spectators?

declan1980

are spectators allowed at f class or ftr competitions. i'd like to do some competitive shooting next year, but i'd also like to see how things operate at a competition first

BELOWaverageIQ

Of course.

Tackleberrywho

declan1980 wrote: »

are spectators allowed at f class or ftr competitions. i'd like to do some competitive shooting next year, but i'd also like to see how things operate at a competition first

They always need lads to work the butts too so yeah.
And most FTR lads need a Gillie they have so much gear with them

Sparks

In general, the more the merrier; but if you've never gone there before, give the relevant club a phone call ahead of time so they know you're coming, as competitions can be busy times and they might not be able to show you round without a bit of a heads-up ahead of time.

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

In general, the more the merrier; but if you've never gone there before, give the relevant club a phone call ahead of time so they know you're coming, as competitions can be busy times and they might not be able to show you round without a bit of a heads-up ahead of time.

You can learn more from the butts than from the firing point.
If you ever want a tour of a FTR range PM me and i'll Org. One

Cass

In the butts:

• You learn how to score a target.

On the firing line:

• You learn about the different rifles
• You learn about the different optics
• You learn about the different types of ammo
• You learn about hold
• You learn about position
• You learn about the extra gear needed
• You learn about wind

Stay on the firing line.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

In the butts:

• You learn how to score a target.

On the firing line:

[*

]You learn about the different rifles
[*]You learn about the different optics
[*]You learn about the different types of ammo
[*]You learn about hold
[*]You learn about position
[*]You learn about the extra gear needed
[*]You learn about wind

To be good in the Butts you have to be a good shooter, to be good in the firing line you have to be good in the butts
On the Firing line you learn what others use, in the butts you see the results first hand, yiou see adjustments and can relay info back

Ezri, you are good in the Butts as you are good on the firing line.
You might not realize that;)

It wasn't me!

That is twaddle. To be good in the butts, you have to be able to pull the target quickly, mark the shot, paste over the previous shot, make any signals necessary and get the target back up as quickly as possible. To be good on the firing line you have to be a good shooter. The one has nothing to do with the other and any wild theories you have about some zen connection to the target are just that.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

That is twaddle. To be good in the butts, you have to be able to pull the target quickly, mark the shot, paste over the previous shot, make any signals necessary and get the target back up as quickly as possible. To be good on the firing line you have to be a good shooter. The one has nothing to do with the other and any wild theories you have about some zen connection to the target are just that.

maybe IWM, Zen is lost on me

A good man in the butts can read what the shooter is doing wrong and relay that info back.
The Guy in the Butts can say "you missed the target" and tell you buy how much

I've run the butts several times in the RDF, A good person in the butts can read how far a strike is off by

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

maybe IWM, Zen is lost on me

A good man in the butts can read what the shooter is doing wrong and relay that info back.
The Guy in the Butts can say "you missed the target" and tell you buy how much

The shooter can do that him/herself when you put up the target with the marker in it :rolleyes: Otherwise that's a lot of radio traffic :eek:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I've run the butts several times in the RDF, A good person in the butts can read how far a strike is off by

A badly trained chimp could run the butts in the RDF with the current standard of shooting in it :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

The shooter can do that him/herself when you put up the target with the marker in it :rolleyes: Otherwise that's a lot of radio traffic :eek:



A badly trained chimp could run the butts in the RDF with the current standard of shooting in it :rolleyes:

Maybe in the Southern brigade, West is best lol

For a novice, A novice can learn a lot in the butts
A novice can learn a lot from the firing line

Radio traffic can be reduced by code words Bunny, magpie,whitewash, not a jaysus clue, etc !

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

maybe IWM, Zen is lost on me

A good man in the butts can read what the shooter is doing wrong and relay that info back.
The Guy in the Butts can say "you missed the target" and tell you buy how much
I've run the butts several times in the RDF, A good person in the butts can read how far a strike is off by

We've got electronic targets that tell you that :rolleyes:

But they don't tell you why.

Whereas standing on the firing line will do that if you're experienced enough.

