Advice for buying a used .223 or similar

noodle650

I have decided that as xmas comes around im going to go for a .223 or something along that line, ammo price is the main influence in this, i was thinking cz 527 or remmy 700.

would you be able to give me some advice and pointers as to what to go for and look for as i understand its quite different to buying used rimfire?

Gun would have to be light, as it would be used for large vermin.
eg: Fox

I would be going for lightly used s/h.


Any input much appreciated.
Best,

Noods

virminhunter

personally if I wanted a light "out of the box accurate" .223 I'd go for a tikka t3 lite which has a free floating barrel and an adjustable trigger between 2 and 4 pounds of pull, or a cz527, if you buy something like a bog standard remy 700 sps your going to have to buy after market parts to make it as accurate as the tikka like a jewel trigger and a decent stock...

noodle650

so t3 lite or a cz 527.

I would personally go with the cz as ive shot one before and i own a cz already and tihnk they are great guns

virminhunter

the tikka has a great action it feeds centrefire rounds very smoothly, theres a big difference in the feed in a cz 452.22lr and a cz527, I was in a mess last night trying to cock my cz527 for a second shot on a fox the bolt tends to slide over the top round in the magazine.

Hang on though theres plenty of lads around here that'll give you more advice...:)

noodle650

virminhunter wrote: »

the tikka has a great action it feeds centrefire rounds very smoothly, theres a big difference in the feed in a cz 452.22lr and a cz527, I was in a mess last night trying to cock my cz527 for a second shot on a fox the bolt tends to slide over the top round in the magazine.

Hang on though theres plenty of lads around here that'll give you more advice...:)

thanks mate

jap gt

theres a very clean cz in the for sale section

Tackleberrywho

Remmington VSSF II, except no imitations to a true Varminter:D

It wasn't me!

Yes, but the man wants a light gun. I reckon the CZ 527 American is a good bet here. Weight is nice in it, and it's a meatier feeling gun than the Tikka (I find the Tikkas very short and very light, and I'm no giant at six foot). The Tikka is a bit more polished, but as a field gun, I'd be plenty happy with the CZ myself.

noodle650

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yes, but the man wants a light gun. I reckon the CZ 527 American is a good bet here. Weight is nice in it, and it's a meatier feeling gun than the Tikka (I find the Tikkas very short and very light, and I'm no giant at six foot). The Tikka is a bit more polished, but as a field gun, I'd be plenty happy with the CZ myself.

right im 6'2"
recoil isnt a problem, i found the cz fitted nicely, so did my mates remmy 700. i do like the CZ's though

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yes, but the man wants a light gun. I reckon the CZ 527 American is a good bet here. Weight is nice in it, and it's a meatier feeling gun than the Tikka (I find the Tikkas very short and very light, and I'm no giant at six foot). The Tikka is a bit more polished, but as a field gun, I'd be plenty happy with the CZ myself.

Light Sako Finfire then so.
Or Anschutz

I'd prefer an accurate rifle

It wasn't me!

noodle650 wrote: »

right im 6'2"
recoil isnt a problem, i found the cz fitted nicely, so did my mates remmy 700. i do like the CZ's though

I reckon you'd probably find the Tikka quite short so. I found any time I swung one up to the shoulder, it came up and had to be pulled straight into me. My Sako 75 swings straight up into the shoulder pocket and sits there. I reckon the CZ is the better bet for you. The stock is better proportioned and the weight is nicer.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Light Sako Finfire then so.
Or Anschutz

I'd prefer an accurate rifle

Now you're suggesting rimfires? What sense does that make? Nothing wrong with the CZ's accuracy. You don't need a long, heavy barrel to make a gun accurate.

meathstevie

If you don't want to spend a ball of money and want a decent rifle you couldn't go too far wrong with a decent CZ.

If the bolt slides over the top round in the magazine could it be that there's something wrong with the magazine spring ?

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I reckon you'd probably find the Tikka quite short so. I found any time I swung one up to the shoulder, it came up and had to be pulled straight into me. My Sako 75 swings straight up into the shoulder pocket and sits there. I reckon the CZ is the better bet for you. The stock is better proportioned and the weight is nicer.



