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Roundabout lanes (response from the RSA!)
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13-08-2010 10:05am#1I was having a discussion on here a few days ago about what lane to take when using a roundabout. I ended up e-mailing the RSA to clarify, as the rules of the road only give a very simplistic illustration of a four entry/exit roundabout. I'm posting the response I received here rather than in the original thread, as I'm afraid we totally dragged that one off-topic from the OP's question!
But I'm sure the mods can merge if appropriate.
Anyways. Here's my e-mail and the response that I received.
Me:
Driving Tester Supervisor (RSA):I have a query about roundabouts and would greatly appreciate your assistance.
I'm looking at the information provided here: http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html
Taken from that page:
"Making a left turn
- Signal left and approach in the left-hand lane.
- Keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.
- Approach in the left-hand lane but do not signal yet.
- Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.
- You may follow the course shown in the illustration by the broken red line in situations where:
- Signal right and approach in the right-hand lane.
- Keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout.
- Check your mirrors, signal left and proceed to your exit when it is safe to do so.
- Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want to take."
That's all fine when you're dealing with a standard four-entrance roundabout with the first exit at 90degrees, second exit at 180degrees, and third exit at 270degrees.
My question is, how do you deal with a roundabout with an irregular shape or an irregular number of entrances/exits?
The way I was taught was using the "12 o clock" rule, and as far as I can see, this fits in with the extract above. I.e., irrespective of the number of exits, if I'm taking a turn at 180degrees or less I stay in the left hand lane, and if I'm taking a turn at an angle of over 180degrees I signal right and stay in the right hand lane.
However, I know of a lot of people who base their approach on the number of exits. If they're taking the first or second exit they use the left hand lane; if they're taking the third or subsequent exits they use the right hand lane.
So, say if there was a roundabout with three exits at less than 180degrees from the entrance that I'm coming from and I'm taking the third exit. In my view, I should treat it as "making a left turn" (above.) I would stay in the left lane and indicate left once I'd passed the second exit. However, others would argue that, as it's the third exit, you should approach in the right lane and use the right lane of the roundabout - even though, technically, you're turning left.
Similarly, say if a roundabout had only three entrances/exits with equal space between them - i.e. when I'm coming onto the roundabout, the first exit is at 120degrees and the second is at 240degrees. If I want to take the second exit, I think that I should indicate right and use the right hand lane; others would argue that it is the second exit and you should therefore use the left hand lane.
I'd really appreciate a definitive answer on this!
Thanks and kind regards,
**name**
Dear **name**,
While it is impossible to give a definitive rule on position to be taken at Multi Exit Roundabouts due to their actual layout, size and amount of traffic lanes if any, however as a general rule if taking any Exit between the 8.00am to 1.00pm positions, motorists should approach in the Left Hand Lane, Road Position or as dictated by Road Markings.
If taking any Exit from the 1.pm to 5.pm position motorists should approach in the Right Hand Lane or Position.
Your are correct on your understanding of the procedures to be adopted at Roundabouts in your email.
Your colleagues are not correct in their understanding that they base their approach on the number of exits only and not take into account the layout of the Exits at the Roundabouts.
The above guidelines are for reference only’.
I hope this is of help.
Kind regards,
**name**
Road Safety Authority
He has hyperlinked to something there at 1pm and 5pm - I'm assuming illustrations? - the links are blocked on the network I'm on at the moment though so I can't see.
Anyways, TLDR; the 12 o clock rule is correct, go by that rather than by the number of exits on the roundabout. And yes I know that the majority of drivers already know this, but there are quite a few out there that don't so hopefully this'll help clarify the issue for some of them.
(I have way too much time on my hands ...) 9
Comments
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They are not genuine hyperlinks, the email is assuming that the '.pm', is a url and translating them as such
Interesting response and the one that makes most sense imo. Of course, I'm sure there will be some that disagree but that's life 0 -
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:rolleyes: Why can't they simply make rulesWhile it is impossible to give a definitive rule on position to be taken at Multi Exit Roundabouts due to their actual layout, size and amount of traffic lanes if any
what about between 5 and 8 too
aprraoch to roundabout changed so Though I'll have to print that out and stick it to the window so when the GF gives out to me for it I can point at that. 0 -
chatterpillar wrote: »I'm not good with IT! If I can get them on my home computer I'll stick them up here tonight.
They are not links. Clicking them on any computer will result in nothingness.0 -
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RSA wrote:While it is impossible to give a definitive rule on position to be taken at Multi Exit Roundabouts due to their actual layout, size and amount of traffic lanes if any, however as a general rule if taking any Exit between the 8.00am to 1.00pm positions, motorists should approach in the Left Hand Lane, Road Position or as dictated by Road Markings.
If taking any Exit from the 1.pm to 5.pm position motorists should approach in the Right Hand Lane or Position.
Not all that reassuring, I would have thought there would have been very definite rules about this...it's not like we have no large multi exit round abouts here
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Too many different scenarios to cover properly I'm afraid. Which would be fine if all irregular roundabouts road markings/signage :rolleyes:.Not all that reassuring, I would have thought there would have been very definite rules about this...it's not like we have no large multi exit round abouts here
My pet peeve is that the rotr does not make sense for a very common type of roundabout. Where you have two exits only, left and straight ahead, the right entrance lane is effectively wasted (except for u-turns) unless the council has the sense to put down road markings (or motorists break the rules).0 -
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What if you use the 24 hour clock like me? Is it 08.00 to 13.00 or 20.00 to 01.00? What's am or pm got to do with it?
Do you also hold the steering wheel at 13:50?
Seriously though, looks like you just got a pretty generic response from somebody.
It wasn't very long, but I wouldn't call it generic - the point that he is making is absolutely clear. And he did specifically say that my understanding, as outlined in my e-mail, was correct. I mean, what more do you want? If you're still unsure after reading his response, you can of course follow it up with the RSA yourself. Here are the contact details:
LoCall: 1890 50 60 80
Tel: 096-25000
Email: info@rsa.ie
Be sure to let us know how you get on.johndaman66 wrote: »I do believe that from reading the response from the RSA authority that it is at odds with the ROTR book or at least the latest publication I read which was not too terribly long ago. I never seen any reference to 1pm or 5pm or any other times for that matter in the ROTR book. When learning to drive I was thought in terms of first, second, third and subsequent exits with absolutely no reference made to degress or 1pm to 5pm etc.
OK. See my extract from the ROTR in the first post? It's really, really simple.
If you are turning left, you stay in the left lane.
If you are going straight, you stay in the left lane.
If you are turning right, you use the right lane.
Now, personally, I see no mention of rules for first, second, third or subsequent exits.
And yet people still argue this. Which is why others often use the face of a clock (with twelve o clock being straight ahead) to try to explain the rule. I tried explaining it in terms of degrees (with the approaching road at zero degrees) to try to make it a bit clearer, but apparently that doesn't work either.
If you're finding it difficult, just forget about clocks and angles. It's just basic directions. Left and right.
Look at the rules in the first post. Imagine you had never been taught any differently, and were looking at the rules for the very first time. How would you interpret them? It does not mention anything about exit numbers.
Please explain to me exactly what it is that you find to be at odds with the ROTR book.johndaman66 wrote: »Was also learned that these rules should be ignored when there is road markings/ signage to the contrary and said road markings/ signage should then be obeyed and the rules/ road signage/ markings should be ignored in the presence of Garda signals to the contrary.
Of course. Nobody is arguing otherwise.0 -
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