Hunters Vs Crime: +1 For the Hunters

FISMA

I was watching a TV show the other day. The episode detailed some hunters that came across a crime in progress.

I was thinking how you rarely ever hear of the numerous crimes either discovered or solved by people out hunting. A fact that I have never heard the anti's mention.

For example, remember Larry Murphy, released today for "good behavior?"

Kudos to RTE for stating that

"The woman, then in her mid 20s, was rescued by two men who were hunting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0812/murphyl.html

Someone should keep a database for us hunters out there.

jwshooter

FISMA wrote: »

I was watching a TV show the other day. The episode detailed some hunters that came across a crime in progress.

I was thinking how you rarely ever hear of the numerous crimes either discovered or solved by people out hunting. A fact that I have never heard the anti's mention.

For example, remember Larry Murphy, released today for "good behavior?"

Kudos to RTE for stating that

"The woman, then in her mid 20s, was rescued by two men who were hunting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0812/murphyl.html

Someone should keep a database for us hunters out there.

the two were poaching deer in the forest , but a good deed they done none the less .

rrpc

jwshooter wrote: »

the two were poaching deer in the forest , but a good deed they done none the less .

I expect that considering the service they did both the unfortunate victim and perhaps many others, they were considered to have been out (ahem) lamping foxes

jwshooter

rrpc wrote: »

I expect that considering the service they did both the unfortunate victim and perhaps many others, they were considered to have been out (ahem) lamping foxes

the reports change to fox shooting along the way .


the op is right we do a sevrice to the community ,, we work closely with the gardai on the mountains reporting joy riding etc .

it is often over looked , but once some one goes missing in the country side they call on GPAs to give a hand .

once again the same problem a townie ,that does not know we are a better allie than a foo

virminhunter

fair play to them, maybe its just hearsay but i was told the guards later tried to have the two lads gun licences revoked and the girl in question had to stand up in court to speak on their behalf, don't know if its true or not the fella who told me said he read it in her book... can't believe they let him back out:mad::mad::mad:

homerhop

Myself and another lad had the guards on the phone one night about murphy, asking could we remember the reg no of a car we came across one night lamping. At the time there was a young lad courting a girl from just up the road with the same kind of car and we put it down to the two of them getting some quiet time.

TippFan77

FISMA wrote: »

I was watching a TV show the other day. The episode detailed some hunters that came across a crime in progress.

I was thinking how you rarely ever hear of the numerous crimes either discovered or solved by people out hunting. A fact that I have never heard the anti's mention.

For example, remember Larry Murphy, released today for "good behavior?"

Kudos to RTE for stating that

"The woman, then in her mid 20s, was rescued by two men who were hunting.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0812/murphyl.html

Someone should keep a database for us hunters out there.

Yes...a lot of people have given the thumbs up to hunters for that literally life-saving episode and rightly so. Unlike a certain gentleman writing in the letters page of this Sunday's Sunday Tribune. Anyone seen that?

Sparks

The letter is on the tribune.ie website here and anyone who wants to can submit their comments on it to the tribune.

Personally, I've pointed out that it was a pair of hunters who caught Murphy to start with, and that maybe a convicted criminal like John Tierney isn't the kind of person that should be published in a broadsheet like the Tribune on such matters...

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

The letter is on the tribune.ie website here and anyone who wants to can submit their comments on it to the tribune.

Personally, I've pointed out that it was a pair of hunters who caught Murphy to start with, and that maybe a convicted criminal like John Tierney isn't the kind of person that should be published in a broadsheet like the Tribune on such matters...

I can't believe they let that idiot say that "I" and folk like "I" are mentally unbalanced!

Can "us" as a group not sue for liable?
I am enraged by this article!!
Animal hunting may lead to desire to harm humans
From John Tierney
In the tsunami of print devoted to the release of convicted rapist Larry Murphy, one less explored aspect was the fact that he was an avid animal hunter. Were the skills of stalking and killing honed until he felt ready to switch to a live target?

The link between animal and human abuse is well established. We need to deal with the fact that those who kill animals for fun have a serious medically untreated mental illness. The urge to torture and kill animals for fun is no more normal than the desire to inflict physical, mental and sexual abuse on a human victim.

