and I may be overruled on this, its not an admin opinion, its just mine, that as you say, its not a biggie and would not help in the long run.

LoLth

WIZE wrote: »

Last Question

Do we get a real Jerry Springer Reflection Moment from you as the last post before the thread is locked

If you really want one I'll do my best to oblige but only if we get posters tryign to throw virtual chairs at one another and a big bodyguard poster to leg in and pull them apart.

RoundyMooney

LoLth wrote: »

...and a big bodyguard poster to leg in and pull them apart.

Smashey? Yer on!

WIZE

I have to say LoLth

I have nothing but respect for you as someone who does not need to but choose to clean up the mess made by the OP and Your team

Also pass on my respect again to TBH who seen the Error of their ways.

Bed calls

Good night all

Poccington

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sorry, but I'm not trying to paint anyone as a victim or a martyr. Changing avatars to wind up posters, making digs about their mental health etc. isn't on, regardless of their own postings.

What happened to "Attack the post, not the poster", "Don't be a dick" etc?

You may have found the avatar change ironic and amusing, it doesn't mean it's right. As long as he was a user on this site and still posting, Admins shouldn't have been messing around with his avatar in a direct attempt to wind him up further.

That kind of behaviour wouldn't be accepted from normal users and most likely not from Mods, so it shouldn't be acceptable from an Admin.

Thankfully, Lolth has been good enough to offer direct input into the thread from the Admin side of things and the issued seems to be resolved.

So all's well that ends well and all that jazz.

Pookah

Poccington wrote: »

So all's well that ends well and all that jazz.

And they all lived happily ever after.

Esel

drkpower wrote: »

Without wanting to get overly serious on this topic, watching the reaction (or more correctly, the non-action) of some the admins in this case reminds me of one of the real deficiencies in the Irish psyche. How many times in recent Irish history have we seen the following:
- someone does wrong;
- he says nothing hoping the issue would go away;
- he, or others on his behalf, make relatively transparent attempts to downplay the incident or deflect criticism elsewhere;
- the calls for accountability are portrayed as overreactions;
- noone is ever held accountable;
- noone ever mans up and admits an error was made.

When this kind of reaction is mirrored on an anonymous user-led internet forum with a relatively youthful and liberal demographic, it does not fill me with confidence for the future. Is it little wonder that we end up with political, healthcare and banking scandals from the higher echelons of society, when even people with pretty much nothing to lose (ie. Admins) cant admit their indiscretions and move on.

Health warning: No, I am not trying to compare the gravity of certain Irish historical scandals to what happened here!!! I am simply pointing to the rather unedifying parralels.

Imagine if Bertie was an Admin here, and posted his usual unintelligible waffle:

Bertie wrote:

waffle x10... I've been up every tree [directory] in Dublin [Boards], an I can tell yiz dat.... waffle x20, gobbledegook x10, non-sequitur to finish *wipes tear from eye

We'd all be stopped in our tracks, going 'Huh?'

LoLth wrote: »

yes, DemonSpawn's avatar was changed by an admin.......In any case, this is being discussed by the admins and boards staff.

I think that's all we're going to get, unless the Admin who changed the avatar decides to identify him/herself here. Tbh, I can't see how that would make much difference at this stage. Imo, the real issue that needs to be addressed, and severely addressed, is the 'mental health' one - action should be taken, and be seen to be taken, on this - regardless if people have apologised subsequently. This action could be in the form of an official Warning.

Just my 3c.

Sharpshooter

I didn't see the Avatar changes as I'm getting to this thread very late.

Were they funny as in changed in relation to answers by the OP?

As in Humour?

It would be informative to see them as I can't make a decision either way unless I can see them in context to each post.

As I said I'm getting to this thread late and it now seems to be about an Avatar change, rather than what the title states.

Rubik.

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I didn't see the Avatar changes as I'm getting to this thread very late.

Were they funny as in changed in relation to answers by the OP?

As in Humour?

Funny is in the eye of the beholder. I personally didn't find it funny at all, but obviously someone else did. Looks like we will never know who that someone was, though thats probably not that important at this stage.

Tallon

Logging into a users account to make fun of a situation no matter what type of pictures they were isn't funny

Even if it was a lolcat, it wouldn't make it right, so to see the context of what was posted is kind of irrelavant

Doctor DooM

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If I had set out to wind up another poster, I am sure that a mod could find a rule that I had broken. I might be infracted or even banned from a forum. If I then went to Help Desk to dispute the ban, claiming that I was doing it for a laugh, I would probably get short shrift.

