Daniel Levy/Joe Lewis

pleasant Co.

Try thinking harder, bigger, broader, you'll find your way out of that tunnel someday

KingdomYid

Meh, could not care less how much profit we have made. I am more interested about what happens on the pitch.

jiltloop

Yes but the problem is they are very much intrinsically linked. I would hate to see us seriously challenging for the championship one year and then going broke because of overspending and then going down the swanny for 10 years.

The business side of things have to be in order if we are to see the benefits on the pitch and hopefully in the trophy cabinets. My patience had been waning for the last 2 seasons but this season looks better already.

Dublin Spur

jiltloop wrote: »

Yes but the problem is they are very much intrinsically linked. I would hate to see us seriously challenging for the championship one year and then going broke because of overspending and then going down the swanny for 10 years.

The business side of things have to be in order if we are to see the benefits on the pitch and hopefully in the trophy cabinets. My patience had been waning for the last 2 seasons but this season looks better already.

how about not overspending but at least spending what we have available ?

surely that's a bare minimum requirement for a club of our size and history

record profits but only 1 trophy in 16 years and only 1 recognised center forward

it's clear where the owners priorities lie

jiltloop

Dublin Spur wrote: »

how about not overspending but at least spending what we have available ?

surely that's a bare minimum requirement for a club of our size and history

record profits but only 1 trophy in 16 years and only 1 recognised center forward

it's clear where the owners priorities lie

I don't think we're too shy about spending money, in fact I would say we splashed out with the Bale money and look what that got us! It's not all about spending money, it's about spending wisely.

pleasant Co.

Dublin Spur wrote: »

how about not overspending but at least spending what we have available ?

surely that's a bare minimum requirement for a club of our size and history

record profits but only 1 trophy in 16 years and only 1 recognised center forward

it's clear where the owners priorities lie

It's is clear, we're building a ridiculously costly stadium and planning accordingly...it is very clear, a blind man could see it, unless his head was in the sand and he's unaware of what goes into building a new stadium and what every self sufficient club has had to go through as a result. But, nah, just ignore all the money that is being plowed right back into the club, fits your tired rhetoric.

---

Have no issue with the owners wanting to make money, the ambition is there to make even more of it, and that is benefiting our club greatly.

Dublin Spur

pleasant Co. wrote: »

It's is clear, we're building a ridiculously costly stadium and planning accordingly...it is very clear, a blind man could see it, unless his head was in the sand and he's unaware of what goes into building a new stadium and what every self sufficient club has had to go through as a result. But, nah, just ignore all the money that is being plowed right back into the club, fits your tired rhetoric.

---

Have no issue with the owners wanting to make money, the ambition is there to make even more of it, and that is benefiting our club greatly.

the only people with their heads in the sand are those that think ENIC care about Tottenham Hotspur being a sucessful football club

the stadium (if its ever built) will be financed and partially paid for by NFL and probably some other commercial enterprise via naming rights. It shouldn't restrict our ability to invest in the team. On top of all of that our owner is a billionaire.

This is how ENIC work:

• minimum spend,
• maximum revenue,
• keep the mugs happy with a 5th-8th finish every year
• win nothing
• sell our best players (assets),
• soak up the TV money,
• sell for a billion when some fool is prepared to meet the ridiculous asking price

positivenote

anyone who thinks that ENIC care about anything other than selling on for maximum profit are deluded. because results are going well on the pitch doesnt change anything whatsoever regarding their concern with the actual 'football' side of things. as long as we dont get relegated they are happy, and untill that is a possibility of happening their purse strings shall remain restrained, and they shall be in excess profit.
Personally im sick of how some people believe that you have to support an investment company, whose sole interest in the club is for their own financial gain, if you are a fan of the team. We'll all be around alot longer than they will.

DubPerryman

Dublin Spur wrote: »

the only people with their heads in the sand are those that think ENIC care about Tottenham Hotspur being a sucessful football club

positivenote wrote: »

anyone who thinks that ENIC care about anything other than selling on for maximum profit are deluded.

One thing you guys are missing... if ENIC wants to sell for a massive profit, the easiest way to do so is being successful on the pitch.

ENIC has invested in a state-of-the-art training facility and they are currently investing in the largest Premier League stadium in London. Both of these facilities will attract greater sponsorship and increase the chances of selling the club at a larger price but will also attract better players in the future.

As mentioned, the success we have in the future will be built on solid foundations (i.e. Rome wasn't built in a day). We are not going to become a Leeds. Nobody will invest a billion in Leeds.

When we are start succeeding on the pitch with support from the revenue-generating new stadium, then we will start seeing greater global commercial success.... thus further increasing the value of the club. Then the club will be sold for 1 billion.

