"Maynooth Students' Union Snubs Hanafin Visit"

Alt_Grrr

It seems the planned presence of Mary Hanafin on campus has raised some eyebrows in the SU.

So much so that they intend to boycott the proceedings. (Which is also what happened when they opened the engineering and bio-sciences building).
SU Press Release can be found Here

But the real question is, what do you think?

banquo

What do think indeed...


(Sorry Karl, couldn't resist...)

J.D.R

I think the SU is entirely justified to boycott the visit. Fair deuce to the college for further expansion, but why does a minister need to come down when we are only a few months away from unveiling the 2011 budget?

Would her time not be better served finding out how to improve educational standards in teaching, decrease the cost of education, or finding out how to make eduction more accessible to the population, instead of coming down to the college for a cup of tea and an opening ceremony?

Kiwi_knock

Agree with the move from the SU, it is the right move to make on behalf of the students of this college even if it makes you unpopular with the University authorities. A worthy stance to take and I applaud the SU for taking this difficult choice for the benefit of the student body.

Seren_

J.D.R wrote: »

I think the SU is entirely justified to boycott the visit. Fair deuce to the college for further expansion, but why does the minister of Education need to come down when we are only a few months away from unveiling the 2011 budget?

I know I'm being pedantic, but she's actually Minister for Tourism, Culture, and Sport.

Anyway, I think it's good that the SU is standing up for what they believe in and not pandering to ministers, makes a change from some previous incarnations.

J.D.R

Your Text Here wrote: »

I know I'm being pedantic, but she's actually Minister for Tourism, Culture, and Sport.

Anyway, I think it's good that the SU is standing up for what they believe in and not pandering to ministers, makes a change from some previous incarnations.

Oh god your right:o. I keep getting hanifan and coughlin mixed up.

chillian17

"Maynooth Students’ Union Snubs Hanafin Visit"

I f*cking love this college.

Kiwi_knock

J.D.R wrote: »

Oh god your right:o. I keep getting hanifan and coughlin mixed up.

To be fair Hanafin is a better politician than Coughlan and her being an alumnus I can understand why she was invited to this ceremony. But the SU rightly took the right step in not being affiliated with anything that is associated with FF.

Ostrom

Should amend for the sight of last years union representatives enjoying tea in their sunday best with Batt O' Keeffe

Ian Beale

Their thinking of raising the charges to €2500? :mad: ffs it's painful enough paying the €1500. Unless it's all a ploy to make them look good by turning around in a months time and saying they won't be increasing the charge.

If there looking to get a few million quickly I have a suggestion for them, cut all of the politicians salaries by a minimum of 50% and scrap all of their expenses. Sorry for the slight off topic rant but quite frankly I'm sick of the lot of them swanning around in expensive cars at our expense while they've put the country in debt for god knows how many years for us to pay off.

smiles302

There's going to be a protest now?

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=100200956709558

hypersquirrel

Ian Beale wrote: »

Their thinking of raising the charges to €2500? :mad: ffs it's painful enough paying the €1500. Unless it's all a ploy to make them look good by turning around in a months time and saying they won't be increasing the charge.

If there looking to get a few million quickly I have a suggestion for them, cut all of the politicians salaries by a minimum of 50% and scrap all of their expenses. Sorry for the slight off topic rant but quite frankly I'm sick of the lot of them swanning around in expensive cars at our expense while they've put the country in debt for god knows how many years for us to pay off.

2500 is a pittance compared to other countries. Honestly I don't see that we have anything to complain about here.

Anyway I can't say I'm bothered by Hanafin visiting but it is good to see the SU getting off the fence.

titi

hypersquirrel wrote: »

2500 is a pittance compared to other countries. Honestly I don't see that we have anything to complain about here.

Anyway I can't say I'm bothered by Hanafin visiting but it is good to see the SU getting off the fence.

1500 is already a lot!!! commonnnnn in france we pay something like 300 euros a year (undergraduate level)!!! this year i paid 4.57 euros!! yayyy

Sardonicat

Great! I did four years in Maynooth and finally they've got a decent SU! Well done.

J.D.R

hypersquirrel wrote: »

2500 is a pittance compared to other countries. Honestly I don't see that we have anything to complain about here.

Anyway I can't say I'm bothered by Hanafin visiting but it is good to see the SU getting off the fence.

