The magic "S"

Tackleberrywho

got an S put on my .308 today FOC

Also got my .308 ammo import in the post also FOC.

So

to DOJ and GS a big THANK YOU

Dusty87

Rub it in Bollix,
See ya tomorrow

johngalway

Nice one Tack, have my .223 license in to be reissued with it's S at the moment. S is on Pulse but not my license, didn't feel comfortable with that!

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

Nice one Tack, have my .223 license in to be reissued with it's S at the moment. S is on Pulse but not my license, didn't feel comfortable with that!

Mine was the same; I applied 2 weeks ago for it, had to get it re issued, that was Thurs gone and I got it yesterday!

Capt Blackadder

Hate to be ignorant lads, but what's an "S" in regards to a fire arms licence?

endasmail

permission to use a silencer/supressor/moderator

Capt Blackadder

Thanks for that.

Tackleberrywho

Capt Blackadder wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Sorry about that, for a long time it was such a grey area.

So now I have the .223 and .308 licensed to have Moderators/suppressors on now.

kay 9

johngalway wrote: »

Nice one Tack, have my .223 license in to be reissued with it's S at the moment. S is on Pulse but not my license, didn't feel comfortable with that!

Hey John, how did ya find out it was on pulse? Hmm... got to look into that myself, as I applied for a mod also and didn't get that feckin *S*:rolleyes: Can local station acknowledge it or do I have to go through the superman?

Tackleberrywho

kay 9 wrote: »

Hey John, how did ya find out it was on pulse? Hmm... got to look into that myself, as I applied for a mod also and didn't get that feckin *S*:rolleyes: Can local station acknowledge it or do I have to go through the superman?

Yes
Local can verify, she was able to tell me S was on PULSE, I'm going to laminate this one just to be sure

All the others are fading/type disapearing

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Sorry about that, for a long time it was such a grey area.

So now I have the .223 and .308 licensed to have Moderators/suppressors on now.

Welcome to the club :P

what sub .223 are you using if you dont mine me askin ?

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Welcome to the club :P

what sub .223 are you using if you dont mine me askin ?

I have an ASE Ultra on the .223 and a reflex on the .308

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I have an ASE Ultra on the .223 and a reflex on the .308

Sorry i ment subsonic ammo. I cant get reliable sub .223 as its not designet to be subsonic and cycle an action at the same time

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Sorry i ment subsonic ammo. I cant get reliable sub .223 as its not designet to be subsonic and cycle an action at the same time

I do not use subsonic ammo as it is restricted in centrefire!

I only Moderate sound so I don't deafen the whole place. The whip craic does not bother me
All I want is to be able to shoot in comfort without a deafening boom

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I do not use subsonic ammo as it is restricted in centrefire!

Please quote the legislation that supports that......

Ive been running Sub sonic in my 9mm for a long time now .. and no hassle gettin it or usin it

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Please quote the legislation that supports that......

Ive been running Sub sonic in my 9mm for a long time now .. and no hassle gettin it or usin it

Where is sparks when you need him!

johngalway

kay 9 wrote: »

Hey John, how did ya find out it was on pulse? Hmm... got to look into that myself, as I applied for a mod also and didn't get that feckin *S*:rolleyes: Can local station acknowledge it or do I have to go through the superman?

My local Garda is at a substation, no computer. He told me he would check when he got back to the main station. Rang me later in the week to tell me I was approved for a mod according to Pulse system.

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Please quote the legislation that supports that......

Ive been running Sub sonic in my 9mm for a long time now .. and no hassle gettin it or usin it

5. The following ammunition is declared to be restricted ammunition for the
purposes of the Act:
(a) ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles and
projectiles for such ammunition;
(b) slug ammunition for shotguns;
(c) accelerator or sabot ammunition;
(d) grenades, bombs and other similar missiles, whether capable or not
capable of being used with a firearm, including explosive military
missiles and launchers;
(e) ammunition for short firearms, except ammunition for any of those
mentioned in subparagraph (2)(a) or (2)(e) of paragraph 4;
(f) any other ammunition designed or manufactured for use exclusively in
a restricted firearm;
(g) ammunition for a prohibited weapon.

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Please quote the legislation that supports that......

Ive been running Sub sonic in my 9mm for a long time now .. and no hassle gettin it or usin it

5. The following ammunition is declared to be restricted ammunition for the
purposes of the Act:
(a) ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles and
projectiles for such ammunition;
(b) slug ammunition for shotguns;
(c) accelerator or sabot ammunition;
(d) grenades, bombs and other similar missiles, whether capable or not
capable of being used with a firearm, including explosive military
missiles and launchers;
(e) ammunition for short firearms, except ammunition for any of those
mentioned in subparagraph (2)(a) or (2)(e) of paragraph 4;
(f) any other ammunition designed or manufactured for use exclusively in
a restricted firearm;
(g) ammunition for a prohibited weapon.

It's either f or section G

*Sparks to confirm*

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Where is sparks when you need him!

If its a case that the messed up law says you cant (1 part saying you can and another saying you cant)

I always go with the can part

But runnni a suppressor without propper ammo it like puttin normal unleaded into a race car.... itll run .. but not to its intended proformance.

Suppressors with subsonic ammo reduce my .308 by about 30 db.... so its still loud

IMO its a waste of money to buy a suppressor and not use the proper ammo through it

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

5. The following ammunition is declared to be restricted ammunition for the
purposes of the Act:
(a) ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles and
projectiles for such ammunition;
(b) slug ammunition for shotguns;
(c) accelerator or sabot ammunition;
(d) grenades, bombs and other similar missiles, whether capable or not
capable of being used with a firearm, including explosive military
missiles and launchers;
(e) ammunition for short firearms, except ammunition for any of those
mentioned in subparagraph (2)(a) or (2)(e) of paragraph 4;
(f) any other ammunition designed or manufactured for use exclusively in
a restricted firearm;
(g) ammunition for a prohibited weapon.

It's either f or section G

*Sparks to confirm*

Awwwww ... i feel a debate coming out here !

So depending on what way you look at it lets say to start .338 lapua......is anybody with a resticted B/A (ie above .308) not able to buy ammo... or have to get a seperate licence because the ammo is restricted.... ??

because that a load of balls !!!

Rew

Speaking of reprints, has anyone lost a licence and had to get it replaced, whats the procedure/cost?

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

If its a case that the messed up law says you cant (1 part saying you can and another saying you cant)

I always go with the can part

But runnni a suppressor without propper ammo it like puttin normal unleaded into a race car.... itll run .. but not to its intended proformance.

Suppressors with subsonic ammo reduce my .308 by about 30 db.... so its still loud

IMO its a waste of money to buy a suppressor and not use the proper ammo through it

the supressor cuts down on energy from round as is, why use would I as a Hunter want to lose any more power, The .223 has shot bunnies out to nearly 400 yards head shots, the .308 is for deer.

So low velocity ammo not for me.

To the best of my knowledge subsonic in centrefire rifles is restricted.

I play within the rules set down. my 40 cal is prob subsonic with most ammo, however pistols are Generally regarded as low velocity anyway in regards to ammo

bunny shooter

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

....Ive been running Sub sonic in my 9mm for a long time now....

Why?

Tackleberrywho

Rew wrote: »

Speaking of reprints, has anyone lost a licence and had to get it replaced, whats the procedure/cost?

Free,conttact yer local FO

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

5. The following ammunition is declared to be restricted ammunition for the
purposes of the Act:
(a) ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles and
projectiles for such ammunition;
(b) slug ammunition for shotguns;
(c) accelerator or sabot ammunition;
(d) grenades, bombs and other similar missiles, whether capable or not
capable of being used with a firearm, including explosive military
missiles and launchers;
(e) ammunition for short firearms, except ammunition for any of those
mentioned in subparagraph (2)(a) or (2)(e) of paragraph 4;
(f) any other ammunition designed or manufactured for use exclusively in
a restricted firearm;
(g) ammunition for a prohibited weapon.

It's either f or section G

*Sparks to confirm*

What in the name of all that's holy are you on about???

If your firearm is restricted, then generally speaking so is the ammunition, but since you have a licence for it, then you have a licence for the ammunition. Otherwise what use is the firearm?

You appear to have both a .308 and a .223, both are not restricted unless they are semi-automatic. Regardless of whether they are semi or not, the ammo is most definitely unrestricted because the calibres themselves are.

The speed of the ammunition has no bearing on whether it's restricted or not.

Prohibited ammunition is prohibited :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

What in the name of all that's holy are you on about???

If your firearm is restricted, then generally speaking so is the ammunition, but since you have a licence for it, then you have a licence for the ammunition. Otherwise what use is the firearm?

You appear to have both a .308 and a .223, both are not restricted unless they are semi-automatic. Regardless of whether they are semi or not, the ammo is most definitely unrestricted because the calibres themselves are.

The speed of the ammunition has no bearing on whether it's restricted or not.

Prohibited ammunition is prohibited :rolleyes:

A Moderator is restricted on a centrefire.
Both have mods on so both are restricted.

Twas sparkie who started the whole subsonic centrefire restricted bit, do a search of threads on here; it's here somewhere

skipz

Sorry lads for butting in, but would i need a "s" on my licence for my air rifle? I bought a silencer in the uk for my pcp and iam wondering would it be illegal now because iv no "s"?

johngalway

skipz wrote: »

Sorry lads for butting in, but would i need a "s" on my licence for my air rifle? I bought a silencer in the uk for my pcp and iam wondering would it be illegal now because iv no "s"?

Yes, you'll need an S.

gunhappy_ie

the supressor cuts down on energy from round as is, why use would I as a Hunter want to lose any more power, The .223 has shot bunnies out to nearly 400 yards head shots, the .308 is for deer.

So low velocity ammo not for me.

To the best of my knowledge subsonic in centrefire rifles is restricted.

I play within the rules set down. my 40 cal is prob subsonic with most ammo, however pistols are Generally regarded as low velocity anyway in regards to ammo[/QUOTE]

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

the supressor cuts down on energy from round

You could have bought suitable ammo without havin the expence/ordeal in gettin the "S" on your licence

It also severly reduces range because of the drop in velocity of the round fined.

I would have thought low velocity ammo would be better for you as generally subsonic ammo there has a very heavy head... eg.... for my 9mm i have to use 147grn anything less and the suppressor is ineffective. by the way im not implying that i or any1 should hunt with a handgun im just using it as an example.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge subsonic in centrefire rifles is restricted.

You arent making sence at all and you obviously havent even thougth about what your saying or what Section F of the law implys.

Subsonic most certainly restricted isnt as far as im concerned and if it was since I have a licence for a restricted (4 actually) firearm then i believe Im entitled to have such ammo

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I play within the rules set down

I believe you play safe... its very hard to play by the rules as 1 rule says x... while another says y.... perfect example.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055975986


Any yes your right .40 cal and in particular .45 cal ammo is produced as subsonic normally as the weight and shape of the round do not allow it to travel supersonic... but it can still be bought here !

Tackleberrywho

skipz wrote: »

Sorry lads for butting in, but would i need a "s" on my licence for my air rifle? I bought a silencer in the uk for my pcp and iam wondering would it be illegal now because iv no "s"?

To the best of my knowledge on an air rifle it's ok, again sparks to confirm.

Air rifle are not my passion so I am not certain, I think the main deal is with centrefire rifles.

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

the supressor cuts down on energy from round as is, why use would I as a Hunter want to lose any more power, The .223 has shot bunnies out to nearly 400 yards head shots, the .308 is for deer.

So low velocity ammo not for me.

To the best of my knowledge subsonic in centrefire rifles is restricted.

I play within the rules set down. my 40 cal is prob subsonic with most ammo, however pistols are Generally regarded as low velocity anyway in regards to ammo

You could have bought suitable ammo without havin the expence/ordeal in gettin the "S" on your licence

It also severly reduces range because of the drop in velocity of the round fined.

I would have thought low velocity ammo would be better for you as generally subsonic ammo there has a very heavy head... eg.... for my 9mm i have to use 147grn anything less and the suppressor is ineffective. by the way im not implying that i or any1 should hunt with a handgun im just using it as an example.



You arent making sence at all and you obviously havent even thougth about what your saying or what Section F of the law implys.

Subsonic most certainly restricted isnt as far as im concerned and if it was since I have a licence for a restricted (4 actually) firearm then i believe Im entitled to have such ammo




I believe you play safe... its very hard to play by the rules as 1 rule says x... while another says y.... perfect example.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055975986


Any yes your right .40 cal and in particular .45 cal ammo is produced as subsonic normally as the weight and shape of the round do not allow it to travel supersonic... but it can still be bought here ![/QUOTE]

I really wish i could find Sparks quote on sub sonic ammo. i think it was in regards to a .308 but not sure.

I've to go now; meeting up with a mate to bash bunnies.
However I will make a few phone calls to a few mates in the know and see if I can get it in writing the why and why not's.

In regards to not making sense, It does not make sense to me either; But Hey I'm no legal eagle.

Laws were made by solicitors barristers, rarely by shooters

Back to my earlier post

SPARKS WHERE ARE YOU lol

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

A Moderator is restricted on a centrefire.
Both have mods on so both are restricted.

No they are not as of SI337/2009. Even if they were (which they were up to August 2009), it would have no bearing on the muzzle velocity of the ammunition. As I already said, a non-restricted calibre means non-restricted ammunition, the only impact having a restricted action or other attachment that would be deemed restricted would be in the process you would go through to get a licence. In other words you'd have to apply to your Chief Super rather than your Super.

Twas sparkie who started the whole subsonic centrefire restricted bit, do a search of threads on here; it's here somewhere

I think you should do the search, because I've never read anything by Sparks saying that.

It's complete nonsense from beginning to end.

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge on an air rifle it's ok, again sparks to confirm.

Air rifle are not my passion so I am not certain, I think the main deal is with centrefire rifles.

A silencer for a firearm requires a licence. An air rifle is a firearm so a silencer for it requires a licence.

Though I could never understand why you'd need a silencer for something that goes psssfffttt

skipz

rrpc wrote: »

A silencer for a firearm requires a licence. An air rifle is a firearm so a silencer for it requires a licence.

Though I could never understand why you'd need a silencer for something that goes psssfffttt

It makes quite the difference. Without the silencer its like popping a large ballon, quite loud, and thats not good when hunting at 35yards!:eek:

It wasn't me!

Centrefire moderators are not restricted.

Subsonic ammunition of any variety is not restricted.

Now, the first part has been said dozens of times since the law was changed, and several of those were directed at you as I recall. The second part is in your imagination, and the paragraph you quoted quite plainly has exactly nothing to do with it.

Cass

I have to ask this, and as it was brought up on this thread i'll ask it here.

Why would anyone use subsonic ammo in a centrefire rifle espeially a .308 or some similarly large caliber. Subsonic is running at 1150fps max. With a 100yd zero you are looking at 2 feet drop at 200, 7 at 300, 16 at 400 and 28 at 500. Now they are some very rough figures using a 110 gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1150 and a BC of about 0.380 - 0.450. Thats p**s poor.

Not to mention the impact energy is 323ft/lb at the muzzle with it dropping to 180 or less at 500yds. Might be good enough to kill a sick rabbit, but definitely not deer legal and in no way even slightly useful for target work.

Answers on a post(card)

rrpc

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Centrefire moderators are not restricted.

Subsonic ammunition of any variety is not restricted.

Not quite true. Subsonic ammo for anything over .308 would be restricted as it is for use exclusively in a restricted firearm.

But no ammo would be restricted because it's subsonic.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

I have to ask this, and as it was brought up on this thread i'll ask it here.

Why would anyone use subsonic ammo in a centrefire rifle espeially a .308 or some similarly large caliber. Subsonic is running at 1150fps max. With a 100yd zero you are looking at 2 feet drop at 200, 7 at 300, 16 at 400 and 28 at 500. Now they are some very rough figures using a 110 gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1150 and a BC of about 0.380 - 0.450. Thats p**s poor.

Not to mention the impact energy is 323ft/lb at the muzzle with it dropping to 180 or less at 500yds. Might be good enough to kill a sick rabbit, but definitely not deer legal and in no way even slightly useful for target work.

Answers on a post(card)

If you wanted to shoot at short ranges without the need for massive energy (for example shooting rabbits) you could quite conceivably use a subsonic round.

The lads who shoot gallery centrefire also require slower ammo (albeit in pistol calibres) for the shorter range matches. I can't remember the specific rules for gallery centrefire, but AFAIK they require calibres above .30" which could also include rifle calibres with lighter loads.

Cass

Forgot about Gallery rifle. Nothing over 2150fps/1496ft/lb energy and no "downloaded" full bore rifle ammo.

Other than that i cannot see the use of subsonic ammo or to be more specific from a target or hunting perspective in a full rifle setup. Personal view.

It wasn't me!

rrpc wrote: »

Not quite true. Subsonic ammo for anything over .308 would be restricted as it is for use exclusively in a restricted firearm.

But no ammo would be restricted because it's subsonic.

Pedantic, but correct. I should of course have qualified that.

gunhappy_ie

PROBLEM SOLVED.......

FROM THE HORSES MOUTH IE THE DOJ.....

Just off the phone from firearms section in the DOJ (sorry i cant remember the womans name but as always i find the DOJ pleasent and very heplfull to deal with no matter how much i annoy them with questions... so thank you)

If you have a licence for a firearm then you can purchase ANY type of ammuntion for that firearm subsonic or not. Where the restricted part comes into play is that certain ammuntion can only be sold by a restricted dealer.

If you saw subsonic .223/.308/.338 ammo anywhere in europe and wanted to import it provised you have a licence for such a calibre you may do so (within the restrictions of your licence ie 100 rounds at a time or get a dealer to bulk import it for you and you buy as you need it.)

