Sept 10 World Suicide Prevention Day

Otis Driftwood

Abi and anyone else that is reading,anon posting is available here.Anon posts are pre-moderated but are totally acceptable.This is a topic i thankfully havnt much experience with but im finding it a very insightful and thought provoking thread,to those that have contributed,I thank you.

tbh

speedboatchase wrote: »

I will do my part tomorrow by not killing myself

You've badly misjudged the tone of this thread. No more jokey comments please

CDfm

A bit that is not talked about is the support for families or what happens when a person gets out of hospital and treatment.

I know of one woman who commited suicide the day after being released from hospital into her mothers care - against her husbands wishes and there were issues of child abuse in her childhood. The inquest is still adjourned after 10 years.

A guy I knew also killed himself a few weeks after release from hospital 2 years ago.

So you cant really say that a person when released is ok but its a time they do need support.

These days I would like to think any of my friends could pick up the phone and call me.

Last year my son told my g/f and me about a psychotic episode a 19 year old friend of his had at a 3 day rock festival and how to deal with him and what or whether to discuss it with the guys parents.

In my mind thats the why there needs to be more awareness. If someone is hanging out with ordinary people doing ordinary things they pick up on and enjoy a normal life -three score and ten etc.

amacachi

The two suicides close to me weren't down to a lack of awareness, they were down to a lack of treatment available. One middle-aged man checked himself into a psychiatric facility (or tried) and was told after 2 days there was nothing they could do, 3 or 4 days later he did it. Another guy around 30 attempted suicide and was sent to the same place, released the next day and did it properly 3 or 4 days later. We can raise awareness and all that jazz but in the end there'll be more cases where awareness makes no difference than where it will make a difference.

CDfm

It seems harsh but you can't lock everyone up or pay for veryone.Ordinary people can do a lot more and by this I mean getting someone to a GP and looking in on them.

One of the issues these days is that people have a difficulty creating a sense of community and involvement. I have a good friend a very sucessful and dynamic guy and he does hospital visits to the terminally ill. One guy he interviewed for a job was surprised that it was the same bloke who had cleaned his uncles kitchen on the Saturday.

I was involved in a group for years and am less so now because of work commitments and personal life. It takes time. One of the groups I was involved with now has a professional staff which is 9 to 5 but it is the volunteers who make the difference. Like Abigayles friends -women do this stuff a lot better than men.

So amacachi - you have to ask if you are prepared to do anything and if you saw a similar situation arising what would you do or do differently.
.

amacachi

Abigayle wrote: »

I'm not passing doubt, but did they look? did they take it up conitnueously? combined therapy can stabilize a sufferer. I understand the person that says i 'give up though'... Im On 14 different pills a day for various connecting issues. each an everyone warn you on the label not to drive. Virtually everything in my life means I have to drive. So I delay my pills till I get things done.. but if I'd had a bad night before over someone.. I've tried it.

Do you mean the guys themselves or the doctors? First one I haven't any more specific knowledge of (and I'm not going to go asking :pac:), second one was sent from hospital and let out soon after. There wasn't much time for either to take up anything continuously before they did it.


I was lucky in that I managed to get past suicide ideation and half-hearted attempts etc. mostly without prescription drugs. Personally an illegal drug helped me a ridiculous amount indirectly whereas all prescription ones did were leave me distracted and constantly tired and sleeping very little. :pac: I never found talking to people to be particularly helpful either tbh, those who didn't understand made me feel worse about it (not on purpose) and those who did understand were as pathetic as I was.

CDfm

The story of Nigel Owens and the Men on the Ropes Campaign

This week, he has been fronting the Men on the Ropes campaign, backed by British Rail and Iarnród Éireann, which focuses on high suicide rates among young men.
Fourteen years have passed since Owens attempted suicide in his home town of Mynyddcerrig. A combination of chronic weight gain in his early 20s, subsequent steroid abuse and an internal struggle to understand, let alone accept, his homosexuality, led him to conclude he had no alternative.
.....................
He climbed Bancyddraenen Mountain where he took some pills. He drifted off before he acted out his intention to shoot himself and was fortunate to be found, comatose but alive.
“IT WAS A SECOND CHANCE. There is no doubt in my mind that I was going to take my own life. And if I hadn’t overdosed, I would have pulled the trigger.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0910/1224278563864.html

Samaratains, British Rail & Iarnroid Eireann began the Men on the Ropes campaign on Wedesday

