Extremely drunk women.

metrovelvet

Herbal Deity wrote: »

tbh, a grown woman is responsible for her actions, drunk or not.

And one would have to be absolutely legless to not be able to consent.

Huge difference between preying on extremely drunk women and having a drunk woman come on to you or getting with someone while you're both drinking.

And the context of the first post and posts following it clearly indicate that it's the latter that's being discussed.

I didnt take Taco's post to suggest what many are accussing her of.

A lot of the comments are concerned with potential culpability and not sensitivity to exploiting someone when their judgement is skewed.

Obviously if you are both drinking then both people are out of it.

Saying that, apparantly there have been several cases of women showing up at a and e claiming they were rohipnoled and raped and no such drug showed up. They were drunk and did not recall their consent, or perhaps lack of, so I can see why guys would stay well away for that reason alone.

CDfm

taconnol wrote: »

This thread is the most depressing I've read in a long, long time.

how come ?

amacachi

taconnol wrote: »

This thread is the most depressing I've read in a long, long time.

I didn't accuse anyone of anything. My post was gender neutral and I clarified that in a later post. As was pointed out by another poster, my issue with the discussion was that of all the reasons discussed for not wanting to take a drunk person home, their inability to consent wasn't one of them. If both people are drunk then tough on both of them but when one is sober and another drunk, the burden of responsibility changes.

And as an aside, it is a disgrace that in 2010 anyone still thinks that a person being drunk makes them in any way responsible for a sexual assault. That goes for men and women.

What's your idea of drunk though? I doubt anyone here would **** a de facto mannequin and most assumed that went without saying.

Mrmoe

taconnol wrote: »

This thread is the most depressing I've read in a long, long time.

I didn't accuse anyone of anything. My post was gender neutral and I clarified that in a later post. As was pointed out by another poster, my issue with the discussion was that of all the reasons discussed for not wanting to take a drunk person home, their inability to consent wasn't one of them. If both people are drunk then tough on both of them but when one is sober and another drunk, the burden of responsibility changes.

And as an aside, it is a disgrace that in 2010 anyone still thinks that a person being drunk makes them in any way responsible for a sexual assault. That goes for men and women.

Do we have to state explicitly that we would not rape or sexually assault someone? I think most people here take this as the case. I do not think anyone here would condone having sex with a woman who could not give consent. By saying that nobody mentioned it you are suggesting that we give it a thumbs up and when it is followed up by the "wow, just wow" comment. That to me is an insult to my character and those of other posters.

Kooli

Well the fact that some people have responded by saying that 'a grown woman is responsible for her actions, drunk or not' says to me that it does not 'go without saying' that everyone is on the same page regarding the consent issue.

And that's not a criticism. I do think it's a tricky thing that's not as black and white as we would like to think. I've heard people say that no one should EVER have sex with someone who's really drunk or else it's rape. Well if that's the case I've been raped plenty of times...

Yet we all agree that if someone is completely legless and can't speak or is unconscious, then it's non-consensual.

So where do we draw the line? As someone said earlier in the thread, some people slur their words while still being totally able to think straight. Others appear fine while being totally off their faces.

But maybe this is for another thread?

NothingMan

What ever about the whole moral/trouble dilemma it sounds as if the girl Fone was talking to started hammering the drinks back after they first met. To me it seems like she was drinking so she had enough dutch courage to talk or be more forward with you. Which would be all well and good if she knew what she could handle and didn't end up wrecked.

I think it's funny that when a guy wakes up with a munter it's a case of "well it was gettin late and there was nobody else showin an interest, so fúck it, she was a good shag".

Yet when the roles are reversed it's a case of "oh my god, I was so drunk I don't remember anything. I think I was drugged! I never normally get like that". You're fooling no one. Just accept it for what it was, a drunken fumble with someone you've no intention of seeing again.

metrovelvet

Its because the emphasis was on culpability and not regard for the other.

Black Magician

Brendog wrote: »

I'd like to post what I think of drunk women through the guise of a BBC Documentarian


Drunk women, like the giant ant-eaters of southern polynesia, are one of the most unattractive forces on the planet,as many case studies will show.

They're behavioural nature rapidly changes on a constant basis. This acts alot like camoflauge.
The inebriated female draws the sexually frustrated male into her inclosure, saying such things as "Your really cute".

This lowers the males guard as he becomes intranced by the females supple breats and firm buttocks.
The females mood will then change revealing her true form."Nobody likes me", "I'm fat".