Now you're suggesting rimfires? What sense does that make? Nothing wrong with the CZ's accuracy. You don't need a long, heavy barrel to make a gun accurate.

My apologies i mean a sako centre and the Sako 85 Fin-light is not chambered in .223 oops

an Anschutz centre .223 not a rimfire also.
Although if the OP would like a modular rifle Remington in various configurations are the way to go.

Just one example
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-varmint-sf.aspx

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

My apologies i mean a sako centre and the Sako 85 Fin-light is not chambered in .223 oops

an Anschutz centre .223 not a rimfire also.
Although if the OP would like a modular rifle Remington in various configurations are the way to go.

Just one example
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-varmint-sf.aspx

I don't think you understand the term modular in relation to rifles. Sauer 202, Mauser M03, Blaser R93/R8, RWS Titan; those are modular rifles. The Remington is not. You just mean there are lots of parts to upgrade it. That's not the same thing.

virminhunter

meathstevie wrote: »

If you don't want to spend a ball of money and want a decent rifle you couldn't go too far wrong with a decent CZ.

If the bolt slides over the top round in the magazine could it be that there's something wrong with the magazine spring ?

It was me that said that stevie not the op, its not the spring, I have to push up on the bolt when loading to get the bolt to "catch" the round, I think if I bend out the lips at the top of the magazine it might allow the round to go up a bit more so the bolt will catch it, I'll have to see...

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I don't think you understand the term modular in relation to rifles. Sauer 202, Mauser M03, Blaser R93/R8, RWS Titan; those are modular rifles. The Remington is not. You just mean there are lots of parts to upgrade it. That's not the same thing.

I do understand modular IWM, you can strip a Remmy in a few seconds, and end up with an action, Kriger barrel, mcmillian stock Timney trigger and serious groups.

All in modules, Module 1, buy rife, Module 2 buy trigger, module 3 buy barrel, modul 4 buy stock, modul 5 bed the barrel stock and attach to new action.

Modularity is a general systems concept, typically defined as a continuum describing the degree to which a system’s components may be separated and recombined.

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I do understand modular IWM, you can strip a Remmy in a few seconds, and end up with an action, Kriger barrel, mcmillian stock Timney trigger and serious groups.

All in modules, Module 1, buy rife, Module 2 buy trigger, module 3 buy barrel, modul 4 buy stock, modul 5 bed the barrel stock and attach to new action.

Modularity is a general systems concept, typically defined as a continuum describing the degree to which a system’s components may be separated and recombined.

So you can, for example, quickly remove the barrel on a Remington with a hex key, clamp in and index a barrel of a different calibre or profile, change to a more suitable stock for the new decided application, remove the bolt head and slip on the other one because you've gone from a standard to a magnum boltface, drop your QD mounts for the new scope you've chosen to use with the new setup into their slots and clip them in, holding zero from the last time you used it together, all under a minute, and with the capability to change it all back just as quickly and easily? That's a modular rifle system. The Remington cannot do that. Therefore it is not a modular rifle system. You can do anything to my Sako you can do to a Remington; it's still not a modular system in the generally accepted sense.

meathstevie

It wasn't me! wrote: »

So you can, for example, quickly remove the barrel on a Remington with a hex key, clamp in and index a barrel of a different calibre or profile, change to a more suitable stock for the new decided application, remove the bolt head and slip on the other one because you've gone from a standard to a magnum boltface, drop your QD mounts for the new scope you've chosen to use with the new setup into their slots and clip them in, holding zero from the last time you used it together, all under a minute, and with the capability to change it all back just as quickly and easily? That's a modular rifle system. The Remington cannot do that. Therefore it is not a modular rifle system. You can do anything to my Sako you can do to a Remington; it's still not a modular system in the generally accepted sense.

Would you be referring to an assault rifle sort of job with a trigger mechanism and handgrip, barrel, bolt and boltcarrier, stock and front grip all being held together by 3 or 4 pins allowing you to take the whole lot apart and put back together in no time at all ?