You have confirmed that an admin changed the avatar. Has any formal action been taken to register disapproval of the admin's action?

I am not asking LoLth for the name of the admin. I note, however, that a number of people have stepped forward in the course of this discussion and apologised for the manner in which they expressed their opinions. I would be pleased if the admin who messed with the avatar were to post here to say that he or she had done it, and now accepts that it was wrong.

And if someone does something that no one has ever complained about before, that isn't in any charter, that I agree with I as a mod politely message them and ask them not to do that again.

Furthermore I do not out someone every time they've made a mistake.

Seriously, you do not want boards run by this standard.

Quazzie

Doctor DooM wrote: »

And if someone does something that no one has ever complained about before, that isn't in any charter, that I agree with I as a mod politely message them and ask them not to do that again.

Rule #1 Don't be a dick

cyberwolf77

Quazzie wrote: »

Rule #1 Don't be a dick

I hate to say it but that rule was kinda disregarded on this thread. I've read the entire thread and from what I can see it almost looked like a blanket party for the OP and anyone who tried heading it off for a fair bit of it. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong ( and probably am).

IITYWYBMAD

Doctor DooM wrote: »

And if someone does something that no one has ever complained about before, that isn't in any charter, that I agree with I as a mod politely message them and ask them not to do that again.

Furthermore I do not out someone every time they've made a mistake.

Seriously, you do not want boards run by this standard.

It's not about what's in or not in the charter on this occasion. On a number of occasions the mantra "Don't be a dick" has been trotted out. As recently as 2 months ago there was a thread here on it.

There has also been many eulogies from on high wrt how posters/mods/admins should act. Whatever about the excuse that avatars have been changed in the past for sh1ts and giggles, the fact that this appears to be a concerted effort to bully and goad a poster, who may or may not have other issues, reflects quite badly on those charged with policing this site.

If this thread is an example of acceptable behavior by some mods and some admins of how to react when a person has concerns that appear ridiculous to them, well then it's a very bad reflection on those in charge and those who put them in charge. 'After the fact' apologies aside, I believe that the acts from some mods and admins on this thread were more "dick" like than that of the op, and that's even assuming he was a troll.

I don't personally give a f**k who changed what, in fact I have my very strong suspicions, and while I'm totally against feeding the baying crowd, I think some people have been man enough to come out and hold their hand up for their behavior, maybe you should?

Bottom line for me on this thread is that if the Admins and Mods are happy for the their charges to carry on like this on thread, they can have no complaints when they are also goaded and bullied when a user is unhappy with a decision, and that's not in any charter either.

Doctor DooM

Quazzie wrote: »

Doctor DooM wrote: »

And if someone does something that no one has ever complained about before, that isn't in any charter, that I agree with I as a mod politely message them and ask them not to do that again.

Rule #1 Don't be a dick

And yet, when it was done to other people before, and it had been, no one complained then.

Was it dickheadry then? It was certainly done without permission. I'm pretty sure it was even done to trolls before in the past, and I don't recall anyone baying for anyones blood.

IITYWYBMAD

Doctor DooM wrote: »

And yet, when it was done to other people before, and it had been, no one complained then.

Was it dickheadry then? It was certainly done without permission. I'm pretty sure it was even done to trolls before in the past, and I don't recall anyone baying for anyones blood.

Context.

drkpower

Doctor DooM wrote: »

And yet, when it was done to other people before, and it had been, no one complained then.

That is fcuking pathetic; the fact that someone hasnt complained thus far does not mean that , by default, it makes it right.

It was a very common defence in the expenses scandals that have cropped up on both sides of the water, and it was a defence that was appropriately derided in that context. Its good to see that the little people have learned from the political classes on how to manage criticism.

Doctor DooM

drkpower wrote: »

That is fcuking pathetic; the fact that someone hasnt complained thus far does not mean that , by default, it makes it right.

It was a very common defence in the expenses scandals that have cropped up on both sides of the water, and it was a defence that was appropriately derided in that context. Its good to see that the little people have learned from the political classes on how to manage criticism.

Why is it pathetic?

I never said it's right. I said that it's wrong, it shouldn't happen again, but the standards which people seem to want to apply here aren't the norm applied to everyone and this would be a crappy place to be if they were.

I tell you what, every time I ask someone to knock it off in a forum I mod from now on instead of having a mature private and respectful chat I will put up a post telling everyone what they did and what a bad boy/ girl they've been. This would be a pretty miserable place to be if that were the case.

Doctor DooM

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Context.

