Why Is Marijuana Illegal?

Odysseus

TPD wrote: »

I was just using E as an example of a low danger drug. If alcohol were made illegal, it may become the gateway drug.

Professionally you don't deal with alcohol, but do you see how easily a comparison is drawn? It's a bit silly to use the gateway argument against cannabis when cannabis is only filling the 'gateway' spot by chance, and a change in law could switch another drug to the 'gateway' position.

Of course, I agree on that point, but then again can you tell me the difference between a drug, a medicine and a poison. It's not as easy as it first looks. As you noted some food stuffs change mood, some poisons can be used to treat illnesses, some medicines can kill. It's a complex issue, and all our powers to be can do is come up with simple answers, most people who know little about drug use think that the only way to control a problem is to ban it.

Sadly we are becoming more and more controlled in relation to our laws, look at the thread here about codeine. The benefit's of any medical use it may have is a non-starter here; unless the people who want it legal have a condition that would benefit form it. I doubt anybody discussing the topic here has such a condition.

There is an unfairness in the law around drugs, if I had my way I would allow regulated access to most drugs. However, is this going to change I really don't think so, well it will but it will be in the other direction with more and more laws restricting access to chemicals.

This unfairness applies in other areas, how come I'm deemed safe to possess 3 firearms but unsafe to own a 9mm Glock. If you think the drug laws are bad, spend a bit of time on the shooting forum, you will see the laws are just as bad. It's coming from the same place. The drug treatment facilities we have were developed not out of any desire to help people, but out of the general public's fear of HIV in the late 80s, that and an attempt to reduce criminality.

The only thing that got me involved in this debate were the statement's that is has no negative effects psychologically and that people can't get addicted. It the thing that is missing from most pro-legal viewpoints, will that happen to everybody no, of course not. However, that doesn't mean it can be ignored either. A lot of people seem to think that making a plea to science will win the arguement either way; really at the heart of it is a moral belief that drug taking is wrong.

Whether you like it or not, a lot of it comes down to that, and I still have 25 years left to work in addiction before I retire, however, I sadly think the laws will still be the same when I'm finally given my clock.

I_AmThe_Walrus

Odysseus wrote: »

A lot of people seem to think that making a plea to science will win the arguement either way; really at the heart of it is a moral belief that drug taking is wrong.

Ah yes, the ever reliable words of God and morality...something this country has been struggling to isolate itself from for decades. I understand folks assumption that drugs equals bad but nothing thus far has proved that marijuana differs from any other drugs currently on display in your local supermarket, regarding side effects.

There is currently a complete lack of education from foundation levels regarding this county and our academic endeavors where drugs are concerned but I am with you on the point one hundred percent about proper regulation of said substances. I just wish people were educated enough to listen to reason and not count the days to the apocalypse seeing it decriminalised.

mathepac

Newsflash - marijuana is not illegal because marijuana is not a drug. It is not listed in any of the schedules to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 and is not listed as a drug in the WHO lexicon of alcohol and drug terms.

So there's been all this "discussion" about a non-issue. Just browsing the posts it seems to be yet another of those Daily Mail / Daily Star type polls that has generated more heat than light around the non-subject.

OP, what next? Could I suggest another scientific poll entitled :

"Why are Flights to Mars Dangerous?"

Is it because they :

1. threaten Martian property values or
2. lead to overcrowding on intra-galactic shuttles?

cypharius

mathepac wrote: »

Newsflash - marijuana is not illegal because marijuana is not a drug. It is not listed in any of the schedules to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 and is not listed as a drug in the WHO lexicon of alcohol and drug terms.

So there's been all this "discussion" about a non-issue. Just browsing the posts it seems to be yet another of those Daily Mail / Daily Star type polls that has generated more heat than light around the non-subject.

OP, what next? Could I suggest another scientific poll entitled :

"Why are Flights to Mars Dangerous?"

