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AIB employee perks

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    #92
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Many seem to be missing the point by saying it's been misreported (that's a separate issue about journalistic standards). This is like Dempsey saying that ihis jet trip wasn't 100,000 it was only 13,500. Whatever amount it is, it is still inappropriate and unaffordable under the current circumstances.


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    #93
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    kceire wrote: »
    where can this free coffee be got?
    ive never had any :D


    I used to be a civil servant and we used to get free coffee or tea from time to time. Once, we were even treated to some chocolate eclairs (but only once) ;)


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    #94
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    Laminations wrote: »
    Why do you see it as punishment? It's just reality. You wanted facts? FACT: AIB are broke and are being bailed out. Do you dispute this? Now I'm fully aware other companies have social clubs, the question is can a broke company afford to have a social club? Did you see the imposition of levies on lowly paid clerical officers in the PS as punishment or did you rightly recognise it as necessary?

    Hang on a second why are you leaving out the full post? the facts are the story is based on Misinformation and LIES..

    Anything after this is irrelevant as any argument is based on heresay. Your ranting and raving with nothing to back up your statements.

    Your trying to put words in my mouth mentioning the clerical officers in the PS i never mentioned them so stick that argument up your hole.


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    #95
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Laminations wrote: »
    Many seem to be missing the point by saying it's been misreported (that's a separate issue about journalistic standards). This is like Dempsey saying that ihis jet trip wasn't 100,000 it was only 13,500. Whatever amount it is, it is still inappropriate and unaffordable under the current circumstances.

    Most larger companies have many parts to their renumeration packages. What is it specifically that makes a gym membership benefit different to a share options scheme, a pension contribution, a health insurance benefit, an annual leave allowance above the statutory minimum, or even core pay?

    Should all AIB staff be reduced to working for minimum wage with no benefits because the company is broke?


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    #96
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    My argument is simple and does not require clarification of lies or misreporting in the press. It's based on two facts. AIB spend money on a social club (could be hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, doesn't matter). AIB are effectively broke. Now if you can dispute these facts go ahead otherwise youll have to reconcile those facts.


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    #97
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    dvpower wrote: »
    Most larger companies have many parts to their renumeration packages. What is it specifically...

    AIB are broke, I'm not complaining about Googles social club here, Google aren't broke


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    #98
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,487 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Laminations wrote: »
    AIB are broke, I'm not complaining about Googles social club here, Google aren't broke

    And cutting a tiny percentage from payroll will not change this. Infact it will make it worse, employees get pissed off, productivity drops so costs go up...


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    #99
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    And cutting a tiny percentage from payroll will not change this. Infact it will make it worse, employees get pissed off, productivity drops so costs go up...

    If th staff get pissed off they can always pay for their own socials. Productivity in such a broke institution should be maintained by self preservation. I'm sure staff will be more pissed off over the impending job cuts


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    #100
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Laminations wrote: »
    If th staff get pissed off they can always pay for their own socials. Productivity in such a broke institution should be maintained by self preservation. I'm sure staff will be more pissed off over the impending job cuts

    Agreed.

    AIB, it's managements and it's employees, need to realise but for the taxpayers the majority of them would be out of a job.


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    #101
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,487 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    hinault wrote: »
    Agreed.

    AIB, it's managements and it's employees, need to realise but for the taxpayers the majority of them would be out of a job.

    true but the gov bailed them out pretty much unconditionally and now they can do what they want with the money without fear pretty much.

    The Gov are the real problem here in this whole thing, not the employee perks


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    #102
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Laminations wrote: »
    AIB are broke, I'm not complaining about Googles social club here, Google aren't broke

    But specifically, what is it about social club membership that has you focussed on this particular element of the overall renumeration package?

    If you're concerned about staff costs in AIB, why not complain about that and let the HR people in AIB design the renumerations package based on the available budget.


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    #103
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Laminations wrote: »
    If th staff get pissed off they can always pay for their own socials. Productivity in such a broke institution should be maintained by self preservation. I'm sure staff will be more pissed off over the impending job cuts

    The impending job cuts afaik are voluntary. They'll be done by natural wastage and voluntary incentivised redundancies.
    They follow on from massive staff reductions already imposed accross the banking sector.