Context which was immediately apparent to you but the thing about context is it's contextual, you do not have the same viewpoint as the person who did this. You're assuming they do. Perhaps you have more knowledge of the situation than them, perhaps less.

Once again I am not saying nothing should happen, I'm saying that the same level of respect I'd show a user I also consider should be shown to an admin.

IITYWYBMAD

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Once again I am not saying nothing should happen, I'm saying that the same level of respect I'd show a user I also consider should be shown to an admin.

and Vice-Versa, I presume?

Doctor DooM

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

and Vice-Versa, I presume?

If by that you mean would I like to see users treated with the same respect I would treat admins, then yes I would.

As I said, I think what happened here was wrong, if this is what you're getting at.

Wibbs

Doctor DooM wrote: »

And yet, when it was done to other people before, and it had been, no one complained then.

Was it dickheadry then? It was certainly done without permission. I'm pretty sure it was even done to trolls before in the past, and I don't recall anyone baying for anyones blood.

Well any time I've seen it in the past it was done in jest as an in joke. Ive had it done to me and took it entirely in that vein. I dont recall one where it was aimed at a troublesome user, though it probably happened before my time when it was a much smaller community?

I think that's the difference. We've all seen exponential growth of this place. Something mad like more posts in the first few months of this year than in the past ten. Each phase of growth has been really welcome but also brought with it changes in demographic and changes in how mechanism of Boards interacts with them. It has also brought more attention in the wider world to the site.

All you need is some random hack to walk in look around and ignore the millions of posts having a laugh, informing and building communities and concentrate on the first few pages of this thread. It would give a very wrong impression of the place and a very wrong impression of those charged with helping it run smoothly. Never mind some hack, maybe someone who just reads and lurks(which is a huge percentage of the traffic) who reads this.

All too often people and communities can be noted for the one dodgy thing and not the millions of good things. The fact that this is being discussed and looked at for the future is a good thing. As is People reviewing their posts and holding their hands up. Pain in the arse yes, but it makes for a better site down the line.

Doctor DooM

Wibbs wrote: »

Well any time I've seen it in the past it was done in jest as an in joke. Ive had it done to me and took it entirely in that vein. I dont recall one where it was aimed at a troublesome user, though it probably happened before my time when it was a much smaller community?

I think that's the difference. We've all seen exponential growth of this place. Something mad like more posts in the first few months of this year than in the past ten. Each phase of growth has been really welcome but also brought with it changes in demographic and changes in how mechanism of Boards interacts with them. It has also brought more attention in the wider world to the site.

All you need is some random hack to walk in look around and ignore the millions of posts having a laugh, informing and building communities and concentrate on the first few pages of this thread. It would give a very wrong impression of the place and a very wrong impression of those charged with helping it run smoothly. Never mind some hack, maybe someone who just reads and lurks(which is a huge percentage of the traffic) who reads this.

All too often people and communities can be noted for the one dodgy thing and not the millions of good things. The fact that this is being discussed and looked at for the future is a good thing. As is People reviewing their posts and holding their hands up. Pain in the arse yes, but it makes for a better site down the line.

Basically agree with all of this, my point is that witchhuntery above and beyond isn't going to help anyone. It'll just make this place alot colder.

Also I thought I saw it done to a troll before, and everyone just thought it was funny. Waaay back when though so I accept my memory could be wrong.

Tallon

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Also I thought I saw it done to a troll before, and everyone just thought it was funny. Waaay back when though so I accept my memory could be wrong.

I think the point is, going forward, it shouldn't be done to anyone.

Maybe as a joke among friends, but then again it raises the question of 'one rule for one person...'

The past is the past, this thread will help the site move forward without the need for a witchhuntery like you said

LoLth

Ok. Closing this thread now as the questions / feedback seems to have stopped and I really dont want this to return to users picking sides and facing off against one another.

The admins will continue to discuss the points raised in this thread, both the good , but more especially, the bad and come to a concensus on what changes need to be made and how they should be made. if the changes are to be sitewide and would affect users, most likely there will be a thread in feedforward to gather opinions and finalise it. if its just an admin policy change then thats where it will stay.

I realise that not every question has been answered to the full satisfaction or everyone but I'm pretty sure I have at least responded to each on that was directed at me and the other 'mins. If I've missed on, I apologise and please feel free to PM me with a link to the post where the question was asked. if its an answer that is any different from one I've already posted, I'll update the thread. if not, I'll respond by PM with a link ot where it has already been responded to.

thanks all,

LoLth