RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

swoofer

say how you are splitting the saorsat signal ie switch used, then say how you are setting the diseq bit, a and b. for both boxes

Apogee

jkk1 wrote: »

Astra 28.2 is fed in port 2 on 3 diseqcs, 1 saorsat feed is fed direct from KA lnb to port 2 on 1 of the diseqcs, the other saorsat feed is split and then fed to port 2 on the 2 remaining diseqc swithes.

I presume this is a mistake and you meant that 28.2 is fed to Port 1 on the 3x Diseqcs?

jkk1 wrote: »

I have tried different combinations of diseqc far from dish, near dish, half way. The same thing happens, change from one satellite to the other on one box and the box sharing the split KA signal with it freezes on saorsat.

Does this problem only occur with the boxes which are working off the split Ka-feed? Or does it also occur between the box fed by the single Ka-feed and the others?

If the former, then it looks like the Diseqc signal from the 1st box is "leaking" through the first Diseqc switch and being transmitted to the second diseqc switch, causing it to switch and resulting in a loss of the Saorsat signal.

zg3409

JKII what type of splitter are you using?

Can you link to exact make and model?

Has it two arrows on it?

Is it like this?



The glitching should not happen. I would need to test the system to confirm what exactly is wrong but I have very good ideas.

The KA LNB gets 13V (vertical/Left hand circular) sent from either box to power up the LNB and also to select the correct polarisation.

If either box selects horizontal (18V) for even a fraction of a second then the other box on the line will lose the signal. This seems to be what is happening. Basically the box that has just switched sats, seems to br providing 18V to the Saorsat LNB for a fraction of a second. This causes all boxes connected to the same leg of the Saorsat LNB to lose signal.

As for a solution, well if you force the LNB to remain on 13V vertical, no matter what either box sends, then the problem should go away (unless it is a DiSEqC bleedback problem see below) If it was me what I would try, is to power the LNB from a seperate power source, and see if the problem goes away.

Personally I would buy one of these:
http://cpcireland.farnell.com/_/a1330/line-power-inserter/dp/SE00411

connect the top to the KA LNB (HF+DC)
Connect the side to a 13V regulated power supply (IN)
Connect the bottom to the splitter (HF)

This would supply power independantly to the Saorsat LNB thus stopping either receiver from sending 18V to it.

If you don't have a suitable power supply you could test by using a third receiver (set to any channel that is vertical and low) and feed that in to the power input instead of a power supply. Just for testing this would prove if a seperate power supply would fix the problem.

If the problem is DiSEqC feedback, which is might be, this could be solved by using a satellite splitter that blocks DC, and again use the power supply inserter suggested above. (Basically a satellite splitter with no power passing ability). As DiSEqC needs power to talk removing the power stops DiSEqC signals from one receiver talking (beeding back) to the other receiver. If you can't find such a splitter you could open up one and remove the diodes.

Why this happens? Well I suspect if it is not diseqc feedback, then the receivers software is probably programmed wrong. When switching channels it should:

1) Send a DiSEqC command to select the correct port
2) THEN change the voltage and tone settings for the new channel.

It may be that the receiver is doing this the wrong way around.

Also I would normally recommend putting 28.2 on the first port of the DiSEqC switch, and Saorsat on the second. This should make no difference, but in this case it might.

I use a proper multiswitch so this problem would be hidden to me. If I had access to two approved boxes I could do tests (I am in Dublin)

If needed I could make up some sort of a thing that should definitely solve the problem. Ideally everyone should try use off the shelf parts to solve this.

Again please tell us the exact model of splitter (a photo would be best)

zg3409

As Apogee says,

set up a test

Box 1 connected to DiSEqC and splitter to Saorsat and 28.2 LNB

Box 2 connected to DiSEqC and splitter to Saorsat and 28.2 LNB
Set box 2 to RTE via Saorsat

You say when box one switches from RTE Saorsat to BBC, box 2 goes funny for 5 seconds.

Now bypass the DiSEqC on box 2. Just connect it to the Saorsat LNB by the splitter. It should still show RTE. What happens now when box 1 changes from BBC to RTE? With the DiSEqC switch gone from box 2 does the problem not happen?

bypass the DiSEqC switch

watty

Diseqc switches are not a good solution for more than one tuner input.

