Padraig Harrington.....2015 Honda Classic Champion

soundsham

from a promising position to another tumble down the field,he seems to be doing this regularly so far this year,it must be driving him nuts

sector

awful to see, that is if we could [grrr, CBS!]

But ye he's got the making of getting it going only to die away badly.

WHIP IT!

Horrible habit to get in to... It doesn't matter how well Padraig starts a tournament at the minute - the more this happens, the more he'll wait for it and almost expect it to happen. A dangerous state of mind on a golf course that!

ssbob

sector wrote: »

awful to see, that is if we could [grrr, CBS!]

But ye he's got the making of getting it going only to die away badly.

I suspect we will know more about Paddys game after next week and especially how his season will go, he normally gears up for the big events.

I reckon he is working on something this week(I hope).

SSK

ssbob wrote: »

I suspect we will know more about Paddys game after next week and especially how his season will go, he normally gears up for the big events.

I reckon he is working on something this week(I hope).

Honestly I wouldn't be holding out too much hope. He hasn't been able to drive the ball straight for the best part of 18 months now, and that's not something that will fix itself overnight regardless of what he is working on.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see him arresting his slide down the rankings with the way he is playing currently.

Aidric

This trend started a long way back now and shows no sign of changing. It's sad to watch this disintegration.

Trampas

It is terrible to watch. Maybe he should have put the clubs away for a few months over the winter and not even think about golf but I don't think PH could ever do that.

Maybe he needs a complete change in staff.

His confidence must be at an all time low no matter what he will say to the press

Parky2010

Relax lads, he's having a good thursday and fridays just the weekend letting him down, and its only start of season. He gets two more days right and he's up there winning things again!

L.O.F.T

Parky2010 wrote: »

Relax lads, he's having a good thursday and fridays just the weekend letting him down, and its only start of season. He gets two more days right and he's up there winning things again!

Delusional and optimistic. Harrington will never stop tinkering with his swing. After winning three major titles he still goes and changes a winning formula.

In his own words:12 changes this year alone,2011!!!

I changed the actual grips on my golf club. Most people would think ‘well, what’s that’. I have a reminder in my grip – I’ve taken it out. I’ve gone to round grips. That’s a big, big change.

“I’ve knocked all the clubs a degree flat – that’s a little change.

“I have weakened my grip, lowered my hands a bit and pushed them a bit further forward … small things.

“Probably the biggest one (and this is partly why I’ve changed these other things), I’ve changed my trigger to take the club away in my routine. I used take the club away from a moving position. I now take the club away from a static position.

“Part of that, I used to have a big squat to take the club away, so that’s gone. There’s a little one. I’d love to get it all gone but it’s hard to change your trigger, full stop.

“I’m taking the club away without my hips so there’s a much smaller hip turn – a much bigger coil but a smaller hip turn.

“Obviously, that changes my plane in the back swing.

“I’ve changed my chin position at the top of my backswing. I used to try and swing my shoulder under my chin, so I’d poke my head out to do it, which we think has contributed to my neck issues. So now I’m tucking my head in at the top of my backswing.

“The trigger probably is the biggest thing. Through impact I’m going back to squatting quite a bit at the start of my downswing, as I used to. So I’m going back to that.

“I’m going back to trying to get my chest more down through impact to get my hands lower through impact and reduce the lateral through impact.

“From seven feet out I probably was 150th in every putting stat so I’ve changed my putting routine as well.

“I’m not standing off the ball when I’m taking my practice putts. I’m practice putting over the ball … when you see a raw beginner, they often do that. When they take a practice putt, they lift it up and do it over the top of the ball. I’m doing that so when I put the putter back down, I’m not adjusting anything. I used to line up and get a feel for the putt, which you see a lot of guys do, then I’d take the putter inside and try a practice putt. But when I take the putter inside, I move my eye line, so the practice putts I’m getting a feel for are not the same as the putts I actually have. So I’m not changing my eye line.”

SSK

Parky2010 wrote: »

Relax lads, he's having a good thursday and fridays just the weekend letting him down, and its only start of season. He gets two more days right and he's up there winning things again!

