AIB employee perks

talla10

According to Fine Gael which was later confirmed by AIB, AIB bank spends €2,500 annually on each employee for their social and gym memberships when last week they described as crucial the decision to raise interest rates by 0.5%. This is an absolute disgrace why are we bailing out banks when they cant't even cut back on these kinds of perks when the rest of us cant put food on the table or pay or bills because of cutbacks and job losses??:mad::mad:

Random

how does it cost 2500 for a gym membership?

wicklowdub

Bit of a non-story this.

The couple of million that they spend wouldnt put a dent in the black hole that is the banking crisis. What it does do is give a small bit of business to community centres, local gyms and golf courses. It also supposed to help keep fat feckers that little bit fitter in the hope that they dont die or clog up the health service. Plus loads of companies do this.

I'd be more worried about the fact that they are probably going to layoff about 2000 people of the next 2 years, I'd rather they paid the gym fees and kept the staff on.

BornToKill

Random wrote: »

how does it cost 2500 for a gym membership?

€6950 plus VAT for this annual membership. I understand that AIB pays 50% of the gym or social membership fee and the employee pays the balance.

mikemac

BornToKill wrote: »

I understand that AIB pays 50% of the gym or social membership fee and the employee pays the balance.

Exactly and BIK on this.
Realy, lots of companies do this. Not up to that level but certainly get a corporate rate at gyms, golf courses or other clubs.

Non story
And most staff won't hit the 2,500 limit, few enough would be paying thousands and thousands on golf clubs and gyms.
You can join excellent gyms for even 400 euro a year. AIB would pay 200 in that case

And if you can't put food on the table then you need help OP, don't post things like that just for dramatic effect.

Aer Lingus have ALSAA, now that's an even better deal then this! Amazing clubs and facilites up there, lucky them

Head The Wall

Aren't Jackie Skelly's gyms only around the €250 mark in Dublin?

waster81

wicklowdub wrote: »

Bit of a non-story this.

The couple of million that they spend wouldnt put a dent in the black hole that is the banking crisis. What it does do is give a small bit of business to community centres, local gyms and golf courses. It also supposed to help keep fat feckers that little bit fitter in the hope that they dont die or clog up the health service. Plus loads of companies do this.

I'd be more worried about the fact that they are probably going to layoff about 2000 people of the next 2 years, I'd rather they paid the gym fees and kept the staff on.

Why keep the staff on, the are losing money no need for all the staff they have at the minute, why would banks be any different.

The perks should be withdrawn it doesnt matter how small the amount is, fact is they are loss making and have to cut costs. A limit of €2500 what gym are we sending the bankers to.

Cookie_Monster

so? every major company provides benefit like this to their employees.

waster81

feelingstressed wrote: »

Exactly and BIK on this.
Realy, lots of companies do this. Not up to that level but certainly get a corporate rate at gyms, golf courses or other clubs.

Non story
And most staff won't hit the 2,500 limit, few enough would be paying thousands and thousands on golf clubs and gyms.
You can join excellent gyms for even 400 euro a year. AIB would pay 200 in that case

And if you can't put food on the table then you need help OP, don't post things like that just for dramatic effect.

Aer Lingus have ALSAA, now that's an even better deal then this! Amazing clubs and facilites up there, lucky them

Do all these other companies receive huge tax payer bail outs. The banks have to cut costs all costs no matter how small - employees will just have to pay out of there own wages like the majority of people.

The banks have to cut costs, its just a sympton of how bank employees feel they should be treated different.

waster81

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so? every major company provides benefit like this to their employees.

Oh which of these other major companies, are receiving tax payer bail outs

talla10

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so? every major company provides benefit like this to their employees.

yes but not every major company requires billions of state owned assests to operate in business. The amount of people who lost their jobs or have have levies imposed and wages reduced for these banks who then increase interest rates that are 'essestial' for them to make profits...at the same time providing these extravagant benefits to employee's!!!surely when the banks were in danger of collapse they should have cut these benefits and other costs and taken other courses of actions to stay in business before asking for a bailout!!the majority of people are enduring very harsh times whilst bank employee's still have gym and social events paid by them by the banks that we as taxpayers injected billions into!!isnt anyone else infuriated??

