An Post sacks post office worker after she was held at gunpoint

OutlawPete · 28-07-2010 06:24PM #1

Cheek of them.

The woman worked in the rural post office for 30years!

Naff all else she could have done.

A post office worker has had her contract terminated because An Post said she did not follow the correct security procedures during an armed robbery last year.

Bernie Moore has run the post office in Carrigans in Co Donegal for 30 years.

Last February, three armed raiders held-up the post office and got away with cash from the safe.

Ms Moore was held at gunpoint and was forced to hand over the cash from the safe.

An Post contacted Ms Moore after the raid and demanded that she pay them €80,000 and they told her they were terminating her contract.
In a statement today, An Post said: 'While we do not wish to comment on an individual case we can confirm that the issue in Carrigans involved ongoing failure to implement basic security arrangements.

'For this reason we terminated the contract of our Postmistress in Carrigans.

'These security measures are in place for the protection of post office staff and customers.

'Failing to implement these measures puts all post office staff and customers at risk.'

An Post has advertised for a replacement postmaster for the Carrigans area starting on 1 September, the day Ms Moore's contract ends.

Source

Where they right or wrong on this?

caseyann · 28-07-2010 06:25PM

What did she do hand over the money?

Our man in Havana · 28-07-2010 06:28PM

There is alot more to this than what is being reported in the media.

Gummy Panda · 28-07-2010 06:29PM

It depends on the rest of the facts. It could be she wasn't following proper security procedures e.g. too much cash on site.

Can't really say without all the facts

28-07-2010 06:30PM

Sounds a bit too simplistic to me

Methinks there may be more to this than what we are hearing

Bogger77 · 28-07-2010 06:31PM

it's not as simple as the "tear jerking" story lists

In post offices, there's rules to follow, such as making sure there's not an unwatched entrance, such as a back door left open, allowing people to bypass security screens and camera (happened in a PO in Offaly). Ensuring safes are kept locked, using time safe, ensuring camera's are working, pressing alarm buzzers, etc.

If the post mistress wasn't following these steps, or whatever her employers have requested, then yes, it's right to take the contract from her.
A soft touch where all security isn't implemented fully, puts everyone at risk, and increases costs for the rest of us.

karlog · 28-07-2010 06:31PM

What is the basic security measures that should have been taken?

Grab the shotgun under the counter and have a shootout i think.

Numina · 28-07-2010 06:32PM

caseyann wrote: »

What did she do hand over the money?

Did you even read the OP's post?

SoupyNorman · 28-07-2010 06:33PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Where they right or wrong on this?

It was the raiders money, they just didnt want to fill out the forms.

Biggins · 28-07-2010 06:33PM

I suspect that she was not following strict guidelines in regards to her own security and welfare of the property.
Obviously there was an investigation by the Gardi who made a copy of their investigation report to a number of folk, including the PO heads, an insurance company, etc.

While I have deep sympathy for the woman not just because she was serving the community for 30+ years, but she seems genuine and she didn't deserve such treatment by crooks, I would just like to point out that anything she was/wasn't doing right, might have provided the legal grounds to let her go.
As such by some actions/inactions that subsequently might have allowed her to be robbed more so, she voided her employment contract with them and they have used this reason let her go.

kylith · 28-07-2010 06:36PM

Poor woman, but if she wasn't following the rules she wasn't fulfilling her contract.

My money's on her not having the cash in a time locked safe.

mikom · 28-07-2010 06:39PM

"No, Father. It's my money. I just didn't want to fill out the forms. "

caseyann · 28-07-2010 06:40PM

Numina wrote: »

Did you even read the OP's post?

It was a joke hello!!!! Meaning did they sack her for handing over the money

Nothing would surprise me is what is to come from that comment.As they would rather you dead then the money lost.

There is not enough information to go by why they sacked her.

Kasabian · 28-07-2010 06:40PM

The whole episode seems to indicate that she hadn't followed strict security policies in accordance with An Post' guidelines.

fontanalis · 28-07-2010 06:40PM

Either way, NAMA will cost more than what was taken and no-one will get fired for that!

Kasabian · 28-07-2010 06:41PM

mikom wrote: »

"No, Father. It's my money. I just didn't want to fill out the forms. "

Soupy Norman pipped you

Biggins · 28-07-2010 06:42PM

caseyann wrote: »

...There is not enough information to go by why they sacked her.

Very true.
They wouldn't have sacked her without feeling sure however that they had reason and the legal grounds to do so.
As Haddockman said, there is more to this than meets the eye I too suspect.

SoupyNorman · 28-07-2010 06:42PM

I was held up at knife point while working in a video store one night...it was about 30mins before closing. I handed over the loot no question and no resistance, was over in seconds. However there was only about €40 in the till. We were trained to never have anymore then €150 in the till at any one time, it was in our training to constantly drop the surplus cash into the safe (which we had no access to other then to drop the loot in).

My manager told of at least 3 past cases where employees were sacked for not following this practice, 2 of which brought cases against the employer and lost.

Anita Blow · 28-07-2010 06:44PM

There needs to be a law similar to Godwin's law which deals with the inevitable NAMA/FF post in every thread

fontanalis · 28-07-2010 06:46PM

Anita Blow wrote: »

There needs to be a law similar to Godwin's law which deals with the inevitable NAMA/FF post in every thread

I can think of billions of reasons for not having a law.
No more insulting the gombeens in this thread from me.

