AIB employee perks

Cookie_Monster

Its still breach of contract. the unions in AIB will never allow those kind of things to be cut without major hassle and strikes


edit: lets not forget that the gov are getting millions of cheap AIB shares in return for the investment and will do extremely well out of the ownership in the long term...

Welease

talla10 wrote: »

According to Fine Gael which was later confirmed by AIB, AIB bank spends €2,500 annually on each employee for their social and gym memberships when last week they described as crucial the decision to raise interest rates by 0.5%. This is an absolute disgrace why are we bailing out banks when they cant't even cut back on these kinds of perks when the rest of us cant put food on the table or pay or bills because of cutbacks and job losses??:mad::mad:

and...

talla10 wrote: »

everybody accepts this and most are willing to take some pain to put the country right but the public sector has been squeezed already there is no more money to be gained in more cuts 1.3 Billion Euro was cut in last budget alone from public sector. Most are hard working decent people trying to make ends meet and this wedge between private and public sectors only serves the government to screw us all over united we stand divided we fall and there is one hell of a divide there now!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64360573&postcount=139

/confused....

mikemac

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Its still breach of contract. the unions in AIB will never allow those kind of things to be cut without major hassle and strikes

IBOA are toothless
They have never recovered from 1992.

They have a high membership but little power

amacca

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

lets not forget that the gov are getting millions of cheap AIB shares in return for the investment and will do extremely well out of the ownership in the long term...

Do you really believe the above? genuine curiosity, with AIB looking like selling some of their more valuable assets, downsizing and being constrained to operating in this country on life support for the foreseeable future I cant see their share value rising substantially for a good long while...at least not until long after govt has offloaded them

but obviously I cant predict the future and in addition I don't know much about the situation.... just wondering if govt are getting the shares discounted or free in return for bailout and what you think they will actually stand to make out of the transaction if you subtract how much they are putting in?

in response to the OP I too like a number of other posters think this is a bit of non-issue...mostly small amounts/BIK/ business for health clubs, gyms/ massive job losses coming at these banks in the very near future ---- seems a waste of time being outraged by this when there are so many other more substantial issues I think people should be getting outraged about.

Laminations

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

then all the employees would be taking them to court for breach of contract and/or look for compensation.

Because this happened with the PS pension levy/pay cut (which was necessary)? was that not a breach of contract?

secondly the vast majority of those employees did nothing wrong, why should they be punished?

Neither did anyone in the lower levels of the PS but the fact is their employer is broke and cuts need to be made.

They will be looking for upwards of 3,000 redundancies soon enough anyway so plenty of savings there...

Cuts are necessary as well as redundancies ala the PS. Just like the PS unnecessary spending needs to be cut, perks need to be cut and it has to start from the top down.

On top of these cuts to perks we need a banking sector pay and pension levy mirroring the PS levy. Did AIB staff get a raise only last year? I think it was tellers but they are still working for a broke employer being bailed out by a broke state.

Little Miss Fun

feelingstressed wrote: »

Read the posts.
It's not just for gyms.
An employee has to pay 5,000 per year to reach this limit. There only a handful of golf courses in the country that charge over this.
Plus you pay BIK on it.

Only a small fraction of staff would hit this 2,500 limit. Do you know anyone who spends 5,000 a year on gyms and golf memberships?

Now don't have a heart attack over this waster81 :eek:
AIB pays heath insurance and for professional exams for their staff also.
For some reason they want to help their staff upskill, what outrage

Better cut these perks too I suppose

Yes they should- I pay my own health insurance. If I want to join a gym I wouldnt expect the tax payers of Ireland to subsidise it for me.

Welease

Laminations wrote: »

On top of these cuts to perks we need a banking sector pay and pension levy mirroring the PS levy. Did AIB staff get a raise only last year? I think it was tellers but they are still working for a broke employer being bailed out by a broke state.

