Irish Government Conspiracy

namloc1980

Audiomad wrote: »

The people who took the loans, pausing it does not mean someone else has to cover the cost!

You clearly have no idea how bank's and credit works.

K-9

Audiomad wrote: »

The people who took the loans, pausing it does not mean someone else has to cover the cost!

How?

Audiomad

namloc1980 wrote: »

You clearly have no idea how bank's and credit works.

How?

Can answer both of these with one answer, a mutual interest of fixing the system with an idea of breaking even maybe even a loss instead of making a profit right away!

As stated in a previous post

The banks won't make a profit to start with they will get money back then they will be able to give loans to businesses that have paid off their loans with the added spending pausing the loans caused thus increasing the banks revenue and increasing the revenue in the business sector.

Then when the loans start getting paid back by the normal people of the country the banks will be making massive profits.

The banks at the moment are relying on home repossessions to survive and the Nama bail out.

Note when a home gets repoed the bank has no one to buy that property so they do not make any money from it, it would be more profitable to a bank not to take the homes off people.

K-9

Audiomad wrote: »

Can answer both of these with one answer, a mutual interest of fixing the system with an idea of breaking even maybe even a loss instead of making a profit right away!

As stated in a previous post



Note when a home gets repoed the bank has no one to buy that property so they do not make any money from it, it would be more profitable to a bank not to take the homes off people.

Banks do not repossess lightly here compared to say, the US or the UK.

Now all the above sounds nice. AIB currently need to sell assets in Poland, the US and the UK to raise capital. The regulator has advised this and they need it to meet the EU stress test. They could well need more Govt. funding even with that.

Are you still suggesting there should be a pause on loan repayments and nobody else will have to cover it? I'm thinking the Government in particular here.

PS. this spend, spend, spend policy got us into this mess. I'm not a fan of it getting us out.

Audiomad

K-9 wrote: »

Banks do not repossess lightly here compared to say, the US or the UK.

But they still do! Irish banks and the Government act just like the U.S. "Over selling loans and looking after Government interests first! over 100 American banks have closed this year alone because over selling of loans and trying to make a profit on interest on late payments.

Now all the above sounds nice. AIB currently need to sell assets in Poland, the US and the UK to raise capital. The regulator has advised this and they need it to meet the EU stress test. They could well need more Govt. funding even with that.

Which they will not be able to sell! not without making a loss!.

Are you still suggesting there should be a pause on loan repayments and nobody else will have to cover it? I'm thinking the Government in particular here.

Yes, you think they have to make a profit to survive, the fact is less money will have to be spent on saving banks because of it! we are only at the start of a deeper problem! we are not told of how much will have to be spent over the next few years just trying to pay bank debts.

PS. this spend, spend, spend policy got us into this mess. I'm not a fan of it getting us out.

Thats not all true, Over building of homes / apartments, over selling of loans, increasing taxes, decreasing wages all played a major role!

It is in fact no money is being spent that is causing problems, no one has money to buy houses and apartments which cause the property crash.

K-9

Audiomad wrote: »

Which they will not be able to sell! not without making a loss!.

So, the shortfall will have to come from?

The rest is more for the politics or economics section of the site.

PS. Income taxes actually decreased, not increased.

Audiomad

K-9 wrote: »

So, the shortfall will have to come from?

The banks will make a profit they just need to pause that too, staff will still get paid with the money that is being paid back on loans.

The rest is more for the politics or economics section of the site.

Not really, see people have now become modern day slaves, increased costs, lower wages, longer working times, increased retirement age.

Everything that is happening is making some one a profit because of the above.

It also gives the Government more control over peoples lives! Lower wages are still to come and will stay. All the companies that left Ireland left because its cheaper to hire people in China and Poland.

PS. Income taxes actually decreased, not increased.

In a time with no jobs! costs of living have also increased.

Scarab80

Audiomad wrote: »

The banks will make a profit they just need to pause that too, staff will still get paid with the money that is being paid back on loans.

All the banks made massive losses last year, anymore and they will be shutting down, taking your current account with them.

Audiomad wrote: »

In a time with no jobs! costs of living have also increased.