It is at this point there is no escape for the male. His fate, like many before him, has been sealed.


The female also has a repellent to ward off would-be attackers. She releases it in the form of "THIS SONG IS ABOUT ME!!" and "I JUST GOT MY PERIOD!!"

The natural habitat of the drunk female is a dense, rainforest like area, flowing with smoke and alcohol.

very funny post

Id never touch an extremely drunk women, being that badly drunk is, depending on the person in question and regardless of the sex, a state that is not the persons normal state of mind. Id rather get to know the 'real' person and hope she fancied me and not because of her beer goggles! Drunk women are very unappealing.

princess-lala

I was out at the weekend in a new town and Sunday evening we were in the pub. In walked two girls - no more than 19 and both of them staggering at half 8!

They sat at a table beside us and one went to the bar and arrived back with a jug of a cocktail and the two of them got straws and sat drinking out of the jug! Classy birds

I met them again in the club on the dance floor falling over each other and everyone else near them! They were still being served at the bar at this stage - nobody asked them to leave!

I did see them trying it on with lads - some of the lads walked away others didn't! Now I know if that was any of my friends acting like that I'd walk away from them or tell them to cop themselves on!

At 18 you just wanna go out and get locked but as you grow up you cop on, I go out for a few drinks, never get myself into such a state I even look drunk! Sometimes I wouldn't be sober coming home but I always know what I'm at!

I don't understand how girls or guys can go out and get in states like that and still actually pull! If a drunk fella came onto me I'd walk as fast as I can away

entropi

A simple answer there lala is that alot of lads will just take what they can get sadly...like you mentioned though, some lads walked...fair play to em!:)

If she was too drunk, definitely a no-no! Fairly drunk...I'd be wary still. Normally if a girl was sober or tipsy then I'd be glad to chat or whatever, when they get drunk they just wreck my head anyways.

Of course I need to speak about the composure of said woman, if she's been noticeably knocking back vodka & cokes like in the OP's story, then you would know she'll be off her face soon enough...I'm sure someone would go for her but when people get to that state, they really shouldnt be allowed to be served, or remain on premises and should be brought out, put into to a waiting taxi and be sent home. (I am also thinking here about the morality of a vast minority of drivers who could themselves use her being drunk as an excuse to fool around etc but will not proceed along those lines).

Giselle

I don't understand how being incapable of coherent speech or even coherent thought is having a good time. I realise thats just me though, and everyone's different.

I don't drink, never have because I don't like it, and I never want to be one of those people who wake up and wonder what or who they did the night before.

I saw a girl peeing in a doorway once, in full view of passers-by and oblivious to the disgust of strangers. Its quite possible that she woke up the next day and told her friends 'It was a great night, I don't remember anything!'.

So to answer the question from a female perspective, no, I'd never drive on with a drunk person. Not primarily because I might be accused of something dodgy, not primarily because it would make me explotative of someone compromised, not primarily because there's a difference in our levels of drunkeness, but because I find it a complete turn off.

Mrmoe

Kooli wrote: »

Well the fact that some people have responded by saying that 'a grown woman is responsible for her actions, drunk or not' says to me that it does not 'go without saying' that everyone is on the same page regarding the consent issue.

I have to disagree to a certain extent there. I think women should be responsible for their actions even when they are drunk but that does not mean it extends to rape or sexual assault and that was the crux of the problem and what some were being accused of.

Kooli

Mrmoe wrote: »

I have to disagree to a certain extent there. I think women should be responsible for their actions even when they are drunk but that does not mean it extends to rape or sexual assault and that was the crux of the problem and what some were being accused of.

But I don't think there's a consensus on what actually constitutes rape or sexual assault when it comes to the drunkenness issue.

sam34

CDfm wrote: »

Hiya Taco.

That is very subjective as and what yardstick do you use. If a person is still walking and talking they can give consent.




People do a lot worse when they drink -such as drive.