Sean Bateman

talla10 wrote: »

yes but not every major company requires billions of state owned assests to operate in business. The amount of people who lost their jobs or have have levies imposed and wages reduced for these banks who then increase interest rates that are 'essestial' for them to make profits...at the same time providing these extravagant benefits to employee's!!!surely when the banks were in danger of collapse they should have cut these benefits and other costs and taken other courses of actions to stay in business before asking for a bailout!!the majority of people are enduring very harsh times whilst bank employee's still have gym and social events paid by them by the banks that we as taxpayers injected billions into!!isnt anyone else infuriated??

They don't. The benefits are taxed (i.e. BIK).

dvpower

talla10 wrote: »

According to Fine Gael which was later confirmed by AIB, AIB bank spends €2,500 annually on each employee for their social and gym memberships when last week they described as crucial the decision to raise interest rates by 0.5%.

That's not true at all. AIB does not spend €2,500 annually on each employee. Staff who choose to take out memberships can avail of the scheme, and the maximum amount is €2,500, depending on rank. Every employee of the bank does not avail of the scheme and of those who do, most do not get the full €2,500.

talla10 wrote: »

This is an absolute disgrace why are we bailing out banks when they cant't even cut back on these kinds of perks when the rest of us cant put food on the table or pay or bills because of cutbacks and job losses??:mad::mad:

What's a disgrace? Misrepresenting the facts?

mikemac

waster81 wrote: »

A limit of €2500 what gym are we sending the bankers to.

Read the posts.
It's not just for gyms.
An employee has to pay 5,000 per year to reach this limit. There only a handful of golf courses in the country that charge over this.
Plus you pay BIK on it.

Only a small fraction of staff would hit this 2,500 limit. Do you know anyone who spends 5,000 a year on gyms and golf memberships?

Now don't have a heart attack over this waster81 :eek:
AIB pays heath insurance and for professional exams for their staff also.
For some reason they want to help their staff upskill, what outrage

Better cut these perks too I suppose

waster81

feelingstressed wrote: »

Read the posts.
It's not just for gyms.
An employee has to pay 5,000 per year to reach this limit. There only a handful of golf courses in the country that charge over this.
Plus you pay BIK on it.

Only a small fraction of staff would hit this 2,500 limit. Do you know anyone who spends 5,000 a year on gyms and golf memberships?

Now don't have a heart attack over this waster81 :eek:
AIB pays heath insurance and for professional exams for their staff also.
For some reason they want to help their staff upskill, what outrage

Better cut these perks too I suppose

Why the limit so - cut it down to €500 when they start to make profit again and aint relyin on tax payer for a bail out - until then pay outta their own pocket

Money spent upskilling their employees you having a laugh, these the same employees that caused all the problems - money well spent - you said it yourself outrageous

mikemac

Yes all AIB staff caused all the problems :pac:

Even the lady who cashes your cheque and wants to do a course on team leadership so she can apply to be an officer.
Her especially!

You're throwing out terms like bankers as if these are not even real people.

Relax.
And try to understand how this 2,500 limit works. You came in all guns blazing without even reading posts.

waster81

feelingstressed wrote: »

Yes all AIB staff caused all the problems :pac:

Even the lady who cashes your cheque and wants to do a course on team leadership so she can apply to be an officer.
Her especially!

You're throwing out terms like bankers as if these are not even real people.

Relax.
And try to understand how this 2,500 limit works. You came in all guns blazing without even reading posts.

The banks have to cut costs that are not necessary and these are one of them.

