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ONLINE TRADING (INCLUDING SPREAD) ACCOUNTS - All Queries Here Please

  • 08-07-2010 8:42am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 17,663 ✭✭✭✭ Cyrus


    Having dabbled on and off with spread trading over the past few years i now intend on taking it up more seriously. i am an accountant and work in finance and presumed, wrongly, that trading would be relatively easy for me. i quikcly understood that i wasnt and could see the mistakes i was making, so before i lost any money i couldnt afford to lose i took a step back with a view to educating myself.

    i have an ig index account and understand the basics of how it works.

    I had seen adverts for wolgang.ie and am contemplating trying their evening course in september, altho i am open to self teaching.

    Has anyone got any good tips on where i should start?

    i have started to read Trading in the Zone (Douglas) and Trend following (Covey), what other books are highly recommended

    how much time a day should one give to trading, is it possible to do in a smaller way alongside a conventional 9-5 job

    What kind of profit % should a good strategy give on your capital

    What is the best way to start off? use 100 euro as a test bank and see what % gains you make off of it?

    any other advice gratefully received.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭✭✭ Chrysostomos


    I had seen adverts for wolgang.ie and am contemplating trying their evening course in september, altho i am open to self teaching.

    Never do those terrible courses, ask yourself if these guys are so good then why are they not trading and are teaching instead. Nobody will sell the goose that lays the golden eggs, they might sell you the eggs alright but never the goose.

    Has anyone got any good tips on where i should start?

    Read everything even remotely related to trading and the markets, develop a voracious appetite for reading the stuff.

    how much time a day should one give to trading, is it possible to do in a smaller way alongside a conventional 9-5 job

    I will actively trade from 6am this morning to 12 tonight and do that five days a week. Yes it's possible to do on a smaller timescale along with a nine to five job, trading the higher timescales at the end of the day.

    What kind of profit % should a good strategy give on your capital

    Depends, 3% a month, 12% a week, 5% a day. It's really bad to look in terms of %gain a month. Expectancy and drawdown are more important figures to be looking at.

    What is the best way to start off? use 100 euro as a test bank and see what % gains you make off of it?

    Educate yourself about the markets, then develop a system, backtest that system if you can but forward test it with a small amount of real money, then after four or five months you can make a decision as to whether invest serious money in it.

    Chryso
    ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,663 ✭✭✭✭ Cyrus


    I had seen adverts for wolgang.ie and am contemplating trying their evening course in september, altho i am open to self teaching.

    Never do those terrible courses, ask yourself if these guys are so good then why are they not trading and are teaching instead. Nobody will sell the goose that lays the golden eggs, they might sell you the eggs alright but never the goose.

    ,[/B]

    ive searched boards and that seems to be the general consensus, but has anyone actually attended the course? surely there are benefits for beginners to get an understanding into what areas they should be focusing on?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,011 Tugboats


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Having dabbled on and off with spread trading over the past few years i now intend on taking it up more seriously. i am an accountant and work in finance and presumed, wrongly, that trading would be relatively easy for me. i quikcly understood that i wasnt and could see the mistakes i was making, so before i lost any money i couldnt afford to lose i took a step back with a view to educating myself.

    i have an ig index account and understand the basics of how it works.

    I had seen adverts for wolgang.ie and am contemplating trying their evening course in september, altho i am open to self teaching.

    Has anyone got any good tips on where i should start?

    i have started to read Trading in the Zone (Douglas) and Trend following (Covey), what other books are highly recommended

    how much time a day should one give to trading, is it possible to do in a smaller way alongside a conventional 9-5 job

    What kind of profit % should a good strategy give on your capital

    What is the best way to start off? use 100 euro as a test bank and see what % gains you make off of it?

    any other advice gratefully received.

    Instead of giving wolfgang 1 or 2k educate yourself and then put that 1 or 2k into an account. Id also avoid day trading, shorter time frames and stick to eod especially starting off


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 mickman


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Having dabbled on and off with spread trading over the past few years i now intend on taking it up more seriously. i am an accountant and work in finance and presumed, wrongly, that trading would be relatively easy for me. i quikcly understood that i wasnt and could see the mistakes i was making, so before i lost any money i couldnt afford to lose i took a step back with a view to educating myself.

    i have an ig index account and understand the basics of how it works.

    I had seen adverts for wolgang.ie and am contemplating trying their evening course in september, altho i am open to self teaching.

    Has anyone got any good tips on where i should start?

    i have started to read Trading in the Zone (Douglas) and Trend following (Covey), what other books are highly recommended

    how much time a day should one give to trading, is it possible to do in a smaller way alongside a conventional 9-5 job

    What kind of profit % should a good strategy give on your capital

    What is the best way to start off? use 100 euro as a test bank and see what % gains you make off of it?

    any other advice gratefully received.