John Tierney,

Campaigns director,

Association of Hunt Saboteurs,

PO Box 4734, Dublin 1

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Can "us" as a group not sue for liable?

In short, no.
(a) Libel and Slander are now defunct terms, they've been combined and replaced by the Defamation Act; and
(b) You were never able to slander or libel a group when the group was large enough to avoid identifying an individual.

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

In short, no.
(a) Libel and Slander are now defunct terms, they've been combined and replaced by the Defamation Act; and
(b) You were never able to slander or libel a group when the group was large enough to avoid identifying an individual.

So can we slag off Hunt Saboteur's ??

Sparks

Depends on how big a group they are Tackleberry. And the problem is that there's no defined threshold.

Frankly though, I'd just rather we wrote into the papers about how good we are, not how wrong the hunt sabs and icabs are.

homerhop

replyed, will be interesting to see if it gets posted

pedroeibar1

I've written to the editor on this also. Will be interesting to see if my letter makes it to the Letters page next week!
P.

Grizzly 45

Double post there..sorry.

Grizzly 45

]Funny how EVERY convicted kiddy fiddler,rapist,etc both here and abroad according to Mr Tierney&Co are "animal abusers".Maybe somone might like to ask in their letters where does Mr Tierney get this info from???Seeing that it never is brought up in the mainstream media.He must have an exellent insider source???
Maybe from his ol Pal John Fitzgerald of CACS who is now a "journalist" with a spot of" form" as well.:rolleyes:Or from his old sidekick Bernie Wright founder of the Dub hunt sabs who seems awfully pally with ex Loyalist renegades in Derry?

Minister Aherne and the C4 of DOJ and Factna Murphy would be better advised putting their attentions and manpower to such "peaceful non violent" animal rights groups to see what sort of criminal and subversive links they have,than going around harrassing,hounding and intimidating the law abiding gunowners of Ireland.:mad:

deeksofdoom

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I can't believe they let that idiot say that "I" and folk like "I" are mentally unbalanced!

Chin up Tack, none of us think that you or people like you are mentally unbalanced.

Tackleberrywho

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Chin up Tack, none of us think that you or people like you are mentally unbalanced.

Thats the problem Deeks, you are included in that mans statement

And far more people read the paper than read this

virminhunter

I wouldnt worry about it, anyone with half a brain would see it for the verbal diarrheoa it is, really suprised they published it in the first place though, he makes a bad point usin larry murphy as an example considering the two lads who stopped the crime were hunters...

homerhop

we know it is drivel but you go back to joe public in a weeks time who read that article and ask them to recall it you will get a far greater percentage recalling that murphy was a hunter who liked to torture animals

Grizzly 45

Wonder could we get to them under incitement to hatred laws?after all, they are trying to belittle us and have even said on one website .."That we[hunters] have no place in a civilised society" [Laura Broxton's NARA site].

virminhunter

homerhop wrote: »

we know it is drivel but you go back to joe public in a weeks time who read that article and ask them to recall it you will get a far greater percentage recalling that murphy was a hunter who liked to torture animals

I wouldn't say so Homer, with respect to your opinion, I think the only people who'd take that kinda sh**e in is the anti's, the whole country knows the people who stopped it were out hunting at the time.

homerhop

No worries Virmin, difference of oppinions is what makers the world go around, but what i will say is take any radio station with a phone in discussion involving hunting, the majority of callers are not anti's but the average folks, and the level of uneducated statements that they come out with comes from reading articles like that.

John_Rambo

jwshooter wrote: »

the op is right we do a sevrice to the community ,, we work closely with the gardai on the mountains reporting joy riding etc

As do Joggers, bikers, canoeists, anglers, walkers etc... I don't think painting yourselves as protectors is needed, I would be afraid it would be seen as an "excuse" for your sport. You don't need to candy stripe your activities with some sort of guardian angelic varnish. Anyone who came across such a scene would help and report.

jwshooter wrote: »

once again the same problem a townie ,that does not know we are a better allie than a foo

What town is he from jw?

homerhop

But it wasn’t people out jogging, canoeing, fishing or walking, it was 2 guys out hunting who came across the incident going on. As stated here local police will often call local gun club members before they call any of the above mentioned by you to keep an eye out or asking if they had noticed anything suspicious.
Whatever your issues are with hunting we do not need as you so politely put it “an excuse “ for our sport, nor do we need to candy stripe anything so you have no reason to be “afraid” . The reason for this thread was just to say it is nice to get some positive publicity in the media instead of the usual rubbish that hunters are often portrayed in.

kildare.17hmr

What a load of S**T, I just replied, prob wont be posted so ill put it up here.