This was on the cards, not sure if it was implemented
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-staff-asked-for-4pc-of-salary-in-bid-to-tackle-pension-deficit-2004628.html

Put in perspective.. AIB's pension scheme defecit if 1.26 billion.. the PS pension scheme defecit is over 105 billion (not it's not missing a decimal point )

Laminations

Welease wrote: »

This was on the cards, not sure if it was implemented
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-staff-asked-for-4pc-of-salary-in-bid-to-tackle-pension-deficit-2004628.html

Put in perspective.. AIB's pension scheme defecit if 1.26 billion.. the PS pension scheme defecit is over 105 billion (not it's not missing a decimal point )

They are not exactly of comparable sizes. Bottom line is the bank is broke and squeezing it's customers while they are continuing to waste money on employee perks - the PS ATF also continuing to do this most notably at government level with ministerial cars, jet trips to give speeches and unvouched expenses. It's not a huge issue for me, all things in context, but it is annoying just like the 2 fingers we get from our government

Welease

Laminations wrote: »

They are not exactly of comparable sizes. Bottom line is the bank is broke and squeezing it's customers while they are continuing to waste money on employee perks - the PS ATF also continuing to do this most notably at government level with ministerial cars, jet trips to give speeches and unvouched expenses. It's not a huge issue for me, all things in context, but it is annoying just like the 2 fingers we get from our government

No disagreement from me there they need to cut these out.. was just posting that it looked like some type of levy was being introduced this year as per your suggestion (no idea if it finally was)

hinault

talla10 wrote: »

yes but not every major company requires billions of state owned assests to operate in business. The amount of people who lost their jobs or have have levies imposed and wages reduced for these banks who then increase interest rates that are 'essestial' for them to make profits...at the same time providing these extravagant benefits to employee's!!!surely when the banks were in danger of collapse they should have cut these benefits and other costs and taken other courses of actions to stay in business before asking for a bailout!!the majority of people are enduring very harsh times whilst bank employee's still have gym and social events paid by them by the banks that we as taxpayers injected billions into!!isnt anyone else infuriated??

Exactly.
The taxpayer owns AIB now and every euro needs to be fully accounted for within AIB.

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Exactly.
The taxpayer owns AIB now and every euro needs to be fully accounted for within AIB.

We havent managed to do that with the myriad of services we already provide.. why would we succeed with our latest aquisition?

hinault

Welease wrote: »

We havent managed to do that with the myriad of services we already provide.. why would we succeed with our latest aquisition?

Doesn't mean that every euro should not be accounted.

AIB and it's employees need to realise that the State/taxpayer own AIB now.

Thoie

Oddly enough, I'm not too worried about AIB staff getting some gym membership paid. If there was a gym on the premises, as some companies have, would we be suggesting that be closed down? What about the cycle to work scheme, which is also paid from our taxes - should bank staff not get that either?

Citizen_Cutback

Welease wrote: »

This was on the cards, not sure if it was implemented
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/aib-staff-asked-for-4pc-of-salary-in-bid-to-tackle-pension-deficit-2004628.html

Put in perspective.. AIB's pension scheme defecit if 1.26 billion.. the PS pension scheme defecit is over 105 billion (not it's not missing a decimal point )

It would be nice if you could give some references to your statement above.

My understanding is that there are 440,000 Public Servants currently serving with a current annual employer supplement of €0.8 billion being paid towards current Public Service pension payments; this figure includes Firemen, Gardai, Nurses, Prison Officers, Army personnel, Teachers/ Academics etc... as well as the Judiciary, Politicians and Medical Consultants.

How many people work in AIB?

Has any AIB employee ever died protecting Irish citizens?

Please compare Like with Like! Thanks.

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Doesn't mean that every euro should not be accounted.

AIB and it's employees need to realise that the State/taxpayer own AIB now.

Again no disagreement.. but we won't see that.. (and I don't think we actually own AIB yet, they are still trying to raise capital to avoid that)

Look at who will be doing the accounting.. then look at their other organisations.. FAS.. HSE... We don't have a fantastic record of accounting for every Euro..

donkey balls

most companies have certain privilages for their employees Aerlingus staff get free airline tickets or reduced costs on travel,my old company paid for VHI had free travel around the world on company aircraft till 9/11 happened:mad: plus the normal pension fund.
Dublin bus/CIE staff get free/discounted travel

hinault

Welease wrote: »

Again no disagreement.. but we won't see that.. (and I don't think we actually own AIB yet, they are still trying to raise capital to avoid that)

Look at who will be doing the accounting.. then look at their other organisations.. FAS.. HSE... We don't have a fantastic record of accounting for every Euro..