Don't worry, there's a few more years left in the ENIC plan... the capital investments such as the training ground and the stadium are just the start.

Dublin Spur

Imagine what we could achieve if their absolute focus was on making THFC successful again.

15 years is plenty of time to judge where their priorities lie. They'll walk away with a billion some day and achieve their objective.

Until then it's Europa League and the odd cup final defeat every few years.......

jiltloop

Being profitable and being successful are not independent things. As Dubperryman said, ENIC's best chance of turning a profit is to make Spurs successful on the pitch, a fact I am sure they are aware of.

Dublin Spur

jiltloop wrote: »

Being profitable and being successful are not independent things. As Dubperryman said, ENIC's best chance of turning a profit is to make Spurs successful on the pitch, a fact I am sure they are aware of.

well they have spent 15 years "trying" to make us successful on the pitch and have failed miserably - we're on our worst trophy run (1 in 16 years) since the war.

I was patient for the first 10 years, since then I've seen straight through their sham ownership.

but I guess we're stuck with them for now

DubPerryman

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3290890/Harry-Kane-backs-Tottenham-s-decision-travel-plane-games-20-minute-journey-Bournemouth-helped-striker-score-hat-trick-5-1-victory.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

ENIC now investing in pre-match flights to matches. Their investment was well rewarded with our 5-1 win!

2nd Row Donkey

DubPerryman wrote:

One thing you guys are missing... if ENIC wants to sell for a massive profit, the easiest way to do so is being successful on the pitch.

No its not the easiest way. The easiest way is to invest in infrastructure - bricks and mortar, something tangible that can be put on the balance sheet. That's why they've invested in the training ground and the new stadium and not the playing squad.

They could spend the same money on transfers and wages but it would be massively riskier because it would guarantee nothing and it's much more difficult to measure.

They spend just enough money to keep the majority happy, enough to make us think 'maybe, just maybe ' there's hope and potential for something more then before and then we get let down again and again and again. And the saddest part is that a lot of fans find this acceptable

Dublin Spur

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

They spend just enough money to keep the majority happy, enough to make us think 'maybe, just maybe ' there's hope and potential for something more then before and then we get let down again and again and again. And the saddest part is that a lot of fans find this acceptable

Well said sir

irishmover

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

No its not the easiest way. The easiest way is to invest in infrastructure - bricks and mortar, something tangible that can be put on the balance sheet. That's why they've invested in the training ground and the new stadium and not the playing squad.

They could spend the same money on transfers and wages but it would be massively riskier because it would guarantee nothing and it's much more difficult to measure.

They spend just enough money to keep the majority happy, enough to make us think 'maybe, just maybe ' there's hope and potential for something more then before and then we get let down again and again and again. And the saddest part is that a lot of fans find this acceptable

Do you honestly think that spending ~£470m on players is even comprehensible for a club like Spurs compared to building the training ground and stadium? And that somehow the FFP rules wouldn't apply to us?

A stadium lasts a hell of a lot longer than a few players who are only their for the cash.

Our squad isn't as a bad as you'd try have me believe. Things aren't perfect but they're not disastrous.

Hollister11

ENIC's net spend with Spurs is 71,425,099,

Or around 5M per season over 14 years.

irishmover

Hollister11 wrote: »

ENIC's net spend with Spurs is 71,425,099,

Or around 5M per season over 14 years.

Thought it would have been lower than that.

Dublin Spur

Hollister11 wrote: »

ENIC's net spend with Spurs is 71,425,099,

Or around 5M per season over 14 years.

they don't care once the shareholder is rewarded
any footballing success is a fluke

Look at our 2 biggest achievements under their tenure:

• did they invest/build on the 08 cup win ? - No
• did they invest/build on the 2010 CL qualification ? - No

Left Back on the Bench

Dublin Spur wrote:

Look at our 2 biggest achievements under their tenure: did they invest/build on the 08 cup win ? - Nodid they invest/build on the 2010 CL qualification ? - No

I think they tried. Ramos was doing great things with sevilla and they probably thought we'd he'd kick us on.

I think levy believed in redknapp too but talked too much for levys liking and was whoring himself out for the England job and when that didn't happen wanted to go back to negotiating a new deal when levy wanted that done much earlier to show loyalty to spurs.

I think enic are trying to build up the club to sell to the highest bidder and i probably am 1 of those fans who thinks, "maybe, just maybe" but i don't want our club throwing money at it.

I don't want city or Chelski or even United. I want players who wear the jersey with pride, who work hard, who seem to honestly enjoy playing together, are young and have a serious amount off potential in my opinion.

Devo from Dublin

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

I think they tried. Ramos was doing great things with sevilla and they probably thought we'd he'd kick us on.

