'Sudan sentences 19 men for wearing women's clothes'

Tabnabs

KHARTOUM — A Sudanese court on Wednesday sentenced 19 young Muslim men to 30 lashes and a fine for breaking moral codes by wearing women's clothes and makeup, a case exposing Sudanese sensitivity toward homosexuality.

Many of the defendants tried to hide their faces from the around 200 people who watched as they were lashed straight after their sentencing. The men had no lawyers present and said nothing in their own defense.

The trial judge said police had raided a party thrown by the 19 men and found them dancing "in a womanly fashion," wearing women's clothes and makeup. He said there was a video of the party and that one woman who was present had fled the scene.

The defendants were charged with violating Sudan's public morality codes.

Local newspapers reported that the party was held to celebrate a same-sex wedding, propelling it into a talking point all over Khartoum's conservative Muslim society. The court on Wednesday made no mention of a marriage ceremony.

One lawyer present, who declined to be named, said legal advocates would have been afraid to take on such a defense.

"These people did not get a chance for justice," he said. "Public opinion and the media prejudged them and lawyers were too scared to come and defend them."

Islamic sharia law has been weaved into Sudan's legal code and was a sticking point in a 2005 peace deal which ended more than two decades of civil war between Khartoum's Islamists and the mostly Christian and animist southern rebels.

The south was exempted from sharia but it still applies in Khartoum, where many non-Muslims live. Khartoum's women's jail is filled with southern non-Muslims convicted of manufacturing or selling alcohol.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38553887

Can't dress as a woman, but dressing up and playing pirates is ok?!

CreepingDeath

Dyflin wrote: »

200 people who watched as they were lashed straight after their sentencing.

Wow, they cured them as well !

speedboatchase

Were they wearing darfur coats?

KevinVonSpiel

It's just the whole Sudan/Yemen/Izzard/Transvestite thing.

kfallon

Dyflin wrote: »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38553887

Can't dress as a woman, but dressing up and playing pirates is ok?!

Wouldn't you rather find your young son playing pirates than dressing up as Lily Savage.....

Tabnabs

kfallon wrote: »

Wouldn't you rather find your young son playing pirates than dressing up as Lily Savage.....

Arra, probably not...

pirate

Sea Sharp

Halloween is no fun in Sudan.

The_Kew_Tour

Maybe they had man boobs and wanted to keep them up.

starbelgrade

They always wanted to be lumberjacks.

wes

Well, no surprise with this kind of crap from Sudan, what with there President being wanted by the ICC.

KevinVonSpiel

wes wrote: »

Well, no surprise with this kind of crap from Sudan, what with there President being wanted by the ICC.

The International Cricket Council?

ejmaztec

KevinVonSpiel wrote: »

The International Cricket Council?

Yes, he's a wicket bastard.

wes

KevinVonSpiel wrote: »

The International Cricket Council?

Yes, there was cheating in a game with Burkino Faso, when the Sudanese team attacked the other team wtih actual crickets!!!!

KevinVonSpiel

wes wrote: »

Yes, there was cheating in a game with Burkino Faso, when the Sudanese team attacked the other team wtih actual crickets!!!!

How very Biblical.

Stinicker

Just as well they weren't caught taking off womens clothes or they'd probably have gotten to do the whipping to the women instead.

Islam = A septic slurry tank of utter tripe.

starbelgrade

Stinicker wrote: »

Islam = A septic slurry tank of utter tripe.

And that is unlike every other religion, because?

biko

Unless white dresses are ok the Saudis are in big trouble.

Stinicker

starbelgrade wrote: »

And that is unlike every other religion, because?

Every Religion has its fallacies, however I don't recall anything in mainstream Catholicism that degrades women quite like islam does to its women. Neither is there texts telling followers to kill followers of other religions and await martydom for it. Islam is the greatest threat we face in the world today to our peaceful, democratic way of life and liberal values.

Links234

Stinicker wrote: »

Every Religion has its fallacies, however I don't recall anything in mainstream Catholicism that degrades women quite like islam does to its women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum

catholics have been pretty brutal towards women in the past, don't fool yourself

wes

Stinicker wrote: »

Every Religion has its fallacies, however I don't recall anything in mainstream Catholicism that degrades women quite like islam does to its women. Neither is there texts telling followers to kill followers of other religions and await martydom for it. Islam is the greatest threat we face in the world today to our peaceful, democratic way of life and liberal values.