You're just trying to get somebody else to do butts duty

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

To be good in the Butts you have to be a good shooter, to be good in the firing line you have to be good in the butts

No. One has very little to do with the other. They are seperate duties.

A good man in the butts can read what the shooter is doing wrong and relay that info back.
The Guy in the Butts can say "you missed the target" and tell you buy how much

No he/they cannot. Its up to the shooter and his wind coach to see any "off" shots and adjust appropriately. Butts have no other responsiblity other than to mark the target as quickly as possible and get it back up.

I've run the butts several times in the RDF, A good person in the butts can read how far a strike is off by

Then the shooter is not shooting or learning. He is simply a trigger puller and will never be competant as a sinlge/individual shooter.


This is one of those "stop digging" moments.

Tackleberrywho

You were coaching your pops from the butts
Although i'll stop

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

You were coaching your pops from the butts

Just won't stop. Let me educate you so.

That was a Thursday, and my Father and dCorbus had rang ahead the day before and booked the windmill range to try new ammo. You cannot do this on training/competition days or the weekends as its busy.

So yes. If its 2 or 3 lads trying out new ammo then a radio from the butts to let you know where your strike was is grand, but this only requires the man in the butts to have a most basic understanding of measurment. Its up to the shooter to adjust as necessary. You cannot hold someone's hand forever. Also if the shooter cannot see the impact then his hold and follow through needs work. This is all done on an informal basis.

Although i'll stop

I'll do it for you and refrain from replying again, but you go ahead and (as Matt Cooper would say) "have the last word".

Tackleberrywho

[QUOTE=ezriMatt Cooper would say) "have the last word".[/QUOTE]

Word

dCorbus

To answer the OP's question: Yes, spectators are welcome at F Class (F-Open & F/TR) competitions - That's how I got my start - As a spectator / observer! Caught the bug and the rest is history........

Best to get in touch with the NRAI (The NGB for F-Class in Ireland) via Stephen, the NRAI Secretary, on info@nrai.ie to find out when the next F-Class Competition which you could visit will be held.

Alternatively, contact JP at MNSCI http://www.nationalshootingcentre.ie/ to find out more information as to when you might best visit an F-Class shoot.

There should be a few events and competitions on over the next 12 months which you would be able to visit, have a look-see, and take it from there, if F-Class shooting whets your appetite.

Now.........






(Rant Starts)

With regards to Tackleberrywho's posts on this subject.....where do I start.......:eek:

Major +1 on ezridax posts
Major +1 on It wasn't me! post

This is going to be tricky, I'll try to be civil, and will strenuously try to avoid getting an infraction or ban for this.........but:

Frankly, tac, you've surpassed yourself this time IMvHO
To describe your above posts as "twaddle" (as IWM has generously termed it) is an understatement of the highest order - The term I'd use would get me an instant infraction, but suffice it to say: the word I'm grappling with starts with a b, ends in an x (or possibly cks) and has ollo in the middle.

The OP asked a direct question - you then answered with some absolute nonsense.

To avoid any confusion and to rebut each of your points on this:

1. Butt duty is a responsible role - the shooters rely on the markers to work efficiently, correctly, and accurately to allow the shooting to proceed. To advise a total novice to concentrate on the butts is f*in' nonsense - The butts are not a place to watch and learn and ask questions - You're down there to do a job. Nothing else!
2. Marking targets (ie the job you're down in the butts to do) will not improve your shooting. If you're doing your job correctly, you won't have time to be commenting, analysing, and all the rest of the sh1te you seem to think that butt duty is for.
3. Don't know about the pdf or the rdf, but the OP was asking about F-Class - You been down the butts for that lately, my friend?
4. "A good man in the butts can read what the shooter is doing wrong and relay that info back" - WTF, again showing your ignorance - In a competition, no communication regarding spotting or calling shots is allowed from the butts back to the firing line. Apart from the fact, that as IWM notes, stick in the f'in marker where you're supposed to, and the shooter won't need you to be clogging up the airwaves.
5. "The Guy in the Butts can say "you missed the target" and tell you buy how much" - As at Item 4. above - but, WTF tac, if you need a man in the butts to radio you to tell you if you missed, that's a bit of a problem - That's what all the pretty bright coloured markers and paddles are for (Or did you think they were just for decoration or some sort of shooting sports "make-and-do"?)
6. You cannot read the wind from the butts (at least i can't, but maybe your psychic and x-ray vision powers are greater than mine) - So how are you going to call the shot and advise the shooter from the butts, if you cannot read what the wind was / is doing?
7. "yiou see adjustments and can relay info back" - Relay info back? Eh? Can you? Wow, now that would be handy! See above - Relaying info back in a competition is most definitely not allowed - In fact it's called cheating. In an individual informal practice session, yes it's useful. Mr. Ezridax and mygoodself have on occasion teamed up for such activities - But the OP is asking about competitions and events, and none of what you have "advised" is applicable or permissable in either formal F-Class training or Competition.