Now I don't profess to be an expert or anything but I don't see him being able to put 4 rounds together with the way he's driving the ball. All the commentators and analysts talk about the top players having swings that hold up under pressure. Harrington's swing seems a million miles away from that at the moment under normal tournament conditions and I don't see it improving should he get into proper contention in a tournament.

What I will say is that his irons and short game is still very sharp but he's out of position so often that he's scrambling to make pars and not birdies.

Parky2010

L.O.F.T wrote: »

Delusional and optimistic. Harrington will never stop tinkering with his swing. After winning three major titles he still goes and changes a winning formula.

In his own words:12 changes this year alone,2011!!!

I changed the actual grips on my golf club. Most people would think ‘well, what’s that’. I have a reminder in my grip – I’ve taken it out. I’ve gone to round grips. That’s a big, big change.

“I’ve knocked all the clubs a degree flat – that’s a little change.

“I have weakened my grip, lowered my hands a bit and pushed them a bit further forward … small things.

“Probably the biggest one (and this is partly why I’ve changed these other things), I’ve changed my trigger to take the club away in my routine. I used take the club away from a moving position. I now take the club away from a static position.

“Part of that, I used to have a big squat to take the club away, so that’s gone. There’s a little one. I’d love to get it all gone but it’s hard to change your trigger, full stop.

“I’m taking the club away without my hips so there’s a much smaller hip turn – a much bigger coil but a smaller hip turn.

“Obviously, that changes my plane in the back swing.

“I’ve changed my chin position at the top of my backswing. I used to try and swing my shoulder under my chin, so I’d poke my head out to do it, which we think has contributed to my neck issues. So now I’m tucking my head in at the top of my backswing.

“The trigger probably is the biggest thing. Through impact I’m going back to squatting quite a bit at the start of my downswing, as I used to. So I’m going back to that.

“I’m going back to trying to get my chest more down through impact to get my hands lower through impact and reduce the lateral through impact.

“From seven feet out I probably was 150th in every putting stat so I’ve changed my putting routine as well.

“I’m not standing off the ball when I’m taking my practice putts. I’m practice putting over the ball … when you see a raw beginner, they often do that. When they take a practice putt, they lift it up and do it over the top of the ball. I’m doing that so when I put the putter back down, I’m not adjusting anything. I used to line up and get a feel for the putt, which you see a lot of guys do, then I’d take the putter inside and try a practice putt. But when I take the putter inside, I move my eye line, so the practice putts I’m getting a feel for are not the same as the putts I actually have. So I’m not changing my eye line.”

Its only febuary too, very rarely even when he was winning majors did he start his seasons winning. Every golfer changes to get better, its what they're all like just for some reason Padraig gets highlighted for doing so

Parky2010

SSK wrote: »

Now I don't profess to be an expert or anything but I don't see him being able to put 4 rounds together with the way he's driving the ball. All the commentators and analysts talk about the top players having swings that hold up under pressure. Harrington's swing seems a million miles away from that at the moment under normal tournament conditions and I don't see it improving should he get into proper contention in a tournament.

What I will say is that his irons and short game is still very sharp but he's out of position so often that he's scrambling to make pars and not birdies.

He really isn't that far off, even when he won majors he was never the straightest hitter in the world. Maybe i'm just optimistic about it but I think he will have a good year when it comes to big tournaments

L.O.F.T

Parky2010 wrote: »

He really isn't that far off, even when he won majors he was never the straightest hitter in the world. Maybe i'm just optimistic about it but I think he will have a good year when it comes to big tournaments

Parky he will only frustrate you(and me and most of Ireland). Just when you think he's found his rhythm and shoots 65 / 66 he then throws a 74 / 75 in when the rest of the contending field is in the low 60's. Next week at the match play will be a huge test to see where his game is and my gut says he wont get past the first round.

Parky2010

I know what you mean L.O.F.T been following him for a few years now and I don't think theres a more frustrating player. If the draw stays the same and he has Ogilvy I see little chance of him getting through Geoff.

Martin567

L.O.F.T wrote: »

Parky he will only frustrate you(and me and most of Ireland). Just when you think he's found his rhythm and shoots 65 / 66 he then throws a 74 / 75 in when the rest of the contending field is in the low 60's. Next week at the match play will be a huge test to see where his game is and my gut says he wont get past the first round.