We do not excuse that as poor judgement so why excuse sleeping with someone.

this is a very interesting point, and one i thought a lot about recently in the light of a particular criminal case.

your point

If a person is still walking and talking they can give consent.

isnt actually correct. they may be walking and talking but their judgement may be so impaired (by an intoxicant) that they cannot give valid consent.

now:

a)what lad, possibly drunk himself, in search of a shag at 2am is going to be able to accurately assess someone's capacity to consent?

b)if she is incapable of consenting, should any guy who "drives on" be prosecuted? or is the fact that she is responsible for her own incapacity (rather than any illness etc) be taken into account?

c)why then are drunk drivers deemed to be responsible for their actions, if it can be shown that their judgement was sufficiently impaired to prevent them making a rational decision?

note: i am not trying to start any fights/heated debates, i'm just genuinely a bit puzzled by this.

metrovelvet

Exactly.

Also, lets face it, there are girls/women so shy of their own sexuality they have to drown their inhibitions. And also blame tne drink.

CDfm

Mrmoe wrote: »

Do we have to state explicitly that we would not rape or sexually assault someone?.

Taco is alright.

It is a fairly gauche subject "drunk girl sex" & it is not very pc. There is nothing romantic about it.

fonecrusher1

taconnol wrote: »

This thread is the most depressing I've read in a long, long time.

I didn't accuse anyone of anything. My post was gender neutral and I clarified that in a later post. As was pointed out by another poster, my issue with the discussion was that of all the reasons discussed for not wanting to take a drunk person home, their inability to consent wasn't one of them. If both people are drunk then tough on both of them but when one is sober and another drunk, the burden of responsibility changes.

And as an aside, it is a disgrace that in 2010 anyone still thinks that a person being drunk makes them in any way responsible for a sexual assault. That goes for men and women.

And your first reply has got to be the most negative, miserable contribution ive seen in a long time.

Its depressing because you twisted it into a depressing thread. Talk about killing the mood & now your bringing up sexual assault????!!!

What started out as an honest, light-hearted account of a personal experience has now become a debate about sexual predators.:rolleyes:

Its responses like yours that actually discourage people from contributing to this forum for fear of being demonised.

donfers

just last saturday i had a few beers with some mates and went up to the dance floor, wasn't too drunk and was enjoying the music, one girl kept coming over to me and dancing near me but I took no notice of her as I have a girlfriend and just danced away, didn't even make eye contact...then suddenly out of the blue I get a hand pushed into my face, i just kind of stopped and stepped back a bit startled, wandering what the feck was that...then I noticed it was a friend/acquaintance of the girl who had been trying to dance with me for the last while, she was wagging her finger at me and basically saying stay away from her WHEN THAT HAD BEEN EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DOING NOT THAT IT WAS ANY OF HER BUSINESS, anyway I didn't even have the chance to tell her to get knotted before from the corner of my eye I noticed some bouncers rushing onto the floor in my direction. I thought to myself, here we go, no doubt, as the guy I will be blamed as the bad guy in this situation...but to my enormous surprise they went to the girl who put the hand in my face, had a few strong words with here and escorted her off the floor, they didn't even say word to me. They must have seen the whole situation develop as the dancefloor wasn't exactly crowded. I was delighted about that and continued dancing away for the rest of the night, it was one of those rare occassions on a night out when the guy is not automatically assumed to be the bad guy.

I have no problems with girls getting drunk, they have as much right to do that as any guy does, what everybody, male or female has to do is to realise where their limit is, where the point of losing self-control is and most importantly be responsible for the consequences of how they behave when drunk.

Nobody forces the drink down us,w e choose ourselves to drink, we can stop whenever we like, the sad truth is many people actually actively seek to get drunk for the very reason that they want to lose control and remove inhibitions.

Short of someone not being able to stand up or string a sentence together they must be responsible for what happens in their drunken state.

x in the city

girls in clubs and pubs are as unpredictable as when the next storm is coming when they are pisheddd.

particularly in the 20s bracket.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Max Power1 wrote: »

being drunk does not remove the ability to consent.

This is an excuse used by women when they wake up beside an "uggo".

To be honest I think this is true in the vast vast majority of cases.

Its very difficult to define. This is a bit of a tangent but I think sufficiently relevant to the topic

Last year slept with a girl i normally wouldn't touch. I was quite drunk. If 1=Sober and 10=Babbling incoherently and falling over I was about an 8

Everyone else left the house and she came on to me quite heavily. Now I kind of didn't want to do it but only cause I wasn't overly physically attracted to her. If I was sober/less drunk I think I would of walked outta there. But at the same time I wanted to ride something. So I slept with her and regretted it in the morning.

I definitely had the ability to say no so you could argue there was consent. But given I wouldn't have done it sober(and have turned same girl down since then) you could argue it wasn't real consent

What do you think? Also if the sexes were reversed would that change your opinon?