Before some smart arse points out .................

Ammunition in catagorys A-G.....

If a dealer or private individual imports ammuntion it has to be cleared from by the DOJ.

Cat A,B,C,D,E and G would all need a very F'in valid reason as to why it would be needed..... but it is not prohibited ! ( there is another law that does prohibit certain types of ammo mainly ammo that delivers noxous gas.)

Cat F ammo which concerns us is the routine cat that all dealers/individuals use for everyday imports.

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

PROBLEM SOLVED.......

FROM THE HORSES MOUTH IE THE DOJ.....

Just off the phone from firearms section in the DOJ (sorry i cant remember the womans name but as always i find the DOJ pleasent and very heplfull to deal with no matter how much i annoy them with questions... so thank you)

If you have a licence for a firearm then you can purchase ANY type of ammuntion for that firearm subsonic or not. Where the restricted part comes into play is that certain ammuntion can only be sold by a restricted dealer.

If you saw subsonic .223/.308/.338 ammo anywhere in europe and wanted to import it provised you have a licence for such a calibre you may do so (within the restrictions of your licence ie 100 rounds at a time or get a dealer to bulk import it for you and you buy as you need it.)

Before some smart arse points out .................

Ammunition in catagorys A-G.....

If a dealer or private individual imports ammuntion it has to be cleared from by the DOJ.

Cat A,B,C,D,E and G would all need a very F'in valid reason as to why it would be needed..... but it is not prohibited ! ( there is another law that does prohibit certain types of ammo mainly ammo that delivers noxous gas.)

Cat F ammo which concerns us is the routine cat that all dealers/individuals use for everyday imports.

Thanks for that gunhappy.

Some others on here mainly like to heckle.
I'm glad that has been cleared up.

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Thanks for that gunhappy.

Some others on here mainly like to heckle.
I'm glad that has been cleared up.

So now it returns to what i was origionally saying though....

You are using a suppressor with supersonic ammo where the properly selected ammo would work just as well with out the cost/hassle of getting a suppressor.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Centrefire moderators are not restricted.

Subsonic ammunition of any variety is not restricted.

Now, the first part has been said dozens of times since the law was changed, and several of those were directed at you as I recall. The second part is in your imagination, and the paragraph you quoted quite plainly has exactly nothing to do with it.

maybe it was my imagination, Hard to be right all the time IWM :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

If you wanted to shoot at short ranges without the need for massive energy (for example shooting rabbits) you could quite conceivably use a subsonic round.

The lads who shoot gallery centrefire also require slower ammo (albeit in pistol calibres) for the shorter range matches. I can't remember the specific rules for gallery centrefire, but AFAIK they require calibres above .30" which could also include rifle calibres with lighter loads.

Subsonic .223 would have very limited effective range on foxes. perhaps ok on bunnies but hold over would totally defeat the point of a .223 in the first place

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Subsonic .223 would have very limited effective range on foxes. perhaps ok on bunnies but hold over would totally defeat the point of a .223 in the first place

That's why scopes and sights have windage and elevation adjustments :rolleyes:

If all you have is a .223 and want to shoot short range, subsonic would be fine.

Adjusting your sights is hardly a massive undertaking.

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

............Some others on here mainly like to heckle.

:eek: unreal :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

............I'm glad that has been cleared up.

You actually started the confusion with your incorrect statements and makeyuppy stuff :rolleyes:

rrpc

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Thanks for that gunhappy.

Some others on here mainly like to heckle.
I'm glad that has been cleared up.

It was cleared up over 20 posts ago, you just refused to accept the fact. I suspect this discussion would have meandered on for another 10 pages like the one about the swift except gunhappy_ie got a quote from the DOJ that you couldn't argue against.

It's unreal how black you'll insist white is :rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

:eek: unreal :rolleyes:



You actually started the confusion with your incorrect statements and makeyuppy stuff :rolleyes:

Ah bunny, I thought we were friends now.

If I misquoted the bible I am sorry.:eek: Hard to be correct all the time.

On a lighter note ; popped a few grey crows out wit Dusty87 today.
The mod worked well with Hornady!

Any word on your magic "s"?

Tackleberrywho

rrpc wrote: »

It was cleared up over 20 posts ago, you just refused to accept the fact. I suspect this discussion would have meandered on for another 10 pages like the one about the swift except gunhappy_ie got a quote from the DOJ that you couldn't argue against.

It's unreal how black you'll insist white is :rolleyes:

A RRPC, no need for meanders; you know I was right about the swift as no one ever proved me wrong in black and white :p:p:p:p:p:p