Is it because they :

1. threaten Martian property values or
2. lead to overcrowding on intra-galactic shuttles?

Try that in court please.

I_AmThe_Walrus

mathepac wrote: »

Newsflash - marijuana is not illegal because marijuana is not a drug. It is not listed in any of the schedules to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 and is not listed as a drug in the WHO lexicon of alcohol and drug terms.

So there's been all this "discussion" about a non-issue. Just browsing the posts it seems to be yet another of those Daily Mail / Daily Star type polls that has generated more heat than light around the non-subject.

Of course it's an issue. Saying one doesn't exist because Marijuana isn't labeled a drug is no less to the point than saying Marijuana shouldn't be legal with no conclusion as to why you hold such views.

Do you think with an attitude like yours, we would accomplish anything even remotely beneficial to our species? I think not.

Marijuana is not illegal, you say, yet people are arrested for it everyday all over the globe. The last time I checked, I believe I'd be investigated if I called the local Garda station with info of my twenty tonne stash hid throughout my home.

Regardless of whether or not it is considered a "drug", trust me, I don't like the term "drug" either in description to cannabis but the fact remains that there are punishments put in place in our society (Ireland) for possession of such substances.

OP, what next? Could I suggest another scientific poll entitled :

"Why are Flights to Mars Dangerous?"

Is it because they :

1. threaten Martian property values or
2. lead to overcrowding on intra-galactic shuttles?

That sounds like an awesome thread. I look forward to reading it. :P

Strange Loop

mathepac wrote: »

Newsflash - marijuana is not illegal because marijuana is not a drug. It is not listed in any of the schedules to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 and is not listed as a drug in the WHO lexicon of alcohol and drug terms.

All those convicted of marijuana relatated drugs offences will be dancing a jig at this news.

I expect there'll be a flurry of activity in the judges chambers next week.

I_AmThe_Walrus

Strange Loop wrote: »

All those convicted of marijuana relatated drugs offences will be dancing a jig at this news.

I expect there'll be a flurry of activity in the judges chambers next week.

Wow, I completely misread your username.

chops1990

I'm a regular user of the so called "drug" and i'm not in anyway shape or form addicted to it. Sometimes I use it days on end, take big breaks and so on so forth, but I've never experienced any form of withdrawal or strong need to consume it.

How can a plant be called a drug? Just because people get high by smoking/eating it? The only health side effects I've been able to find through research and general use, is that its bad for your lungs, no more than smoking tobacco is!

The vote on this thread just shows how much people accept it. 81% for it and 18% against. Astronomical difference! As the OP has stated it's never been linked to a fatality, ever, compared to drink and tobacco which have frightening statisitcs!

I strongly feel it should be decriminalised or even legalized, as long as it isnt placed under massive taxation which in effect would be the same as keeping it illegal. It would topple criminal gangs involved in drugs, which'd be the vast majority if not all of them.

Many reputable researchers and professors from leading colleges in America such as harvard and other Ivory league schools have done studies on Cannabis and it's ill effects and positive ones. They show hardly any ill effects, and plenty of healthy ones, like alleviating the pain of arthritis sufferers and cancer patients while also helping cancer patients to eat. However the government will not listen to the experts, because the Government use Cannabis for their own needs. For example, during the Vietnam War cannabis smoking was running rampant through the rank and file of the american army. This is when the "War Against drugs" really came into it's own, because you see when people get stoned the last thing they want to do is fight, and that doesn't make good little obedient soldiers!

Compared to alcohol, excuse me for being insensitve, causes husbands to come home and beat their wives and children, the streets to be littered with drunk people fighting and winding up the Guards in otherwise unneccessary calls, when they could be following up more important things, Murder, Rape, and God knows what else!

Portugal has already decriminalised most illegal drugs and it has had massive succeess since its introduction 5 years ago. Just google Portugese drug laws.

IsThisIt???