<H3 class=ImmTextAlign_Left>*** PHOTOCALL & INTERVIEW OPPORTUNITY ***

What: Photo and interview opportunity at the launch event for the campaign: A boxing ring with boxer training with a team of Samaritans, during rush hour. With celebrity other key interview opportunities.
When & Where: Wednesday 8 September 8.30am – 10.30am at Waterloo Station concourse, London: between Paperchase and Bodyshop.
Interview Opportunity:
Former Premier League footballer Warren Aspinall, Welsh International Rugby Union referee Nigel Owens and the boxer featured in the posters, David White, all of whom will be speaking about their battle with their problems and how they fought through them.
http://www.samaritans.org/media_centre/latest_press_releases/men_on_the_ropes_-_uk.aspx#photocall

</H3>

jokettle

A few people have mentioned a lack of support for family and friends of those who have tried committing suicide or have actually done so. I agree more services need to be put in place for this, but in the meantime perhaps calling a helpline would be of some benefit.

Aware are well used to talking to people whose loved ones suffer from depression/manic depression. While aware is predominately about depression, they do deal with a certain amount of suicidal calls. So I don't think it would be completely inappropriate to have a chat with them. However, they are a listening service rather than an advice phoneline; perhaps keep that in mind.

There's also a suicide helpline called 1life (http://www.1life.ie/). I'm not hugely familiar with their setup but if it's in any way similar to aware then I'm sure they'd be more than happy to listen to the concerns of family and friends as well as those contemplating suicide. However, I'm not sure if they can give specific advice to f&f or if they just provide a listening service. Could be worth checking out though.

panda100

amacachi wrote: »

The two suicides close to me weren't down to a lack of awareness, they were down to a lack of treatment available.[ /QUOTE]

I do think it should be stressed that psychiatric treatments for depression and other mental disorders are not very effective at all. The human brain is so complex and affected by so many outside factors such as social environment, upbringing etc that meds really just are quite ineffective when it comes to mood disorders.

Latchy

I have read through the all the posts wish to say thanks to who all have posted for your contributions to the thread with your own personall expierence ,your pain and anguish and by doing so allowing us to see into and understand that bit better .Your insight and opinions into suicide are much appriciated in this very sensitive subject

I think it would be a fair assesment to say that most of us know of at least one person who has comitted suicide or attempted to do so and sadly some will have had family members who have done same .

In my own case ?? the thing that springs to mind for me in this complex subject is 'were to be begin ' but in saying as much would just like to say that I have expierenced depression and have entertained the thoughts at various times over the years of ending it ( with one failed attempt ) but it would require a long post with details to explain furthur as to my reasons for wanting to , so as this is my first post will keep it as short as possible for now .

Understanding what can make an individual want to take there own lifes is the key factor here which previous posters have explained , with chemical imbalance ,enviromental surroundings , personall life expierences, drug and alcohol just some of the factors involved ( with a combination of some or all .)

Also and the one thing that sticks out of course now due in most parts to is the effect the ecomonic downturn has had and is having to the amount of young and not so young people who feel they have no say or control in the direction their lifes are taking and just see a pointless existence ahead .

As for knowing people who have took their own lifes ?? Off top of my head looking back over roughly a 20 year period, I know of at least 12 people , most who if still alive would be in the mid to late 40s now who for various reasons decided to end their lives 'intentionally ( or had previously overdosed with intentions of dying but were resuscitated )

I will post again . Hugs to you all x

Rubik.

panda100 wrote: »

I do think it should be stressed that psychiatric treatments for depression and other mental disorders are not very effective at all. The human brain is so complex and affected by so many outside factors such as social environment, upbringing etc that meds really just are quite ineffective when it comes to mood disorders.

This can be the case for a significant number of people, but the majority of those who have major depressive episodes make a full recovery. Saying that psychiatric treatments are not very effective implies seeking help is pointless. I don't believe that to be true.

CDfm

Rubik. wrote: »

This can be the case for a significant number of people, but the majority of those who have major depressive episodes make a full recovery. Saying that psychiatric treatments are not very effective implies seeking help is pointless. I don't believe that to be true.

+1 and they do recover and are not walking wounded either

irishh_bob

demonspawn wrote: »

For one, you have no idea why the vast majority of people commit suicide so don't start making baseless assumptions.