Did i say she caused the problems - you said they upskilled their staff i very much doubt it from the level of service one receives in a bank.

wow touchin a sore point with the bankers - i think you need to relax take a deep breath

mikemac

You know if you're replying to somebody directly above you , you don't need to quote them?
Every single time

If you received poor service in a branch and did nothing about it, that is your fault. Officers and managers are there to escalate complaints to so use them. Well as a taxpayer I'm sure you'll say "I pay your wages!"
Or do you sit there, fume at poor service and moan on boards

Welease

waster81 wrote: »

Oh which of these other major companies, are receiving tax payer bail outs

I may be wrong, but weren't you in favour of the CP agreement, which maintained the benefits and unnecessary swathes of staff in the public sector, whose employer is essentially broke?

waster81

lol - thanks and your telling me to relax serious problems

Ren2k7

People here seem to be missing the point the OP was making. AIB is haemorrhaging money and needs the state to bail it out. Any savings, no matter how small, will go towards reducing the amount the taxpayers, you, me and everyone in the state, will have to contribute to the rotten mess that is the Irish banking system.

As for the argument that the perks given to staff represent some kind of boost to gyms and health clubs, since when was it a banks responsibility to provide economic stimulus money, loans excluded of course.

waster81

feelingstressed wrote: »

You know if you're replying to somebody directly above you , you don't need to quote them?
Every single time

If you received poor service in a branch and did nothing about it, that is your fault. Officers and managers are there to escalate complaints to so use them. Well as a taxpayer I'm sure you'll say "I pay your wages!"
Or do you sit there, fume at poor service and moan on boards

Have io got your premission to quote you now

So your just making up things i say now - where did i say i did nothing about it - for your info contacted manager and surprisingly nothing happened

lol

Sean Bateman

waster81 wrote: »

The banks have to cut costs that are not necessary and these are one of them.

Did i say she caused the problems - you said they upskilled their staff i very much doubt it from the level of service one receives in a bank.

wow touchin a sore point with the bankers - i think you need to relax take a deep breath

You're using this ridiculous catch all phrase "bankers".

It's a ridiculous phrase which lumps the lowly bank teller in with Seanie Fitz.

waster81

Welease wrote: »

I may be wrong, but weren't you in favour of the CP agreement, which maintained the benefits and unnecessary swathes of staff in the public sector, whose employer is essentially broke?

Other companies in the private sector receiving bail outs who are still paying out perks which should be cut as part of cost cutting exercise - feel free to name them

Welease

waster81 wrote: »

Other companies in the private sector receiving bail outs who are still paying out perks which should be cut as part of cost cutting exercise - feel free to name them

Thats not what I asked

Did you not support the CP agreement? (if I am wrong, no offense meant)..

I can't see how you could support one, and be aggrieved with the other..

waster81

main question re topic thread asked not answered

why do aib employees feel they should receive the perks when banks are receiving bail outs - loss making - they are looking for areas to cut and save money for their shareholders - so why not cut these

Cookie_Monster

talla10 wrote: »

yes but not every major company requires billions of state owned assests to operate in business. The amount of people who lost their jobs or have have levies imposed and wages reduced for these banks who then increase interest rates that are 'essestial' for them to make profits...at the same time providing these extravagant benefits to employee's!!!surely when the banks were in danger of collapse they should have cut these benefits and other costs and taken other courses of actions to stay in business before asking for a bailout!!the majority of people are enduring very harsh times whilst bank employee's still have gym and social events paid by them by the banks that we as taxpayers injected billions into!!isnt anyone else infuriated??

then all the employees would be taking them to court for breach of contract and/or look for compensation.

secondly the vast majority of those employees did nothing wrong, why should they be punished?


They will be looking for upwards of 3,000 redundancies soon enough anyway so plenty of savings there...

BOI will have similar benefits and neither of these is a patch on the public sector benefits

cyclopath2001

Sean Bateman wrote: »

It's a ridiculous phrase which lumps the lowly bank teller in with Seanie Fitz.

Indeed, their role in bringing the country to its knees and in destroying the savings of many trusting individuals and in imposing hugh tax levies and pay cuts on businesses and workers (for decades to come) to bail out their companies failed investments was that they "were only following orders".

I think stopping the perks of staff in state-supported insititutions, such as AIB might be a very healthy reality check.