The only reason marijuana can even be considered a gateway drug is cos you can get stuck buyin off some scummy dealer who wants to push endless amounts of other stuff on you when all you want is some smoke. Legalising it would end that problem.

Having said that I don't think it ever will be legalised in Ireland. There has always been a mentality on Ireland that marijuana is dangerous. Howard marks even said how members of the IRA, a group willing to kill innocent people for their cause, were reluctant to get involved in dealing and smuggling.

Odysseus

chops1990 wrote: »

How can a plant be called a drug? Just because people get high by smoking/eating it? The only health side effects I've been able to find through research and general use, is that its bad for your lungs, no more than smoking tobacco is!

Opium comes from what again?

I_AmThe_Walrus

Odysseus wrote: »

Opium comes from what again?

Granted, Opium comes from the poppy plant but it is already a tool in medicines arsenal, Morphine. Yes, it has side-effects but Morphine isn't given the same amount of bad press such as Marijuana because it's an accepted medicine but that could be said for Cannabis too, although it remains a property of satan in the media, almost.

The same can be said for Cocaine, also a natural plant, Coca, which I have several of them sitting beside me right now that I picked up in Peru for my tea. The thing about Cocaine is that it is not used recreationally in it's natural form. It is treated and mixed with very toxic substances to the human body.

Marijuana can be smoked right from growth. It is more natural than other plant based drugs is what Chops was trying to say, I assume.

chops1990

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Marijuana can be smoked right from growth. It is more natural than other plant based drugs is what Chops was trying to say, I assume.

Exactly, Thanks for that!

mathepac

Some of the content in the last few posts confirmed the suspicion I formed when browsing the thread that in-depth knowledge of the topic under discussion is scarce.

Please read my initial post again, c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y, before dashing off a response. Read what is actually written, not what you think it suggests.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

... Do you think with an attitude like yours, we would accomplish anything even remotely beneficial to our species? I think not. ...

I doubt if much of any import will be achieved using the knowledge base displayed in the thread so far, and my "attitude" is unlikely to be much of an additional hindrance; on the other hand my honesty could be beneficial.

In racing parlance I fear the handicapper has been unkind to the thread as a potential saviour of the species.

I_AmThe_Walrus

mathepac wrote: »

Some of the content in the last few posts confirmed the suspicion I formed when browsing the thread that in-depth knowledge of the topic under discussion is scarce.

Please read my initial post again, c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y, before dashing off a response. Read what is actually written, not what you think it suggests.
I doubt if much of any import will be achieved using the knowledge base displayed in the thread so far, and my "attitude" is unlikely to be much of an additional hindrance; on the other hand my honesty could be beneficial.

In racing parlance I fear the handicapper has been unkind to the thread as a potential saviour of the species.

I disagree.

I think there are many posters with firm and in-dept knowledge of the topic who have contributed greatly to the debate. Having said that, there are comments who dismiss the idea of decriminalisation without proper and intelligent justification.

Moreover, I'd like to point out that the information regarding your post about the Misuse of Drugs Act was a nice addition to the discussion but the fact remains that, even though Marijuana may not be included in the "drug list" for lack of a better term, it is a punishable offense in this state.

Furthermore, I don't see Marijuana legalisation as the savior to our species, I just see double standards being applied within our Government and relevant authorities as to why [enter random legal addictive here] is "okay" and Marijuana is socially unacceptable and a hindrance to mankind when it possesses less or, no more than, harmful effects other "drugs" cause to the human psyche and physical condition.

The two wrongs (three), don't make a right isn't a great argument either. It is hypocritical.

seensensee

mathepac wrote: »

Newsflash - marijuana is not illegal because marijuana is not a drug. It is not listed in any of the schedules to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 and is not listed as a drug in the WHO lexicon of alcohol and drug terms.

So there's been all this "discussion" about a non-issue. Just browsing the posts it seems to be yet another of those Daily Mail / Daily Star type polls that has generated more heat than light around the non-subject.

