An Post sacks post office worker after she was held at gunpoint

OutlawPete

Cheek of them.

The woman worked in the rural post office for 30years!

Naff all else she could have done.

A post office worker has had her contract terminated because An Post said she did not follow the correct security procedures during an armed robbery last year.

Bernie Moore has run the post office in Carrigans in Co Donegal for 30 years.

Last February, three armed raiders held-up the post office and got away with cash from the safe.

Ms Moore was held at gunpoint and was forced to hand over the cash from the safe.

An Post contacted Ms Moore after the raid and demanded that she pay them €80,000 and they told her they were terminating her contract.
In a statement today, An Post said: 'While we do not wish to comment on an individual case we can confirm that the issue in Carrigans involved ongoing failure to implement basic security arrangements.

'For this reason we terminated the contract of our Postmistress in Carrigans.

'These security measures are in place for the protection of post office staff and customers.

'Failing to implement these measures puts all post office staff and customers at risk.'

An Post has advertised for a replacement postmaster for the Carrigans area starting on 1 September, the day Ms Moore's contract ends.

Source


Where they right or wrong on this?

caseyann

What did she do hand over the money?

Our man in Havana

There is alot more to this than what is being reported in the media.

Gummy Panda

It depends on the rest of the facts. It could be she wasn't following proper security procedures e.g. too much cash on site.

Can't really say without all the facts

Sounds a bit too simplistic to me

Methinks there may be more to this than what we are hearing

Bogger77

it's not as simple as the "tear jerking" story lists

In post offices, there's rules to follow, such as making sure there's not an unwatched entrance, such as a back door left open, allowing people to bypass security screens and camera (happened in a PO in Offaly). Ensuring safes are kept locked, using time safe, ensuring camera's are working, pressing alarm buzzers, etc.

If the post mistress wasn't following these steps, or whatever her employers have requested, then yes, it's right to take the contract from her.
A soft touch where all security isn't implemented fully, puts everyone at risk, and increases costs for the rest of us.

karlog

What is the basic security measures that should have been taken?

Grab the shotgun under the counter and have a shootout i think.

Numina

caseyann wrote: »

What did she do hand over the money?

Did you even read the OP's post?

SoupyNorman

OutlawPete wrote: »

Where they right or wrong on this?

It was the raiders money, they just didnt want to fill out the forms.

Biggins

I suspect that she was not following strict guidelines in regards to her own security and welfare of the property.
Obviously there was an investigation by the Gardi who made a copy of their investigation report to a number of folk, including the PO heads, an insurance company, etc.

While I have deep sympathy for the woman not just because she was serving the community for 30+ years, but she seems genuine and she didn't deserve such treatment by crooks, I would just like to point out that anything she was/wasn't doing right, might have provided the legal grounds to let her go.
As such by some actions/inactions that subsequently might have allowed her to be robbed more so, she voided her employment contract with them and they have used this reason let her go.

kylith

Poor woman, but if she wasn't following the rules she wasn't fulfilling her contract.

My money's on her not having the cash in a time locked safe.

mikom

"No, Father. It's my money. I just didn't want to fill out the forms. "

caseyann

Numina wrote: »

Did you even read the OP's post?

It was a joke hello!!!! Meaning did they sack her for handing over the money
Nothing would surprise me is what is to come from that comment.As they would rather you dead then the money lost.

There is not enough information to go by why they sacked her.

Kasabian

The whole episode seems to indicate that she hadn't followed strict security policies in accordance with An Post' guidelines.

fontanalis

Either way, NAMA will cost more than what was taken and no-one will get fired for that!

Kasabian

mikom wrote: »

"No, Father. It's my money. I just didn't want to fill out the forms. "

Soupy Norman pipped you

Biggins

caseyann wrote: »

...There is not enough information to go by why they sacked her.

Very true.
They wouldn't have sacked her without feeling sure however that they had reason and the legal grounds to do so.
As Haddockman said, there is more to this than meets the eye I too suspect.

SoupyNorman

I was held up at knife point while working in a video store one night...it was about 30mins before closing. I handed over the loot no question and no resistance, was over in seconds. However there was only about €40 in the till. We were trained to never have anymore then €150 in the till at any one time, it was in our training to constantly drop the surplus cash into the safe (which we had no access to other then to drop the loot in).

My manager told of at least 3 past cases where employees were sacked for not following this practice, 2 of which brought cases against the employer and lost.

Anita Blow

There needs to be a law similar to Godwin's law which deals with the inevitable NAMA/FF post in every thread

fontanalis

Anita Blow wrote: »

There needs to be a law similar to Godwin's law which deals with the inevitable NAMA/FF post in every thread

I can think of billions of reasons for not having a law.
No more insulting the gombeens in this thread from me.