most FTR lads need a Gillie they have so much gear with them

Do they now? Some do, some don't - You sure you're not mixing up your F-Open and your F/TR? Range bag, mat, and rifle (in bag) is all that is needed for F/TR. No ghillies required, so please don't be "advising" lads about something you have little or no understanding about. Giving out the wrong impression and incorrect opinions to those who may be interested in actually shooting F-Class (rather than those who just talk / post about it:p), does the sport no favours and you should, at this stage, know better than to be putting lads off, with this nonsense talk about ghillies.

If you ever want a tour of a FTR range PM me and i'll Org. One

To the OP - I'd suggest you contact the MNSCI or the NRAI directly to find out when you'd best be able to visit. And they may be able to put you in touch with those actually shooting either F-Open and F/TR.

To Tackleberrywho - I'd suggest you grow a pair and maybe join the firing line, rather than hiding in the butts!:D:D;)

Why, oh why, oh why, do you insist on clogging up bandwidth with ill-informed and frankly misleading so-called "information" and "advice"? If you don't know what you're talking about, it's sometimes advisable to stay schtumm. And on this one - you've really come up with some doozies: FFS you learn more in the butts than on the firing line? Come now - Even you cannot actually believe that?

(Rant Ends)

But back to the OP: Hope you do make it to one of the F-Class shoots to see what it's all about. As sparks posted: the more the merrier IMO.

declan1980

thanks for all the info lads. i'll be sure to try and get down to a shoot some weekend soon. but it will all depend on work, as i work some weekends. i've been caught for the last 3 in a row, so i'm due a weekend off shortly

Tackleberrywho

to dC
I may Join FTR, however at the moment I can not afford it.
I'm 1st and foremost a hunter, I do appreciate precesion in terms of accuracy. And the skills used in varminting can be practiced on the 600/800.

You won't get a ban over me dC don't worry
Most of the "novices" I train to shoot have never fired a rifle before. Also the rifles they fire are not zero'd as they are hopped around and taken apart and cleaned after shooting. Fully stripped**

I bow to your superior experience @ FTR and to Ezridax's experience @FTR
my two rifles cost less than your TRG.
Although Ezri seems to be able to whoop ass with his Savage
So maybe I'll come out of the "butts" and get down on the line. However I need a major cash injection first.

I know you to be a nice guy so I will take your points on merit and not get snotty with you.

I had already stopped Digging several posts ago:o

declan1980

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I may Join FTR, however at the moment I can not afford it.

does it cost much to get into FTR?

dCorbus

Tac, I'm not getting into a slagging match with you on this one.
But take the advice, and stop digging!:D;)

my two rifles cost less than your TRG

I wouldn't be too sure about that!;)

The cost of the rifle is somewhat irrelevant when starting F/TR - A custom rifle is not needed: Just a good quality out of the box factory rifle. That's F/TR - FOpen is a slightly different story entirely.

I know you to be a nice guy so I will take your points on merit and not get snotty with you

TY;):D

Ezri seems to be able to whoop ass with his Savage

He can indeed - but then again, I'd say that's more down to the shooter than the rifle TBH! Although the new "tweaks" (:p) he's making should give him that extra edge (not that he needs it!;))

So maybe I'll come out of the "butts" and get down on the line.