Multiswitches are easier to add another tuner.

jkk1

Thanks for all feedback.
The receivers used are
http://www.soundstore.ie/Product/Walker-WP95SATHD-HD-Free-To-Air-Satellite-with-Saorsat/3404/2220.2.2

I will add some more photo's/links to the other equipment used
for now I will try to clarify some more.
I have used some different brands of splitters, including triax, it has DC pass on both legs and frequency 5 to 2400Hz.

Apogee wrote: »

I presume this is a mistake and you meant that 28.2 is fed to Port 1 on the 3x Diseqcs?

I have used port 1 for saorsat, is there a reason why this would not work as well as putting saorsat on port 2?
The problem occurs with the boxes on the split saorsat signal only.

Also, I have ran 1 box straight back to the split KA lnb and the other through diseqc to 28.2 feed and split KA , the box fed straight to splitter is still affected by changing satellite on the other box!

The box having a programme problem makes sense to me, changing the voltage and tone setting first and then send a DiSEqC command to select the correct port. I should be able to test this by switching from a vertical 28.2 channel to saorsat and vice versa, then the voltage is always 13V?
these set ups are in customers houses so i may not get to check this for a time.

Thanks again

Stinicker

I installed Saorsat for myself using a 1metre dish yesterday and my signal is at 68% - 69% on my Technomate 6900HD, I am wondering if this could be improved or is it as good as I could get?

I used a Horizon HD-S2 and had the signal at 10.2dBi. I'm not sure if this is good or not as when I aligned it before to 9east using a KU-LNB and swapped it for the KA I was only managing 64 - 65%. I guess the real big test is rain and wind as the arm shakes quite a bit in the wind.

zg3409

jkk1 wrote: »

Also, I have ran 1 box straight back to the split KA lnb and the other through diseqc to 28.2 feed and split KA , the box fed straight to splitter is still affected by changing satellite on the other box!

That suggests a software fault which might be fixed by a firmware update, assuming that is really the fault and that they would be willing to issue an update. We could put pressure on Saorview who approved the box to get it fixed.

Either way, as I said, supplying 13V seperately to the LNB from a power supply or spare receiver (for testing) will probably cure the problem.

You could also try another make of receiver. This might solve the problem too. I possibly could test the scenario of two other model receivers, as I have two receivers with DiSEqC.

Duster

I have recently installed a Ross Freesat HD reciever - does anyone know if I should be able to pick up RTE 1 & 2 on it ?

Peter Rhea

Ross don't make proper Freesat receivers. It's just a generic FTA (free-to-air) box, but should be capable of Saorsat reception.

You also need the right dish & lnb setup: you won't get Saorsat with a dish that's solely set up for UK channels.

zg3409

Duster wrote: »

I have recently installed a Ross Freesat HD reciever - does anyone know if I should be able to pick up RTE 1 & 2 on it ?

If you are in Republic of Ireland the recommendation is to use an aerial (not a dish) for reception of the Irish channels. Please start a new thread in terrestrial and we can advise on Saorview instead of Saorsat.

Duster

zg3409 wrote: »

If you are in Republic of Ireland the recommendation is to use an aerial (not a dish) for reception of the Irish channels. Please start a new thread in terrestrial and we can advise on Saorview instead of Saorsat.

I would have put up an aerial if i was in an area which could also pick up the UK freeview channels (which I am not) hence why i went the freesat route.

I was just wondering if the reciever I have could be programmed manually to pick up the Irish Stations, except from tv 3 which i know is not on freesat.

Duster

Duster wrote: »

I would have put up an aerial if i was in an area which could also pick up the UK freeview channels (which I am not) hence why i went the freesat route.

I was just wondering if the reciever I have could be programmed manually to pick up the Irish Stations, except from tv 3 which i know is not on freesat.

You can get the RTE channels and TG4 from Saorsat but you need a second LNB and DiSEqC switch. You won't get them from the same satellite as the UK channels.

Duster

Karsini wrote: »

You can get the RTE channels and TG4 from Saorsat but you need a second LNB and DiSEqC switch. You won't get them from the same satellite as the UK channels.

thanks Karsisi, looks like i will have to do without. Its a single lnb and I am not putting up a 2nd dish just to get the rte1 and 2.

jjf1974

Duster wrote: »

I would have put up an aerial if i was in an area which could also pick up the UK freeview channels (which I am not) hence why i went the freesat route.