It wasn't me!

meathstevie wrote: »

Would you be referring to an assault rifle sort of job with a trigger mechanism and handgrip, barrel, bolt and boltcarrier, stock and front grip all being held together by 3 or 4 pins allowing you to take the whole lot apart and put back together in no time at all ?

While they tend to be similarly modular, I was talking about a rifle like the Mauser M03 as a proper modular rifle build.

ormondprop

http://gunmart.net/video/mauser_m_03_trail/

watch this and you'll see what he means, seems like a great system,

Feidhlim Dignan

virminhunter wrote: »

It was me that said that stevie not the op, its not the spring, I have to push up on the bolt when loading to get the bolt to "catch" the round, I think if I bend out the lips at the top of the magazine it might allow the round to go up a bit more so the bolt will catch it, I'll have to see...

i think there is a problem with you particular gun virminhunter , i have a CZ527 and i feeds every time no prob.

also tack hes looking for a secondhand cheap gun so a sako or anchutz wont fit the bill, i wouldn't over look the howa or ruger there both good guns.

noodle you free this evening for a few bunnys, and maybe a shine with the lamp and .223:)

noodle650

ill call in a min

Tackleberrywho

Feidhlim Dignan wrote: »

i think there is a problem with you particular gun virminhunter , i have a CZ527 and i feeds every time no prob.

also tack hes looking for a secondhand cheap gun so a sako or anchutz wont fit the bill, i wouldn't over look the howa or ruger there both good guns.

noodle you free this evening for a few bunnys, and maybe a shine with the lamp and .223:)

Buy a Remington SPS S/H

Upgrade to the pocket.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaay more options for aftermarket than any other make or model **except AR**

I know 2 fellas that bough Remington's just for their actions! Scrapped stock barrel and trigger!!

patsat

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055954092

I have this for sale if it is of interest to you! Perfect light gun for foxing.

And I'll throw in a generous amount of venison for yourself and Dignan if it tickles yer fancy!:D

johngalway

Guys, I'd appreciate it if you all would get back on to the topic of this thread. A member is looking for help in choosing a second hand centrefire rifle for himself and would like some good advice to avoid pitfalls.

The off topic stuff isn't needed. It should be started in a new thread, not used to derail this one.

johngalway

I'm always told the CZ's have very good barrels, though I don't like the look of them myself.

The nicest light gun that I've handled has had to be a Tikka T3 Hunter with a wooden stock, it'd be a doddle to carry something of that weight around after foxes.

I've never bought second hand. But, just off the top of my head I'd take a real close look at the rifle to see how well, or badly the previous owner has cared for it. I'd be tolerant of light scratch marks to the stock, but rust on metal I wouldn't like one bit. If it's a private buy, maybe see if the owner is willing to fire a few shots to see how well the gun shoots. Have a look down the bore towards something bright, see if you can pick out anything in the bore which shouldn't be there, pitting etc. Check the crown very carefully for pitting, dings, or other damage.

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

I'm always told the CZ's have very good barrels, though I don't like the look of them myself.

The nicest light gun that I've handled has had to be a Tikka T3 Hunter with a wooden stock, it'd be a doddle to carry something of that weight around after foxes.

I've never bought second hand. But, just off the top of my head I'd take a real close look at the rifle to see how well, or badly the previous owner has cared for it. I'd be tolerant of light scratch marks to the stock, but rust on metal I wouldn't like one bit. If it's a private buy, maybe see if the owner is willing to fire a few shots to see how well the gun shoots. Have a look down the bore towards something bright, see if you can pick out anything in the bore which shouldn't be there, pitting etc. Check the crown very carefully for pitting, dings, or other damage.

I just was looking at a tikka and Simmons 3.5-50 .223 fro €800 on irishguntrader, although it was advertised dec 2009

My cousin has a Sabati .223 for sale €500, light barrel and quite accurate, if only firing 3-5 shots in a sitting.