This article is very missleading and very offensive and possibly harmfull to hunters.
I quote "We need to deal with the fact that those who kill animals for fun have a serious medically untreated mental illness." Is that Mr Tierneys medical opinion on the matter or just an opinion formed from lack of knolege on the subject? I think the Sunday Tribune is lowering its self by making such outragous claims. "The urge to torture and kill animals for fun is no more normal than the desire to inflict physical, mental and sexual abuse on a human victim." Again i ask, where was this opinion formed? Hunters do not torture animals, they aim for a clean kill to inflict little or no pain to their quarry. Hunting is a legal act and those who hunt for sport follow the word of the law exactly and are scrutanised by the law all the time, I dont think a convicted criminal like John Tierney is in a position to comment on the actions of law abiding citizens.

kildare.17hmr

John_Rambo wrote: »

As do Joggers, bikers, canoeists, anglers, walkers etc... I don't think painting yourselves as protectors is needed, I would be afraid it would be seen as an "excuse" for your sport. You don't need to candy stripe your activities with some sort of guardian angelic varnish. Anyone who came across such a scene would help and report.

I read the book about larry murphy, The beast of baltinglass, that was in one of the sunday papers last week and it quoted a High ranking Garda from wicklow saying that the hunters in wicklow are the best policemen as they know the area better than most and observe everything that goes on.

cavan shooter

Comment posted, you have to give it to him as fanatics go his Fatwa on hunting is class, his letters also make him out to be a wee bit of nut case.
it was brought to my attention by a girl who wouldnt really care for hunting but felt it OTT.

John_Rambo

I may not have articulated myself properly there homerhop.

I see your point, it is good to have right minded people roaming around secluded areas at night, if there was no hunting, that girl would surely be dead by now. I have come across crime on my blitzes around the countryside (nothing as serious as that), I have also found dead bodies and have been involved in searches for missing people because my skills allow me to go where a lot of people can't. I guess catching a criminal red handed is a by product of your hunting, albeit a very good by product! But, I wouldn't use it as a 'defense' because you don't need to defend yourselves against the likes of that guy in the Tribune.

Am I making sense?

I have no issue with game hunting at all. The only issue I have is that I sometimes find it hard to get my hands on wild shot game.

LB6

I just just caught up with the link on the tribune. I have never seen such a diatribe of verbal diarrhea.

That man seriously needs a wake up call. Have put a note into the Tribune asking how they can allow such sweeping statements to be printed without having proof/backup of what's being said.

:mad:

kildare.17hmr

Sent my reply to the editor, if anyone else wants to do so here is her email.

nhegarty@tribune.ie

Grizzly 45

John_Rambo wrote: »

As do Joggers, bikers, canoeists, anglers, walkers etc... I don't think painting yourselves as protectors is needed, I would be afraid it would be seen as an "excuse" for your sport. You don't need to candy stripe your activities with some sort of guardian angelic varnish.

What town is he from jw?

Tramore,and Waterford....Could be alot more specific.;)

Anyone who came across such a scene would help and report.

Suurreeee they would!!!Going up against a possibly armed rapist,or multiple rapist or whatever.99% of humanity wont get involved or attempt to do anything if they precive a danger to themselves.
Check out how many women have been raped in Central Park NYC,which is a quater of the size of the Phoenix park in broad daylight,with people walking past and ignoring their cries for help.Not to mind they "didnt want to get involved"or"didnt see anything"
NYPD could give you dozens of case files on this.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

99% of humanity wont get involved

True; but to be fair, that's not a hunter/non-hunter divide, it's just a human thing; the hunter/non-hunter split is orthogonal to the would-help/wouldn't-help split.