I have been diagnosed with clinical depression because of events in my childhood and subsequent events in my early adulthood. I was prescribed medication that made me feel like a zombie so I chose to stop taking it and try to deal with my issues. Some people have issues that will never be resolved, or they don't see the point of living life as a medicated zombie, and so they decide that the best option is suicide.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

+1 , in fact its very stoic , much more dignified than ending up some monotonous bore who spends his entire miserable existance popping happy pills and spending an hour each week lieing on a couch while spilling your guts to some disinterested shrink , most of the opinion spouted about suicide is cliched drivel , the worst cliche of all being that suicide is a cowardly act when by any logical ananylisis , its an incredibly brave act

CDfm

An interesting link - lots of people face the same problems without self harm or suicide attempts see how open their keynote speaker was to ours.

<H3 class=jhl>Renowned author talks about suicide prevention

.topPhoto, .photo {width:440px;} Author Scott Chisholm spoke about his father's suicide to Ottawa's Suicide Prevention Coalition, Friday, September 10, 2010.

Updated: Sat Sep. 11 2010 11:32:11 AM

ctvottawa.ca

It's something very few people talk about, but suicide likely affects someone you know. Friday was World Suicide Prevention Day.

Ottawa's Suicide Prevention Coalition invited author and photographer Scott Chisholm to tell his story. His father shot himself when Scott was 16 years old.

Now he is compiling a book of photographs and stories from survivor families.

He says the key to prevention is to talk.



"Not talking about it isn't working," he says, "We need to create a dialogue that will get rid of the stigma because the stigma is what kills."

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100911/OTT_suicide_100911/20100911/?hub=OttawaHome

</H3>

Minister reveals suicide heartbreak
(UKPA) – 2 days ago
Health Minister Mary Harney has revealed her devastation after losing a friend to suicide.
Opening a conference on suicide prevention, Ms Harney warned that appearances can be deceiving when it comes to people in crisis.
The Minister told international experts that she first came in contact with the consequences of suicide when she was studying in Trinity.
Copyright © 2010 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iK1-x4fXVq90BTEpmD3lmXsVCo4A

EDIT

From Irish Bob above+1 , in fact its very stoic , much more dignified than ending up some monotonous bore who spends his entire miserable existance popping happy pills and spending an hour each week lieing on a couch while spilling your guts to some disinterested shrink , most of the opinion spouted about suicide is cliched drivel , the worst cliche of all being that suicide is a cowardly act when by any logical ananylisis , its an incredibly brave act

I dont agree Irish Bob.

Most people tackle the same monotonous boring existence except some people dont have the skills too. Why shouldnt they have them?

Fox McCloud

I've actually been thinking recently is there a suicide prevention/awarness day..

I think a campaign encouraging men to talk to each other about suicide could work.
Something like, turn to your mate and talk. Have three taglines/questions to open a conversation like Have you ever considered suicide? Do you ever feel depressed? and Do you have someone to talk to?..

I know men, esp older.. younger.. and middle aged men would be seriously embarassed to begin a discussion like that with there friends/brothers/sons but a really forceful campaign would put the idea out there thats its normal to talk.

panda100

Rubik. wrote: »

This can be the case for a significant number of people, but the majority of those who have major depressive episodes make a full recovery. Saying that psychiatric treatments are not very effective implies seeking help is pointless. I don't believe that to be true.

I guess I don't believe that seeking help for depressive disorders should inherently mean seeking pscyhaitric help.I think that at the end of the day a better quality of life for all will radically alter our suicide rate not psychatric treatment.

CDfm

Its priorities -most people think that wanting to commit suicide is not normal. Even suicidal people think that.

The idea that good mental health is not promoted is a bit silly.

For example, person who stays in bed all day and does not go to work has a problem.

So I do not know why there is so much secrecy about the symptoms and help available !!!!!!!!!!

irishh_bob

CDfm wrote: »

Its priorities -most people think that wanting to commit suicide is not normal. Even suicidal people think that.

The idea that good mental health is not promoted is a bit silly.

For example, person who stays in bed all day and does not go to work has a problem.