    100 euro? dont waste your time

    i have been learning / spread trading for about 4 yrs now. i have tried every strategy (using stops, not using stops, breakouts, day trading, the whole lot)

    the only one i find works for me is longer term trading based on a strict set of very simple rules. dont listen to cnbc, bloomberg, advice from anyone, use your rules and always follow them. i only have one rule on when to enter the market and one to exit (followed up by some simple sub rules on when / if to take profits)

    read reminisces of a stock operator, and both of the market wizards book and above all keep it SIMPLE


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ Bullish


    +1 for Mickman
    Dont listen to News CNBC or any other.
    Dont listen to analysts ( well if you do just do the opposite of what they recomend)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭ Dubh Geannain


    +2 for Mickman.

    I intend opening a spread trading account myself too and his philosophy is quite close to what I'd be planning on following.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ixus


    Lets keep it to this sticky.


  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭ wclarke20


    Hi,
    does anybody have any opinions on what the best stock analysis is out there?
    i had a few recomendations for Sharescope but was just wondering what others thought?

    thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭ Berti Vogts


    Has anyone any experience of transferring an existing portfolio from Davy to TD Waterhouse? Just wondering whether they charge fees to do so?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,481 Fremen


    Does anyone have experience dealing with interactive brokers?
    It's really not clear from their website what their fee structure is.

    Any idea how you go about paying tax on your profits or what happens to your dividends?

    Is it designed solely for day traders, or it it suitable for someone like me who would invest a lump sum followed by regular small payments (probably buying and holding on a few different ETFs).

    Cheers for the help.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 927 turbobaby


    You sound like you could do with TDWaterhouse.ie

    Simple to set up (except for a quick visit to your bank for them to stamp some docs), easy to transfer money in (a bank transfer to their Ulster Bank account) and 20euro per trade. No quarterly fees if you keep you balance above a certain figure (€10k I think!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭ strmin


    I've been with Interactive Brokers for two years. Not a single problem so far.
    Seems like you can trade anything but ISEQ . It is very cheap.
    Not sure what you mean by "designed solely for day traders". IB suits any investor.

    Taxes is your responsibility and it has nothing to do with a broker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭ Dinarius


    Hi Guys,

    I'm coming back to this after an asbence of about 6 years.

    Back then, spread betting firms didn't exist (I think I'm right in saying) so I used to trade over the phone with Fexco.

    Now I'd like to trade online and in both directions (long and short) but not with a regular broker.

    Who are the recommended Irish spread betting firms? marketspeads? deltaindex? paddypower? igindex? cmcmarkets?

    Technical analysis is my main interest, so a firm offering good charting facilites would be a bonus - though I'll be using Metastock anyway.

    Thanks.

    D.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,943 D-Generate


    IG Index and CMC Markets would be in my opinion the best. The interface with Paddy Power looks too amateurish for my liking.

    Definitely do the reading yourself rather than paying money for others to teach you. The books I would consider reading are;

    Reminisces of a Stock Operator
    Market Wizards
    The New Market Wizards
    Random Walk Down Wall St.

    The last book heavily argues against frequent trading and theorises that buy and hold leads to greater investments. None the less it has good ideas in it and can at least point out some of the pitfalls other investors have.

    To summarise key points from the 3 books.
    "Sit tight and be right" - Reminisces of a Stock Operator
    - If you have a winner and it is indeed still going your way then don't be content with just taking your winnings, stay with it. It is all too easy for emotions to get the better of you and for you to just take your quick profit.

    "Losers Average Losers" - Market Wizards
    - You will often come across people who if they are long of a position and it goes against them will increase their position even more, thus averaging out their loss or they might still see it as a bargain. In a lot of instances (majority in my opinion) its just throughing good money after bad. What you will see less of is when their position is in their favour people increasing their position. As such I agree with their statement that losers average losers and winners average winners. Also despite what some people say, there is no such thing as a paper loss.

    Just remember though, I think it is only 1 in 5 of people involved with Spread Betting actually make a profit. From talking to my friend that works in IG Index it seems even less. As far as I understand, the reason its not taxed is because so many people lose they could use their losses as tax deductables and there would be lost revenue to the exchequer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 mickman


    D-Generate wrote: »
    IG Index and CMC Markets would be in my opinion the best. The interface with Paddy Power looks too amateurish for my liking.

    Definitely do the reading yourself rather than paying money for others to teach you. The books I would consider reading are;

    Reminisces of a Stock Operator
    Market Wizards
    The New Market Wizards
    Random Walk Down Wall St.