DazMarz

As someone who works in a post office, I can say that I'm only sorry An Post aren't taking her to court.

Guns or no guns, no armed raiders should be able to get anywhere near €10,000 (never mind €100,000) in a post office if the security protocols that An Post employees are under contract to abide by are followed.

Between drop-safes, time locked safes, time locked cash drawers etc. that are standard in ALL post offices nowadays, there is simply no excuse for anything over what would normally be in the cash drawer at the counter (2 grand if the raider is very lucky).

This manager was obviously not following procedure and not doing her job, so An Post were 110% correct in throwing every book they could find at her.

My office was subjected to an armed raid not 2 months ago and thanks to An Post's excellent security measures... the raiders did not get a single penny and were forced to flee empty handed. The Gardaí were on-sight mere moments later, again thanks to the excellent alarms/panic-buttons provided by An Post.

Armed robbery is traumatic for anyone who suffers from it. But the fact remains that this woman provided incentive for future armed raiders of other offices by not following correct, standardised procedure. And any employer has the right to throw the book at an employee who does not do their job right, no matter what the situation and particularly if an employee's disregard for their job causes the employer to lose €100,000!

OutlawPete

Here's an interview with her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bNwgE97nQ

K-9

Highland Radio » Carrigans Postmistress, Bernie Moore, speaks out about her ordeal

But Bernie says there was nothing she could of done the day of the robbery

Indeed.

Didn't seem to be doing too much the previous days either.

caseyann

Biggins wrote: »

Very true.
They wouldn't have sacked her without feeling sure however that they had reason and the legal grounds to do so.
As Haddockman said, there is more to this than meets the eye I too suspect.

It would be nice to hear what she did wrong so we could make proper judgement on it,Until then i feel sorry for her

OutlawPete wrote: »

Here's an interview with her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bNwgE97nQ

From what i can hear she couldnt have done anything so what did she do wrong?

Biggins

caseyann wrote: »

It would be nice to hear what she did wrong so we could make proper judgement on it,Until then i feel sorry for her
From what i can hear she couldnt have done anything so what did she do wrong?

Well if she has a case, she will be taking an unfair dismissal case or put in a claim herself for a breach of contract by the PO.
* I note however that she doesn't state that they breached their contract by letting her go!

If she has a case indeed I look forwards to hearing the details in court of this unusual case.

caseyann

Biggins wrote: »

Well if she has a case, she will be taking an unfair dismissal case or put in a claim herself for a breach of contract by the PO.
* I note however that she doesn't state that they breached their contract by letting her go!

If she has a case indeed I look forwards to hearing the details in court of this unusual case.

I know you would imagine someone who has worked for them for 30 years :eek: is that right? wouldn't make a mistake.

Could they not have demoted her or gave her a slap on wrist for 30 years of loyalty.lol

mikemac

She didn't follow procedures so losing her job, it's the correct thing to do. To have €80,000 in a safe is a joke

The criminals throughout Ireland will look at this and the gardai are probably expecting a lot of extra attempts at post offices over the next month.
Through her carelessness it's not a stretch to say she could indirectly put other staff and gardai at risk.

I've never worked in a post office but did in a hotel reception and we had drop safes for a reason.
If we exceeded a certain amount of cash and/or every two hours, money went to the drop safe.
Hold a gun to my head and I could not open that drop safe, the general manager and the duty manager are the only people for that.

Procedures are there for a reason and realy, this women could be in court but An Post won't do that

Biggins

caseyann wrote: »

I know you would imagine someone who has worked for them for 30 years :eek: is that right? wouldn't make a mistake.

Everyone's human and prone to slip up once in a while but if the PO was showed by Garda investigation report that she clearly did something that wasn't strict procedure, she might have given them reason for the sacking.

It should be noted that they have already advertised for a replacement.
This is important as it shows her sacking wasn't just a crafty way of perhaps getting one more regional post office to close, maybe on a cheaper route. No...
It was clearly an individual problem - not a post office building problem as such.

Hogzy

Absolutly shocked that this hasnt been mentioned yet. Just shows you what society is coming to but why was she allowed out of the kitchen in the first place?

OutlawPete

feelingstressed wrote: »

If we exceeded a certain amount of cash and/or every two hours, money went to the drop safe.

We know all that.

I worked in a 24 hour shop that also had that procedure.

But rural post offices are slightly different.

Bookies work on the same principal as sometimes you have to access cash (a big win, someone wants to withdraw their savings etc).

The timer was on the safe as she explains and they came in just as the safe was open.

caseyann

OutlawPete wrote: »

We know all that.

I worked in a 24 hour shop that also had that procedure.