He is going to Canada hence sale

Cass

Below is my CZ 527. I love it. Its light enough to carry all day, but has enough weight to handle the small recoil of the .223. Mine has the Kevlar stock (simply because i like the feel better) and has a Burris Fulfield II scope, Wildcat Mod, Harris 9-13" swivel bipod.

The rifle fires like a dream and with the mod there is no felt recoil to speak of. The grouping was a little sparce at the begining, but once the barrel broke in she is shooting lovely now.

Honestly the gun sold itself to me at least. As a fan of CZ rifles (having had one in some caliber or another over the years) it wasn't a hard choice.

Vegeta

Love that set-up ezridax

Tackleberrywho

I have to say I just don't like CZ.
I've owned a BRNO a few years back now.

I just think they are ugly.
I like American stuff as it is chunky
I like German and Finnish stuff as it is really well made.

if a true foxer
http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/index.php5?produktID=307&menu=262&sprache=1&produktShow=detail

Cass

Ah jeeezzz Tack................


...................... how about we call it a CZ Remmy. That work for ya?

I'd rather have an out of the box CZ that shoots like a dream than a Remmy you have to change the barrel, stock, trigger, etc, etc on.

The chap is not looking for a "project". He wants a decent second hand rifle. I offered the CZ as an option. Others offered the Tikka (which i also think is and excellent rifle). You offer the Remmy and how to spend €1000+ (how would you put it) "pimping" it out.

Again ..............

Tackleberrywho

Ezri
a second hand remmy will be got same price as second had CZ

I'm a snob
I don't like CZ, i think they are ugly.

That is my opinion**
However CZ are good value for money.
But CZ have less "pimping" ability

The idea appeals to me that a Rifle can be tweaked to teh users pocket over time, so the user can end up with a serious rifle without having to put all the money up front.


Rifles are a taste matter you know a man that said he wanted to throw a Savage FTR in a skip yet his son loved them.

I love Remington, but yes i have tweaked them all.
A Remington VSSF II is €1200
They are a savage varminter, and they are far more "pretty" than a CZ

The Brno I owned (pre CZ) was far better made than the modern CZ

i have fired, stripped and cleaned both so i ma only talking from experience, the BRNO I owned was a target Rifle. Redic heavy but was a ten-X machine, my best score 193 but a guy shot 197 with it prior to I owning it.

but Both CZ were not "pretty"
I love my Bling and if the OP wants to sell on, Remington sell easier

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I love my Bling and if the OP wants to sell on, Remington sell easier

Not here they don't. Maybe in the US with its adoration of domestic product, but certainly not here.

Cass

I'm a snob
I don't like CZ, i think they are ugly.

Fair enough, everyone is different.

However CZ are good value for money.
But CZ have less "pimping" ability

See thats the problem. I bought mine for one reason and one reason only, Foxing. If i wanted a rifle that could shoot targets at 500+ yds then i buy a .223 target rifle. As i have said before no rifle will do both hunting and target work perfectly. You loose something in each. Not a great target rifle, but good hunter and vice versa.

The idea appeals to me that a Rifle can be tweaked to the users pocket over time, so the user can end up with a serious rifle without having to put all the money up front.

Again a fair point, but the OP is looking for a decent second hand rifle now. Unless he posts again saying he wants something he can upgrade later then i go on the premise that he wants a hunting only rifle.

Rifles are a taste matter you know a man that said he wanted to throw a Savage FTR in a skip yet his son loved them.

I assume you are refering to my father and his recent lack of faith in his shooting. As you seen that day the rifle shot 5 bulls in a row at 600yds. Its the shooter that has the issue not the rifle. Plus its a Palma not the FTR. Also both are for target work and target work only. He cannot use it for hunting and has no desire to "pimp" it as it has everything he needs, hence the reason he bought it and not a Remmy that he could get for €1200 then spend €2000 over 6 months upgrading to end up with what he has already

I love Remington, but yes i have tweaked them all.
A Remington VSSF II is €1200
They are a savage varminter, and they are far more "pretty" than a CZ

Personal choice and i don't criticise you for your views. If it comes down to pretty or good shooter you know what i'm going for.

but Both CZ were not "pretty"

Refer to point above. You didn't like the look of it yet is shot very well. I'm sure when in a competition you can take solace when you finsh 2nd or 3rd that your rifle is nicer than the guy who took first with the "ugly" gun.