    The last book heavily argues against frequent trading and theorises that buy and hold leads to greater investments. None the less it has good ideas in it and can at least point out some of the pitfalls other investors have.

    To summarise key points from the 3 books.
    "Sit tight and be right" - Reminisces of a Stock Operator
    - If you have a winner and it is indeed still going your way then don't be content with just taking your winnings, stay with it. It is all too easy for emotions to get the better of you and for you to just take your quick profit.

    "Losers Average Losers" - Market Wizards
    - You will often come across people who if they are long of a position and it goes against them will increase their position even more, thus averaging out their loss or they might still see it as a bargain. In a lot of instances (majority in my opinion) its just throughing good money after bad. What you will see less of is when their position is in their favour people increasing their position. As such I agree with their statement that losers average losers and winners average winners. Also despite what some people say, there is no such thing as a paper loss.

    Just remember though, I think it is only 1 in 5 of people involved with Spread Betting actually make a profit. From talking to my friend that works in IG Index it seems even less. As far as I understand, the reason its not taxed is because so many people lose they could use their losses as tax deductables and there would be lost revenue to the exchequer.

    the reason most people lose is the same reason most people lose at gambling. no discipline. when you give your money to a fund mgr to manage it you cant personally close the positions, you can when you spread bet so emotions take over and you make the wrong decisions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,481 Fremen


    turbobaby wrote: »
    You sound like you could do with TDWaterhouse.ie

    Simple to set up (except for a quick visit to your bank for them to stamp some docs), easy to transfer money in (a bank transfer to their Ulster Bank account) and 20euro per trade. No quarterly fees if you keep you balance above a certain figure (€10k I think!)

    Twenty euro's a little steep, isn't it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 927 turbobaby


    It's all relative I suppose. If you're buying thousands of euros worth of shares in once of transactions then no, but if you're only buying small amounts on a regular basis, yes the 20 euros would add up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭ Dinarius


    Alexander Elder's "Trading for a Living" is also worth a read, particularly if you trade using technical analysis.

    Thanks for the feedback on the online trading sites.

    D.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭✭✭ robmchl


    Hi Cyrus,

    In my oppinion:

    Stick with the trend as much as humanly possible. It can always go higher or lower and rarely has it gone "too far". (Great start with trend following book)

    If you do play reversals, make sure your target is lower than that of a with trend entry and always make sure these are taken at major support or resistance areas or suppport becoming resistance/ resistance becoming support areas.

    Have a definite set-up that marks your entry into the market be it technical or otherwise.

    Check for any major news announcement before entering your trade - taking a position on gbpusd 1 minute before mervyn king makes an announcement wouldn't be favourable.

    100 euro wouldn't be enough to start but a thousand would if you can trade a very small size which IG will allow you do for 6 weeks +.

    If you get up around 6:00 you could have 1 hour support/resistance prep etc. done before the frankfurt & london opens and trade them. Don't stay too long at the screen, maybe 3 hours maximum but make sure that time is fully focussed on trading and nothing else.

    I'll post a quick chart as to what I believe has been the biggest factor in my trading success and it is the technical phenomenon of resistance becoming Support & Support becoming resistance.I wish someone told me about it at the very start.

    If you are trading stocks on fundamentals or otherwise, i apologise as a lot of that may not be relevant or helpful.

    Best of luck with it. I hope it goes well for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭ Dinarius


    robmchl,

    Interesting post. Thanks. Look forward to seeing the chart.

    My version of Metastock is 6.52. I see from their website that they're now up to version 11.0! Hopefully, end-of-day data will be compatible with my older version.

    And speaking of EOD, can anyone point me to a free source of it? A quick Google pointed me to Yahoo Finance....

    http://finance.yahoo.com/

    ....where data back to 1970 is available, apparently. But, while I can see data on any individual stock/index, I can't see any link to a zip download of the lot. i.e. complete FTSE, Dow etc, including all stocks, for say the last 20 years. Does one exist? If not, any recommendations on EOD that I can access, preferably for free!

    Thanks.

    D.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭✭✭ robmchl


    Hi Dinarius,

    The chart should be attached at the bottom of my post (.png) If not I can post again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭ Dinarius


    Silly me! So it is.

    Thanks.

    D.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ delux


    Does anyone have experience dealing with interactive brokers?
    It's really not clear from their website what their fee structure is.

    Any idea how you go about paying tax on your profits or what happens to your dividends?