Welease

waster81 wrote: »

main question re topic thread asked not answered

why do aib employees feel they should receive the perks when banks are receiving bail outs - loss making - they are looking for areas to cut and save money for their shareholders - so why not cut these

We both know the answer... because the government are willing to dish out taxpayers money to many companies and services with scant regard to value for money..

As usual for Ireland, some people are happy when they get to benefit directly from this type of lax fiscal management, but whensome else is the recipient their moral outrage knows no bounds....

murphaph

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

secondly the vast majority of those employees did nothing wrong, why should they be punished?

They are not being "punished". Their employers are broke, requiring the taxpayer to bail them out. If it wasn't for the taxpayer, these employees would all be unemployed.

It's no different than the PS: the state is broke too, so their pay has to be cut. Right waster81?

talla10

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

secondly the vast majority of those employees did nothing wrong, why should they be punished?


They will be looking for upwards of 3,000 redundancies soon enough anyway so plenty of savings there...

i never said any employee did anything wrong i'd just making the point that when a business such as AIB is losing the money it reports that is is then they have to look at where to make savings and these social and gym payments should be done away to save money!!

and if they do away with these expenses maybe they wont need 3,000 redundancies they may save enough money to save jobs!!

and what did any other employee who has lost their jobs in last 2 years do wrong??

Cookie_Monster

Its still breach of contract. the unions in AIB will never allow those kind of things to be cut without major hassle and strikes


edit: lets not forget that the gov are getting millions of cheap AIB shares in return for the investment and will do extremely well out of the ownership in the long term...

Welease

talla10 wrote: »

According to Fine Gael which was later confirmed by AIB, AIB bank spends €2,500 annually on each employee for their social and gym memberships when last week they described as crucial the decision to raise interest rates by 0.5%. This is an absolute disgrace why are we bailing out banks when they cant't even cut back on these kinds of perks when the rest of us cant put food on the table or pay or bills because of cutbacks and job losses??:mad::mad:

and...

talla10 wrote: »

everybody accepts this and most are willing to take some pain to put the country right but the public sector has been squeezed already there is no more money to be gained in more cuts 1.3 Billion Euro was cut in last budget alone from public sector. Most are hard working decent people trying to make ends meet and this wedge between private and public sectors only serves the government to screw us all over united we stand divided we fall and there is one hell of a divide there now!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64360573&postcount=139

/confused....

mikemac

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Its still breach of contract. the unions in AIB will never allow those kind of things to be cut without major hassle and strikes

IBOA are toothless
They have never recovered from 1992.

They have a high membership but little power

amacca

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

lets not forget that the gov are getting millions of cheap AIB shares in return for the investment and will do extremely well out of the ownership in the long term...

Do you really believe the above? genuine curiosity, with AIB looking like selling some of their more valuable assets, downsizing and being constrained to operating in this country on life support for the foreseeable future I cant see their share value rising substantially for a good long while...at least not until long after govt has offloaded them

but obviously I cant predict the future and in addition I don't know much about the situation.... just wondering if govt are getting the shares discounted or free in return for bailout and what you think they will actually stand to make out of the transaction if you subtract how much they are putting in?

in response to the OP I too like a number of other posters think this is a bit of non-issue...mostly small amounts/BIK/ business for health clubs, gyms/ massive job losses coming at these banks in the very near future ---- seems a waste of time being outraged by this when there are so many other more substantial issues I think people should be getting outraged about.

Laminations

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

then all the employees would be taking them to court for breach of contract and/or look for compensation.

Because this happened with the PS pension levy/pay cut (which was necessary)? was that not a breach of contract?

secondly the vast majority of those employees did nothing wrong, why should they be punished?

Neither did anyone in the lower levels of the PS but the fact is their employer is broke and cuts need to be made.

They will be looking for upwards of 3,000 redundancies soon enough anyway so plenty of savings there...

Cuts are necessary as well as redundancies ala the PS. Just like the PS unnecessary spending needs to be cut, perks need to be cut and it has to start from the top down.

