Soon to need a prescription for Nurofen/Solphadine/etc?

Kintarō Hattori

Well this is a pile of poo. I've never taken painkillers unless I needed too. What the f*ck do you do if you get a severe headache, pains in the evening or late at night.

I remember years ago waking up in the middle of the night with severe f*cking chest pains. I couldn't sleep as the pain was awful. So I got up walked down to the local shop and bought nurofen. A few hours later I got back to sleep, made an appointment to see the doctor and it turned out to be stress.

What the f*ck are people supposed to do in a situation like that............. bare with the pain until they can see a doctor? It's a joke. You can't buy alcohol after 10pm, you can't buy painkillers without a prescription. What the hell is next? What are women supposed to do when they have a period? I know sometimes my other half would curl over with the pain if she didn't take a painkiller or two at the height of it.

This place is getting rediculous.

xzanti

Motherfcukers..

Is this just in Ireland? If so it's just going to drive more people up the North to spend their money.. Same with the St. John's Wart, gripe water for babies, Nytol.. etc etc.. so sick of being nannied..

Fcuking ridiculous.. :mad:

God, that's so so weird.. I only heard of St. Johns Wart for the first time 5 mins ago and still have the tab open. Then you post it.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=9591


Weird.

Wibbs

Funny enough even with my last post I do agree we're being excessively nannied alright. The thing is too many Irish people seem to like it. To many seem to like being told what to do. "Ah shure dey're de experts" etc. We've a long history of it too. I defo agree with St. John's Wart. Yes it can cause some adverse drug reactions but they're very specific ones. It made no sense to take it off the market when it showed to be very effective for low level depression. Some german studies found it more effective than SSRI's and Even better it has far less side effects than the usual stuff like SSRI's fired at people for the same condition. That was madness IMHO.

Bolag_the_2nd

I have the hangover from hell.......
Plink Plink dissolve
Solphadine all the way

Wibbs

Bolag_the_2nd wrote: »

I have the hangover from hell.......
Plink Plink dissolve
Solphadine all the way

So you think taking 1000mg of a known liver toxin to cure a hangover where your liver is already stressed from the alcohol is anything like a good plan? Taking 1000mg when you have a headache etc but your liver is not in stress is grand, but with a hangover?

yogy

Wibbs wrote: »

So you think taking 1000mg of a known liver toxin to cure a hangover where your liver is already stressed from the alcohol is anything like a good plan? Taking 1000mg when you have a headache etc but your liver is not in stress is grand, but with a hangover?

It's only toxic in overdose ffs. And to irreparably **** your liver up you would need to take in excess of 100 pills in one sitting...Don't believe the hype.

ORLY?

Wibbs wrote: »

Given that paracetemol is the number one cause of acute liver failure out there I dunno about that. No such issue with aspirin overdose. Even more daft when you consider people look to paracetemol (and solpadiene which also contains a load of paracetemol)for hangovers. When your liver's already taken a bashing. Talk about unwise. Recipe for long term disaster I'd reckon.

I'd also leave aspirin in the mainstream as it can save lives in the case of heart attack. Yes it has issues with intestinal bleeding and as it thins the blood not a good bet to stay on it outside of medical supervison, but objectively far more people die from paracetemol than do from aspirin(except in children where it should never be used)

Far more people die from intentional abuse of paracetemol. Aspirin does far more unintentional damage. To kill yourself with paracetemol one has to take a ridiculously high dose, even to do damage they have to take quite a high dose (about 3 times the recommended daily max in one go I think). Obviously all the doses needed are lowered if there's alcohol in the system.

Aspirin even if not abused can actually send you into kidney failure. Especially in the old, or in those who undergo a long period of stress while on it or dehydration. Then there is the risk of ulcers and gastric bleeds.

On the point about heart attacks, obviously anyone with cardiac history will be on cardiac doses of aspirin on prescription. What of those with no history? Imagine the paramedics are called out to someone with chest pain and the advanced paramedic has his little bag of drugs.

Is it a heart attack, gastric reflux, an aortic dissection etc...?