But rural post offices are slightly different.

Bookies work on the same principal as sometimes you have to access cash (a big win, someone wants to withdraw their savings etc).

The timer was on the safe as she explains and they came in just as the safe was open.

I know i smell something not right,i could be wrong.But this story is lacking still

Pace2008

caseyann wrote: »

I know you would imagine someone who has worked for them for 30 years :eek: is that right? wouldn't make a mistake.

On the other hand, you could posit that someone who's worked in the same job for that length of time, with relatively little incident, might be a little too in their comfort zone and may have become lax in certain areas of their duty.

All conjecture, obviously.

rubadub

caseyann wrote: »

From what i can hear she couldnt have done anything so what did she do wrong?

Well you didn't honestly expect her to spill her guts on how she actually f**ked up and didn't do her job did you?

caseyann wrote: »

30 years of loyalty

We have no idea how loyal she was, and for how long. This quote spoke volumes to me.

involved ongoing failure to implement basic security arrangements

If it was a young lad in his 20's I doubt he would get a fraction of the sympathy, esp. if it was a private security firm who said the same thing about "ongoing failure". To me it is a nice terminology to avoid any sort of defamation charge, sort of like rte news saying some scumbag shot in a pub was "known to gardai" -nudge nudge, wink wink, everybody knows what they really mean.

tallaghtoutlaws

caseyann wrote: »

I know you would imagine someone who has worked for them for 30 years :eek: is that right? wouldn't make a mistake.

Could they not have demoted her or gave her a slap on wrist for 30 years of loyalty.lol

Lets not forget security measures have changed so much in 30 years. Huge difference in Post Offices these days than there was even 10 years ago. Spoke to one of the girls in the Post Office in my area earlier and they said if they were robbed today there is no way the thief would get anywhere near 80k. Time locked safes and drops by securicor etc etc and proper security doesn't allow them to carry anymore than necessary.

caseyann

Pace2008 wrote: »

On the other hand, you could posit that someone who's worked in the same job for that length of time, with relatively little incident, might be a little too in their comfort zone and may have become lax in certain areas of their duty.

All conjecture, obviously.

It is possible.

rubadub wrote: »

Well you didn't honestly expect her to spill her guts on how she actually f**ked up and didn't do her job did you?

We have no idea how loyal she was, and for how long. This quote spoke volumes to me.


If it was a young lad in his 20's I doubt he would get a fraction of the sympathy, esp. if it was a private security firm who said the same thing about "ongoing failure". To me it is a nice terminology to avoid any sort of defamation charge, sort of like rte news saying some scumbag shot in a pub was "known to gardai" -nudge nudge, wink wink, everybody knows what they really mean.

He would from me as they havent said where she failed,I remain unsure.

blueser

OutlawPete wrote: »

We know all that.

I worked in a 24 hour shop that also had that procedure.

But rural post offices are slightly different.

Bookies work on the same principal as sometimes you have to access cash (a big win, someone wants to withdraw their savings etc).

The timer was on the safe as she explains and they came in just as the safe was open.

In such circumstances, wouldn't the punter/customer be paid by cheque, or be told to call in the next day if they wanted their money in cash?

caseyann

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Lets not forget security measures have changed so much in 30 years. Huge difference in Post Offices these days than there was even 10 years ago. Spoke to one of the girls in the Post Office in my area earlier and they said if they were robbed today there is no way the thief would get anywhere near 80k. Time locked safes and drops by securicor etc etc and proper security doesn't allow them to carry anymore than necessary.

Digging info were you

mikemac

rubadub wrote: »

If it was a young lad in his 20's I doubt he would get a fraction of the sympathy, esp. if it was a private security firm who said the same thing about "ongoing failure".

I realy think that if this was in the OP, people would be thinking "inside job"
This thread reminds me of the case in Galway where the GAA store had cash from advance tickets sales.
Employee fecked off for lunch and didn't secure the premises. You bet people thought it was an inside job! It was most people's first reaction. Hmmm, robbed between 1pm and 2pm the same day the store was not locked up......

Burglary at Galway GAA office
THE GARDA is appealing for witnesses in the wake of a robbery at the GAA office in Aras na Gael in Dominick St last Thursday. A substantial undisclosed The Garda is appealing to contact Galway Garda Station at (091) 538000, or sum of money -- the anyone who was in the the Galway crime unit at proceeds for last Sunday's area at the time of the raid to come forward, (091) 538023. -- anything unusual which T h e raid took place could be pertinent to the investigation. between 1pm and 2pm on Witnesses are asked to Thursday July 10.

http://archive.advertiser.ie/pages/view.php?ref=73346&search=!collection1734&order_by=field51&sort=ASC&offset=0&archive=0&k=


Which wasn't the case in the situation anyway, just to point that out

tallaghtoutlaws

caseyann wrote: »

Digging info were you

Never know when one needs to rob withdraw cash from the post office.