Which basicly means that the two hunters who did step in should be lauded as human beings, rather than as hunters really - their actions reflected very positively on them as people, they weren't just a default action. Mind you, this wouldn't even be an issue if Tierney wasn't such an unethical opportunist when writing this sort of dross to the papers every week.

Grizzly 45

Very true Sparks,but there is one salient,but must remain silent fact in this case,due to many reasons...They were..... "hunters";)

Well, what can you expect from Tierney&Co,no one else pays them any attention so they have to grab at anything to put their little poisionious view across.

John_Rambo

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

99% of humanity wont get involved

Grisly. They would. Murphy legged it as soon as he was spotted. Now either I hang around with incredibly nice people or I just put too much faith in humanity, but, I reckon 99% of people would help the girl.

As humans with our advanced altruism. Hunter, non hunter, normal people will help a girl in that much distress.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Very true Sparks,but there is one salient,but must remain silent fact in this case,due to many reasons...They were..... "hunters";)

Which is nice PR for us, and probably sticks in Tierney's craw a bit; but really, they were lots of other things as well, and the only thing that was relevant to this instance was that they were good people who stepped in and saved a life at risk to their own. If Tierney was a bit more ethical in his PR efforts, he'd acknowledge that and just not try to drag them through the mud like this. But he's not, so we see crap like this in our mainstream media. :mad:

Well, what can you expect from Tierney&Co,no one else pays them any attention so they have to grab at anything to put their little poisionious view across.

I wish that was true, but they tend to push Green policy a lot, even if not as much as they want to. And while they shape public opinion, they shape the obstacles we have to overcome every time firearms legislation comes up for debate...

homerhop

John_Rambo wrote: »

I may not have articulated myself properly there homerhop.

I see your point, it is good to have right minded people roaming around secluded areas at night, if there was no hunting, that girl would surely be dead by now. I have come across crime on my blitzes around the countryside (nothing as serious as that), I have also found dead bodies and have been involved in searches for missing people because my skills allow me to go where a lot of people can't. I guess catching a criminal red handed is a by product of your hunting, albeit a very good by product! But, I wouldn't use it as a 'defense' because you don't need to defend yourselves against the likes of that guy in the Tribune.

Am I making sense?

I have no issue with game hunting at all. The only issue I have is that I sometimes find it hard to get my hands on wild shot game.

My apologies, twas the way I took you up on your first post.

Sparks

John_Rambo wrote: »

Grisly. They would. Murphy legged it as soon as he was spotted. Now either I hang around with incredibly nice people or I just put too much faith in humanity, but, I reckon 99% of people would help the girl.

I wish that was true, but every sociological experiment run from WW2 to today proves that it isn't, and not because of poor parenting or whatever, but because that's human nature. Milligram showed that the vast majority of people would kill someone just because someone with a clipboard and a lab coat told them to. Zimbardo showed that any group of people would mistreat any other group of people horribly, even in wildly artificial circumstances, and that the effect was so pronounced that even those studying it would be sucked into it and the experiment would need outside intervention to cease the mistreatment.

Humans - at least when there's more than one around - just aren't nice creatures when you get down to it, regardless of what Disney has to say on the matter. That's why these men deserve better than what the Tribune just let Tierney do to them.

Grizzly 45

John_Rambo wrote: »

Grisly. They would. Murphy legged it as soon as he was spotted. Now either I hang around with incredibly nice people or I just put too much faith in humanity, but, I reckon 99% of people would help the girl.

As humans with our advanced altruism. Hunter, non hunter, normal people will help a girl in that much distress.