On top of these cuts to perks we need a banking sector pay and pension levy mirroring the PS levy. Did AIB staff get a raise only last year? I think it was tellers but they are still working for a broke employer being bailed out by a broke state.

Little Miss Fun

feelingstressed wrote: »

Read the posts.
It's not just for gyms.
An employee has to pay 5,000 per year to reach this limit. There only a handful of golf courses in the country that charge over this.
Plus you pay BIK on it.

Only a small fraction of staff would hit this 2,500 limit. Do you know anyone who spends 5,000 a year on gyms and golf memberships?

Now don't have a heart attack over this waster81 :eek:
AIB pays heath insurance and for professional exams for their staff also.
For some reason they want to help their staff upskill, what outrage

Better cut these perks too I suppose

Yes they should- I pay my own health insurance. If I want to join a gym I wouldnt expect the tax payers of Ireland to subsidise it for me.

Welease

Laminations wrote: »

On top of these cuts to perks we need a banking sector pay and pension levy mirroring the PS levy. Did AIB staff get a raise only last year? I think it was tellers but they are still working for a broke employer being bailed out by a broke state.

This was on the cards, not sure if it was implemented
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-staff-asked-for-4pc-of-salary-in-bid-to-tackle-pension-deficit-2004628.html

Put in perspective.. AIB's pension scheme defecit if 1.26 billion.. the PS pension scheme defecit is over 105 billion (not it's not missing a decimal point )

Laminations

Welease wrote: »

This was on the cards, not sure if it was implemented
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-staff-asked-for-4pc-of-salary-in-bid-to-tackle-pension-deficit-2004628.html

Put in perspective.. AIB's pension scheme defecit if 1.26 billion.. the PS pension scheme defecit is over 105 billion (not it's not missing a decimal point )

They are not exactly of comparable sizes. Bottom line is the bank is broke and squeezing it's customers while they are continuing to waste money on employee perks - the PS ATF also continuing to do this most notably at government level with ministerial cars, jet trips to give speeches and unvouched expenses. It's not a huge issue for me, all things in context, but it is annoying just like the 2 fingers we get from our government

Welease

Laminations wrote: »

They are not exactly of comparable sizes. Bottom line is the bank is broke and squeezing it's customers while they are continuing to waste money on employee perks - the PS ATF also continuing to do this most notably at government level with ministerial cars, jet trips to give speeches and unvouched expenses. It's not a huge issue for me, all things in context, but it is annoying just like the 2 fingers we get from our government

No disagreement from me there they need to cut these out.. was just posting that it looked like some type of levy was being introduced this year as per your suggestion (no idea if it finally was)

hinault

talla10 wrote: »

yes but not every major company requires billions of state owned assests to operate in business. The amount of people who lost their jobs or have have levies imposed and wages reduced for these banks who then increase interest rates that are 'essestial' for them to make profits...at the same time providing these extravagant benefits to employee's!!!surely when the banks were in danger of collapse they should have cut these benefits and other costs and taken other courses of actions to stay in business before asking for a bailout!!the majority of people are enduring very harsh times whilst bank employee's still have gym and social events paid by them by the banks that we as taxpayers injected billions into!!isnt anyone else infuriated??

Exactly.
The taxpayer owns AIB now and every euro needs to be fully accounted for within AIB.

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Exactly.
The taxpayer owns AIB now and every euro needs to be fully accounted for within AIB.

We havent managed to do that with the myriad of services we already provide.. why would we succeed with our latest aquisition?

hinault

Welease wrote: »

We havent managed to do that with the myriad of services we already provide.. why would we succeed with our latest aquisition?

Doesn't mean that every euro should not be accounted.

AIB and it's employees need to realise that the State/taxpayer own AIB now.

Thoie

Oddly enough, I'm not too worried about AIB staff getting some gym membership paid. If there was a gym on the premises, as some companies have, would we be suggesting that be closed down? What about the cycle to work scheme, which is also paid from our taxes - should bank staff not get that either?