Snowie

There is nothing worse then a drunk women who cant handle their drink.
Its embarrassing to watch and completely unattractive....

Its a deal breaker for me....

Macha

Well, I do apologise for derailing this thread. In hindsight my first post was overly confrontational and presumptuous. I was merely disappointed that in a discussion on drunk partners, inability to consent didn't feature. I would have posted something similar in such a discussion in TLL but I clearly didn't handle this one very well.

Maguined

taconnol wrote: »

Well, I do apologise for derailing this thread. In hindsight my first post was overly confrontational and presumptuous. I was merely disappointed that in a discussion on drunk partners, inability to consent didn't feature. I would have posted something similar in such a discussion in TLL but I clearly didn't handle this one very well.

I think it might just have been down to a bit of gender difference, women are taught by society to be a bit careful and wary in a pub environment, drink spiking and date rape while not common are still something women have to be wary when out in a pub so women are naturally more protective of their friends when out so are more cautious if they see another woman visibly drunk and if interacting with a man there is the possibility of the women being taken advantage of.

Men realistically do not have these concerns so when they saw this thread and the threat of taking advantage of a girl is not the major concern as that is not the goal of the average man so they know that is something they would not do so it comes more down to the grey area of the girl being drunk but still in control enough to give consent. While from taconnols point of view you may have viewed the scenario as more negative and threatening than it was intended.

Again I don't mean to speak on your behalf just theorizing why men and women might have different assumptions about the proposed theoretical scenario.

HavingCrack

Funnily enough it was my mother of all people who said to me "the only thing more annoying than a drunk man is a drunk woman". I have to agree with her. In my experience drunk women are far, far, faaar more irritating than a drunk man. But tis just my personal experience, I'm not trying to generalise .

krudler

Drunk women who think they can get away with anything purely becuas they're "just having a laugh" is so annoying. I know a few bouncers and they all say drunk women are way harder to deal with at 2am than drunk guys.

doctorwu

ScareGilly ever hear of sarcism?.

Maguined

If fairness to those drunk that's not their fault, I don't think its because they are potentially anymore annoying than drunk men but more the fact they can get away with it more. A bouncer can easily step in and deal with a drunk man acting out of order so the problem gets nipped straight away, chances are bouncer are far less likely to have to step in and deal with drunk women so they have to put up with their antics far more and wait till the drunk women really cross the line before stepping in.

Pembily

CDfm wrote: »

That she might well regret her behavior the following morning.

Surely, she has some responsibility for the amount she drinks and her behavior after that. She is not a child and knows that drinking to that excess reduces her inhibitions.

Yes but if she cries rape the accusation sticks!!! My inital thought on reading Taco post was exactly, are guys not afraid of being accused, as I know someone who was wrongly accused!!!

Mrmoe wrote: »

Do we have to state explicitly that we would not rape or sexually assault someone? I think most people here take this as the case. I do not think anyone here would condone having sex with a woman who could not give consent. By saying that nobody mentioned it you are suggesting that we give it a thumbs up and when it is followed up by the "wow, just wow" comment. That to me is an insult to my character and those of other posters.

But how do you define "giving consent" when a person is hammered?!?!?!?!

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

But at the same time I wanted to ride something. So I slept with her and regretted it in the morning.

I definitely had the ability to say no so you could argue there was consent. But given I wouldn't have done it sober(and have turned same girl down since then) you could argue it wasn't real consent

What do you think? Also if the sexes were reversed would that change your opinon?

If it was a girl asking this question, I would say the exact same thing I would not go home with a girl / guy that was hammered as I do not enjoy drunken sex and I am not a fan of hearing people puke or trying to sleep next to random drunken strangers!!!!

Drunken women are harder to control as they "appear" safer but as pointed out they are not and they tend to be messier and more violent, all be it less obviously!!!

krudler

If it was a girl asking this question, I would say the exact same thing I would not go home with a girl / guy that was hammered as I do not enjoy drunken sex and I am not a fan of hearing people puke or trying to sleep next to random drunken strangers!!!!

drunken sex with strangers is crap, tipsy/drunk sex with a partner while both massively horny is however, awesome

AngryBadger

Are best avoided, they're either so much more ignorant than drunk guys it's a complete shock, or you'll most likely be accused of a crime when they realise sleeping with you was a mistake