DazMarz · 28-07-2010 06:50PM

As someone who works in a post office, I can say that I'm only sorry An Post aren't taking her to court.

Guns or no guns, no armed raiders should be able to get anywhere near €10,000 (never mind €100,000) in a post office if the security protocols that An Post employees are under contract to abide by are followed.

Between drop-safes, time locked safes, time locked cash drawers etc. that are standard in ALL post offices nowadays, there is simply no excuse for anything over what would normally be in the cash drawer at the counter (2 grand if the raider is very lucky).

This manager was obviously not following procedure and not doing her job, so An Post were 110% correct in throwing every book they could find at her.

My office was subjected to an armed raid not 2 months ago and thanks to An Post's excellent security measures... the raiders did not get a single penny and were forced to flee empty handed. The Gardaí were on-sight mere moments later, again thanks to the excellent alarms/panic-buttons provided by An Post.

Armed robbery is traumatic for anyone who suffers from it. But the fact remains that this woman provided incentive for future armed raiders of other offices by not following correct, standardised procedure. And any employer has the right to throw the book at an employee who does not do their job right, no matter what the situation and particularly if an employee's disregard for their job causes the employer to lose €100,000!

OutlawPete · 28-07-2010 07:21PM

Here's an interview with her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bNwgE97nQ

K-9 · 28-07-2010 07:23PM

Highland Radio » Carrigans Postmistress, Bernie Moore, speaks out about her ordeal

But Bernie says there was nothing she could of done the day of the robbery

Indeed.

Didn't seem to be doing too much the previous days either.

caseyann · 28-07-2010 07:29PM

Biggins wrote: »

Very true.
They wouldn't have sacked her without feeling sure however that they had reason and the legal grounds to do so.
As Haddockman said, there is more to this than meets the eye I too suspect.

It would be nice to hear what she did wrong so we could make proper judgement on it,Until then i feel sorry for her

OutlawPete wrote: »

Here's an interview with her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bNwgE97nQ

From what i can hear she couldnt have done anything so what did she do wrong?

Biggins · 28-07-2010 07:32PM

caseyann wrote: »

It would be nice to hear what she did wrong so we could make proper judgement on it,Until then i feel sorry for her
From what i can hear she couldnt have done anything so what did she do wrong?

Well if she has a case, she will be taking an unfair dismissal case or put in a claim herself for a breach of contract by the PO.
* I note however that she doesn't state that they breached their contract by letting her go!

If she has a case indeed I look forwards to hearing the details in court of this unusual case.

caseyann · 28-07-2010 07:34PM

Biggins wrote: »

Well if she has a case, she will be taking an unfair dismissal case or put in a claim herself for a breach of contract by the PO.
* I note however that she doesn't state that they breached their contract by letting her go!

If she has a case indeed I look forwards to hearing the details in court of this unusual case.

I know you would imagine someone who has worked for them for 30 years :eek: is that right? wouldn't make a mistake.

Could they not have demoted her or gave her a slap on wrist for 30 years of loyalty.lol

mikemac · 28-07-2010 07:36PM

She didn't follow procedures so losing her job, it's the correct thing to do. To have €80,000 in a safe is a joke

The criminals throughout Ireland will look at this and the gardai are probably expecting a lot of extra attempts at post offices over the next month.
Through her carelessness it's not a stretch to say she could indirectly put other staff and gardai at risk.

I've never worked in a post office but did in a hotel reception and we had drop safes for a reason.
If we exceeded a certain amount of cash and/or every two hours, money went to the drop safe.
Hold a gun to my head and I could not open that drop safe, the general manager and the duty manager are the only people for that.

Procedures are there for a reason and realy, this women could be in court but An Post won't do that

Biggins · 28-07-2010 07:39PM

caseyann wrote: »

I know you would imagine someone who has worked for them for 30 years :eek: is that right? wouldn't make a mistake.

Everyone's human and prone to slip up once in a while but if the PO was showed by Garda investigation report that she clearly did something that wasn't strict procedure, she might have given them reason for the sacking.

It should be noted that they have already advertised for a replacement.
This is important as it shows her sacking wasn't just a crafty way of perhaps getting one more regional post office to close, maybe on a cheaper route. No...
It was clearly an individual problem - not a post office building problem as such.

Hogzy · 28-07-2010 07:40PM

Absolutly shocked that this hasnt been mentioned yet. Just shows you what society is coming to but why was she allowed out of the kitchen in the first place?

OutlawPete · 28-07-2010 07:40PM

feelingstressed wrote: »

If we exceeded a certain amount of cash and/or every two hours, money went to the drop safe.

We know all that.

I worked in a 24 hour shop that also had that procedure.

But rural post offices are slightly different.

Bookies work on the same principal as sometimes you have to access cash (a big win, someone wants to withdraw their savings etc).

The timer was on the safe as she explains and they came in just as the safe was open.

caseyann · 28-07-2010 07:43PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

We know all that.

I worked in a 24 hour shop that also had that procedure.

But rural post offices are slightly different.

Bookies work on the same principal as sometimes you have to access cash (a big win, someone wants to withdraw their savings etc).

The timer was on the safe as she explains and they came in just as the safe was open.

I know i smell something not right,i could be wrong.But this story is lacking still

An Post sacks post office worker after she was held at gunpoint

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