Guess you do Rambo!Hang around with too many nice people and have too much faith in humanity!
Were this true,we wouldnt need police forces,armies,a judical system or wars for that matter.By and large,humanity isnt a very nice race of critters.
But we could always put it to the test.Go and piss off a bunch of gurriers in any city of our land on any Sat night.Once they are putting the boot into you.See how many of the 99% of nice people will come over to help out.:D

John_Rambo

Sparks wrote: »

Which is nice PR for us

OK, good point. I guess it's the same point you have all been making. I agree. It's without a doubt a good thing that hunters were out that night. It's good for your cause and certainly takes the wind out of this Tierney fella's sails.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Which is nice PR for us, and probably sticks in Tierney's craw a bit; but really, they were lots of other things as well, and the only thing that was relevant to this instance was that they were good people who stepped in and saved a life at risk to their own

That too Sparks,but ...Ahem what do hunters usually carry??? That in this case might be a great assistance;)

. If Tierney was a bit more ethical in his PR efforts, he'd acknowledge thatand just not try to drag them through the mud like this. But he's not, so we see crap like this in our mainstream media. :mad:

Ethics with the antis?...Novel concept!This one stuck in Tierneys craw all right because it is a double whammy,hunters and guns ..Two things he hates as an anti.Last time he tried to use a family shooting over land as an arguement for gun bans last year.So if you are that morally bankrupt moralitywise and argumentwise.Can you be taken seriously,all it needs is good exposure of this to destroy him.

I wish that was true, but they tend to push Green policy a lot, even if not as much as they want to. And while they shape public opinion, they shape the obstacles we have to overcome every time firearms legislation comes up for debate...

They do on the hunting side sofar ,but more on horse and hound,which is imported class warfare than anything.It is our own PTB who have given us the crap laws on firearms.I doubt very much that the nasty little man and his boyfriend Factna sat down and had a good chat on what gun laws Tierney,Fitzgerald et all would like in Ireland.

homerhop

The wind will never be taken out of his ilk because no matter what facts are put in front of them, their total devotion to their cause and hatred for our sport will not allow otherwise. All we can do is every time they go on their crusade and getting their letters published is to reply with facts to the papers that publish them. The man is a thug and has aligned his name to organisations that are nothing more than terrorists. These people cause uproar in the defence of animals yet have no qualms in seeing humans hurt.

virminhunter

homerhop wrote: »

These people cause uproar in the defence of animals yet have no qualms in seeing humans hurt.

they've no qualms in seeing wildlife hurt either, breaking into mink farms and realeasing hundreds of foreign predators to rape and pilage mother natures natural balance, that we hunters work so hard to maintain...

John_Rambo

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Go and piss off a bunch of gurriers in any city

Any city, any town, any village, any by-road. But, no, I won't, not only am I altruistic, I am also intelligent and very streetwise!

kildare.17hmr

Has any1 any dealings with these people? I havent heard much about them so i checked out their website and all they seem to do is name call and crash partys in hotels to protest. The website hasnt been updated in years apart from the press clippings section and they appear to have nicked bunny shooters avatar:D

Sparks

I think the Hunt Sabs are a step too far for overt support even from the Greens kildare17hmr, unlike ICABS who have all manner of luminaries on their roll call list.

But to be honest, I've never understood how either group has managed to avoid legal action from the NARGC for all these years (legal action over defamation, that is).

kildare.17hmr

I was thinking the same myself about the legal action. I doubt many lads who hunt alone or with small groups of friends have had much dealings with them that it would be the clubs ect or am i wrong?

homerhop

http://www.huntsabsireland.org/shooting.htm
This will show you what you are dealing with, even companies making signs are targeted by these people. Perhaps we should get the names and addresses of the people or companies that they work for on a daily basis and start petitioning them about hiring people that support terrorist organisations

homerhop

Sparks wrote: »

But to be honest, I've never understood how either group has managed to avoid legal action from the NARGC for all these years (legal action over defamation, that is).

Too busy in house fighting and taking legal actions over it

kildare.17hmr

homerhop wrote: »

Perhaps we should get the names and addresses of the people or companies that they work for on a daily basis and start petitioning them about hiring people that support terrorist organisations

Ya no thats not actually a bad idea homerhop, if i like them had no life besides complaining about things i might just be tempted:p

tfox

homerhop wrote: »

http://www.huntsabsireland.org/shooting.htm
This will show you what you are dealing with, even companies making signs are targeted by these people. Perhaps we should get the names and addresses of the people or companies that they work for on a daily basis and start petitioning them about hiring people that support terrorist organisations

These c**** were even outside my local hunt kennels <mod snip>

http://www.huntsabsireland.org/apps/photos/photo?photoid=67456568