Ahem, from the Bible.....

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Sorry, your talking some nonsense. Islam is not a uniquely violent Religion, and is in fact very similar to all the other major Abrhamic faiths, which all feature violence to varying degree's. Basically, your above statement is simply factually incorrect.

stovelid

I always wondered what kind of sick fucks actually watch public whippings and whatnot. Surely they weren't just members of the public?

Stinicker

wes wrote: »

Ahem, from the Bible.....

Look you can kid yourself all you want, the bible has about the same amount of influence on life in the west as an issue of beano. People in normal countries don't teach their children it is okay to kill people because they are not of the same faith, nor do Christians go around hijacking planes and flying them into buildings either.

You can defend islam all you want but most people will disagree with you, we have moved on from bleeding heart times. Islam is unwelcome in Ireland and in other civilised countries.

The Koran now available in two ply.

wes

Stinicker wrote: »

Look you can kid yourself all you want, the bible has about the same amount of influence on life in the west as an issue of beano. People in normal countries don't teach their children it is okay to kill people because they are not of the same faith, nor do Christians go around hijacking planes and flying them into buildings either.

Look, you can try and dodge the false claim you made, but the fact is that you were proven wrong. You made a claim, that was factually incorrect, end of.

Also, I think you will find plenty of other Relgions engage in violence, take the LRA in Uganda for example, modern witch hunts in Africa and Britain, violence from Hindu Ultra Nationalists, West Bank settlers, and a bunch of other crap that happen in the world, that you have chosen to ignore for your own purposes.

Stinicker wrote: »

You can defend islam all you want but most people will disagree with you, we have moved on from bleeding heart times. Islam is unwelcome in Ireland and in other civilised countries.

I wasn't defending anything actually. You made a factually incorrect claim, and all I did was show that you were wrong. You see if you are going to make claims you need facts to back them up. Its seem very clear to me, you don't have the facts on your sides, and hence why you completely ignore the point of my post.

Secondly, freedom of Relgion is guranteed in civilised countries. People who are against such freedoms have more in common with the Sudanese government, as opposed to civilised countries.

DrumSteve

Goin out on the lash in Sudan is ****e.

Stinicker

wes wrote: »

Look, you can try and dodge the false claim you made, but the fact is that you were proven wrong. You made a claim, that was factually incorrect, end of.

Also, I think you will find plenty of other Relgions engage in violence, take the LRA in Uganda for example, modern witch hunts in Africa and Britain, violence from Hindu Ultra Nationalists, West Bank settlers, and a bunch of other crap that happen in the world, that you have chosen to ignore for your own purposes.



I wasn't defending anything actually. You made a factually incorrect claim, and all I did was show that you were wrong. You see if you are going to make claims you need facts to back them up. Its seem very clear to me, you don't have the facts on your sides, and hence why you completely ignore the point of my post.

Secondly, freedom of Relgion is guranteed in civilised countries. People who are against such freedoms have more in common with the Sudanese government, as opposed to civilised countries.

You can defend islam all you want but I don't care, as far as I am concerned they are murdering evil human rights abusers and this so called religion has no place anywhere. There founder Muhammed was a pedophile who raped children yet you still defend this religion.

You can worship a pedophile all you want but this sort of sh1t is not welcome in any normal country. 800 years ago the men of Europe marched to the east and killed millions of Moslems to this day allied troops kill the moslem, we need to wake and see the blight that Islam and its radicalised followers are to this peaceful world we live.

wes

Stinicker wrote: »

You can defend islam all you want but I don't care, as far as I am concerned they are murdering evil human rights abusers and this so called religion has no place anywhere. There founder Muhammed was a pedophile who raped children yet you still defend this religion.

You clearly didn't read my post, and are still posting your utter nonsense and tripe. Once again, you made a factually incorrect claim, and I showed you to be wrong. Repeating the same tripe over and over again, will not make what you said correct. I did not defend anything, you made a claim, that I showed to be factually incorrect, please do keep up with what is being actually said, and not whatever you wish was being said.