Of all the events in the year, next week's is the least likely to show where anyone's game is at. 18 hole matchplay is hugely random for players at this level. For the few players who make it to the weekend, it will have been a useful week. However, half the field will have gone home before Thursday, the day all other events start. A player could shoot the second best score in the entire field on Wednesday and lose or shoot the second worst score and win. Next week will tell you very little.

Regarding Padraig Harrington frustrating you, the biggest reason for this is the continued focus and expectation on him in Ireland due to the success he has had in his career. Look at Geoff Ogilvy, his opponent on Wednesday. I think he is by far the most talented of the Australian players around at the moment. He won his first major nearly five years ago and hasn't seriously challenged to win another since. At his best he looks brilliant but tends to disappear for long periods. He won the season opener in the US last year for the second year in a row and looked set to have a great year. He barely had a Top 10 for the rest of 2010 and fell outside the Top 40 before winning the Australian Open in December. I would imagine if you were a fan of his and followed him every week expecting him to contend that you might describe him as being frustrating also. My point is that pretty much every player will frustrate you a lot if you follow him for 30 or more weeks of every year.

Regarding Padraig, of course it's disappointing that he is unable to produce his best on a consistent basis or even to put four good rounds together. He'll be 40 later this year so it's possible that his best years are now behind him. I hope not and I wouldn't write him off just yet. As for why he couldn't "leave things alone" when he won the three majors, it seems to me that that is just who he is. When he started out as a professional, the conventional wisdom in Irish golf is that he would be doing very well to make a living on the European Tour. He turned himself into one of the best players in the world precisely because of the type of person he is. These very qualities are the reason why he continued to try to change after winning the majors. To do otherwise would have required a personality/character transplant.

L.O.F.T

Martin567 wrote: »

Of all the events in the year, next week's is the least likely to show where anyone's game is at. 18 hole matchplay is hugely random for players at this level

Martin that is a farcical statement to make and matchplay is not random. Harrington will beat his opponent if he plays better than him and there is nothing random about that. His swing and mindset will be tested on every hole as each hole will have its own pressures and will require a shot or putt to better his opponents.

Martin567 wrote: »

For the few players who make it to the weekend, it will have been a useful week. However, half the field will have gone home before Thursday, the day all other events start

Its just a different day. Players go home Friday evenings if they play rubbish in a stroke play event. This matchplay event is no different, you play poor you pack your bags.

Martin567 wrote: »

Regarding Padraig, of course it's disappointing that he is unable to produce his best on a consistent basis or even to put four good rounds together. He'll be 40 later this year so it's possible that his best years are now behind him

His constant necessity to change is what has him in the form he is in now and has been for the last 3 years. He changed his swing when he reached the pinnacle of golf not once but a three time major champion. He had reached a level where he could consistently produce top class golf but he went about attempting to reach a level which he has not achieved or produced. The fact is since he won his majors he has been on a consistent and downward slump thanks to his tinkering.

Martin567

L.O.F.T., I'm not sure if you've deliberately chosen to misinterpret what I was saying or if you genuinely didn't get it. This event is very random. You will go home after day 1 if you haven't played as well as your opponent. This won't give any indication as to how you've played relative to the rest of the field, as in strokeplay. A player could be -6 or -7 on Wednesday and still lose. Another player could be +3 or +4 and win. I know this is simply the nature of matchplay but you have to look a little deeper if you're going to draw any conclusions from it. From what you seem to be saying, you will be able to look at the results and decide that the 32 players who win in Round 1 will have played well and the 32 who lost played poorly. Clearly, this will not be the case.

The random element is who your opponent is on a given day. Sergio Garcia made the semi-finals last year playing poorly. In strokeplay, your overall position at the end will reflect your overall performance. This will not always be the case in matchplay. If you look at the 32 matches on Wednesday, I would bet that very few people could pick the winner in more than half of them.

As for Padraig, his current form may well be caused by his "tinkering" but what is your point? Read my earlier post, that is what he does. He is not the type who could ever stop "tinkering".