Aspirin is good if it's a heart attack, not the best if it's reflux, a really bad idea if it's a dissection. The paramedic is trained to be abe to figure out which and act accordingly.

Then in old people quite often a heart attack could be without pain and look exactly like an asthma attack, aspirin can in some people exacerbate asthma, also old people may have gastric bleeds that they're not aware because they're generally not as good at sensing pain.

ORLY?

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Well this is a pile of poo. I've never taken painkillers unless I needed too. What the f*ck do you do if you get a severe headache, pains in the evening or late at night.

I remember years ago waking up in the middle of the night with severe f*cking chest pains. I couldn't sleep as the pain was awful. So I got up walked down to the local shop and bought nurofen. A few hours later I got back to sleep, made an appointment to see the doctor and it turned out to be stress.

What the f*ck are people supposed to do in a situation like that............. bare with the pain until they can see a doctor? It's a joke. You can't buy alcohol after 10pm, you can't buy painkillers without a prescription. What the hell is next? What are women supposed to do when they have a period? I know sometimes my other half would curl over with the pain if she didn't take a painkiller or two at the height of it.

This place is getting rediculous.

Paracetemol is really good for headaches. Anyone having a severe chest pain should be calling an ambulance not taking a pain killer.

Anyway, as already explained, these meds are not going to be prescription.

Kintarō Hattori

ORLY? wrote: »

Paracetemol is really good for headaches. Anyone having a severe chest pain should be calling an ambulance not taking a pain killer.

Anyway, as already explained, these meds are not going to be prescription.

Scary sh*t as you can imagine which is why I went to the doctor. Turns out I was suffering from 'supressed stress' and nothing more. With that advice I try not to let things bother me as much and 'touch wood' to this date never had it since.

Wibbs

yogy wrote: »

It's only toxic in overdose ffs. And to irreparably **** your liver up you would need to take in excess of 100 pills in one sitting...Don't believe the hype.

Eh not quite. Clearly you're not up to speed with what a toxic dose is and you're certainly not up to speed with what a usually lethal dose is. From the wiki on the subject "A toxic dose of paracetamol usually varies between 4 g in special populations and 6 g in the average person. The lethal dose is usually between 10 g and 15 g, though concurrent alcohol intake will lower that figure significantly." 20 - 25 tablets is a lethal dose if not caught early, not 100 or anything like it.* OK so toxic dose at 6g? The average tablet is 500mg(solpadeine the same). Most will chug two at a time. That's 1 gram right there. Bad hangover and you might chug another dose or two through the day. 3 g in a post drinking binge day wouldnt be too mad. Now add in the above bit in inverted commas. I'm simply saying that chugging paracetamol products on top of an already compromised liver is hardly the brightest thing to do. If you're doing this kinda thing for two nights a week after a session(which would not be considered too crazy in Ireland), or you're doing it every other day after half a bottle of wine in the evenings(equally considered not too mad. The amount of women especially I know who do this is surprising) then you will be causing undue and extra stress to the liver. Obviously if you only have a major binge a few times a year, its not an issue, but if you're anyway regular in your drinking, its something to consider. One compound on its own may be bad enough depending on dosage and frequency, both together is not the sharpest.




*If you ever do know someone that has taken a lethal dose, no matter what they tell you about feeling OK get them to a hospital. It doesnt kill you quick. You could take a lethal dose and then thinking better on it decide you dont want to die. Problem is you'll probably feel fine. For a while at least. In the background your liver is dying. Leave it too long, even a couple of hours and either permanent liver damage will result or you'll die.

yogy

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh not quite. Clearly you're not up to speed with what a toxic dose is and you're certainly not up to speed with what a usually lethal dose is. From the wiki on the subject "A toxic dose of .

'nuff said...

Wibbs

Ah right that old chestnut of dismissing a wiki link, ok maybe these will help you?

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/820200-overview

http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/chart.html

http://www.biotopics.co.uk/newgcse/drugpacksizeregs.html

paracetamol is a great drug with many benefits and no mistake, but like all drugs, care and education of possible risks involved are no bad thing.

bleg

It's roughly 28 tablets that you need to OD on paracetamol.