Stinicker wrote: »

You can worship a pedophile all you want but this sort of sh1t is not welcome in any normal country. 800 years ago the men of Europe marched to the east and killed millions of Moslems to this day allied troops kill the moslem, we need to wake and see the blight that Islam and its radicalised followers are to this peaceful world we live.

You have done a good job of proving my point of extremism not just existing with in Muslim communities. Thanks you for making this so damn easy . The amount of hypocrisy in the above statement is just astonshing, if we could find a way to harness hypocrisy for the the purpose of energy that statement alone could run the entire glode for a decade .

Stinicker

wes wrote: »

You clearly didn't read my post, and are still posting your utter nonsense and tripe. Once again, you made a factually incorrect claim, and I showed you to be wrong. Repeating the same tripe over and over again, will not make what you said correct. I did not defend anything, you made a claim, that I showed to be factually incorrect, please do keep up with what is being actually said, and not whatever you wish was being said.



You have done a good job of proving my point of extremism not just existing with in Muslim communities. Thanks you for making this so damn easy . The amount of hypocrisy in the above statement is just astonshing, if we could find a way to harness hypocrisy for the the purpose of energy that statement alone could run the entire glode for a decade .

As I have learned long ago there is no point in arguing with an idiot as they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

wes

Stinicker wrote: »

As I have learned long ago there is no point in arguing with an idiot as they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Oh, now you are resorting to name calling . Wow, just wow. You complain of Muslim violence, then make a false claim, and when shown to be wrong, you do your damnest to dodge the issue, then you come out with the following gem:

Stinicker wrote: »

800 years ago the men of Europe marched to the east and killed millions of Moslems to this day allied troops kill the moslem, we need to wake and see the blight that Islam and its radicalised followers are to this peaceful world we live.

You completely destroy your own credibitily when it comes to complaining about anyone else violence with the above, as you very clearly only have problems when certain people engage in it.

deravarra

Stinicker wrote: »

Just as well they weren't caught taking off womens clothes or they'd probably have gotten to do the whipping to the women instead.

Islam = A septic slurry tank of utter tripe.

Really?

I'm a muslim ...

biko

biko wrote: »

Unless white dresses are ok the Saudis are in big trouble.

I thought they were supposed to have beards

kylith

Stinicker wrote: »

You can worship a pedophile all you want but this sort of sh1t is not welcome in any normal country. 800 years ago the men of Europe marched to the east and killed millions of Moslems to this day allied troops kill the moslem, we need to wake and see the blight that Islam and its radicalised followers are to this peaceful world we live.

Hang on... you're condoning the slaughter of millions in order to make the world a more tolerant place? Contradiction much?

kylith

stovelid wrote: »

I always wondered what kind of sick fucks actually watch public whippings and whatnot. Surely they weren't just members of the public?

They probably were. It wasn't too long ago that people in Ireland and England turned out in droves for a good hanging. It was a great day out for the kiddies.

Cuddlesworth

kylith wrote: »

They probably were. It wasn't too long ago that people in Ireland and England turned out in droves for a good hanging. It was a great day out for the kiddies.

Takes me back. Ahhhh the acidic smell of the fear, the bristling rope swaying back and forth, all leading to the crescendo of the crack. Good times, good times.

mojesius

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Takes me back. Ahhhh the acidic smell of the fear, the bristling rope swaying back and forth, all leading to the crescendo of the crack. Good times, good times.

Let's not forget pre-six nations - the weekend trips to Paris to watch a good guillotine. Heads all over the place. I miss those.

SuperInfinity

This has nothing to do with "radical Islam", it's public morality laws.

Do you think a couple of youths here would be allowed noisily walk around Grafton Street wearing thongs and women's make-up? Of course not. That's all this is. Public morality laws.

You can do as you like in your own home, but not in a public place. Because you have to be conscious of the rights and feelings of others as well.

It's just the usual bull**** from the western media, trying to make it into something it's really not. As if they were so much better.

SuperInfinity

SuperInfinity wrote: »

This has nothing to do with "radical Islam", it's public morality laws.

Do you think a couple of youths here would be allowed noisily walk around Grafton Street wearing thongs and women's make-up? Of course not. That's all this is. Public morality laws.

You can do as you like in your own home, but not in a public place. Because you have to be conscious of the rights and feelings of others as well.