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    #104
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    true but the gov bailed them out pretty much unconditionally and now they can do what they want with the money without fear pretty much.

    The Gov are the real problem here in this whole thing, not the employee perks

    From an AIB employees perspective, the goverment are the solution.

    But for this govt, the majority of AIB employees and management would be out of a job.


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    #105
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Without AIB and BoI who benefited from the bailout, it'd be fairly hard to get a loan.


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    #106
    Fighting Irish
    Registered Users Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭Fighting Irish


    talla10 wrote: »
    According to Fine Gael which was later confirmed by AIB, AIB bank spends €2,500 annually on each employee for their social and gym memberships when last week they described as crucial the decision to raise interest rates by 0.5%. This is an absolute disgrace why are we bailing out banks when they cant't even cut back on these kinds of perks when the rest of us cant put food on the table or pay or bills because of cutbacks and job losses??:mad::mad:

    Sort your own life out and stop blaming others


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    #107
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    dvpower wrote: »
    Should all AIB staff be reduced to working for minimum wage with no benefits because the company is broke?

    Well if any of the rest of us worked for a company that was not only "broke", but a few billion in the red, then we'd be unemployed, because the government wouldn't give our company billions in taxpayers' money.

    So the answer, quite plainly, is "yes".


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    #108
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,487 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Well if any of the rest of us worked for a company that was not only "broke", but a few billion in the red, then we'd be unemployed, because the government wouldn't give our company billions in taxpayers' money.

    So the answer, quite plainly, is "yes".

    like any other Irish bank, UK banks, many car companies, IE, DB, BE, the entire PS? the list is endless...


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    #109
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Look the perks should be scrapped, pay should be reviewed. Why am I focusing on this element of the remuneration package? Because I believe in a fair days pay for a fair days work. Basic remuneration is your entitlement for doing a job, if a company can't afford to pay you fairly then they can't afford to stay open. I'm against tax payers money going in but if it must I think covering basic pay is the most palatable use, paying for thrills and frills, social clubs and other perks is unnecessary and inappropriate, regardless of the amounts involved - it's the use of the money. If morale is low it's not up to the tax payer to cheer staff up, we don't send chequess to the local butcher who's business is suffering so he can spend a Saturday on the golf course. Anything on top of basic pay should be scrapped until the company can stand on it's own feet and invest in their staff


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    #110
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    like any other Irish bank, UK banks, many car companies, IE, DB, BE, the entire PS? the list is endless...

    Any other bank, fair enough.

    But show me where billions had to be provided to any other company in Ireland ?

    AIB & the other banks were so far under that they were in Australia.

    By ANY rules (including the ones they apply to mortgage-holders and small business, but apparently they didn't bother applying to Haughey) they would be closed down by now.

    There used to be an old saying that "beggars can't be choosers".....if you're begging you take what you can get and have no option regarding any preconditions or rules.

    Unfortunately, it only applies to beggars on the streets and not to the beggars that went to Lenihan in Sept 2008, whereby Lenihan didn't even bother making proper rules that could be enforced in return for the bailout.


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    #111
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Well if any of the rest of us worked for a company that was not only "broke", but a few billion in the red, then we'd be unemployed, because the government wouldn't give our company billions in taxpayers' money.

    So the answer, quite plainly, is "yes".


    Seriously?
    You think all AIB staff should have their salaries reduced to the minimum wage? Bizarre.


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    #112
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Laminations wrote: »
    Anything on top of basic pay should be scrapped until the company can stand on it's own feet and invest in their staff

    Why stop at basic pay?
    Surely if the company is broke, you would expect it to look at the basic pay rates to make savings since this accounts for the major component of the renumeration package.

    Wouldn't it be better if you wanted to make savings at the bank, to set a lower overall pay and pensions budget and leave it to their HR people to decide how to structure this to best attract, retain, incentivise and motivate staff.


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    #113
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,487 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Any other bank, fair enough.

    But show me where billions had to be provided to any other company in Ireland ?

    Dell, not billions, but hundred of millions flushed down the toilet in grants and tax breaks and so forth to them and now they've just ****ed off...