Do! The more the merrier, as we've been saying!

Don't forget I'm talking about F/TR - not F-Open - F/TR is far less of an "arms-race" than you'd think. First and foremost, you need to practice your shooting, then practice it some more, then a bit more......and then some more.

IMO it's rare that a lad's skill is exceeding the capabilities of his rifle, it's usually the other way around!

Regardless of rumours and fallacies abounding, this F/TR is not that much of a money pit! Yes, the ammo costs needed to get in sufficient trigger time does make a dint in the old bank balance - but you'd have that for any competitive shooting sport if one takes into account all the equipment and consumable costs.

As I keep telling myself, it's still cheaper than golf - and a f-load more fun!

dCorbus

does it cost much to get into FTR?

Well, assuming you already have your range membership, insurance, etc., you need:

a) Decent Rifle in .223 or .308 (Although .308 seems to be the norm), so say a Tikka T3, Remmy700, a Savage F/TR, etc. to start with - What's that? About €1500
b) Decent Scope - NXS, Leupold, S&B etc. - say €1500 for pigiron
c) Bipod - Harris will be more than adequate to get a good start - €100 say

So, how is that so far: €3100

But, bearing in mind, if you have a half decent .308 already (preferably a varmint or bull barrel - not a hunting / stalking light barrel) - with a reasonably good scope - you could make a start in the morning!

Of course, the sky is indeed the limit! (Unfortunately )

Ammunition costs? Hmmmm....depends on how much trigger time and practice you want to get in, but good target rounds like the HPS 155gr .308 cost in and around €50 - 55 per 50.

A competition in F/TR is generally 2 sighters + 15 shots to score.
Practice is up to yourself.

But, let ezridax give you a good run-down on the costs! He's a mine of information, is that lad!:D

Cass

A quick run down of my setup, all of which is "out of the box" stuff.

• Rifle - Savage F/TR - .308 cal -€1600
• Scope - Nightforce - 8-32x56 - €1500
• Mounts - Nightforce - 30mm rings (High) & NF 20moa rail - €260
• Bipod - Sinclair - €129
• Rear bag - Caldwell with solid base - €40
• Cleaning gear - Rod, Mops, patches, jag, oils, barrel cleansers, etc - €150
• Shooting Mat - Sinclair mat - €100
• Ammo - Starting amount - HPS 155gr - €200 (200 bullets)

These are all new prices. So for everything you need to get started and shooting - €3,979. The price can be reduced depending on scope choice, mount choice, etc. Of course there is always the option of buying the entire setup second hand, which can be got and at a nice price too.

A word of advice. While a hunting style rifle MAY suit for some distances it is not a target rifle and will not stand up to the task asked of it at the longer distances. Also while i started with a TRG and Sauer 6.5 both of which had 26" barrels and are well capable of shooting the necessary distances you may find yourself working harder to achieve the same results as lads with 30" barrels. Try go for a rifle with a 30" barrel, heavy profile from the start.


It is definitely worth coming for a look some day. If nothing else to get a feel of the sport. Who knows might see you on the firing line or be shooting against you in a few months.



PS -

dCorbus wrote:

He's a mine of information, is that lad!

- Yeah, right

Tackleberrywho

dC

if I want to go FTR I need ANOTHER rifle, Another scope and i can't afford that at the mo.
I'm expecting a huge motor Tax bill if Gormless has his way so I have to batten down the hatches.

If I go FTR I will need another rifle, I have a nice light stalking rifle in .308
It does the bizz currently running on HPS

i discovered long ago that one rifle would not be a dual purpose rifle.
I know some "Rambo types" bring TRG's and AI's out stalking.
However I am an average joe who likes a light rifle.

If I go FTR or F open I will go full custom to suit my needs.

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

if I want to go FTR I need ANOTHER rifle, Another scope and i can't afford that at the mo.

Fair enough.