It's just the usual bull**** from the western media, trying to make it into something it's really not. As if they were so much better.

Raiding a private party is a bit different to walking down grafton street

SuperInfinity

bluewolf wrote: »

Raiding a private party is a bit different to walking down grafton street

But it says "public morality laws", therefore I would think the party was out on the street or something. If it really is a private party I take back my post and agree it's unjustifiable.

SuperInfinity

SuperInfinity wrote: »

But it says "public morality laws", therefore I would think the party was out on the street or something. If it really is a private party I take back my post and agree it's unjustifiable.

I think they have a history of going to private ones

In the Khartoum area in 2008, 43,000 arrests of women were made in relation to infringements of the Public Order Act, a set of laws and mechanisms which deal with matters ranging from those of public security to the enforcement of a range of behaviour from dancing at private parties, to "indecent dress", to intention to commit adultery. (Sudan Tribune, 23/11/09.)

http://www.islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3091:what-sudanese-women-wear&catid=194&Itemid=68

"I don't think she was targeted specifically," Adib said. "They attack public and private parties and groups. They are called 'morality police' and she was just a victim of a round-up."...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/sudan-woman-arrested-for-wearing-pants-spared-lashes-told-to-pay-fine.html

28064212

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Do you think a couple of youths here would be allowed noisily walk around Grafton Street wearing thongs and women's make-up? Of course not. That's all this is. Public morality laws.

:pac: What would they be charged with in Ireland exactly? I take it you've never been to the Gay Pride Parade? Or hell, even the Women's Mini-Marathon?

Tom Dunne

Dyflin wrote: »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38553887

KHARTOUM — A Sudanese court on Wednesday sentenced 19 young Muslim men to 30 lashes and a fine for breaking moral codes by wearing women's clothes and makeup, a case exposing Sudanese sensitivity toward homosexuality.

Anybody notice the glaring problem here? What has wearing women's clothes got to do with homosexuality?

Stinicker wrote: »

Just as well they weren't caught taking off womens clothes or they'd probably have gotten to do the whipping to the women instead.

Islam = A septic slurry tank of utter tripe.

So, just how much do you know about Islam? How many Muslims have you ever actually spoken to? Or do you scurry off into the corner when you see one, afraid they might issue a fatwah on you? Those big scary men with their beards....

Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Have you ever visited a mosque? Do you know much about the political state Sudan is in at the moment?

Something tells me you would rather get your world education from Sky News and the Daily Star, safe in the knowledge that you believe what you want to believe. Or more importantly, you believe what others tell you.

The sheer ignorance in your posts is utterly gobsmacking.

SuperInfinity

28064212 wrote: »

:pac: What would they be charged with in Ireland exactly? I take it you've never been to the Gay Pride Parade? Or hell, even the Women's Mini-Marathon?

You need a licence to have a parade, at least for certain types of parades that may cause distruption. So while it might be a valid point in general, the fact that it was sanctioned doesn't make it a great example.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/13422-city-council-grants-licence-macnas-parade

Frankly, I don't really think giving ourselves so many claps on the back about how allegedly tolerant we are in our society does any good for anyone.

In fact many times people face "reverse discrimination", for the fact that someone who's a black person or an LGBT person or has some kind of "discrimination" slant about them like that will be given favour so as to prevent any sort of controversy or complaints made by them.

Rented Mule

They should have dressed up as Keira Knightley dressed as a pirate.

Dudess

stovelid wrote: »

I always wondered what kind of sick fucks actually watch public whippings and whatnot.

People like those on AH who indulge in revenge torture fantasies possibly.

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Do you think a couple of youths here would be allowed noisily walk around Grafton Street wearing thongs and women's make-up? Of course not. That's all this is. Public morality laws.

It's just the usual bull**** from the western media, trying to make it into something it's really not. As if they were so much better.

Always one on these threads. There's no need for the whippings is all.

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Frankly, I don't really think giving ourselves so many claps on the back about how allegedly tolerant we are in our society does any good for anyone.

We don't have public floggings. Objections to these are not self back-slapping/forcing western values on other cultures/requiring of justification... it's just an abhorrence of violence. Simples.

SuperInfinity

Dudess wrote: »

People like those on AH who indulge in revenge torture fantasies possibly.