So I do not know why there is so much secrecy about the symptoms and help available !!!!!!!!!!

can you not see how some people would see dignity in committing suicide rather than acknowledging to everyone that they had broken down inside , once you have to open up on that level to someone ( even a doctor ) , you loose respect for yourself and can never get it back , its an emasculation experience and one which changes a man forever , regardless of what people might say , no one respects a man who is weak or emotionally crippled

CDfm

irishh_bob wrote: »

can you not see how some people would see dignity in committing suicide rather than acknowledging to everyone that they had broken down inside , once you have to open up on that level to someone ( even a doctor ) , you loose respect for yourself and can never get it back , its an emasculation experience and one which changes a man forever , regardless of what people might say , no one respects a man who is weak or emotionally crippled

ah no I cant see the dignity in it.

can't you see that there is a lot to be achieved and happiness to be had by someone who gets on with it and does it.

whats wrong with with going to a doctor with a problem -perhaps its the right thing to do.

Novella

irishh_bob wrote: »

can you not see how some people would see dignity in committing suicide rather than acknowledging to everyone that they had broken down inside , once you have to open up on that level to someone ( even a doctor ) , you loose respect for yourself and can never get it back , its an emasculation experience and one which changes a man forever , regardless of what people might say , no one respects a man who is weak or emotionally crippled

Y'know I hate posting about this, but I've been in places in my life where I genuinely thought I'd be better off dead. I've dropped outta college, left work and spent weeks and months, even years doing absolutely nothing other than being miserable.

I have acknowledged my problems now though. It's not a secret anymore. Have I lost respect for myself? No, not even a tiny bit. If anything I'm proud of myself. I'm proud because my illness has not overcome me. Cheesy? Probably... but it has been a huge uphill battle, and sure, I still have down days, but it is very, very rare that I allow these to render me useless and bed-bound.

Do I consider myself weak or emotionally crippled? No, the exact opposite in fact. I know I'm not weak. Coming from where I was to where I am now wasn't easy and it did take strength and determination. Am I emotionally crippled? No! Having experienced various different kinds of therapy, I deal with emotions really well these days.

I'll probably always be on medication, and I guess I'm more inclined to radical mood changes than the next person, but I have got my life under control at this stage and for that reason, I'm thankful I'm still here. I'm thankful because life excites me now.

I hope that those experiencing depression or any other kind of mental illness don't feel that they'll have lost the respect of anyone by admitting so. I, for one, thoroughly admire the courage it takes.

Snowie

irishh_bob wrote: »

can you not see how some people would see dignity in committing suicide rather than acknowledging to everyone that they had broken down inside , once you have to open up on that level to someone ( even a doctor ) , you loose respect for yourself and can never get it back , its an emasculation experience and one which changes a man forever , regardless of what people might say , no one respects a man who is weak or emotionally crippled

I see were your coming from but an un-confident man only has one thing pride. Generally if you decide to seek help Your taking the bull bye the horns for one reason.

your sick of feeling the way you do....

Helplessness of the same recurring thoughts.. of social inadequacy or what ever the issue is genrally your sick of feeling the way you do....

But you do make a valid point that may have been taken up wrong...

irishh_bob

Novella wrote: »

Y'know I hate posting about this, but I've been in places in my life where I genuinely thought I'd be better off dead. I've dropped outta college, left work and spent weeks and months, even years doing absolutely nothing other than being miserable.

I have acknowledged my problems now though. It's not a secret anymore. Have I lost respect for myself? No, not even a tiny bit. If anything I'm proud of myself. I'm proud because my illness has not overcome me. Cheesy? Probably... but it has been a huge uphill battle, and sure, I still have down days, but it is very, very rare that I allow these to render me useless and bed-bound.

Do I consider myself weak or emotionally crippled? No, the exact opposite in fact. I know I'm not weak. Coming from where I was to where I am now wasn't easy and it did take strength and determination. Am I emotionally crippled? No! Having experienced various different kinds of therapy, I deal with emotions really well these days.

I'll probably always be on medication, and I guess I'm more inclined to radical mood changes than the next person, but I have got my life under control at this stage and for that reason, I'm thankful I'm still here. I'm thankful because life excites me now.

I hope that those experiencing depression or any other kind of mental illness don't feel that they'll have lost the respect of anyone by admitting so. I, for one, thoroughly admire the courage it takes.

im sorry as i know you didnt choose to become depressed but i dont believe someone who needs to be on medication can be regarded as emotionally sound

irishh_bob

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

I see were your coming from but an un-confident man only has one thing pride. Generally if you decide to seek help Your taking the bull bye the horns for one reason.

your sick of feeling the way you do....

Helplessness of the same recurring thoughts.. of social inadequacy or what ever the issue is genrally your sick of feeling the way you do....