I'm expecting a huge motor Tax bill if Gormless has his way so I have to batten down the hatches.

Tangible, but not very relevant.

......I have a nice light stalking rifle in .308
It does the bizz currently running on HPS

Irrelevant

I know some "Rambo types" bring TRG's and AI's out stalking.

Irrelevant

However I am an average joe who likes a light rifle.

Irrelevant

If I go FTR or F open I will go full custom to suit my needs.

First you say you are not in a position to afford a new rifle for F/TR then you say if you do decide to start shooting F/TR you will go full custom. . The expensive route and for a newbie to the sport........ . How do you know your needs when you have never shot it. A full custom build is an option if and when you shoot the sport and decide that you like it and want to further your own ability.

I would advise against any newcomer going the full custom route until they try the sport. It can end up being an expensive lesson if they decide they do not want to continue to shoot in it.

I am not advocating buying only the items i listed above, (you can make up your own mind on the rifle you want) but i will make reference to it again simply as an example of how cheaply you can get into the sport and still maintain a high standard of scoring. Any similar setup will do.


Look Tack, i'm trying not to be an ass here. I'm trying to remain polite and mannerly, but you are advising this lad on matters you have no experience of and worse again the advice you are giving is of poor to silly quality. You compound this with mentions of facts that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP's question as well as your refusal to cede the debate/point(s).

virminhunter

great thread lads, I've been pondering(like declan1980) having a go at this in the future, theres great info been givin here, credit to yee...

dCorbus

For any lads pondering getting started in F/TR, I cannot recommend it highly enough. It's a real challenge and a test of shooting ability (markmanship, wind- & condition-reading, etc) and when it works, the feeling of having "nailed it" (at least for that day) is great.

The day you get your first V-Bull at 800 and 900yd, is a very nice day indeed!:) Then the trick is to keep getting them! :eek: (But that's another day's work:o).

To get a very good start in F/TR, there is, in IMvHO, absolutely no need for a custom rifle (despite some opinions to the contrary). Custom work may be a requirement in the future for any shooter starting off in F/TR, but certainly is not required for getting started. In fact, depending on ones own shooting skills and wind reading abilities, only a "minimal" :rolleyes: amount of custom work would be required.

To put it in context, I've been shooting F/TR myself for the last 9 months: week-in week-out, averaging about 2 days per week on the range (either at 300yd to "keep my eye in" or out at 600 - 900yds for some real F/TR range practice), putting about 1700 rounds downrange over that time (TBbrutallyH, I'm pretty much playing a major game of catch-up with the rest of the lads on the F/TR squad, so my amount of trigger time reflects my newbie status - and frankly I should be out everyday practicing, but that's just not an option at the moment) - Taking all that into consideration, I am only this week putting plans into action for some custom improvements/tweaks to my second-hand factory-standard rifle which I've been shooting since last January. My humble advice to anyone wanting to start out in F/TR is to go with a good quality factory rifle, one designed for reasonably long-distance target work, and then work up from there. No need to go off and get a full custom build day-one.

I've no ulterior motive or vested interest, other than that I know ezri and his father and know the provenance and pedigree of the rifle in question, but if you are interested in getting a start in F/TR, you could do no better than buying this Savage 12 Palma .308 for sale here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056030699.

This particular rifle and set-up will more than start you off in F/TR, and TBH once bought, I'd doubt that any custom work would be required at all, other than tweaks to suit your own personal shooting style and tastes.

I have to reiterate that I have absolutely no vested interest in the sale of this rifle, other than knowing where it's coming from and the genuine reluctance of this sale and the genuine desire of the current owner that the rifle finds a good home. (@ Ezridax: PM me if you think I'm over egging this or if you want me to feck off and mind my own business!:)) - But I genuinely believe that any lad seriously planning to shoot F/TR could do far worse than jumping at this deal.

Either way (and regardless of whether or not anyone here decides to buy it or not), that spec of factory-standard rifle, kit, and set-up is an extremely good example of the type of set-up needed for F/TR, give or take tweaks and adjustments to cater for personal tastes etc., so as a reference point it's very pertinent in showing the type of kit and set-up which will stand you in good stead on an F/TR firing line.