Always one on these threads. There's no need for the whippings is all.

We don't have public floggings. Objections to these are not self back-slapping/forcing western values on other cultures/requiring of justification... it's just an abhorrence of violence. Simples.

And why should we get to dictate what is and isn't acceptable recourse? People automatically think it's "barbaric" because that's what the western media says. There's nothing barbaric about it... not anymore than putting a person in prison. Who's codding who?

I know I would rather get a few lashes than spend the night in a jail. Our parents/grandparents were probably given corperal punishment in schools. It's not that outlandish or fundamentally wrong a punishment if done in a fair way (unlike corperal punishment in schools which is why they got rid of it).

camroc

SuperInfinity wrote: »

And why should we get to dictate what is and isn't acceptable recourse? People automatically think it's "barbaric" because that's what the western media says. There's nothing barbaric about it... not anymore than putting a person in prison. Who's codding who?

I know I would rather get a few lashes than spend the night in a jail. Our parents/grandparents were probably given corperal punishment in schools. It's not that outlandish or fundamentally wrong a punishment if done in a fair way (unlike corperal punishment in schools which is why they got rid of it).

Have you you lost sight of the fact that these men did nothing wrong? They don't deserve any punishment.

The Sudanese government is one of the most sickening dictatorships in the world. I have no idea why anybody would try to defend it.

Dudess

People defend the likes of such a government to go against the grain, or if they're on the left, because they feel compelled not to dare subscribing to anything that might be approved of by the right.

SuperInfinity wrote: »

And why should we get to dictate what is and isn't acceptable recourse?

Because it's inflicting violence?

People automatically think it's "barbaric" because that's what the western media says.

No, because it's violent. That's a fairly arrogant assumption above.

There's nothing barbaric about it

There is something barbaric about violence

... not anymore than putting a person in prison. Who's codding who?

Indeed.

I know I would rather get a few lashes than spend the night in a jail.

Sure you'd prefer to have violence inflicted on you. Anything for the sake of the usual "You're being arrogant westerners" argument...

Our parents/grandparents were probably given corperal punishment in schools.

Yeah, and it was wrong - so wrong that it doesn't exist any more.

If you're into S&M, cool, but at least you have the choice.

dsmythy

deravarra wrote: »

Really?

I'm a muslim ...

Welcome to boards. You'll find yourself in good company with Christians who are mocked on a daily basis.

Stinicker

kylith wrote: »

Hang on... you're condoning the slaughter of millions in order to make the world a more tolerant place? Contradiction much?

If the radicals must die to defend the world for the moderates then so be it, should the rest of the world have stood by and allowed Nazi Germany who were extremists to conquer Europe and spread their hate? Or should the allies have continued the previous policy of containment and idleness as they did when the waffen SS marched into the Sudetenland?

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Anybody notice the glaring problem here? What has wearing women's clothes got to do with homosexuality?



So, just how much do you know about Islam? How many Muslims have you ever actually spoken to? Or do you scurry off into the corner when you see one, afraid they might issue a fatwah on you? Those big scary men with their beards....

Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Have you ever visited a mosque? Do you know much about the political state Sudan is in at the moment?

Something tells me you would rather get your world education from Sky News and the Daily Star, safe in the knowledge that you believe what you want to believe. Or more importantly, you believe what others tell you.

The sheer ignorance in your posts is utterly gobsmacking.

I know quite alot about Islam and have in my position a Quran which I have actually read I will let you know. I have also been inside a Mosque and now Let me quote you some of the vile evil it delivers in its words.

"...now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it...they reply: 'We believe in what was revealed to us.' But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth...Say: 'Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel' (who has by God's grace revealed to you [Muhammad] the Koran as a guide...confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.'...And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs...The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. " (Surah 2:88-, 98-, 103-)
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
"Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)
"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)
"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)
"To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)
"If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20)
"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)
"Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43)
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)
"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
"The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind 'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?" (Surah 5:114-)
"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
"It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
"Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)
"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)
"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)
"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)
"You shall not force your slave-girls into prostitution in order that you make money, if they wish to preserve their chastity." (Surah 24:33-)
"As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
"Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

Many Muslims are moderate and this is fine, however what is not acceptable is extremist Islam and Sharia Law, Islamic Countries do not extend religious courtesy to Christians or Jews so why should we extend such courtesies to them? Islam is a religion based on hate and discrimination and has no place in any freedom loving country anywhere. If Islamic fundamentalists think that they can destroy chrisendom they will have a battle on their hands and Christians will always fight the good fight to allow the moderate the chance to succeed.