I don't mean to get personal, but just because you may think 2500 is a pittance definitely does not mean others do. I can personally say if it wasn't for the grant scheme I would not have any chance of being able to afford college, and that's at the current €1500 level.

If it was raised to a further €2500 it would put too much strain on the committee and would therefore seriously restrict the amount of aid they could issue those who need it to gain a third level education.

TouchingVirus

Who would you prefer open the building, while we're discussing it?

I'll be there, but only as a matter of formality because I work there. I'm completely against the reintroduction of fees and the increase in Student Services charges. I fully applaud the union's stance on this.

J.D.R

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Who would you prefer open the building, while we're discussing it?

I'll be there, but only as a matter of formality because I work there. I'm completely against the reintroduction of fees and the increase in Student Services charges. I fully applaud the union's stance on this.

I don't think any of the ministers should be there. Not in this day and age. This seems to be the kind of thing the Mayor would do, but for any member of Daíl Éireann to come down to open a building short while away from announcing one of the most crucial budgets of the last 10 years is beyond a joke. If they have the time to take a day out to do ceremonies like this, I say they are an unnecessary expenditure to the taxpayer and should be sacked.

This is the kind of thing we have mayors for, to deal with local issues. I know Maynooth is an NUI, but that does not mean we need the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport to open a new building, alumnus or not.

irish_goat

J.D.R wrote: »

I don't mean to get personal, but just because you may think 2500 is a pittance definitely does not mean others do. I can personally say if it wasn't for the grant scheme I would not have any chance of being able to afford college, and that's at the current €1500 level.

If it was raised to a further €2500 it would put too much strain on the committee and would therefore seriously restrict the amount of aid they could issue those who need it to gain a third level education.

How do you think people who don't get grants pay for college...?

mickstupp

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Who would you prefer open the building, while we're discussing it?

Personally, I'd prefer if the Student's Union opened the building.

To hell with politicians.

Kiwi_knock

If they are looking at famous alumni to open the building they may as well have opted for Craig Doyle.

J.D.R

irish_goat wrote: »

How do you think people who don't get grants pay for college...?

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

irish_goat

J.D.R wrote: »

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

You're saying the grant is essential for you (and others) to go to college but I'm wondering if you realise that there's plenty of people who don't get the grant and manage to make it through college.

J.D.R

irish_goat wrote: »

You're saying the grant is essential for you (and others) to go to college but I'm wondering if you realise that there's plenty of people who don't get the grant and manage to make it through college.

I fully realise that, but like I said, I was speaking from personal experience. I was saying that without the grant I, myself, would not be able to get to college. I was not saying that everyone who goes to college is receiving a grant

irish_goat

It's high time there was a state backed low interest student loan provision introduced in Ireland. The current system whereby your parents income decides if you get funding for college (as if a family earning over 50k is able to afford to spare 6k (per child) to send them to college is a joke. There's also no reason why graduates can't be expected to pay back their maintenance allowance if they start earning a decent wage.

I'm not meaning to jump at you JDR but i'm just a bit pissed off by the fact that I needed to work 6-7 nights a week this summer to be able to afford to go to college this year. Luckily I had a job but if I didn't I'd not be going anywhere and if I don't land a job in Maynooth I'll probably be skint by Christmas. So I get a bit pissed off when I hear grant holders moaning about losing 5% of the grant...

J.D.R

irish_goat wrote: »

It's high time there was a state backed low interest student loan provision introduced in Ireland. The current system whereby your parents income decides if you get funding for college (as if a family earning over 50k is able to afford to spare 6k (per child) to send them to college is a joke. There's also no reason why graduates can't be expected to pay back their maintenance allowance if they start earning a decent wage.

I'm not meaning to jump at you JDR but i'm just a bit pissed off by the fact that I needed to work 6-7 nights a week this summer to be able to afford to go to college this year. Luckily I had a job but if I didn't I'd not be going anywhere and if I don't land a job in Maynooth I'll probably be skint by Christmas. So I get a bit pissed off when I hear grant holders moaning about losing 5% of the grant...

I fully understand where your coming from. But, just so you know, it's not like I sat back this summer knowing I would have a grant next year. I sent out 57 CV's (I counted) and went to 7 interviews this summer, and got about 2 weeks work with odd days here and there. It is very hard findgin emploiyment nowadays at 17 with 2 years experience, when your fighting against 35 year old college graduates with 15 years experience. I would have jumped at the chance to work for my money this summer.