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    #114
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Dell, not billions, but hundred of millions flushed down the toilet in grants and tax breaks and so forth to them and now they've just ****ed off...

    What was unclear about the question ? :confused:
    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    But show me where billions had to be provided to any other company in Ireland ?

    Millions - although worth querying and certainly worthy of discussion elsewhere -could possibly be justifiable between wages, taxes and the wider economy and service industry around Dell.

    Dell also didn't get into difficulties based 100% on their own greed and ineptitude, and to my knowledge - despite the recession - haven't been on the verge of collapse.


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    #115
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    dvpower wrote: »
    Seriously?
    You think all AIB staff should have their salaries reduced to the minimum wage? Bizarre.

    Why is it bizarre ?

    Their employer is almost bankrupt. Why else would they need money from us ?

    It's hard enough for me to earn my own money, let alone pay extra taxes and/or interest so that AIB staff earn more than the minimum wage.

    If AIB (or any other banks) make money, let them pay their staff more - I've no huge issue with that.

    But until they stop paying executives a half a million a year and giving other perks that they don't have the money for, it's far more "bizarre" that I should have to contribute more to those.


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    #116
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    This story broke on a three minute segment on Liveline on Tuesday.
    Maybe broke isn't the correct term, the details were not secret but it wasn't being discussed before.
    Goes to show what kind of influence that show has.

    If they can get a current topic people feel strongly about it can explode over the media. And then you have the opposition front bench making comments.

    And all from a 3 minute segment.
    Just an observation, that's all


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    #117
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,487 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    What was unclear about the question ? :confused:
    .

    there not all that much difference between hundreds of millions and thousands of millions tbh so don't be so snotty about tit.


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    #118
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Why is it bizarre ?

    Their employer is almost bankrupt. Why else would they need money from us ?

    It's hard enough for me to earn my own money, let alone pay extra taxes and/or interest so that AIB staff earn more than the minimum wage.

    If AIB (or any other banks) make money, let them pay their staff more - I've no huge issue with that.

    But until they stop paying executives a half a million a year and giving other perks that they don't have the money for, it's far more "bizarre" that I should have to contribute more to those.

    Em, reducing the wages of all staff in AIB to the minimum wage would mean that all but the most lowly paid Bank Assistants would leave. The bank would cease to operate.

    So after spending billions on bailing it out, you want to see it implode. That's bizarre.


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    #119
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    there not all that much difference between hundreds of millions and thousands of millions tbh so don't be so snotty about tit.

    On what planet ? :eek:

    Tell you what, so....send me a cheque for that "not all that much difference" and we'll call it quits!

    There's a MASSIVE difference between, say, €500 and €5,000 alone, let alone multiplying both of those by a million!
    dvpower wrote: »
    Em, reducing the wages of all staff in AIB to the minimum wage would mean that all but the most lowly paid Bank Assistants would leave. The bank would cease to operate.

    Where would they leave to, exactly ?

    And if they choose to leave, there are plenty of talented unemployed or working-but-barely-paid people available to take their place.

    I don't mean to be cruel or unfair to anyone decent who is working in banks, but the fact is that their employer has no money, the state has no money, and I'm not willing to pay anything extra so that they can get perks, because that too is unfair.


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    #120
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    And if they choose to leave, there are plenty of talented unemployed or working-but-barely-paid people available to take their place.

    You really think there are plently of qualified banking professionals that are currently unemployed who would be willing to work for minumum wage?

    Seriously? Maybe there are some people who could do some of the junior clerical stuff, but the specialist banking and IT roles? Really?


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    #121
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    dvpower wrote: »
    You really think there are plently of qualified banking professionals that are currently unemployed who would be willing to work for minumum wage?

    Seriously? Maybe there are some people who could do some of the junior clerical stuff, but the specialist banking and IT roles? Really?

    Well they certainly shouldn't be in a position to demand much, given that their employer is in financial trouble.

    If they have a problem with that, they should take it up with their employer (who seemingly has no problem forking out half a million or so to their previously astronomically incompetent heads).

    All I'm saying is that I should have no obligation to pay for their perks, even if I could afford to do so.


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