Corporal punishment of children

Nevyn

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

This sounds vaguely familar to someone who got banned a while back in the parenting forum. Kossomething. You sure it's not a rereg?

There does seem to be a link. Kosseegan is permanently banned from parenting.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055780693

Kosseegan wrote: »

I did not intend to insult all Irish parents. There are some who leave a lot to be desired.
When my childrens teachers report misbehaviour by them, the children are punished appropriately at home. We go through all of their schoolbooks every evening and any red biro must to be explained. We have every few complaints about their behaviour from their teachers and they are doing well at school.
I learned my parenting from my parents who brought me up. I do not need any courses in so called child centerd parenting or whatever the latest American fad is. I follow the parenting methods used by my parents and their parents although I must admit that I use a nylon cane, which is more hygienic, rather than the rattan canes my parents used.

Kosseegan wrote: »

I only give strokes in parallel. I do not use a cross stroke. that way there is no broken skin and hence no blood. A nylon can can be wiped with surgical spirit before and after use and so is always perfectly clean. This is not effective with wooden canes because they cannot be cleaned in that manner.

the admins can look it over, sorry mods if this has dragged the thread off topic.

Goesague

Thaedydal wrote: »

There does seem to be a link. Kosseegan is permanently banned from parenting.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055780693





the admins can look it over, sorry mods if this has dragged the thread off topic.

I simply stated that I bought a cane. I never said what type or in what manner I use it. Do you think there is only one person in the universe who uses a cane? Also there is no mention of the soles of the feet by that other poster. You are letting your distaste for corporal punishment get out of hand.

Nevyn

Anyone one wants to read the thread in parenting can read it and see the posts about girls been beated on the feet.

I am not going to enguage with you on this any futher Goesague the admin can review it.
If they say you are not a re reg of that post I will with draw the accusation but I am doubtful I will have to.

Goesague

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously, why bother be insulting?

D

All you did is repeat what I said, which is pointless.

Deleted User wrote: »

How so? Corporal being about the body. If the punishment is applied to the body, then it is still going to be corporal punishment. Or perhaps I misunderstand the term?
D

You clearly don't understand the difference between Capital and Corporal punishment.

Deleted User wrote: »

Very nice, but you haven't added anything new. Drink driving still occurs in this country. The individuals involved continue until they are caught or reported. Anything new to add?
D

Are you trying to claim the law on drink driving is not enforced? It certainly is enforced. Are you saying it was not enforced from the date of enactment?

Deleted User wrote: »

When I was in school, there was no concerted effort to get students to complain of such behavior to either their parents or the authorities. This has changed. Students know that they're not to be hit, and make use of it. It was very different 20 years ago.
D

Deleted User wrote: »

So you were 13 years old and you didn't know that teachers should not rap your skull. If that is the case I am surprised that you felt the raps. Your skull must be extremely dense. Why does there need to be a concerted effort. All it takes is one pupil to go to his solicitor or the guards.

Deleted User wrote: »

How was I caught bluffing? I said that some forms of corporal punishment continued past the outlawing of it. You supplied some rather extreme examples, whereas I mentioned an example similar to the rapping of knuckles on the head. Something I myself received.
D

You claimed there was some general principle of law that laws are not enforced for a period of years after they are enacted. That is completely untrue. You have not shown a single example nor been able to controvert mine. You said this to bolster up your claim to be 33 years old and to have experienced corporal punishment. Didn't happen. No need to make up fairy stories.

Deleted User wrote: »

You have not posted anything which shows that I am mistaken.
D

I have shown you to be a liar.

Deleted User wrote: »

Really?

Yes!

metrovelvet

GreeBo wrote: »

The problem is that many people (myself included) do not consider slapping a child to be the same as beating a child. They are totally different mindsets IMO and should not be considered as the same topic.
If you do consider a smack on the bum as "corporal punishment" then I think you open the door to having to consider "the naughty spot" as isolation and deprivation treatment.

Actually the naughty spot is frowned upon by some child psychologists as using humiliation and sadism towards a child.

It would be interesting to imagine thirty years down the line how common parenting practises will be looked on as sociopathic and abusive.

Truley

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

This sounds vaguely familar to someone who got banned a while back in the parenting forum. Kossomething. You sure it's not a rereg?