And, I would have no problem paying back every cent of my grant when I graduate. I just also get a bit peeved off when people feel that grant holders don't deserve their qualifications, as if they didn't work for it or something.

hypersquirrel

J.D.R wrote: »

I don't mean to get personal, but just because you may think 2500 is a pittance definitely does not mean others do. I can personally say if it wasn't for the grant scheme I would not have any chance of being able to afford college, and that's at the current €1500 level.

If it was raised to a further €2500 it would put too much strain on the committee and would therefore seriously restrict the amount of aid they could issue those who need it to gain a third level education.

I didn't say I think €2500 is a pittance. I said it is a pittance compared to other countries. I'm actually currently €6000 in debt having taken out a loan to do masters. I have never been eligible for any grant money or assistance of any sort. I worked 2 part time jobs and an another temporary job at Christmas in order to pay for it. I'm now coming back to do my PhD so that's going to mean another loan. Even when I finish my PhD my debt is going to be less then my cousin in England after his undergraduate.

J.D.R

hypersquirrel wrote: »

I didn't say I think €2500 is a pittance. I said it is a pittance compared to other countries.

But, you can't just look at the cost compared to other countries. You have to take in many other factors, like government policy, tax levels, value of the qualification, cost of living etc, and in Ireland, I can safely say that a further increase to 2500 for fees alone would drastically cut into Irelands reputation of having a highly educated workforce

hypersquirrel

J.D.R wrote: »

But, you can't just look at the cost compared to other countries. You have to take in many other factors, like government policy, tax levels, value of the qualification, cost of living etc, and in Ireland, I can safely say that a further increase to 2500 for fees alone would drastically cut into Irelands reputation of having a highly educated workforce

It could also be argued that if we introduced proper fees the money could be used to improve the facilities and quality of the education we receive..

smiles302

Yeah I sometimes think full fees would be better for all involved, once there were proper student loans easily available. Proper students loans as in you don't start paying interest until you have finished your degree.

But I don't know where the money goes or how much control the government has over spending. So I probably shouldn't comment haha.

CFC1905_NK

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Agree with the move from the SU, it is the right move to make on behalf of the students of this college even if it makes you unpopular with the University authorities. A worthy stance to take and I applaud the SU for taking this difficult choice for the benefit of the student body.

I second this, great that the SU is showing its priority towards student's welfare instead of conforming to the powers that be. Kudos to Aengus and co.

funky penguin

Congrats SU, long may it continue.

In similar news, I cannot wait for the postgrad/international mentor reception at Iontas on Friday, break the place in.

banquo

We're dressing up as professions. Dunno what I should go as. Might just look like I'm emigrating by wearing a suit and have a suitcase with a "Bangor, Wales" sticker on it.

Ian Beale

banquo wrote: »

We're dressing up as professions. Dunno what I should go as. Might just look like I'm emigrating by wearing a suit and have a suitcase with a "Bangor, Wales" sticker on it.

I see what you did there :cool:

TouchingVirus

banquo wrote: »

We're dressing up as professions. Dunno what I should go as. Might just look like I'm emigrating by wearing a suit and have a suitcase with a "Bangor, Wales" sticker on it.

ZING! Take that Prof. John Hughes

@funky penguin: LOL! Iontas is already well broken in. It's hosted easily 10 receptions at this stage, from the IASIL conference to the Anthropology conference and a few other bits and pieces

freeze4real

J.D.R wrote: »

I don't mean to get personal, but just because you may think 2500 is a pittance definitely does not mean others do. I can personally say if it wasn't for the grant scheme I would not have any chance of being able to afford college, and that's at the current €1500 level.

If it was raised to a further €2500 it would put too much strain on the committee and would therefore seriously restrict the amount of aid they could issue those who need it to gain a third level education.

Tbh guys 1500 - 2500 is t alot compared to what non eu international students will pay.
They're paying up to 14000 depending on their courses.

Although I agree with the point that it a waste of talent.

mickstupp

It may be true to say that the cost is not much compared to that in other countries, or paid by any other students, but I completely fail to see how that's even remotely relevant to anyone having the slightest difficulty in paying the fees.

freeze4real

mickstupp wrote: »

It may be true to say that the cost is not much compared to that in other countries, or paid by any other students, but I completely fail to see how that's even remotely relevant to anyone having the slightest difficulty in paying the fees.

what I'm saying is 1500 is not much.
For me its not knowing that I could be paying worse.
some other guy here said something about others making it to college even though they couldn't afford it.
Or i think that was what he said.

there are credit unions AFAIK the banks do loans that you can pay when you've graduated and you have a job,
please correct me if i'm wrong.