I think levy believed in redknapp too but talked too much for levys liking and was whoring himself out for the England job and when that didn't happen wanted to go back to negotiating a new deal when levy wanted that done much earlier to show loyalty to spurs.

I think enic are trying to build up the club to sell to the highest bidder and i probably am 1 of those fans who thinks, "maybe, just maybe" but i don't want our club throwing money at it.

I don't want city or Chelski or even United. I want players who wear the jersey with pride, who work hard, who seem to honestly enjoy playing together, are young and have a serious amount off potential in my opinion.

Wake up...time for work!!!:p

Dublin Spur

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

I don't want city or Chelski or even United. I want players who wear the jersey with pride, who work hard, who seem to honestly enjoy playing together, are young and have a serious amount off potential in my opinion.

That's totally understandable

I just want owners that put the success of the football club first and foremost in their list of priorities. If they fail doing this then at least their hearts were in the right place.

Imagine where we could be if Joe Lewis really cared about Spurs having great players and winning stuff like we did regularly in the 60s, 70s and 80s

Lewis is a great business man and a great safety net for THFC, but we will never break through to the next level under his ownership. He doesn't want us to. Europa league every year is what you get with his and Levy's model.

jiltloop

Dublin Spur wrote: »

Lewis is a great business man and a great safety net for THFC, but we will never break through to the next level under his ownership. He doesn't want us to. Europa league every year is what you get with his and Levy's model.

I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense. When you come out with statements like the one in bold above it's very hard not to discount everything you say. Why on earth would the owner of a football club not want the club to be successful? Whether more interested in selling on the club for a profit or not it still wouldn't make any sense.

The sport of football is a completely different animal now than it was in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Personally I believe that elements of what you say are true but I do think that running a club is fine balancing act when the owners aren't billionaires effectively enjoying a hobby. You might say that Joe Lewis is a billionaire which is correct but he is a different type of billionaire to Abramovic. Joe Lewis is an investment businessman and Abramovic is an Oligarch. Of course Lewis is going to be looking for a return on his investment but he also needs his asset to grow and be successful.

This means he can't just throw millions of disposable cash at the club that he has lying around and he has to make sure decisions are made carefully. I think some of those decisions have been wrong and I think spending has been at times too cautious and at other times too wreckless but to infer that ENIC/Lewis are purposely running the club to avoid success on the pitch is crazy.

Dublin Spur

jiltloop wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense. When you come out with statements like the one in bold above it's very hard not to discount everything you say. Why on earth would the owner of a football club not want the club to be successful? Whether more interested in selling on the club for a profit or not it still wouldn't make any sense.

The sport of football is a completely different animal now than it was in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Personally I believe that elements of what you say are true but I do think that running a club is fine balancing act when the owners aren't billionaires effectively enjoying a hobby. You might say that Joe Lewis is a billionaire which is correct but he is a different type of billionaire to Abramovic. Joe Lewis is an investment businessman and Abramovic is an Oligarch. Of course Lewis is going to be looking for a return on his investment but he also needs his asset to grow and be successful.

This means he can't just throw millions of disposable cash at the club that he has lying around and he has to make sure decisions are made carefully. I think some of those decisions have been wrong and I think spending has been at times too cautious and at other times too wreckless but to infer that ENIC/Lewis are purposely running the club to avoid success on the pitch is crazy.

okay let me rephrase - its not that he doesn't want footballing success, I'm sure he thinks that would be nice. But it's not a priority.

Basically he is not prepared to make the decisions that could take us up to the next level. I accept there are risks involved, albeit tiny risks in terms of his enormous wealth.

Aside from investing his own cash, a good start would be at least spending as much as we take in on player sales.

2nd Row Donkey

For a long long time I held that view too.

I would have loved to have seen players like Dawson, Lennon, Defoe etc win a major trophy - a championship medal or a European trophy.

But that romantic notion is just that - a notion. Nothing more. The chances of any team winning a league title with more than one or two players that have graduated from their youth ranks are minimal.

Look at the current teams competing for the EPL ... United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal... how many of their match day squad players are brought up through the ranks? A couple at arsenal maybe but the rest?

Most of those teams players haven't been at the club for more than a few years. What kind of love or bond could they have for the club the represent.

Dublin Spur

Fans Forum Summary
David Winsley on 3rd Dec 2015

Okay, I’ve just got home and it was an absolutely brilliant event. So here goes from memory and in no particular order:

January 2016 Transfer Window

There are definitely funds available to strengthen the squad.
Daniel Levy (DL) made it very clear that Mauricio Pochettino (MP) will always have the final say on which players are bought or sold.
They will look to do business ‘swiftly’ (yeah right), if the right player becomes available.
A number of supporters stated they were worried about being one Harry Kane injury away from disaster.
New Stadium

Lots of questions about this as you can probably imagine, so I’ve summarised the main bits.