KKmanok

Guys for me there is a lot of uninformed talk regarding Padraig – I’m a huge an honest fan of his for years and follow him in detail whenever I can, the fact is when PH won his last significant title (the 2008 PGA) he admitted, and I quote him after the tournament “I hit some of the wildest golf shouts ever seen on a golf course” so Padraig thought hey if I can control my drive then I’ll be the best around – the problem is he reconstructed his swing in 2009 and neglected his short game – admittedly he is not driving fantastic today but the main difference between Padddy 2011 and Paddy 2008 is his short game – if you don’t believe me just check shot tracker – how many putts inside 10 feet has paddy missed in this tournament?

Trampas

PH stats this year

http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/02/07/66/stats

Martin567

KKmanok wrote: »

Guys for me there is a lot of uninformed talk regarding Padraig – I’m a huge an honest fan of his for years and follow him in detail whenever I can, the fact is when PH won his last significant title (the 2008 PGA) he admitted, and I quote him after the tournament “I hit some of the wildest golf shouts ever seen on a golf course” so Padraig thought hey if I can control my drive then I’ll be the best around – the problem is he reconstructed his swing in 2009 and neglected his short game – admittedly he is not driving fantastic today but the main difference between Padddy 2011 and Paddy 2008 is his short game – if you don’t believe me just check shot tracker – how many putts inside 10 feet has paddy missed in this tournament?

I think you're correct in this. Early in yesterday's round, he missed from inside 10 feet on four successive holes. It was later in the round that he hit a few wild drives and paid the price. If he had holed the earlier putts, he would have moved close to the leaders, his confidence would have been higher and the bad shots in the second half of the round might not have happened.

Last year, the Irish Open was by far his best event of the season on the European Tour. He hit a lot of wild shots that week but his short game was brilliant. There must be a lesson there.

One really noticeable thing is the number of 7's or worse he is getting on Par 5's. Surely if he just played them to leave himself a wedge for his third shot on the longer ones like Zach Johnson, his scoring would be far better.

mr.mickels

Aidric wrote: »

This trend started a long way back now and shows no sign of changing. It's sad to watch this disintegration.

Yes, very sad, and he has only won over €20million in Europe, plus worldwide earnings plus umpteen more millions sponsorship, a fine career with 3 majors and a nice family to console himself and will never need to do a days work for the rest. How can he go on like this. Very sad. All those hundreds of thousands who lost their jobs and think they have it tough could take a look at Harringtons golf swing and would realise things are never bad as they seem. There is always someone worse off than yourself. I think I will ask the PP to say a special Mass for him.

Martin567

Trampas wrote: »

PH stats this year

http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/02/07/66/stats

I'm not sure what your views are but these stats would seem to back up what KKmanok was saying. Padraig was never near the top of driving accuracy or GIR stats. His short game and putting were always the key. If you look down beyond the obvious stats, you will see a few interesting things.

Thus far in 2011, Padraig is only 99th in scrambling from > 30 yards with only a 25% success rate. He is 1st in putting from inside 5 feet with 100% success. However, he is 165th in putting from between 5 & 10 feet with only 42% success. This seems like an amazing difference and is definitely a bit of a score killer. He is also 3rd in putts holed from over 20 feet. It is the middle distance putts that he is not holing enough of at the moment.

SSK

mr.mickels wrote: »

Yes, very sad, and he has only won over €20million in Europe, plus worldwide earnings plus umpteen more millions sponsorship, a fine career with 3 majors and a nice family to console himself and will never need to do a days work for the rest. How can he go on like this. Very sad. All those hundreds of thousands who lost their jobs and think they have it tough could take a look at Harringtons golf swing and would realise things are never bad as they seem. There is always someone worse off than yourself. I think I will ask the PP to say a special Mass for him.

It's sad to see a man who was at the peak of the game struggle in such a way. I don't see what his earnings prior to now, his majors or indeed his family have to do with that.

PH stats this year

http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/02/07/66/stats

Total driving (taking into account distance and accuracy) was 142nd in 2010 and is 185th this year. That tells the bulk of the story for me.

He was 6th in putts per round in 2010 and 22nd this year. His putting might have been poor this week but is in no way the main cause of his struggles.