Whoever it is, if disciplining your children involves buying things in fetish shops, I think it's time to rethink your parenting methods.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

metrovelvet wrote: »

Actually the naughty spot is frowned upon by some child psychologists as using humiliation and sadism towards a child.

It would be interesting to imagine thirty years down the line how common parenting practises will be looked on as sociopathic and abusive.

Where as smacking isn't?

I think the concept is right, but actually calling it the "naughty step" is the problem. At some point, though, you're going to have to remove the disruptive child whatever method you use.

metrovelvet

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Where as smacking isn't?

I think the concept is right, but actually calling it the "naughty step" is the problem. At some point, though, you're going to have to remove the disruptive child whatever method you use.

Yeah but you can do that without humiliating them. Number one rule in conflict resolution - have to allow the other party to save face. You dont think kids feel it too?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Asolutely. Which is another reasons why I don't smack. I remember the humiliation of being smacked.

Rule number one in conflict resolution is never to resort to violence, I would have though.

Mary Hairy

RedXIV wrote: »

I don't think anyone is disputing the differences. I wouldn't condone an actual beating of a child, instead we are talking about the idea of a slap on the wrist/bottom to amplify a point

Brushing the skin with freshly picked nettles is not beating either, but it is not exactly a mild punishment.,

metrovelvet

Anyone here get their mouths washed out with soap for bad language?

Our first grade teacher used to do that.

Funny coming from someone who smoked in the classroom.

AudreyHepburn

Personally I think any form of violence against a child is wrong. I don't even like the idea of a mother slapping a child for being naughty.

Nothing gives a grown man or woman the right to raise your hand to a child imo and the only thing it will teach them is that violence is the way to deal with people who annoy you or hurt you.

Surely in this day and age we can find more appropriate, affective and less potentially damaging ways to discipline our children?

Mary Hairy

crabfeet wrote: »

What parent would nettle a child?

Usually the mother. There were a few girls at school with me who used to get it. They were all living in the same rural townland. It was always the mother who did it. Seems to have been a tradition in the area. There was a"Big House" nearby and years ago the local girls used to work as maids in it. The housekeeper used to nettle them if they were slacking at work.

caseyann

Mary Hairy wrote: »

Usually the mother. There were a few girls at school with me who used to get it. They were all living in the same rural townland. It was always the mother who did it. Seems to have been a tradition in the area. There was a"Big House" nearby and years ago the local girls used to work as maids in it. The housekeeper used to nettle thme if they were slaccking at work.

Even hitting off one of them is agonizingly sore How could anyone do that i would rather a spanking anyday.

Mary Hairy

caseyann wrote: »

Even hitting off one of them is agonizingly sore How could anyone do that i would rather a spanking anyday.

If you got the beatings these girls would get with a stick from their fathers you would take a nettling any day.

caseyann

Mary Hairy wrote: »

If you got the beatings these girls would get with a stick from their fathers you would take a nettling any day.

Thats just backward Neanderthal thinking.:(

Jo King

caseyann wrote: »

Thats just backward Neanderthal thinking.:(

On whose part?

caseyann

Jo King wrote: »

On whose part?

The mother and father,nettling or beating

metrovelvet

My dad went to Irish boarding school. He said the molestations were better than the beatings they used to get. Nice huh. How is this not a human rights blemish on Irish history?

caseyann

metrovelvet wrote: »

My dad went to Irish boarding school. He said the molestations were better than the beatings they used to get. Nice huh. How is this not a human rights blemish on Irish history?

Its everywhere,just buried deeper.

Jo King

caseyann wrote: »

The mother and father,nettling or beating

It seems like it was years ago. You cant apply modern standards to things that happened long ago. Many parents thought they were failing in their duty if they didn't punish children severely.

Mary Hairy

caseyann wrote: »

Even hitting off one of them is agonizingly sore How could anyone do that i would rather a spanking anyday.

I do not know how they did it. Those girls were very clannish and wouldn't say very much. Things just came out in bits and pieces. from local lore the way it was done in the "Big House" was the housekeeper and the cook would take the maid to an outhouse. the maid would be told to pull her bloomers down to her knees, while standing up. The housekeeper would have gloves on.She would take the hem of the girls drss And lift it up above the knees at the fron to about mid thigh. the cook would hand her a nettle. she would brush the netttle on the girls thigs. Then she would put a fresh nettle between the girls legs. the girl would be told to turn around and the back of her dress would be lifted to mid thigh. Another nettle would be brushed on the backs of the thighs and a fresh nettle or two would then be brushed off the bare bum. the girls would then be sent back to work. The pain would last for about three hours and the only thing top do was work like a demon to take on'e mind off the pain.nettling was regarded as a good cure for laziness.