Allied forces fight daily to bring peace and tolerance to a region of hate and bigotry in the middle east. Try being a homosexual in a muslim country or being a woman trying to lead a free life and you would quickly change your tune. Waging war on Islam is perfectly acceptable as it is for the greater good and until the extremists are eradicated then gods work will never be done.

wes

Stinicker wrote: »

If the radicals must die to defend the world for the moderates then so be it, should the rest of the world have stood by and allowed Nazi Germany who were extremists to conquer Europe and spread their hate? Or should the allies have continued the previous policy of containment and idleness as they did when the waffen SS marched into the Sudetenland?



I know quite alot about Islam and have in my position a Quran which I have actually read I will let you know. I have also been inside a Mosque and now Let me quote you some of the vile evil it delivers in its words.




Many Muslims are moderate and this is fine, however what is not acceptable is extremist Islam and Sharia Law, Islamic Countries do not extend religious courtesy to Christians or Jews so why should we extend such courtesies to them? Islam is a religion based on hate and discrimination and has no place in any freedom loving country anywhere. If Islamic fundamentalists think that they can destroy chrisendom they will have a battle on their hands and Christians will always fight the good fight to allow the moderate the chance to succeed.

Allied forces fight daily to bring peace and tolerance to a region of hate and bigotry in the middle east. Try being a homosexual in a muslim country or being a woman trying to lead a free life and you would quickly change your tune. Waging war on Islam is perfectly acceptable as it is for the greater good and until the extremists are eradicated then gods work will never be done.

"Gods work will never be done" and invoking a non-existent "Christendom", all in the context of waging wars against Islam. Sounds like extremism to me .

KevinVonSpiel

Surely the title of this thread should be changed to "Wingnuts who run Sudan sentence 19 men for wearing women's clothes"... you know, like "Wingnuts who run Ireland run up monster 20+ billion euro tab making sure that the **** doesn't hit the fan"...

SuperInfinity

KevinVonSpiel wrote: »

Surely the title of this thread should be changed to "Wingnuts who run Sudan sentence 19 men for wearing women's clothes"... you know, like "Wingnuts who run Ireland run up monster 20+ billion euro tab making sure that the **** doesn't hit the fan"...

Definitely. Except it should be more like "barbarians and financial terrorists who run Ireland".

People say: "that's only money, more important is freedom and tolerance"...

But like it or not money DIRECTLY TRANSLATES to freedom and tolerance. Money blatantly interferes with court, they don't even try to deny it. It will get people out on bail, will settle fines, will do anything. Good luck with your appeal to Legal Aid if you're trying to take an action against a state-run body.

Shortage of money will lock people down to working and enslavement, that's a lack of freedom a million times worse than some lashes. It's not a just freedom, it's because the people who are supposed to be in charge of government and the banks and where your money's going take so much themselves. So spare me the tears for these people who committed public indecency and were punished for it. To them parking your car in a public spot and having to pay for the privilege of doing that may sound extremely draconian (I'm not sure if they have that).

So no I am not trying to be "cool" with supposed anti-western views and I'm not a lefty at all, I'm very conservative on certain issues like immigration. I am also for the ban on the burqa in France, because again... it is not a part of the public dress-code, you can't go around wearing a balaclava either.

I think it is you who are the leftist who loves to express your moral outrage at how anti-homosexual these people are and to laugh at how supposedly backwards and uncivilized jokes all these countries are, when they are actually quite sophisticated and just the vast majority of the time. I do hate how they throw around the "death penalty" threats, but executions are still only for really heinous crimes like murder as they are in the US.

Me laughing at people on the right? Ha!!! It's the people on the right who find homosexuality and transvestitism to be an unnatural phenomenon such as I do, something not present in nature, and so raise questions over its expression in public, that's pure rightism. It's YOU who are the allegedly "progressive" people laughing at all these supposed backward traditions, philosophies and belief systems.