But you do make a valid point that may have been taken up wrong...

confidence is a subjective thing , a very well educated person who is highly articulate will come across as more confident than someone who has little education whether that is the case or not but deep down the former may have a lot less pride than the latter , confidence can be feigned , pride cannot , pride once lost cannot be restored for the simple reason that we dont forget , once you,ve falled down , the memory is always there so you are never the same again , you are always second best to what you once were

CDfm

irishh_bob wrote: »

im sorry as i know you didnt choose to become depressed but i dont believe someone who needs to be on medication can be regarded as emotionally sound

Balls said the queen if I had them I'd be king.

If someone has a chemical imbalance that needs a supplement and they make that decision to improve the quality of their lives well thats good and it would come accross as a very balanced decision to me.

By the same token a diabetic taking insulin or someone with erectile dysfunction taking viagra.

irishh_bob wrote: »

confidence is a subjective thing , a very well educated person who is highly articulate will come across as more confident than someone who has little education whether that is the case or not but deep down the former may have a lot less pride than the latter , confidence can be feigned , pride cannot , pride once lost cannot be restored for the simple reason that we dont forget , once you,ve falled down , the memory is always there so you are never the same again , you are always second best to what you once were

I know people who have overcome eating disorders etc. I know a great guy who overcame childhood abuse via CBT. A schoolfriend of mine who did not take help commited suicide.

Things that gives someone a confidence boost are good. I work in sales and training and experience hones a persons instincts.So does repeating successful behaviour.

So no there is no predestiny for people who get depressed that they are stuck -they can have the same ambitions and goals. And why not?

Novella

irishh_bob wrote: »

im sorry as i know you didnt choose to become depressed but i dont believe someone who needs to be on medication can be regarded as emotionally sound

I have bi-polar disorder, so as it is a long-term illness, it is necessary for me to be on medication. Tbh, I'd consider myself, if anything, to be more emotionally sound than the average person. I'm highly aware of situations and scenarios that trigger negative reactions in myself. I can recognise a shift in my mood. Due to the fact that I monitor my illness very carefully, I'd imagine my understanding of emotions etc., to be better than normal.

Of course, it wasn't always like this, and maybe it won't be in the future but at the moment, I would definitely regard myself as 'emotionally sound'.

If a person has epilepsy or diabetes, they take medication, they go for check up's, their illness can be controlled and they can live normal and fulfilling lives. While treatment of mental illnesses probably is more difficult, imo the same rules apply.

Rubik.

irishh_bob wrote: »

can you not see how some people would see dignity in committing suicide rather than acknowledging to everyone that they had broken down inside , once you have to open up on that level to someone ( even a doctor ) , you loose respect for yourself and can never get it back , its an emasculation experience and one which changes a man forever , regardless of what people might say , no one respects a man who is weak or emotionally crippled

I think you summed up why men in particular find it so difficult to admit to mental health problems and why it is still very much a taboo subject. The whole idea behind increasing awareness is to challenge the notion that being mentally ill is somehow shameful, it isn't. 1 in 4 people will experience some kind of mental health problem in the course of a year. It is very much part of the human condition.

irishh_bob

Novella wrote: »

I have bi-polar disorder, so as it is a long-term illness, it is necessary for me to be on medication. Tbh, I'd consider myself, if anything, to be more emotionally sound than the average person. I'm highly aware of situations and scenarios that trigger negative reactions in myself. I can recognise a shift in my mood. Due to the fact that I monitor my illness very carefully, I'd imagine my understanding of emotions etc., to be better than normal.

Of course, it wasn't always like this, and maybe it won't be in the future but at the moment, I would definitely regard myself as 'emotionally sound'.

If a person has epilepsy or diabetes, they take medication, they go for check up's, their illness can be controlled and they can live normal and fulfilling lives. While treatment of mental illnesses probably is more difficult, imo the same rules apply.

i think its quite spurious to compare someone with diabetes to someone who is emotionally fragile , diabetes is something tangible which as a disease is universally understood and treated in the same way , different story with anything to do with depression etc , thier are many schools of thought when it comes to that area , i heard a dutch psychiatricst on the radio not that long ago who believes giving people medicine for depression related conditions is tantamount to torture , he doesnt believe in the notion of a chemical imbalance and claims that a persons mental wellbeing is entirely down to thier surrounding enviroment , past or present , this guy believes medication ( anti depressants etc ) are pushed by doctors as a quick fix and that thier is such a huge industry built around unhappiness that the effectivness of theese drugs is completley over estimated

as i said , a broken mind is not the same as a broken leg

CDfm

Irishbob - I think there is a huge difference between someone who is dangerous and psychotic and someone who has clinical depression.