@ virminhunter, declan1980, et al.: Hope to see you on the range some time and really do hope you come along to one of the F/TR shoots to get a taste of what is required. As I mentioned before, contact either the NRAI or Midlands to find out when you could pop along for a look-see.

dwighet

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

dC

if I want to go FTR I need ANOTHER rifle, Another scope and i can't afford that at the mo.
I'm expecting a huge motor Tax bill if Gormless has his way so I have to batten down the hatches.

If I go FTR I will need another rifle, I have a nice light stalking rifle in .308
It does the bizz currently running on HPS

i discovered long ago that one rifle would not be a dual purpose rifle.
I know some "Rambo types" bring TRG's and AI's out stalking.
However I am an average joe who likes a light rifle.

If I go FTR or F open I will go full custom to suit my needs.

bla bla bla.......bla bla bla bla bla...bla bla......

dCorbus

PMSL:D
Now, now, dwighty, play nice!:rolleyes::D

dwighet

dCorbus wrote: »

PMSL:D
Now, now, dwighty, play nice!:rolleyes::D

Yeah I know but what he wrote had nothing to do with what the thread is about...Im quite sure he was just talking to himself out aload....
I had to read it 3 times and it still had no meaning what so ever...

Keep up the good work Tack;)

dCorbus

Im quite sure he was just talking to himself out aload

Ahh, bless.
Oh, don't we all know it.....but god loves a tryer!;):D



(Sorry tack, i couldn't resist! Must.....try.....harder......)

Rovi

Now now lads, let's play nice...

dwighet

Rovi wrote: »

Now now lads, let's play nice...

OK...
Sorry Tack.....

Galway Elvis

Greetings all. After spending the last 2 weeks trying to absorb any info I can for the sport of Point/Squeeze/Bang from the 52 pages of threads on target shooting I need to start with questions somewhere.

I have been to the midlands shooting range five times with my .22 Browning just to get a start on the long and expensive road of target shooting. I have recently upgraded to a Remington 700 SPS Varment .223 cal with a decent scope and Harris bi-pod.

Due to austerity measures imposed on me by a financial institution and my wife, membership of the above fine facility will have to wait until next year.

Question 1; can I shoot there with my .223 without being a member?
Question 2; Where can I get reading material to for a beginer to start understanding the language, classes and rules for target shooting with a rifle?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sparks

Okay, I think that's enough slagging for one thread lads, could we answer GE's question maybe?

Tackleberrywho

Due to austerity measures imposed on me by a financial institution and my wife, membership of the above fine facility will have to wait until next year.

Question 1; can I shoot there with my .223 without being a member? yes, if a member signs you in (vouches for you) you provide proof of licence and insurance
Question 2; Where can I get reading material to for a beginer to start understanding the language, classes and rules for target shooting with a rifle?
There are a number of courses available. Contact JP for details.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]
For language, well you'll pick some up as you go along, best way is to go along and someone there will help you out if you ask

rrpc

Because Tackleberrywho's post was so disjointed and misquoted, I'll endeavour to fix it for the OP to save him (or anyone else) doing the head-scratching I did

Galway Elvis wrote: »

Due to austerity measures imposed on me by a financial institution and my wife, membership of the above fine facility will have to wait until next year.

Question 1; can I shoot there with my .223 without being a member?

Tack: yes, if a member signs you in (vouches for you) you provide proof of licence and insurance

Galway Elvis wrote:

Question 2; Where can I get reading material to for a beginer to start understanding the language, classes and rules for target shooting with a rifle?

Tack: There are a number of courses available. Contact JP for details.

---

This bit is all by me

For Tack: quoting another post puts QUOTE in square brackets at the beginning of the quote and /QUOTE in square brackets at the end. You can also add =postername after the first QUOTE to give the quote a heading of "originally posted by postername"

It's not terribly difficult, but when you make a mess of it, it's incredibly difficult to follow who said what