Cost of living has fallen.

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/prices/current/cpi.pdf

Audiomad

Scarab80 wrote: »

All the banks made massive losses last year, anymore and they will be shutting down, taking your current account with them.

Because no one has money to pay the bank loans and this goes back to my point on how to increase spending to increase loan paybacks.

Cost of living has fallen.

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/prices/current/cpi.pdf

The electricity costs are up, food cost are up "companies are even lowing the amount of food supplied in products to make savings which causes more to be bought to satisfy your hunger which in fact cost more to people.

Oil is also up, even the costs of traveling are up, health care and others! and they want to add more charges such as added water tax and tolls on more roads.

Scarab80

Audiomad wrote: »

Because no one has money to pay the bank loans and this goes back to my point on how to increase spending to increase loan paybacks.

Actually people do have the money, they are just putting it into savings now instead of spending it.

Audiomad wrote: »

The electricity costs are up, food cost are up "companies are even lowing the amount of food supplied in products to make savings which causes more to be bought to satisfy your hunger which in fact cost more to people.

Oil is also up, even the costs of traveling are up, health care and others! and they want to add more charges such as added water tax and tolls on more roads.

You got one right! The cost of health is up, the rest are down, some massively such as electricity. You obviously didn't read or couldn't understand the link I provided so i'll show it to you in a nice easy to understand graph.

Audiomad

Scarab80 wrote: »

Actually people do have the money, they are just putting it into savings now instead of spending it.

Yet 450,000 unemployed really think these people have money to save? €196 a week! people don't save money at least not in a bank because of fears they will take it on bills and be left with nothing.

Also that chart is in billions yet the banks owe billions does it add up!?

You got one right! The cost of health is up, the rest are down, some massively such as electricity. You obviously didn't read or couldn't understand the link I provided so i'll show it to you in a nice easy to understand graph.

When have you gone shopping last? I understood the chart which is flawed that chart can only be made up if you have a basic wage to judge on say €20,000 €10,000 in dole money for each parent say a family of 4 two parents 2 kids and neither parent work, after food, clothing, bills, travel and trying to at least spend a night out your not really left with much those are the true costs.

Food is up go to your super market see any price reductions I don't maybe a sale here and there.

Electricity is high may be down a few penny's on what are very high prices to start with!

Petrol is up.

Clothing no difference none that I have seen! shoes same cost!

House prices are down but who has the money to spend?

K-9

Audiomad wrote: »

The banks will make a profit they just need to pause that too, staff will still get paid with the money that is being paid back on loans.

Banks have to renew bonds in the coming months for finance, the figures are in the billions upon billions. If these same banks decide to give everybody a payment holiday, it will hardly go down well on the markets. That's the reality, whether you or me disagree with that, is irrelevant.

Audiomad wrote:

Not really, see people have now become modern day slaves, increased costs, lower wages, longer working times, increased retirement age.

Everything that is happening is making some one a profit because of the above.

It also gives the Government more control over peoples lives! Lower wages are still to come and will stay. All the companies that left Ireland left because its cheaper to hire people in China and Poland.

Well, therein lies the conspiracy!

Audiomad wrote:

In a time with no jobs! costs of living have also increased.

Sorry, I meant taxes reduced during the boom/bubble. They have gone up in the last 2 years.

Basically the Govt. and indeed Unions, encouraged the Govt. to reduce Income taxes during the bubble, so they could afford housing, cars etc.
We have high VAT rate, VRT and stamp duties so the Govt. got the taxes back and more, from spending.

Hence the double whammy of property collapsing and people not spending on other things. That is why I'm sceptical of spend, spend, spend ideas.

Audiomad

K-9 wrote: »

Banks have to renew bonds in the coming months for finance, the figures are in the billions upon billions. If these same banks decide to give everybody a payment holiday, it will hardly go down well on the markets. That's the reality, whether you or me disagree with that, is irrelevant.

I never said about giving away money.

Well, therein lies the conspiracy!

What part!?

Scarab80

Audiomad wrote: »

Yet 450,000 unemployed really think these people have money to save? €196 a week! people don't save money at least not in a bank because of fears they will take it on bills and be left with nothing.

Also that chart is in billions yet the banks owe billions does it add up!?

K-9 addressed this.

Audiomad wrote: »

When have you gone shopping last? I understood the chart which is flawed that chart can only be made up if you have a basic wage to judge on say €20,000 €10,000 in dole money for each parent say a family of 4 two parents 2 kids and neither parent work, after food, clothing, bills, travel and trying to at least spend a night out your not really left with much those are the true costs.

Food is up go to your super market see any price reductions I don't maybe a sale here and there.

Electricity is high may be down a few penny's on what are very high prices to start with!

Petrol is up.

Clothing no difference none that I have seen! shoes same cost!

House prices are down but who has the money to spend?

Went shopping yesterday, not cheap but cheaper than it used to be.

I really don't get what you are saying after that, it doesn't make any sense, are you saying that a family with 2 people on the dole don't have a lot of spare cash? They are not supposed to!

You said costs were rising, that was the point I was addressing. The CPI is a measurement of how costs change. Someone actually goes to various supermarkets and other grocery outlets every month and prices the same basket of goods, they then record the amount and produce that report.

They do the same with electricity, clothing etc etc. The fact that you haven't noticed the change means either you are not paying attention, you are shopping in the wrong place or you are lying to defend another one of your unsupported and incorrect assertions.

Audiomad

Scarab80 wrote: »

K-9 addressed this.
Went shopping yesterday, not cheap but cheaper than it used to be.

I really don't get what you are saying after that, it doesn't make any sense, are you saying that a family with 2 people on the dole don't have a lot of spare cash? They are not supposed to!

You said costs were rising, that was the point I was addressing. The CPI is a measurement of how costs change. Someone actually goes to various supermarkets and other grocery outlets every month and prices the same basket of goods, they then record the amount and produce that report.

They do the same with electricity, clothing etc etc. The fact that you haven't noticed the change means either you are not paying attention, you are shopping in the wrong place or you are lying to defend another one of your unsupported and incorrect assertions.

There are a few flaws in that chart, county to county each cost for the same products are different thats why cities are popular because more remote area's "towns etc." costs are higher where as in the city you can get deals and there is more competition.

The food point I was making is that they make the packets say rashers smaller without telling, you then buy that product at the same cost which in turn is rising the cost because you are receiving less of the product. This is being investigated in England because its being applied to a large range of products with less of a product should mean a cheaper price.

I was referring to the cost of living.

I understood the chart which is flawed that chart can only be made up if you have a basic wage to judge on say €20,000 €10,000 in dole money for each parent say a family of 4 two parents 2 kids and neither parent work, after food, clothing, bills, travel and trying to at least spend a night out your not really left with much those are the true costs.

One thing I noticed the chart does not show interest charges on loans.

K-9

Audiomad wrote: »

I never said about giving away money.




What part!?

Of course it is giving away money! The banks don't get the repayments and the customer keeps it, until everything picks up.

The problem is, how banks get funding in the markets. They need Billions upon Billions by the end of the year. It's a big worry, far bigger than Govt. raising finances.

Really, you need to read up on Irish banks and their finances requirements for the next 6 months to realise the enormity of the situation. I'm sure the Bnaks and Govt. would love to do what you are proposing, the reality is they can't!

Well the conspiracy is globalisation, capitalism, money markets, speculators, all that type of stuff.

Scarab80

Audiomad wrote: »

There are a few flaws in that chart, county to county each cost for the same products are different thats why cities are popular because more remote area's "towns etc." costs are higher where as in the city you can get deals and there is more competition.

The food point I was making is that they make the packets say rashers smaller without telling, you then buy that product at the same cost which in turn is rising the cost because you are receiving less of the product. This is being investigated in England because its being applied to a large range of products with less of a product should mean a cheaper price.

http://www.cso.ie/surveysandmethodologies/surveys/prices/documents/introductiontocpi.pdf

Each month approximately 200 specialist CSO pricers collect approximately 50,000 price quotations from shops, department stores, supermarkets, petrol stations, etc. in 86 cities, towns and villages throughout Ireland. Another 3,000 prices are collected directly on a monthly basis in postal surveys of major utilities such as electricity, gas and others such as doctors, transport companies, etc.

Each month approximately 48,000 to 49,000 prices are matched with prices from the previous month. The country is split into 5 areas for which area average prices are produced. These area average prices are then combined to give an overall weighted average price referred to as the National Average Price. The country is split into 5 ‘areas’ distinct town size categories. Area A covers Dublin Metropolitan Region, area B covers the 4 regional cities of Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford, area C covers towns throughout Ireland with a population greater than 10,000, area D covers town between 5,000 and 9,999 and area E cover towns with less than 5,000.

For each individual item a number of price quotes are collected. For example in September 2002 a total of 758 price quotes covering the five different varieties of beef were collected. 133 price quotes for a tin of beans were collected. In Food alone approximately 21,500 prices are collected on a monthly basis.

Pricers are given a broad specification such as a tin of baked beans. They are free, initially, to select a particular size of tin and brand so long as it is popular and available. They have to price the same item month after month. In this way the many different choices made by consumers relating to brand, size and point of purchase are reflected.

Audiomad wrote: »

One thing I noticed the chart does not show interest charges on loans.

The purchase of a house is an investment in a capital asset, purchased over a long period of time that usually appreciates in value. It does not form part of consumption. In 1997 the CSO released an information note looking at the issue of rising house prices and low inflation. House prices are excluded from the index. The CPI does however include the current costs of housing, such as mortgage interest costs. These costs reflect not only changes in interest rates but also the increasing size of the average mortgage. Measurement of the latter takes into account the trend in house prices and as a result these price trends are taken into account, indirectly, in the index.

SEPT 23 1989

I dont know why anything that FF has done to this country could be put in the conspiracy forum

Carra23

How the hell did this thread get to 12 pages. I feel like I've been robbed, 15 mins of my life gone reading this bullsh!t :mad:

Audiomad

I would not trust those charts if my life depended on them, they come from agencies that are Government funded, its just figures to give the impression all is ok when in fact its not the country is still to become a lot worse.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I dont know why anything that FF has done to this country could be put in the conspiracy forum

FF + FG both parties pretty much have the same polices, we get everything decreased so money can be spent else where. They and other world Governments are bringing in the same polices including lowering wages, increasing working times, increased retirement age "its pretty much says work till you die for little to nothing" we get taxed for global warming they make money from it, not long ago all countries around the world agreed to increase water tax at a summit in Mexico not including the fact we already pay water tax!

The Government control the media which helps them down play the size of protests which are being, push their policies and create fear as a way to make money "Global warming and fear of out-breaks"

They also bought a massive stock pile of Swine flu vaccinations which the W.H.O are under investigation because the flu was not as bad as they made out and the W.H.O leaders all have connections to the companies that make the Vaccination. "They did not test this them self's! just spent the countries money"

Lowering the job rate increases crime then more Police are needed on the street and then tougher measures "Armed Police already coming into force"

Cameras are every where and are being installed at an increased rate.
America is to bring in the under your skin microchip which can be used as a tracking device it will be the next craze here, Finger print scanners are being used in schools in England for kids to take out school books from the library and this will be implemented here, they are also bringing in thumb scanners in Poland so you can take out money scraping the normal bank card "This will become standard here"

"Steps towards martial law"

You will have no privacy! chipped like a dog and be tracked everywhere using finger scanners. The European Union also gave your bank details and every other European's bank details to the American Government in a so called way to stop terrorism "Your bank details, how much you spend, how much you take out of your bank, where you travel" tolls are already being rolled out here which can be used to track you "Cameras then finger scanners" and making sure you pay for it too!

Thank you Lisbon treaty which our Government called for!

The divide between rich and poor also increases using debt as a way to make this possible, you owe the bank more than your property is worth so you cant sell to pay it off, lower wages : impossible to have a family and pay it off, increased retirment age : work till you die, Longer working times : trying to pay your bills at lower wage and no doubt increased taxes makes big business lots and lots of money A MODERN DAY SLAVE