OP, what next? Could I suggest another scientific poll entitled :

"Why are Flights to Mars Dangerous?"

Is it because they :

1. threaten Martian property values or
2. lead to overcrowding on intra-galactic shuttles?

Hiya mathepac, you may well be correct with what you suggest above, I did'nt bother to check the 1977 misuse of drug act because it is now irrelevant due to the fact that it has been replaced by...
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0018/index.html
...misuse of drug act 1984.
Have a look and see has "marijuana" been covered by the legislation?

mikom

mathepac wrote: »

Newsflash - marijuana is not illegal because marijuana is not a drug. It is not listed in any of the schedules to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 and is not listed as a drug in the WHO lexicon of alcohol and drug terms.

That's because the correct term is Cannabis, ie. Cannabis sativa, Cannabis indica, Cannabis ruderalis, and all crosses.

I_AmThe_Walrus

seensensee wrote: »

Hiya mathepac, you may well be correct with what you suggest above, I did'nt bother to check the 1977 misuse of drug act because it is now irrelevant due to the fact that it has been replaced by...
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0018/index.html
...misuse of drug act 1984.
Have a look and see has "marijuana" been covered by the legislation?

mikom wrote: »

That's because the correct term is Cannabis, ie. Cannabis sativa, Cannabis indica, Cannabis ruderalis, and all crosses.

Wow, well that argument has just been blown out of the water.

Anyone else?

Odysseus

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Granted, Opium comes from the poppy plant but it is already a tool in medicines arsenal, Morphine. Yes, it has side-effects but Morphine isn't given the same amount of bad press such as Marijuana because it's an accepted medicine but that could be said for Cannabis too, although it remains a property of satan in the media, almost.

The same can be said for Cocaine, also a natural plant, Coca, which I have several of them sitting beside me right now that I picked up in Peru for my tea. The thing about Cocaine is that it is not used recreationally in it's natural form. It is treated and mixed with very toxic substances to the human body.

Marijuana can be smoked right from growth. It is more natural than other plant based drugs is what Chops was trying to say, I assume.

People chew coca leaves for the same thing the active ingredient, it the plant a drug or the active ingredient, but in reference to how can a plant be a drug, that is the answer. Recreational use of morphine is given the same bad press, people don't have as easy access to it, otherwise it would get the same press, no?

seensensee

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Wow, well that argument has just been blown out of the water.

Right on, BS needs to be exposed for what it is.

james23993

folan wrote: »

Because of pressure from the States which made it illegal in the early part of the last century.

George Washington grew it on his plantation.

That was hemp that he grew on his plantation. Completely different strain of cannabis contains barley any THC and was used in textile production.

Kurtosis

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Granted, Opium comes from the poppy plant but it is already a tool in medicines arsenal, Morphine. Yes, it has side-effects but Morphine isn't given the same amount of bad press such as Marijuana because it's an accepted medicine but that could be said for Cannabis too, although it remains a property of satan in the media, almost.

Oh right, so if cannabis based products were licensed as medicines and put on prescription for various illnesses, would you be happy with that result?

mathepac

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Wow, well that argument has just been blown out of the water. ...

Not at all - it's just more evidence in support of my original point. The 1984 Misuse of Drugs Act contains this :
Definition. 1.—In this Act "the Principal Act" means the Misuse of Drugs Act, 1977

mikom wrote: »

That's because the correct term is Cannabis, ie. Cannabis sativa, Cannabis indica, Cannabis ruderalis, and all crosses.

I'd argue that the correct term is probably anything other than the nonsense masquerading as fact in the opening post and elsewhere in the thread.

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Wow, well that argument has just been blown out of the water. ...