    Is it designed solely for day traders, or it it suitable for someone like me who would invest a lump sum followed by regular small payments (probably buying and holding on a few different ETFs).
    IB is designed for frequent traders. This is how they have low commissions - it's the simple high volume, low price business model. (whereas the Irish brokers are high price, low volume) And to keep customers to this model they put in some measures namely you need >$10,000 to open the account and they charge $10 a month even if you do nothing. That's pretty much it. To buy a few shares and hold them go to some other broker i'd say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ delux


    Any idea how you go about paying tax on your profits or what happens to your dividends?
    For capital gains tax it's up to you to declare this yourself. For dividends, i haven't got any in my IB account cos i only use it for daytrading, but in my Etrade account(and i presume it's the same in IB) they put the dividends in your brokerage account and take the 15% withholding tax. Then you declare this as income over here, but you should only have to pay the balance i.e. [your income tax rate]-15%.
    And bear in mind i am no tax expert, I just declare what I think i owe and let them decide what the bill is... it's worked so far for me in so far as I've never had a problem with the revenue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭ D.W


    Looking for peoples recommendations/experiences for Forex brokers that have a Meta4 platform and are reliable, liquid and honest (if theres such a trait). Ideally want an ECN so no market makers. Currently looking at a few but they all seem to have a vested interest in taking you out by any means. Any recommendations from personal experience appreciated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭ rugbyman


    I have read ,but largely ignored threads abouts spread betting over the last few years.
    I am fully aware that you can lose heavily.

    for the last few weeks i have been gahering interest and though I have read world preads and IG ( i think) sites ,i am not entirely certain of how things work.

    This weekend I want to place a bet on AIB rising on monday morning.

    If anyone could answer these simple questions( their simplicity may mm well suggest i should not be here, )

    A. can i open a real(not demo ) account over the weekend.?

    B. how do i put money in? ,via my credit card?

    C. I believe each company has an IMR, some sort of ratio , strong companies have high IMR? I think this means that I have to have a multiple of what I intend to gain, so as to cover potential losses?

    D. If this were to work and i would gain , where would my gain come from, from a losing wager ? hardly likely to be many backing AIB to fall this week. Does the agent e.g world spreads have to match me with a contra gambler?

    E is there a charge to let the bet run overnight, I have read that there are longer periods without fees.

    F. one day last week the Bof I fell seven percent or so in the USA, next morning it did the same here but recovered by lunch time.

    G the news re AIB is fairly big re the sale in poland and I know that many will say that this has already been factored in to the share price. However I feel that there will be a rise on Monday and i want to gamble with around 500/1000 of my dosh.




    right folks , any info would be appreciated

    Regards ,Rugbyman


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 mickman


    rugbyman

    to be honest your questions are that of a person who isnt ready to trade the markets.

    a. yes but you cant open positions for obvious reasons. you can create an order that will only be filled monday morning at the opening price

    b . laser card etc

    c. dont understand question

    d. if you go long then someone else will go short. there is always someone

    e. yes if you take on positions on ones that roll over daily, not in ones that expire later

    f. whats the question here?

    g. no question here?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 mickman


    you seem to think that you can open a position before the markets open on monday and take advantage of any price rise :-0

    if that was allowed wouldnt we all be doing it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭ rugbyman


    Hello Mickman

    Thank you for taking the trouble to answer my query in detail.

    re my comment /question on IMR //ratio, I will read up a little and come back to you.

    you mentioned to someone earlier that 100 euro is no use to start with.
    what I want to know is how much of a stake/tank/float I need to fund this proposed bet on AIB so that I might make a few hundred euro profit if the rise that I anticipate on monday is to be of the order of say, six cents,from the closing price of 74 pence on friday.

    If I sign up with ,say,IG toay and place a bet for execution on Monday morning , will it go through promptly at 8 am, having been processed by a machine or does it need to be monitored by a human being in IG.

    Thanks again, Rugbyman


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  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭ wclarke20


    rugbyman wrote: »
    Hello Mickman

    Thank you for taking the trouble to answer my query in detail.

    re my comment /question on IMR //ratio, I will read up a little and come back to you.

    you mentioned to someone earlier that 100 euro is no use to start with.
    what I want to know is how much of a stake/tank/float I need to fund this proposed bet on AIB so that I might make a few hundred euro profit if the rise that I anticipate on monday is to be of the order of say, six cents,from the closing price of 74 pence on friday.

    If I sign up with ,say,IG toay and place a bet for execution on Monday morning , will it go through promptly at 8 am, having been processed by a machine or does it need to be monitored by a human being in IG.

    Thanks again, Rugbyman



    To open a live account, you will need to send them ID and some documents such as utility bills. I doubt you will have it set up for 8am Monday morning unless they are open Sunday.


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