I love my Bling and if the OP wants to sell on, Remington sell easier

I would never buy a rifle with resale value in mind. I would never choose. All of them loose money. I buy what i want if its what i want.


At the end of the day there are better rifles than Remmy. There are better rifles than CZ. Savage and especially Tikka seem to be edging ahead. Looks count for nothing if the rifle cannot perform. The OP seems to want a cheap yet functional second hand rifle, that works, performs, is reliable, etc. As mentioned previously unless he states he wants to upgrade shortly after buying then i'll stick with my previous endorsement and tell him to go with Tikka/CZ.

Tackleberrywho

ezridax wrote: »

Fair enough, everyone is different.



See thats the problem. I bought mine for one reason and one reason only, Foxing. If i wanted a rifle that could shoot targets at 500+ yds then i buy a .223 target rifle. As i have said before no rifle will do both hunting and target work perfectly. You loose something in each. Not a great target rifle, but good hunter and vice versa.



Again a fair point, but the OP is looking for a decent second hand rifle now. Unless he posts again saying he wants something he can upgrade later then i go on the premise that he wants a hunting only rifle.



I assume you are refering to my father and his recent lack of faith in his shooting. As you seen that day the rifle shot 5 bulls in a row at 600yds. Its the shooter that has the issue not the rifle. Plus its a Palma not the FTR. Also both are for target work and target work only. He cannot use it for hunting and has no desire to "pimp" it as it has everything he needs, hence the reason he bought it and not a Remmy that he could get for €1200 then spend €2000 over 6 months upgrading to end up with what he has already




Personal choice and i don't criticise you for your views. If it comes down to pretty or good shooter you know what i'm going for.



Refer to point above. You didn't like the look of it yet is shot very well. I'm sure when in a competition you can take solace when you finsh 2nd or 3rd that your rifle is nicer than the guy who took first with the "ugly" gun.



I would never buy a rifle with resale value in mind. I would never choose. All of them loose money. I buy what i want if its what i want.


At the end of the day there are better rifles than Remmy. There are better rifles than CZ. Savage and especially Tikka seem to be edging ahead. Looks count for nothing if the rifle cannot perform. The OP seems to want a cheap yet functional second hand rifle, that works, performs, is reliable, etc. As mentioned previously unless he states he wants to upgrade shortly after buying then i'll stick with my previous endorsement and tell him to go with Tikka/CZ.

Style is nothing without substance

for teh €2-500 mark a CZ is a great start.

And i have to say I "love your dad" in a "non gay way"
You two are so the same and yet sooooooo different.

Your Savage is a "savage" set up

If the OP has only €500 to spend get a CZ

But if i were to start again a Howa or Remington action and EDI stock and a Kreiger short barrel "fluted varminter. For madraí Rua i'd trim her to 18" and put an ASE S7 on her.

Either that or an Anschutz .223 Just for foxing!

bunny shooter

O/P a CZ 527 is what ya want The one Pat has for sale would do you a treat I reckon

Ezri & IWM...............you're wasting your time

Tac, as Anschutz have only just released their first .223 I doubt it will be a cheap option :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

O/P a CZ 527 is what ya want The one Pat has for sale would do you a treat I reckon

Ezri & IWM...............you're wasting your time

Tac, as Anschutz have only just released their first .223 I doubt it will be a cheap option :rolleyes:

True bunny Patsats .223 is the cheapest option

bunny shooter

And IMO the best option for what he/she wants.

And before you start again ............ I have a remmy VSSF too :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

And IMO the best option for what he/she wants.

And before you start again ............ I have a remmy VSSF too :rolleyes:

For sale

I know Bunny, tis recessionary times, i remember fellas not caring about price, i saw 6 blasers and 2 unique Alpines sold in a week

Seems so long ago now

Hopefully it will return soon!