Boskowski

For starters I don't agree with hitting children hard, but at the same time I'd like to point out a few things.

It's not just as easy as kids learn by example and imitation. Everybody who has a kid (and I don't btw) will tell you no matter how good an example you are they will be demons at times. They will play you they will manipulate you they will want to figure out how far they can go they will do exactly what they shouldn't be doing - knowingly and deliberately - they will take the p1ss and get the better of you.

I'm not sure it's all wrong for an odd clip around the ears in certain situations then. Obviously you need to discipline them somehow otherwise you'll be walked over. When I observe parents I see it doesn't require a hard smack. An easy clip will draw tears and make a statement that they crossed a line and they'd better not.

That goes in line with what I received myself as a child and I never turned into a violent person or hated my parents over it. I can't remember myself being a little demon but I'm sure I was. I can see it with kids from friends and family.

axel rose

Mary Hairy wrote: »

I do not know how they did it. Those girls were very clannish and wouldn't say very much. Things just came out in bits and pieces. from local lore the way it was done in the "Big House" was the housekeeper and the cook would take the maid to an outhouse. the maid would be told to pull her bloomers down to her knees, while standing up. The housekeeper would have gloves on.She would take the hem of the girls drss And lift it up above the knees at the fron to about mid thigh. the cook would hand her a nettle. she would brush the netttle on the girls thigs. Then she would put a fresh nettle between the girls legs. the girl would be told to turn around and the back of her dress would be lifted to mid thigh. Another nettle would be brushed on the backs of the thighs and a fresh nettle or two would then be brushed off the bare bum. the girls would then be sent back to work. The pain would last for about three hours and the only thing top do was work like a demon to take on'e mind off the pain.nettling was regarded as a good cure for laziness.

That made my blood run cold. How long ago was this? Did it happen in Ireland? When you said between the legs- did you mean their bits or their thighs? How could someone sleep at night after doing that to another human?

Mary Hairy

axel rose wrote: »

That made my blood run cold. How long ago was this? Did it happen in Ireland? When you said between the legs- did you mean their bits or their thighs? How could someone sleep at night after doing that to another human?

It was in Ireland. Back in the early years of the last century. The "big House" was burned in the Civil War. My sister worked in a hospital and some of the patients had worked there. One of the old women used to ramble a bit and she described it.
It all started seemingly when a new mistress married in, after the owner died. A nephew inherited and brought in this woman. She came acroos the housekeeper beating a maid with a strap one day. the maid was bent onto a table with her dress up and bloomers down. The mistress forbade the beating of maids and forcing them to reveal intimate body parts.
Nettling was then used on the maids, since it didn't involve beating and the nettles could be applied to their skin without the necessity to force them to bare all!
The maids had little choice but to succumb to it as they would have been dismissed instantly if they didn't. They were all from very poor families and the loss of their wage and keep would have been ruinous.
It seems that some of them used the punishment on their own daughters and so on. They didn't talk about it much at school but we heard occasional remarks.

crabfeet

i don't think any parent would get away with nettling a child these days. I believe that it was not until 1997 that the right of an employer to admionister corporal punishment to juvenille employees wasf finally abolished!

Jo King

It would be harder to prove nettling because there would be no visible mark after a few hours. It has been years since employers really beat employees with impunity.

crabfeet

jenny jinks wrote: »

I don't know about that. A friend of mine works as a secretary for a middle aged woman. The bosss gives her a whack every so often. She is afraid to do anything about it as jobs are so hard to get.

There is a big difference between an occasional whack and sytematic beating!

Vourney

jenny jinks wrote: »

I don't know about that. A friend of mine works as a secretary for a middle aged woman. The bosss gives her a whack every so often. She is afraid to do anything about it as jobs are so hard to get.

That's the living end. I'm in shock. She should be sued.

jenny jinks

Vourney wrote: »

That's the living end. I'm in shock. She should be sued.

It is impossible to prove. Nobody would believe her. She would be styraight out the door with no reference if she tried to sue. She can't afford big legal fees either.