And speaking of grants 80 percent of all Irish might be able to get it or more correct me again if i'm wrong because the criteria's are straight forward.

J.D.R

freeze4real wrote: »

there are credit unions AFAIK the banks do loans that you can pay when you've graduated and you have a job,
please correct me if i'm wrong.

These loans are based on your credit history and your parents income status, which for many, rules them out of getting a loan.

I completely agree with what Irish_Goat said, about it being high time that there was a government backed state system of low interest student loans, where the policy of handing out loans is not based on your parents.

mickstupp

^I'd sign up for one in a second if I could pay it back after getting me qualification. Whether that be in the form of extra tax, or just when my earnings reach a particular level. I'd be there in a heartbeat.

freeze4real wrote: »

what I'm saying is 1500 is not much.
For me its not knowing that I could be paying worse.
some other guy here said something about others making it to college even though they couldn't afford it.
Or i think that was what he said.

there are credit unions AFAIK the banks do loans that you can pay when you've graduated and you have a job,
please correct me if i'm wrong.

And speaking of grants 80 percent of all Irish might be able to get it or more correct me again if i'm wrong because the criteria's are straight forward.

1500 is also not much compared to the military budget of Mongolia, especially when you throw in 17 Mini Coopers and an elephant. And neither that nor the cost of fees in literally anywhere else in the universe, or for anyone else, has the slightest relevance to someone who can't afford fees here and now. You may just as well say why are you complaining about 1500, sure would you look at those bananas over there!

I don't know if the banks do loans that you can pay when you've graduated or have a job. It's the first I've heard of it in this country. I wish I'd heard of it a month ago. Of course, maybe those loans exist if you're lucky enough to have a guarantor, or a job, or a decent amount of savings, or etc. Again, I don't know. I'll take your word for it. But just because banks exist and loan money to people in general, doesn't necessarily mean they're going to give a person a loan. People get refused loans all the time, even people with perfect credit ratings.

I don't know the exact number, but I'll take your word for the 80% on grants. I'd just point out that the 20% who don't get grants are not made up entirely of people who can afford it and therefore don't pass through the means testing system. There may be relatively few people who fall through the cracks, and the criteria may be straightforward, but the means testing system in this country is broken. If a person doesn't get a grant, you cannot assume it's because they can afford it. And the same if a person does get a grant, that doesn't mean everything's peachy. The point being everyone's situation is different. Generally comparing the cost to literally anything else is irrelevant to the particular person having problems coming up with the money.

Based on recent evidence from elsewhere, I'd like to apologise if I offended you in this post. I appear to do that quite a lot because I'm not careful enough with my words or tone. So just in case... I'm not intending to offend you or to be a prick.

ChristopherUno

I would just like to congratulate the SU for its stance on the Hanaffin visit. The letter they drafted really captured the feelings of myself and everyone I know in my own situation. Anyone I know who graduated last year is either on the dole or emigrating, I don't know anyone who has managed to secure any decent full- or even part-time work here in Ireland. If the government think they can have a day off this close to a make or break budget it shows how seriously they take the country's situation to be.

On the subject of grants, I come from a single parent family and am going into my final year of college in Maynooth. My brother graduated from the same institution last year and is unemployed. We were on 1/2 grant last year but now as he's finished his degree we've both been cut off. My mam checked it out and turns out her wages are €50 over the limit for getting a maintenance grant. Without the grant and at present without any sort of job (not for want of trying) I'll struggle to make ends meet this year. €1,500 is a pittance compared to other countries, this is true. But Ireland also has a pathetic system in place for helping students through college. It's all based on a Celtic Tiger mindset of "ah sure their parents have loads of disposable income *pause for pat on back* let them pay for it". But now with many families in debt and incomes severely reduced (my mam works in the public sector, thank God she's still got a job though) this system is no longer feasible. But don't worry, I'm sure the government have a plan to help us out...

banquo

The grant system,designed in theory to bring equality, is a joke.

Anyone else out for the protest on Thursday?

CFC1905_NK

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

If they are looking at famous alumni to open the building they may as well have opted for Craig Doyle.

Or Sean Munsanje(the male presenter off Xposé)

ILBondo

hypersquirrel wrote: »

2500 is a pittance compared to other countries. Honestly I don't see that we have anything to complain about here.

Il have to pull you up on that one. of the other fee charging countries in Europe, Austria, Luxembourg, Germany, Portugal, France charge much less than our €1500 and in the UK they have a students loan system. Here most institutions wont let you get a student card until you've paid the full amount, and banks aren't exactly forthcoming with lending these days.

hypersquirrel

ILBondo wrote: »

Il have to pull you up on that one. of the other fee charging countries in Europe, Austria, Luxembourg, Germany, Portugal, France charge much less than our €1500 and in the UK they have a students loan system. Here most institutions wont let you get a student card until you've paid the full amount, and banks aren't exactly forthcoming with lending these days.

I'll accept that point but it still stands that we have it better then many others.

There has been a huge amount of discussion regarding removing fee exemption in Germany over the last few years.

Italy is pretty much on a par with us.
The Dutch €5000 plus.
Uk £3000 plus
US $5000 plus
Canada $9000 plus

It seems to me that the main issue for most people is that their isn't a proper student loan system. I would agree with that but I suggested that to some of the people I know and they weren't willing to make that compromise.

I finished my undergraduate degree with no debt whatsoever. Any of my family in the UK have left with a minimum of £8000 debt while some of them are as much as £16000 in debt.

I for one am grateful we have it as easy as we do. I worked all throughout my degree and had no difficulty in paying despite having no grant assistance. It simply meant I couldn't afford to go out and get hammered every weekend and or go on a two week holiday during the summer.

ILBondo

I also had to work part time during college and TWO jobs during the summer just to pay the registration fee which was then just over €800. These days the registration fee is double that figure and jobs are much scarcer than they were when i was doing my undergrad. What was a problem back then, is an even bigger problem now. The reg fee at its current level is even more unfair than a deferred loan system or a graduate tax, but i support neither of those options.

hypersquirrel

ILBondo wrote: »

I also had to work part time during college and TWO jobs during the summer just to pay the registration fee which was then just over €800. These days the registration fee is double that figure and jobs are much scarcer than they were when i was doing my undergrad. What was a problem back then, is an even bigger problem now. The reg fee at its current level is even more unfair than a deferred loan system or a graduate tax, but i support neither of those options.

That is exactly my point. The people that complain about fees are the same ones that don't want a deferred loan system or graduate tax etc etc. The fact of the matter is that a compromise is needed.

Speaking as a postgrad who pays fees I can say now that it is possible.

Anyway this is getting way off topic so I'm going to leave this to another thread.

ILBondo

I think a compromise would be to increase Ireland's Education spending to the OECD average, even under the boom years it lagged a precentage point beneath it. Investment in education is a good investment as it helps recovery. http://bit.ly/b5KRxN

funky penguin

TouchingVirus wrote: »

ZING! Take that Prof. John Hughes

@funky penguin: LOL! Iontas is already well broken in. It's hosted easily 10 receptions at this stage, from the IASIL conference to the Anthropology conference and a few other bits and pieces

I meant personally

Kinski

Is in today's Independent...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hanafin-to-face-protests-at-her-former-university-2335240.html

A GUARD of "dishonour" will await Education Minister Mary Hanafin when she visits her alma mater this week. Furious students attending NUI Maynooth are planning to protest at her visit to the college on Thursday morning.
The opening of the new Iontas building will be marred by the protest, students are warning.
In a letter to NUI Maynooth president Prof John Hughes, the Students' Union said: "The Cabinet is considering further cuts to basic student services and to the third-level sector. It is unclear to us why the university should be honouring the minister, even though she is a notable graduate, at this time."

Not showing up = 'guard of dishonour'? They make it sound a little dramatic.

irish_goat

Kinski wrote: »

Is in today's Independent...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hanafin-to-face-protests-at-her-former-university-2335240.html




Not showing up = 'guard of dishonour'? They make it sound a little dramatic.

They are showing up.

Alt_Grrr

Kinski wrote: »

Is in today's Independent...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hanafin-to-face-protests-at-her-former-university-2335240.html




Not showing up = 'guard of dishonour'? They make it sound a little dramatic.

did you not read the bit about the planned protest??