ORLY?

bleg wrote: »

It's roughly 28 tablets that you need to OD on paracetamol.

Yep, that would bring you up to around 3x the max daily dose I think, maybe just a little over.
Is this the level of initial toxicity to the liver? Are higher doses generally needed for fulminant liver failure? Assuming we're talking about a healthy individual who isn't consuming lots of alcohol.

Just consulted with Drs. Rang and Dale and they say that this can be a fatal dose.

Wibbs

Not according to resources Ive read about(or on the web). Apparently 4 to 6 grams taken at once are enough to have a measurable effect depending on the health of the individual. 10grams + runs the very real risk of severe liver toxicity. Again dependent on the individuals health and that of their liver. Ethanol abuse/poisoning makes a difference though.


I only read about this stuff when I knew someone way back in the day who tried to off himself with 20 tabs and two quadruple vodka chasers.

ORLY?

ballsymchugh wrote: »

agreed, although it sounds like you had pharmacology lectures in UCC!!

Nope, I have a feeling that opinions on OTC meds are becoming the same everywhere though.

bleg

ORLY? wrote: »

Yep, that would bring you up to around 3x the max daily dose I think, maybe just a little over.
Is this the level of initial toxicity to the liver? Are higher doses generally needed for fulminant liver failure? Assuming we're talking about a healthy individual who isn't consuming lots of alcohol.

Just consulted with Drs. Rang and Dale and they say that this can be a fatal dose.

Not too sure to be honest. Going back to my 2nd year poisoning lectures here. 28 tabs can definitely be lethal for a normal patient though.

mardybumbum

ORLY? wrote: »

Yep, that would bring you up to around 3x the max daily dose I think, maybe just a little over.
Is this the level of initial toxicity to the liver? Are higher doses generally needed for fulminant liver failure? Assuming we're talking about a healthy individual who isn't consuming lots of alcohol.

Just consulted with Drs. Rang and Dale and they say that this can be a fatal dose.

Not according to resources Ive read about(or on the web). Apparently 4 to 6 grams taken at once are enough to have a measurable effect depending on the health of the individual. 10grams + runs the very real risk of severe liver toxicity. Again dependent on the individuals health and that of their liver. Ethanol abuse/poisoning makes a difference though.

Not too sure to be honest. Going back to my 2nd year poisoning lectures here. 28 tabs can definitely be lethal for a normal patient though.

Pharmacogenetics people, PHARMACOGENETICS. :pac:
Who would have thought I could learn something in AH.

ORLY?

Wibbs wrote: »

Not according to resources Ive read about(or on the web). Apparently 4 to 6 grams taken at once are enough to have a measurable effect depending on the health of the individual. 10grams + runs the very real risk of severe liver toxicity. Again dependent on the individuals health and that of their liver. Ethanol abuse/poisoning makes a difference though.


I only read about this stuff when I knew someone way back in the day who tried to off himself with 20 tabs and two quadruple vodka chasers.

It depends on what people are defining a toxic dose as. 4-6 grams at once may have a measurable effect, e.g. changes in liver enzymes, but assuming the person is healthy and not an alcoholic or have alcohol in their system when they take it, it probably wouldn't cause irreparable liver damage. The toxic dose in the pharmacology books of 10-15g (the recommended daily max is 4g, there are 6g in a pack) is the dose associated with more serious damage. So 28 tabs is 14g - in the toxic range, obviously the exact levels needed for damage will vary from study to study. 20 tabs is 10 grams, throw in the vodka and there is no doubt that it is seriously dangerous.

Bottom line is that the doses on the pack shouldn't be exceeded and paracetemol shouldn't generally be taken while drinking alcohol or while alcohol is still in the system or even for a good while after alcohol consumption has stopped or when people have known liver problems.

Also, as mardybumbum is alluding to, the systems of enzymes in the liver that handle various substances vary GREATLY from person to person.

deelite

Will I have to travel to Newry now to get a hangover cure?????

candy-gal1

Aw! Solpadeine FTW

bleg

deelite wrote: »

Will I have to travel to Newry now to get a hangover cure?????