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

For sale

Not anymore

Hondata92

@OP, in the title of this thread you say .223 or similar and in you post you mention ammo cost is a factor.

IMO if you are after something to shoot foxs at less than 200yards and nothing else then yes a .223 is perfect for you, but stay away from the real cheap ammo such as american eagles as you get what you pay for and personally i think its dirt. As for FMJ (full metal jacket) ammo it should be allowed in this country as it just zips through anything you might try to shoot in the field.

If you want a calibre that will easily shoot foxs to 400+yard that flat shooting and bucks the wind well then id personally recommend the .204 ruger round, a 39gr .204 has very little drop and easily puts down foxs. Not as popular as the .223 as its only really a new round but its going places and fast.

Ammo is roughly 20-25 euro a box but unlike cheap .223 rounds its very consistent and from what ive heard (might not be true) but the guards are making it harder for people to get the likes of a .223 as its practically the same as the military 5.56mm

Most manufacturers are doing a .204 rifle these days and even though they might be more expensive to bu in the long run i think they ar a better round for in the field.

As for the whole remigntom modular issue in this thread, they arent modular simple as. It was mentioned here about people buying remingtons and scrapping all but the action, simple fact is that the action is the only part worth using, they reason they are popular in america is because they are so mass produced and people change everything except the action.

Most gun builders in this country use remington astions as they can improve on them beyond belief as the tollerances from factory are so slack, they change the barrels and stocks, if not they have to atleast bed the stock

If i was to buy a factory box rifle with no intentions of changing anything on it but wanted it to shot whilst still being on a budget id pick sako,tikka,cz or weatherby

All this is my opinion but im sure a few people here will agree with me

noodle650

€500 would be my budget for gun, then a few extra for a mod and scope.

.223 is cheap and effective, but range would be more effective with the likes of a .204 so im told, all i want is something light, that will shoot nice groups at 200, and be able to take a foxy out to 300 if required!

i really do like the cz527 with synthetic stock and carbine barrel, two of my frriends have one and they both shoot like a dream!

basically, as long as it can do the above out of the box or off the shelf ill be happy.

it needs to be synthetic aswell.

Thanks guys

Cass

Hondata92 wrote: »

............. but stay away from the real cheap ammo such as american eagles as you get what you pay for and personally i think its dirt. ....................

Some good points there and i agree with all except the above piece.

Personally i use American Eagle (among others) and from the get go they have been the most consistant, accurate and reliable round i've used. Granted they are a little dirtier than the Hornady, Federal, etc, but for zeroing or just a good day out blowing off a few rounds they are perfect. Plus cleaning equipment (mops, patches and oils, etc) are not that dear.

Other than that good post. Thanks.

Vegeta

ezridax wrote: »

Some good points there and i agree with all except the above piece.

Personally i use American Eagle (among others) and from the get go they have been the most consistant, accurate and reliable round i've used. Granted they are a little dirtier than the Hornady, Federal, etc, but for zeroing or just a good day out blowing off a few rounds they are perfect. Plus cleaning equipment (mops, patches and oils, etc) are not that dear.

Other than that good post. Thanks.

I would agree

Friend put 5 rounds of AE into 2.5 inches last week at 300 yards. Now while that will never win any target competitions it is certainly good enough for fox.

virminhunter

I dont know from experience but this looks like a fairly decent .223 to me, it weighs 6.9 pounds though, thats the same weight as my cz kevlar...
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

virminhunter

Vegeta wrote: »

I would agree

Friend put 5 rounds of AE into 2.5 inches last week at 300 yards. Now while that will never win any target competitions it is certainly good enough for fox.

yep their a great round, like ez said its handy to "zero" with these then you just need to make a small adustment for your ballistic tips for hunting...:)

Vegeta

Nice group

Not far off 0.5MOA, we should keep this thread for the next time someone slags the cheap .223 ammo

More than capable

bunny shooter

Hondata92 wrote: »

......As for FMJ (full metal jacket) ammo it should be allowed in this country...........

Should ONLY be sold to someone who can prove they are target shooting with it.

+1 on the rest :cool: