Lurgan Bomb

KeithAFC

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

I'm pretty sure if you read back over Mussolini's posts, that's exactly what he thinks too.
Unfortunately it seems to be the case amonst most unionists to hear what they want to hear from Republicans. No care to what exactly has actually been said.
As a Republican I do condemn this "attack" It serves no purpose and serves only to attempt to take Republicanism down the wrong path.
The days of armed resistance thankfully ended when the Provisionals stood down. Enough progress is being made politically to negate the need for armed actions at this time. Due to the actions of the Provisionals, the brits and unionist can no longer ignore the Nationalist people of this island. Now that they have been forced to listen, the armed war is over and it is time soley for political actions to take us forward to a united Ireland.

Good luck with that. Not that it will happen.

Notorious97

KeithAFC wrote: »

The SAS is a counter terrorist regiment. Not murderers.

lol if you say so mate, i wont argue lol :pac::pac:

keano_afc

KeithAFC wrote: »

The SAS is a counter terrorist regiment. Not murderers.

Really? How effective were their counter terrorism methods against Loyalist paramilitaries in the 70's and 80's?

KeithAFC

keano_afc wrote: »

Really? How effective were their counter terrorism methods against Loyalist paramilitaries in the 70's and 80's?

Obviously the loyalist paramilitaries were too good for them.;)

keano_afc

KeithAFC wrote: »

Obviously the loyalist paramilitaries were too good for them.;)

Which I'm sure is great consolation to the familes of innocent Catholics murdered by these death squads which the SAS did nothing to counter.

KeithAFC

keano_afc wrote: »

Which I'm sure is great consolation to the familes of innocent Catholics murdered by these death squads which the SAS did nothing to counter.

You need to tell me why?

moonpurple

in the sunday business post this analysis went in last sunday
www.sbpost.ie
heading says a lot,

Dissident republican cynicism runs deep
15 August 2010 BY TOM McGURK

With no hope whatever of success, dissident republicans are luring a new generation of young people down a cul-de-sac of prisons and graveyards.

Last Thursday night, civil servants in London and Dublin were quietly delighted that the dissident republican prison protest under way for months in Maghaberry Prison had been resolved through intermediaries.

Well, resolved for the moment - given the nature of the situation it is likely that it could begin again. At this stage in the North, there are few who don’t recognise the symbolic and political potential of prison protests.

The protest began on Easter Sunday when 28 dissident republican prisoners barricaded themselves inside the prison canteen and smashed toilets in their cells. Prisoners had complained about excessive strip-searching and controlled movement. At one stage, prison officers were offered protective clothing after urine was thrown at them.

Among those involved in the negotiations which ended the protest was the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. The mediation group included Creggan Enterprises from Derry and the Dialogue Advisory Group, based in Amsterdam.

Afterwards, this group insisted that the details of the agreement reached were confidential, but it is understood that, during the discussions, the prisoners had put forward a list of five demands and that agreement had been reached on the three demands they considered ‘‘most important’’.

Apparently it was agreed that there would no longer be any limit on the number of prisoners who could use the recreation room or outdoor football pitch at the jail.

There would be a relaxation on controlled movement inside the republican wing, and concessions on strip-searching had been secured.

Almost certainly these were the discussions that Martin McGuinness was referring to when he made his surprise statement that ‘‘the British and Irish governments were already talking to the dissidents’’.

Earlier last week, Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams wrote to all of the dissident republican groups hoping to persuade them to seek Irish unity through peaceful political means. Gerry Kelly has already indicated that he is preparing to talk to representatives of the 32 Country Sovereignty Movement, which is part of the Real IRA.

If statistics mean anything, the threat from dissident republican groups is increasing; there have been more incidents of bombing and shootings this year than in the last five put together. Significantly, dissident attacks across the North have taken place in every county, and almost every major town has been involved. Whatever about the numbers of active participants (which remain small, though that might actually be a bonus for the groups, in the circumstances) they have proved both their bomb-making capacity and intelligence capability, given the number of attacks on the homes of police officers.

There are two principal dissident groups: the Continuity IRA, which broke away in 1986 when Sinn Fein finally abandoned abstentionism, and the Real IRA which split from the Provisional IRA in 1997.Both groups resulted from Sinn Fein’s gradual move to constitutional politics and its abandonment of militarism, and each continues to espouse traditional ‘Brits Out’ policies.

In the early years after the peace process began to deliver results, the dissidents appeared insignificant, but in more recent times, they have begun to emerge, particularly at sectarian interfaces. They were a significant presence at the recent Twelfth of July riot in Ardoyne, where essentially they provided a platform for the mostly-unemployed nationalist youth of West Belfast to attack the PSNI.

Worryingly, the high levels of unemployment and social breakdown in nationalist working-class areas have proved a fertile recruiting ground for the dissidents. They can’t see much evidence that the peace process has made any difference to their economic prospects. There is also a significant generational difference between the dissidents and members of Sinn Fein, with younger people looking for more than just political action.

However, the dissident movement has almost no visible public support. The North’s war-weary nationalist population has been there before and has that T-shirt. Remember that, in the early years of the Provisional movement, the lack of popular support on the ground didn’t faze that organisation.

However, there is one hugely significant difference now - that is the political and security context created by the peace process. The Provisionals’ support base was in large part built by reactive support against the mindless security policies of the British government and episodes such as internment, Bloody Sunday and the hunger strikes.

The lesson that so many politicians in London and Dublin were tragically unable to learn for over a generation was that, the heavier the security hand on the nationalist population, the greater the support for the IRA. This time around, a devolved political administration in government - with many members of the former army council of the Provisional IRA at the heart of it - is hardly likely to repeat Britain’s mistakes. Ironically, it will be an interesting political test of the durability of the peace process as to whether it will be able to deal with the dissident threat in the context of an increasingly normalised society.

At the heart of the dissident movement is a small group of older and former Provisionals whose political sophistication belongs more to geography class than history class. Their fatuous belief that, in a post 9/11 European Union, guerrilla warfare could change anything is simply absurd - or, even worse, a desperate act of political midlife crisis. To attempt to lead a new generation of young Northern nationalists into a new cul-de-sac of prisons and graveyards is an act of appalling cynicism. Apart from anything else, they should be ashamed of themselves. Have these kids and their mothers and fathers not suffered enough in the last 40 years?

Why can they not see that the war ended because both sides finally recognised that it was unwinnable by military means? The political resolution that resulted ended political majoritarianism for ever, which was the principal crisis created by partition. At that moment, the old colony became the new co-op.

The republican dissidents are not political activists at all, but actors on a stage without a play to act in.

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

You need to tell me why?

Probably because you're cheer-leading the SAS?

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

Probably because you're cheer-leading the SAS?

I said what they SAS are.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

I said what they SAS are.

You said what you believe them to be.

KeithAFC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You said what you believe them to be.

Same with you and the IRA.

Micky Dolenz

My head hurts a bit.

Right, closing arguments and then I will force peace between ye with a lock down.

Wolfe Tone

In closing, this was a disgraceful attack and should be condemned by all.


The bombings are a symptom of a problem, the PSNI. As a force they maintain many of the old RUC heads. The PSNI is still unacceptable as harassment towards nationalists still continues, albeit on a reduced level. Of course this doesn't mean that they should be attacked, there are better ways to address the issues. The only effective way of combating the dissidents is to remove their support base. Personally I can see only two ways that this will happen.

1. The problems are addressed, or at least there is seen to be an increased concentrated effort to address them. This can be done in a way which it does not look like giving in to "terrorist demands"
2. An Omagh/Enniskillen style atrocity perpetrated by the dissidents would destroy all support.

A police crackdown, BA on the streets, interment, all have been tried, and failed. Talking is the only way.

Stercus Accidit

Read in Northy Accent:

There is a sitchyation, in the comunidi, between disident republicans, and yewnionists. We need to provide amenitdis, for these comunidis. Hoy noy brown coy.

Terry

Notorious97 wrote: »

To be honest the Orange Order are sectarian and if they were not around anymore they would not be missed in my opinion, i don’t have problems with protestants, i see us as all rightful inhabitants on this island, i just think what the OO stand for is very sectarian. Obviously you get elements on the republican side of things who are very sectarian too and i don’t see a place for them either in a united Ireland. If you care to read the 1916 proclamation it is a document promoting equality for all people of this island.

You can call the provos murderers, i will call the SAS and BA, RUC, LVF, UVF, UDA murderers and terrorists too. Where does that get us though? Slag off the provos all you want though, but when the sh*t was hitting the fan for nationalists up north at the hand of the british, our mickey mouse ‘free state’ army and government done sweet fu*k all to help our own people within the 6 counties. More pressure could have been put on the british to rid the 6 counties of inequalities, but it wasn’t. Fact of the matter is the so called Republic of Ireland failed irish people in northern Ireland, as did the british government.

Thats how the provos came into being, thats why also. Was there alot done by both sides which was out of order? Yes, very much so. But it happened and i strongly believe that if this had not happened, we would not have nationalist being listened to as they are today. Thats just my view, i respect others on here with their views, but i don’t think i have made any crazy claims that people don’t already know.