No, you'll go into your pharmacy and see your pharmacist if you want OTC codeine.

deelite

bleg wrote: »

No, you'll go into your pharmacy and see your pharmacist if you want OTC codeine.

Just thinking of that conversation with the pharmacist....."How many hangovers can you have in one week?" -

Das Kitty

Someone should change the thread title to be accurate.

I was talking to a pharmacist this morning and they said that the change to them not being on display is a lot to do with addicts shoplifting them. An other reason is to make people aware that it is an addictive drug.

Herbal Deity

Wibbs wrote: »

So you think taking 1000mg of a known liver toxin to cure a hangover where your liver is already stressed from the alcohol is anything like a good plan? Taking 1000mg when you have a headache etc but your liver is not in stress is grand, but with a hangover?

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml#extraction tbh.

Thaedydal wrote: »

FFS this will effect uniflu as well, it's the only think which gets me through a rotten head cold.

In fairness feminax has so much codeine ect in it it can make you feel loopy.
http://www.feminax.co.uk/range/feminax-capsules.htm
You may no longer feel the cramps and pain but you can't ****ing think at all.

I hope this doesn't cost more than Solpadeine, because it appears to be the exact same thing.

And 8mg is fcuk all codeine.

vodafoneproblem

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

What a pharmacist said to me recently was that you could only get a 3 day supply of codeine-based products from August and THEN you'd need a prescription.

penguin88 wrote: »

Codeine-containing analgesics are indicated for short-term use, i.e. 3 days. If the problem still persists after three days of taking the medicine then it's recommended to consult a doctor. Perhaps this was what they were trying to say.

All the relevant information is here. in particular the "Guidance" section.

Well, I honestly don't know, and this thread has confused the issue a bit compared to what she said to me. Maybe different pharmacists are interpreting it differently? She definitely said to me you'd need a prescription after an initial 3 day supply, though, so that seems to be her interpretation.

Kurtosis

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Well, I honestly don't know, and this thread has confused the issue a bit compared to what she said to me. Maybe different pharmacists are interpreting it differently? She definitely said to me you'd need a prescription after an initial 3 day supply, though, so that seems to be her interpretation.

You're right, it is about interpretation. The guidelines that have been published are the requirement, but that does not mean individual pharmacies cannot impose further policies. So while a prescription is not legally required for greater than 3 days supply, it's perfectly acceptable (and sensible) for a pharmacist to only supply greater than 3 days worth after a patient has sought medical advice.

ORLY? wrote: »

First, they're not going to be prescription.

Now, to be unpopular.

They should be prescription. I personally think every pain killing drug from aspirin up should be prescription. This would leave paracetemol.

I have to say I disagree with you on this. Sure, codeine-containing products were too easily available and now they are being restricted. Whether these guidelines will make any difference remains to be seen. But putting aspirin and ibuprofen seems a bit mad.

There are a number of fairly routine things that they are both used for and you want everyone who needs them for such purposes to pop down to their GP? People who gargle with aspirin for a sore throat or people who take ibuprofen for a toothache to tide them over until their dental appointment. The only thing this would do would be to clog up doctors' surgeries with even more people who should not be there. And at a time when we're trying to shift people to lower levels of the health service (from secondary care into primary care and from primary care into self care).

yogy

At the end of the day the only actual change will be that these products are no longer on display...

If the PSI think that a pharmacist in a busy pharmacy (prescription wise) has the time to personally interview every patient who asks for a pack of solpadeine then they are kidding themselves..

yogy

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Well, I honestly don't know, and this thread has confused the issue a bit compared to what she said to me. Maybe different pharmacists are interpreting it differently? She definitely said to me you'd need a prescription after an initial 3 day supply, though, so that seems to be her interpretation.

She's talking bollix I'm afraid. What's stopping you from simply going into a different pharmacy to buy another pack after your "3 day supply" is gone? The other pharmacy have no idea of your history.