Citizen_Cutback

Welease wrote: »

This was on the cards, not sure if it was implemented
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-staff-asked-for-4pc-of-salary-in-bid-to-tackle-pension-deficit-2004628.html

Put in perspective.. AIB's pension scheme defecit if 1.26 billion.. the PS pension scheme defecit is over 105 billion (not it's not missing a decimal point )

It would be nice if you could give some references to your statement above.

My understanding is that there are 440,000 Public Servants currently serving with a current annual employer supplement of €0.8 billion being paid towards current Public Service pension payments; this figure includes Firemen, Gardai, Nurses, Prison Officers, Army personnel, Teachers/ Academics etc... as well as the Judiciary, Politicians and Medical Consultants.

How many people work in AIB?

Has any AIB employee ever died protecting Irish citizens?

Please compare Like with Like! Thanks.

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Doesn't mean that every euro should not be accounted.

AIB and it's employees need to realise that the State/taxpayer own AIB now.

Again no disagreement.. but we won't see that.. (and I don't think we actually own AIB yet, they are still trying to raise capital to avoid that)

Look at who will be doing the accounting.. then look at their other organisations.. FAS.. HSE... We don't have a fantastic record of accounting for every Euro..

donkey balls

most companies have certain privilages for their employees Aerlingus staff get free airline tickets or reduced costs on travel,my old company paid for VHI had free travel around the world on company aircraft till 9/11 happened:mad: plus the normal pension fund.
Dublin bus/CIE staff get free/discounted travel

hinault

Welease wrote: »

Again no disagreement.. but we won't see that.. (and I don't think we actually own AIB yet, they are still trying to raise capital to avoid that)

Look at who will be doing the accounting.. then look at their other organisations.. FAS.. HSE... We don't have a fantastic record of accounting for every Euro..

Two wrongs don't make a right.

AIB is in receipt of billions from the taxpayer to clear up commerical mistakes made by AIB employees and management.
We're bailing that bank, that banks management and that banks employees out.

hinault

donkey balls wrote: »

most companies have certain privilages for their employees Aerlingus staff get free airline tickets or reduced costs on travel,my old company paid for VHI had free travel around the world on company aircraft till 9/11 happened:mad: plus the normal pension fund.
Dublin bus/CIE staff get free/discounted travel

Did the State transfer billions of euro to your company?

Welease

Citizen_Cutback wrote: »

It would be nice if you could give some references to your statement above.

My understanding is that there are 440,000 Public Servants currently serving with a current annual employer supplement of €0.8 billion being paid towards current Public Service pension payments; this figure includes Firemen, Gardai, Nurses, Prison Officers, Army personnel, Teachers/ Academics etc... as well as the Judiciary, Politicians and Medical Consultants.

How many people work in AIB?

Has any AIB employee ever died protecting Irish citizens?

Please compare Like with Like! Thanks.

The 105 billion?

Auditor General Report - http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/vfmreports/68_Central_Gov_Pensions.pdf
"The value of the State’s accrued liability in respect of public service pensions for serving staff, pensioners and preserved pensioners, at 31 December 2008 has been estimated at €108.4 billion. After taking account of assets of €1.9 billion held by a small number of pension schemes and €5.4 billion of assets held by the National Pension Reserve Fund (NPRF) the net liability amounted to €101.2 billion. In order to provide an overall estimate of the State’s total accrued pensions liability the figure of €108.4 billion includes an estimate of €7.5 billion in respect of serving staff and pensioners in local authorities."

Comments -
FinFacts - http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018283.shtml

The died arguement is soo tired now.. If you want to discuss the pensions then discuss it.. if you want to argue how many middle managers in the HSE have given their lives for dear old Ireland.. then provide some data, and I'll be glad to compare like for like office workers..

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right.

AIB is in receipt of billions from the taxpayer to clear up commerical mistakes made by AIB employees and management.
We're bailing that bank, that banks management and that banks employees out.

And do you believe that those in charge in the PS/Government (if we eventually take ownership) will be able to account for every Euro?