OutlawPete

rubadub wrote: »

To me it is a nice terminology to avoid any sort of defamation charge, sort of like rte news saying some scumbag shot in a pub was "known to gardai" -nudge nudge, wink wink, everybody knows what they really mean.

If that's the case, then she should have been sacked before, why wait till there was a robbery if there was "ongoing failure to implement security measures" and it was her fault?

If that is the case then they are more to blame than her.

I have won money in Paddy Powers where I have had to come back in 15 minutes as they have set the timer on the safe to open.

If there was an armed robbery at that point, would the guy get sacked?

Sounds to me like they watched that place and knew she was opening it when they hit, I doubt it was a coincidence.

Biggins

blueser wrote: »

In such circumstances, wouldn't the punter/customer be paid by cheque, or be told to call in the next day if they wanted their money in cash?

Yes, if the place had officially adopted and was following professional procedures.

I have previously worked in places that literally had millions in cash. All of which I had access to.
I could only absolutely get access to the larger amounts between certain times. Anyone else coming along later or before (and seeking large amounts) was made aware of the current security procedure times and that they would have to return at the appropriate time.

Grumpypants

I was thinking why didnt she quickly knock the shot gun away from her head grab the guy from behind use him as a human shield when the guy with the hand gun at the door started shooting. Then point his arm at the other two blasting them with the shotgun. Then break the neck of the guy she had a hold of if he wasnt already dead. Then jump the counter grab the hand gun, take out the other guy waiting outside. Get his gun run down to the cop shop dual wielding hand guns to take out the guys sitting outside the police station.

But then i thought what would happen if she wasnt able to jump the counter run over to the door and get the hand gun before one of the guys outside came in and shot her.

caseyann

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Never know when one needs to rob withdraw cash from the post office.

So did this friend talk alot

Biggins

Grumpypants wrote: »

I was thinking why didnt she quickly knock the shot gun away from her head grab the guy from behind use him as a human shield when the guy with the hand gun at the door started shooting. Then point his arm at the other two blasting them with the shotgun. Then break the neck of the guy she had a hold of if he wasnt already dead. Then jump the counter grab the hand gun, take out the other guy waiting outside. Get his gun run down to the cop shop dual wielding hand guns to take out the guys sitting outside the police station.

But then i thought what would happen if she wasnt able to jump the counter run over to the door and get the hand gun before one of the guys outside came in and shot her.

Aaaa here... Jack Bauer hasn't had a sex change just yet!

tallaghtoutlaws

caseyann wrote: »

So did this friend talk alot

Can you drive fast? I may need a get away driver.:D

gogo

I work in a bank and would fully expect to lose my job if raiders managed to get away with 80k. Security procedures are there for a reason, and clearly they were not being followed. There is a tendency to forget that the post office is out about 70k due to this woman not being able to follow instructions.
God bless any one who's raided, I feel sorry for them and god knows what I do in a raid but at least I know the max I'd be able to hand over is the max I'd be allowed have out in my drawer.

I once made a hugh mistake in work, and gave out about 15 times what the customer needed, (not directly to customer, long story), the money was recovered, I followed all procedures, just counted wrong in a hurry, i never got the money double counted properly as is procedure,again in too much of a hurry. When I was called before the manager and area manager, I fully expected my walking papers, and would do so if I was there 30 years or 1 year. The only reason I still work there is because I was able to recover the money within the hour. But the mistake is still probably in my file, and it was nowhere near 80k. Where I work, security is all about covering your own ass.

outlawpete wrote:

I have won money in Paddy Powers where I have had to come back in 15 minutes as they have set the timer on the safe to open.

How much money, honey;)

Gummy Panda

Is she actually employed by An Post?

I thought Post Master/Mistress tendered for a contract to run the post office and weren't directly employed by An Post.

Kinda like a franchise.

Our man in Havana

She would be a contractor.

Ghost Train

There are certain things that seem a bit weird about the story. Would be intereting to know if the post office has a set limit to the amount that should be kept in a post office or is it just general guidelines they give the staff

€80,000 seems like a lot for a small post office but relative to other financial institutions its probably not excessive

The big issue I would have is the Post Office thinking the women should have to repay them the €80,000

The only way she should have to pay them €80,000 is if she robbed the place herself

gogo

Yeah, her contract has been terminated. But no contract, no job, boils down to the same thing. No other postal service offering contracts for her.

Our man in Havana

She would be paying out dole, pensions and childrens allowance payments. There could easily be that much in the safe.