Two wrongs don't make a right.

AIB is in receipt of billions from the taxpayer to clear up commerical mistakes made by AIB employees and management.
We're bailing that bank, that banks management and that banks employees out.

hinault

donkey balls wrote: »

most companies have certain privilages for their employees Aerlingus staff get free airline tickets or reduced costs on travel,my old company paid for VHI had free travel around the world on company aircraft till 9/11 happened:mad: plus the normal pension fund.
Dublin bus/CIE staff get free/discounted travel

Did the State transfer billions of euro to your company?

Welease

Citizen_Cutback wrote: »

It would be nice if you could give some references to your statement above.

My understanding is that there are 440,000 Public Servants currently serving with a current annual employer supplement of €0.8 billion being paid towards current Public Service pension payments; this figure includes Firemen, Gardai, Nurses, Prison Officers, Army personnel, Teachers/ Academics etc... as well as the Judiciary, Politicians and Medical Consultants.

How many people work in AIB?

Has any AIB employee ever died protecting Irish citizens?

Please compare Like with Like! Thanks.

The 105 billion?

Auditor General Report - http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/vfmreports/68_Central_Gov_Pensions.pdf
"The value of the State’s accrued liability in respect of public service pensions for serving staff, pensioners and preserved pensioners, at 31 December 2008 has been estimated at €108.4 billion. After taking account of assets of €1.9 billion held by a small number of pension schemes and €5.4 billion of assets held by the National Pension Reserve Fund (NPRF) the net liability amounted to €101.2 billion. In order to provide an overall estimate of the State’s total accrued pensions liability the figure of €108.4 billion includes an estimate of €7.5 billion in respect of serving staff and pensioners in local authorities."

Comments -
FinFacts - http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018283.shtml

The died arguement is soo tired now.. If you want to discuss the pensions then discuss it.. if you want to argue how many middle managers in the HSE have given their lives for dear old Ireland.. then provide some data, and I'll be glad to compare like for like office workers..

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right.

AIB is in receipt of billions from the taxpayer to clear up commerical mistakes made by AIB employees and management.
We're bailing that bank, that banks management and that banks employees out.

And do you believe that those in charge in the PS/Government (if we eventually take ownership) will be able to account for every Euro?

donkey balls

hinault wrote: »

Did the State transfer billions of euro to your company?

nope:D but has anyone got a total cost of the scheme lets face it the majority of banking staff(frontline) are paid less than 30k a year.
how much are they going spend on gym membership there are plenty of gyms around that you can get a years membership for 200/300e.

hinault

Welease wrote: »

And do you believe that those in charge in the PS/Government (if we eventually take ownership) will be able to account for every Euro?

Sorry pal - I thought we were discussing in AIB?
No/Yes?

AIB made commerically incorrect mistakes.
AIB employees and AIB managers made mistakes to the tune of billions.
If the taxpayer had not transferred billions in to AIB, AIB would have been put in to receivership/liquidation.
They are the facts.

The taxpayer has saved AIB.
It behoves AIB to account for every Euro of expenditure under such circumstances.

Incidentally, I also hold the view that the PS should also be accountable for every Euro it receives.

But in this instance we're discussing AIB.


As I said earlier two wrongs do not make a right.

hinault

donkey balls wrote: »

nope:D but has anyone got a total cost of the scheme lets face it the majority of banking staff(frontline) are paid less than 30k a year.
how much are they going spend on gym membership there are plenty of gyms around that you can get a years membership for 200/300e.

I am sure that at an individual level the sums involved are not large.
However, given the prevailing circumstances and hiven the fact that AIB is in the process of being effectively nationalised (both by the transfer of loans to NAMA and the recapitalisation by the taxpayer), I think that these perks ought to be scrapped.
Immediately.