People can have a chemical imbalance from drug or substance abuse too.

Some drugs are overused -the Rolling Stones had a song Mothers Little Helpers about Valium abuse in the 60's.

Maybe the guy is right and it is a quick fix , but try to change environmental factors by giving someone a job he wants, house or his wife back or supplying counselling to all those needing it.

I suspect the Dutch Guys view is one extreme and maybe antidepressants are over prescribed.

Depression is not the same as unhappiness.

Its not a broken leg -OK -but mental health issues are treatable and when handled properly lots of sufferers function properly.

Rubik. wrote: »

I think you summed up why men in particular find it so difficult to admit to mental health problems and why it is still very much a taboo subject. The whole idea behind increasing awareness is to challenge the notion that being mentally ill is somehow shameful, it isn't. 1 in 4 people will experience some kind of mental health problem in the course of a year. It is very much part of the human condition.

There is nothing shameful about being ill. Even football teams use sports psychologists.

There is a huge difference between going to your doctor and publically broadcasting it. Most people keep their health issues private and broadcasting them is not a good idea.

Going to a GP is in a different league. Anyway, I have a few close friends who I could have a whinge too when I have a mind to -thats my point.Some people do not and should use the facilities/services available.

Snowie

irishh_bob wrote: »

im sorry as i know you didnt choose to become depressed but i dont believe someone who needs to be on medication can be regarded as emotionally sound

I can see you skepticism Your making good points..
But generally what threipy/counciling does is teach you how to deal with your emotions, in a more constructive and focussed approach to dealing with
what ever the issue is?

genrally when your on medication it keeps you in a good place... you dont really feel the strength of emotions. so its like an internal sheild.

irishh_bob wrote: »

confidence is a subjective thing , a very well educated person who is highly articulate will come across as more confident than someone who has little education whether that is the case or not but deep down the former may have a lot less pride than the latter , confidence can be feigned , pride cannot , pride once lost cannot be restored for the simple reason that we dont forget , once you,ve falled down , the memory is always there so you are never the same again , you are always second best to what you once were

Being honest if some one really articulate is talking to me I'm thinking to my self. This persons using big words, is it to impress me? or is it to in some way to show how intelgent they are....
Im not thinking wow hes confident because he can use big words I'd be more likely to take the piss out of the person for it..

At one stage of my life I was a chef, I tuck a lot of pride in my work. but with pride comes, the inability to take something called critisim ?

With pride you always have to know whats best.

when your confident about something you do. You can take the critisim and use it to your advantage thats why I said pride is week because its a fact.

so once I fall down, thats it its happened, but to any one with ahave a chilling for a brain they see one thing the experenced gained bye it.

that is how we learn in life, That is how we go forward with in life.. Not going oh it happened Im gonna hide away from socity in case it happens again...

Novella

irishh_bob wrote: »

i think its quite spurious to compare someone with diabetes to someone who is emotionally fragile , diabetes is something tangible which as a disease is universally understood and treated in the same way , different story with anything to do with depression etc , thier are many schools of thought when it comes to that area , i heard a dutch psychiatricst on the radio not that long ago who believes giving people medicine for depression related conditions is tantamount to torture , he doesnt believe in the notion of a chemical imbalance and claims that a persons mental wellbeing is entirely down to thier surrounding enviroment , past or present , this guy believes medication ( anti depressants etc ) are pushed by doctors as a quick fix and that thier is such a huge industry built around unhappiness that the effectivness of theese drugs is completley over estimated

as i said , a broken mind is not the same as a broken leg

Tbh, I think a lot of the stigma attached to mental illness comes from people making such a huge separation between it and any other kind of illness.

I'm not really sure how to respond to your argument involving the Dutch psychiatrist. I mean, anyone can believe anything they want, can't they? That doesn't make it true. Anti-depressants have been proven effective... they've been effective for me. I wouldn't call them a quick fix at all. If only there was a quick fix for depression!

Imo, anti-depressants are too readily available these days and that's a problem. They're prescribed to people suffering from grief, who are just a bit sad. It's perfectly normal to grieve, it's normal to be sad sometimes. That's my only issue with doctors and anti-d's.

A broken mind is not the same as a broken leg, no, but they're both broken and need to be fixed and can be fixed so in that way, they are similar.