Hardly but then the thread generally has had difficulty letting accuracy or facts get in the way of sensationalism. Wow.

mikom

mikom wrote: »

That's because the correct term is Cannabis, ie. Cannabis sativa, Cannabis indica, Cannabis ruderalis, and all crosses.

mathepac wrote: »

I'd argue that the correct term is probably anything other than the nonsense masquerading as fact in the opening post and elsewhere in the thread.
Hardly but then the thread generally has had difficulty letting accuracy or facts get in the way of sensationalism. Wow.

You have a point there.
As long as you don't lump us all in the one boat.

20 Times 20 Times

50 bags for sale

I_AmThe_Walrus

mathepac wrote: »

Not at all - it's just more evidence in support of my original point. The 1984 Misuse of Drugs Act contains this :
Definition. 1.—In this Act "the Principal Act" means the Misuse of Drugs Act, 1977


I'd argue that the correct term is probably anything other than the nonsense masquerading as fact in the opening post and elsewhere in the thread.
Hardly but then the thread generally has had difficulty letting accuracy or facts get in the way of sensationalism. Wow.

So you're thoroughly against the decriminlisation of said substance, medical use and regulation of it...

penguin88 wrote: »

Oh right, so if cannabis based products were licensed as medicines and put on prescription for various illnesses, would you be happy with that result?

Yes. A step in the right direction.

Sarge wrote: »

50 bags for sale

Reported!

j/k

seensensee

mathepac wrote: »

I'd argue that the correct term is probably anything other than the nonsense masquerading as fact in the opening post and elsewhere in the thread.
Hardly but then the thread generally has had difficulty letting accuracy or facts get in the way of sensationalism. Wow.

Looks like you are in need of some education...

Misuse of Drugs Act, 1984

2 1984 18
[GA] New definition of "cannabis" and "opium poppy" and other amendments of section 1 (1) of Principal Act. 2.—section 1 (1) of the Principal Act is hereby amended by—
[GA]
( a ) the substitution of the following definition for the definition of "cannabis":
[GA]
"'cannabis' (except in 'cannabis resin') means any plant of the genus Cannabis or any part of any such plant (by whatever name designated) but includes neither cannabis resin nor any of the following products after separation from the rest of any such plant, namely—
[GA]
( a ) mature stalk of any such plant,
[GA]
( b ) fibre produced from such mature stalk, or
[GA]
( c ) seed of any such plant;";

The act clearly covers all terms relating to cannabis, that includes "marijuana".

Don't panic if you don't understand the above, it takes time to sink in.

mikom

seensensee wrote: »

Looks like you are in need of some education...

Misuse of Drugs Act, 1984

2 1984 18
[GA] New definition of "cannabis" and "opium poppy" and other amendments of section 1 (1) of Principal Act. 2.—section 1 (1) of the Principal Act is hereby amended by—
[GA]
( a ) the substitution of the following definition for the definition of "cannabis":
[GA]
"'cannabis' (except in 'cannabis resin') means any plant of the genus Cannabis or any part of any such plant (by whatever name designated) but includes neither cannabis resin nor any of the following products after separation from the rest of any such plant, namely—
[GA]
( a ) mature stalk of any such plant,
[GA]
( b ) fibre produced from such mature stalk, or
[GA]
( c ) seed of any such plant;";

The act clearly covers all terms relating to cannabis, that includes "marijuana".

Don't panic if you don't understand the above, it takes time to sink in.

Now folks, don't forget to read c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y.......

Kurtosis

I_AmThe_Walrus wrote: »

Yes. A step in the right direction.

I really wish people looking for the legalisation/decriminalisation of cannabis would stop jumping on the campaign for the medical use of cannabis. These are two distinct causes, one does not follow on from the other. To be honest, I actually think the case for medical use is actually damaged by the association with pro-legalisation groups.

seensensee

Sarge wrote: »

50 bags for sale

Plastic or paper?

Strange Loop

mikom wrote: »

Now folks, don't forget to read c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y.......

( b ) fibre produced from such mature stalk, or

So, hemp clothes are illegal?