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Sorry pal - I thought we were discussing in AIB?
No/Yes?

AIB made commerically incorrect mistakes.
AIB employees and AIB managers made mistakes to the tune of billions.
If the taxpayer had not transferred billions in to AIB, AIB would have been put in to receivership/liquidation.
They are the facts.

The taxpayer has saved AIB.
It behoves AIB to account for every Euro of expenditure under such circumstances.

Incidentally, I also hold the view that the PS should also be accountable for every Euro it receives.

But in this instance we're discussing AIB.


As I said earlier two wrongs do not make a right.

Either I am not making myself clear (good possibility ) or your are misunderstanding me..

Let me try again..

Everyone agrees they should be counting every last euro... No arguement..

As a private company, those in charge managed to destroy their profitability and ruin the company by unbelievable reckless behaviour.
Those who may end up controlling the state owned company (if that happens) have displayed equal reckless fical behaviour and will continue to employ the same hierarchy from the AIB private sector days
(The state decided the continue to allow unsustainable pensions and benefits to its own employees, I don't see a change of heart to its new potential employees)

Everyone agrees there should be considerable fiscal restraint shown.. neither party seems to be capable of such actions..

My confidence is low..

hinault

Welease wrote: »

Either I am not making myself clear (good possibility ) or your are misunderstanding me..

Let me try again..

Everyone agrees they should be counting every last euro... No arguement..

As a private company, those in charge managed to destroy their profitability and ruin the company by unbelievable reckless behaviour.
Those who may end up controlling the state owned company (if that happens) have displayed equal reckless fical behaviour and will continue to employ the same hierarchy from the AIB private sector days
(The state decided the continue to allow unsustainable pensions and benefits to its own employees, I don't see a change of heart to its new potential employees)

Everyone agrees there should be considerable fiscal restraint shown.. neither party seems to be capable of such actions..

My confidence is low..

You cited PS/govt not accounting for every Euro, to try to vindicate the fact that perks are paid to AIB employees!


My view is that every perk - be it PS or AIB - ought to be terminated immediately.

I don't discriminate between PS and AIB.
They're both owned by the taxpayer.
I make no discrimination between either grouping.

Welease

hinault wrote: »

You cited PS/govt not accounting for every Euro, to try to vindicate the fact that perks are paid to AIB employees!


My view is that every perk - be it PS or AIB - ought to be terminated immediately.

I don't discriminate between PS and AIB.
They're both owned by the taxpayer.
I make no discrimination between either grouping.

Umm no I didn't ...

I was pointing out that those who would ultimately decide have not shown any previous disposition to removing "perks" (as per the CP agreement)

hinault

Welease wrote: »

Umm no I didn't ...

I was pointing out that those who would ultimately decide have not shown any previous disposition to removing "perks" (as per the CP agreement)

You did in fact.


As I said earlier, all perks should be removed from both sections of the PS.
(both sections being PS and the newly nationalised companies like AIB and Anglo).

I make no discrimination.

Welease

hinault wrote: »

You did in fact.


As I said earlier, all perks should be removed from both sections of the PS.
(both sections being PS and the newly nationalised companies like AIB and Anglo).

I make no discrimination.

Then you should be able to quote me..

Where did I say the AIB perks were acceptable?

hinault

Welease wrote: »

Then you should be able to quote me..

Where did I say the AIB perks were acceptable?

Do you think the AIB perks should be cut?

Welease

hinault wrote: »

Do you think the AIB perks should be cut?

This board cracks me up.. is that shorthand for you finally decided to actually read what I posted and suddenly realised that I didnt in fact vindicate the benefits as you claimed?

Let me make it very clear then..

NO I DON'T AGREE WITH THE BENEFITS.. BUT I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE THAT THOSE WHO MAY END UP ENFORCING NEW MEASURES HAVE ANY GREAT COMPULSION TO IMPLEMENT MORE STRINGENT FISCAL MEASURES GIVEN THEIR PAST RECORD..

(and hopefully in the time it's taken to read this, you may consider doing the decent thing and actually apologising for your statements and admitting the deflection is because you didn't/could'nt find what you actually accused me of!)