KKmanok

Look all I'm saying is, PH strength was never his ability of the tee but what has deserted him over the last 24 months has been his short game, when his short game has been good (e.g. the Irish open last year) he has contended. Remember what he did off the tee in his first Major win in the B. open 2007 (18th final round) but it was his up and down that got him into the playoff - It just frustrates me that people are associating P.H current woes to his driving ability - this in my opinion is ill-informed bullsh.t

SSK

KKmanok wrote: »

Look all I'm saying is, PH strength was never his ability of the tee but what has deserted him over the last 24 months has been his short game, when his short game has been good (e.g. the Irish open last year) he has contended. Remember what he did off the tee in his first Major win in the B. open 2007 (18th final round) but it was his up and down that got him into the playoff - It just frustrates me that people are associating P.H current woes to his driving ability - this in my opinion is ill-informed bullsh.t

But all the changes in his swing since his major wins seem to have been geared towards rectifying his driving which to my untrained eye anyway has actually dis-improved.

From watching him over the last couple of years (and anybody who's been following him will corroborate), a major characteristic of his rounds have been bogies and doubles at inopportune times in a round due to bad drives. Take the 1st hole today, 12th yesterday and the 13th on Friday, 6 shots dropped due to terrible drives. Its not so much that he's missing fairways its that he's missing them by miles. It must be killing his confidence more than anything.

Personally I don't think its realistic for any player to expect to continue to contend at the top of the game while being so reliant on scrambling and Harrington recognised that after his 08 successes.

KKmanok

I remember Greg Allen stating on the Saturday of Padraig’s first Open win in 2007 that "he would need to cut out double bogies and bogies on Par 5's" if he was to contend (as I recall he boogied or doubled late Saturday evening) and 24 hours later he was open Champ - look he frustrates the crap out of me but he was always inconsistent off the tee but his problem over the past 2 years has been his scrambling - off the tee he is not as bad as people would have you believe

Martin567

SSK wrote: »

But all the changes in his swing since his major wins seem to have been geared towards rectifying his driving which to my untrained eye anyway has actually dis-improved.

From watching him over the last couple of years (and anybody who's been following him will corroborate), a major characteristic of his rounds have been bogies and doubles at inopportune times in a round due to bad drives. Take the 1st hole today, 12th yesterday and the 13th on Friday, 6 shots dropped due to terrible drives. Its not so much that he's missing fairways its that he's missing them by miles. It must be killing his confidence more than anything.

Personally I don't think its realistic for any player to expect to continue to contend at the top of the game while being so reliant on scrambling and Harrington recognised that after his 08 successes.

Seve was the best player in the world for most of the 80s while being pretty reliant on scrambling so I wouldn't agree with you on that. I know he was past his best by his mid 30s but I think his back was the biggest factor in that. He was one of the best players in the world for about 15 years without ever being the straightest off the tee.

I do agree about Padraig having at least a couple of really bad drives every round. They are causing damage and this is having a big knock-on effect on his confidence. I think his short game is not as sharp as 2008 but hopefully it will come back. The confidence gained from an improved short game could also help his driving.

Trampas

PH stats updated.

I think it only had the AT&T on them.

foxyboxer

I think Paddy simply needs to fall in love with the game again. He seems to me to be a little too analytical (triggers? grips?). He's not under the kind of pressure felt when striving to retain his tour card, he does not NEED to earn a living from the game anymore.

What he needs to do is enjoy the game again.

Reminds me of what Ben Hogan once said "People used to say I used to beat my brains out by practicing so much, but I enjoyed every minute of it."

Harrington's demeanour to me suggests he's not enjoying himself anymore.

ssbob

foxyboxer wrote: »

I think Paddy simply needs to fall in love with the game again. He seems to me to be a little too analytical (triggers? grips?). He's not under the kind of pressure felt when striving to retain his tour card, he does not NEED to earn a living from the game anymore.

What he needs to do is enjoy the game again.

Reminds me of what Ben Hogan once said "People used to say I used to beat my brains out by practicing so much, but I enjoyed every minute of it."

Harrington's demeanour to me suggests he's not enjoying himself anymore.

I don't know foxy, I think he gets more enjoyment out of practicing than playing, remember what he said in abu dhabi when he got disqualified "At least I'll get 3 days extra practice in"

I suppose it is important to note that these guys have lives outside of golf and maybe he's head is more into his family now than golf and he just doesn't realise it.

I think one thing is for certain, PH has an awful lot of support all over the world and when he is back to his best(I know he will be back), everyone will be rooting for him.