£110m has already been spent on the project so far, and the total build cost is going to be around £500m once finished.
Everything is being geared towards being in the fully completed stadium for the start of the 2018/19 season.
I’m sure we knew this already, but the new stadium will be corporately named and will definitely not be called White Hart Lane or the ‘New White Hart Lane’.
DL said all efforts are being made to secure Wembley (at the reduced 50k capacity) for the 2017/18 season away from WHL.
DL said there is no intention to be away from Tottenham for more than one season.
DL got a round of applause and made everyone laugh, when someone suggested that we were going to share the Olympic Stadium with West Ham. His exact words were ‘do you think Karen Brady would agree to that?’
1882 got a mention and DL said extensive efforts have been made in the design and choice of materials to make the atmosphere as vibrant as possible.
DL said he was very well aware of supporters concerns about ticket prices in the new stadium and there would be a wide-range of pricing options.
1st Team

MP & Hugo Lloris (HL) both said that there is an excellent team spirit and sense of togetherness in the dressing room and that everyone was pulling in the same direction.
MP said that all the players understand his way of thinking and that he credits his backroom team with raising the fitness level of the whole squad.
As we already know, MP said he enjoys working with a mixture of experienced international’s and the young players. His aim is to improve every player in the squad.
When drawing up a list of transfer targets at the end of last season, it was widely recognised that we needed a defensive midfielder. However, MP told DL and the rest of the THFC board, that he would turn Eric Dier into defensive midfielder, which he has definitely succeeded at, I am sure you will agree.
HL said the vocal support the team receives home and away is the best he has ever experienced in his footballing career.
Other

Surprisingly, HL said his idol or hero when he was growing-up, was Pete Sampras.
MP said his hero was his father when he was growing-up, but is now DL – this got a huge laugh and round of applause, as I’m sure you can imagine.
DL clearly stated that neither ENIC/Joe Lewis had any intention of selling the club, once the new stadium is complete and they are in it for the long-term.
Son is the biggest joker in the dressing room, closely followed by Kyle Walker.
Sales of Bale & Modric

DL said something very interesting about the sales of both Luka Modric (LM) and Gareth Bale (GB). He stated that the club did not wish to sell either player and that the final decision was made by the manager at time.
In LM’s case and as is widely known, Chelsea made a big bid for him, but Harry convinced him to stay for one more season, before getting his dream move to Real Madrid.
In GB’s case, AVB decided that he could not offer him what he wanted and was likely to be a disruptive influence in the dressing room, if he was made to stay.
My Observations

There is a real feel-good factor around every area of the club at the moment and numerous supporters said how pleased they were with the progress that is being made on and off the pitch.
DL is actually a much more approachable and easy-going kind of guy, than I have always thought he was. He’s clearly very intelligent, astute and rightly deserves credit for how far the club has come, since ENIC took-over.
It was clear to me that MP and the whole club are very ambitious and positive about the future.
Finally, I really got the impression that MP is genuinely the man they wanted as manager, and that he has the complete and full backing of DL, plus the rest of the THFC board.
If I’m being totally honest, there was only one negative to report, which was a question from a female member of LGBT Spurs. She asked a completely inappropriate, confusing and seemingly politically motivated question, which neither HL or MP really understood or knew what to say in response. I didn’t really get it either and it was more of a political statement rather than a question in the end.

Other than that, it was a fantastic evening and I don’t think, I’ve ever been prouder to support our great club. The future’s bright, the future’s Lilywhite as they say.

2nd Row Donkey

Dublin Spur wrote:

MP said his hero was his father when he was growing-up, but is now DL – this got a huge laugh and round of applause, as I’m sure you can imagine.

DL definitely got the right man alright. The right man for him.

Dublin Spur

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

DL definitely got the right man alright. The right man for him.

Yep, so far so good - I hope he backs MP fully in the transfer market if he wants to make a move for a player. This is an area where we have fallen down spectacularly in over the years.

We'll see I guess.....

DubPerryman

I love the way Real Madrid and every other Premier League club got Levy'd in the Gareth Bale deal....

irishmover

Just thinking about Villa. They were almost identical to us about 8 years ago. Both clubs flattered to deceive around the top 4 look at the difference now.

I'm genuinely gutted for Villa and hope they bounce back quick. One of the most consistent top tier teams ever.

Anyway. Is this a case of good owners (debatable) who made smart decisions (again debatable) over the years versus terrible owners who've essentially ruined a traditional top English club?