Any incursion into Northern Ireland would have been seen as an act of war by the Republic.
My father served on the border during the height of the civil rights protests. He ended up spending time in an asylum after receiving threats towards him and his troop and seeing innocent people murdered by both sides. He never fully recovered.
I find it a bit insulting that you would demean those who served on the border and had absolutely no power to stop what was going on.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

They weren't and still aren't 'our own people'. They live in Northern Ireland which is under British rule so therefore they are not Irish but rather Northern Irish or British.

If our army had gone up there to 'help' it would have been seen as an invasion which is an act of war that would have caused a retaliation that would have seen the rest of the country swallowed up by the British.

Apart from the Scottish planters, they have always been our people.
After invasion, an island at war over small territories united against a common, but far more powerful enemy.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

did the IRA bomb their way to the negotiating table, or did they delay things? from what I can gather, the people who brought the British Government (It is the government the IRA wanted at the table, not the Brits. Why is it that Republicans refer to "The Brits" all the time, using that logic, we should be efering to all Nationalists/Republicans as "The Irish") and stopped the killing were the decent people of Northern Ireland who had had enough.

I know someone who left Belfast (A natinalist growing up in East Belfast) when the two soldiers were dragged form their car and beaten to death, She calls it a wake up call for a lot of people. It gave the people of Northern Ireland a chance to look at themselves and see what they had become. At that point, the anti war people started really finding their voice.

You also need to look at the situation from a British perspective. All the time the IRA were killing Shopkeeprs in London, or Children in Warrington it would have been political suicide for any British Government to talk to the Nationalists and, tragically, most Catholics/Nationalists/Republicans go lumped into the same category as people who thought bombing Argos helped their cause.

I know the majority of people involved don't want a return to the bad old days, i just find it somewhat distaseful when people try and excuse the continued use of violence, or, as the poster in in question appeared to do, keep it in the background in a "They haven't gone away you know" manner.

Good post though, I appreciate your comments.

Not one single person here has condoned this attack. I urge you to find one post where someone did.
All you can do is twist the words of others to suit your own agenda, as is your usual posting style.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I love how the Nationalists keep patting each other on the back by giving each thanks on every post and dogpiling on everyone who even slightly disagrees with them.

Also the arguing over the slightest semantic in other people posts and condensending tone of their own posts is hilarious. Not to mention they have their own private little subforum that you have to contact the Queen bee to get into. It must just be a wall to wall circle jerk in there because it's been bad enough already in this thread.

I was invited to join about a year ago by someone else. Hah! in your face.
Edit #1: Sorry, I was given access by someone else.

Why don't you apply for your own hosted forum, with blackjack and hookers and pictures of the queen in various poses? In fact, forget the blackjack and hookers.

Edit #2: Don't forget that it was England* who were the invaders. The first of many colonial fúck ups which are still felt around the world today.

*Before any uneducated pedant gets involved, there was no U.K. until 1801.

Fratton Fred

Terry wrote: »

Not one single person here has condoned this attack. I urge you to find one post where someone did.
All you can do is twist the words of others to suit your own agenda, as is your usual posting style.

I never said anyone condoned the attacks Terry. Tis you twisting words I believe.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I never said anyone condoned the attacks Terry. Tis you twisting words I believe.

you are trying to claim that it was OK, which it clearly isn't. It was a bomb in an area where children are/where present. it is wrong, full stop.

lets get this straight, The bomb should not have been placed in the first place. Right or wrong? easy question to answer.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67469949&postcount=233

Savage Tyrant

KeithAFC wrote: »

The SAS is a counter terrorist regiment. Not murderers.

Unfortunately there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Good luck with that. Not that it will happen.

Thanks for wishing us luck on a United Ireland. Fortunately I don't think it is needed. Only time.

If the thread is going to be locked I will finish up by again condemning the brainless deed that this thread is discussing. It is not representitive of the Republican direction. If anything it further alienates Republicanism from our unionist inclined brothers. These people have little to no support in any community in Ireland.

KeithAFC

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

Unfortunately there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise.



Thanks for wishing us luck on a United Ireland. Fortunately I don't think it is needed. Only time.

If the thread is going to be locked I will finish up by again condemning the brainless deed that this thread is discussing. It is not representitive of the Republican direction. If anything it further alienates Republicanism from our unionist inclined brothers. These people have little to no support in any community in Ireland.

I don't think it is only time at all. Anyway, i think the vast majority on here have condemned the attack which is good to see as the attack was just not wanted by one.

Micky Dolenz

Thanks for the interesting thoughts, but I think it's best to end this here.