I was just wondering if the reciever I have could be programmed manually to pick up the Irish Stations, except from tv 3 which i know is not on freesat.

If you you intend doing this yourself putting up a uhf aerial to recieve the irish channels will work out alot cheaper and easier than buying a ka lnb ,a diseq switch and probaly a second dish as an 80 cm dish is needed for saorsat.

zg3409

Duster wrote: »

I would have put up an aerial if i was in an area which could also pick up the UK freeview channels (which I am not) hence why i went the freesat route.

If you are in ROI the recommended setup is Saorview with an aerial and a Saorview terrestrial box. Saorsat is only for those who cannot get Saorview. It is more expensive and has less channels.

warlikedave

zg3409 wrote: »

If you are in ROI the recommended setup is Saorview with an aerial and a Saorview terrestrial box. Saorsat is only for those who cannot get Saorview. It is more expensive and has less channels.

Is the a good combo box preferably saorview approved - that this man can avail of if he was to get an ariel for saorview and to also use his dish installation for uk services? just a post note: the irish channels are on astra 28.2e but are scrambled/encrypted and thus only receivable via a sky box with a subscription

jjf1974

warlikedave wrote: »

Is the a good combo box preferably saorview approved - that this man can avail of if he was to get an ariel for saorview and to also use his dish installation for uk services? just a post note: the irish channels are on astra 28.2e but are scrambled/encrypted and thus only receivable via a sky box with a subscription

If you look in the terrestrial forum there is loads of threads about combo boxs,there is 5 saorview approved boxs named on the saorview site.

kingofslaves

Appologies if in the wrong thread, but I'm trying to help my landlady save money as she's finding it hard to afford Sky. She has 2 boxes both Sky+, one in the living room and one in her room. She asked me if she could get a non sky box and still have a selection of channels. She tends to watch comedy and soaps so not worried about sport or movies. What's the cheapest way of doing this ? i.e. box, switches LNBs etc ? For a start she's not too worried about only having the one box in her room for now, as she can still watch her soaps on the sky box downstairs without a subscription. TIA

The Cush

kingofslaves wrote: »

She has 2 boxes both Sky+, one in the living room and one in her room. She asked me if she could get a non sky box and still have a selection of channels. She tends to watch comedy and soaps so not worried about sport or movies. What's the cheapest way of doing this ? i.e. box, switches LNBs etc ? For a start she's not too worried about only having the one box in her room for now, as she can still watch her soaps on the sky box downstairs without a subscription.

Replace the Sky+ boxes with a Freesat+ receiver (built in recorder) downstairs and a standard Freesat zapper box in her room. Same dish and cabling.

List of Freesat channels here - http://www.freesat.co.uk/what-you-get/our-channels

Selection of Freesat receivers here and here (RH column)

irishgeo

i if i want to get astra and soarsat.

i have an offset arm.

where do i need to point the dish?

irishgeo

i if i want to get astra and soarsat.

i have an offset arm.

where do i need to point the dish?

zg3409

irishgeo wrote: »

i if i want to get astra and soarsat.
i have an offset arm.
where do i need to point the dish?

Normally you need a min of 80cm SOLID dish (I recommend 90cm min) and in some areas 1M, so check your area on the Saorsat dish size map.

Then normally the LNB's should be both slightly offset, although RTENL recommend the Saorsat LNB at prime.

Ideally set up Saorsat on it's own first, and then work towards a two satellite setup.

My recommendation is to set the dish up with say 16 East at prime, then get Saorsat at 9 East (with the special KA LNB) and then Astra at the other side of the centre. It's quite tricky to do. http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-Mar-2012-Rev-1.1.pdf

Depending on your offset bracket it might not be possible to put two LNB's either side of prime. Normally Saorsat is slightly closer to prime.

irishgeo

zg3409 wrote: »

Normally you need a min of 80cm SOLID dish (I recommend 90cm min) and in some areas 1M, so check your area on the Saorsat dish size map.

Then normally the LNB's should be both slightly offset, although RTENL recommend the Saorsat LNB at prime.

Ideally set up Saorsat on it's own first, and then work towards a two satellite setup.

My recommendation is to set the dish up with say 16 East at prime, then get Saorsat at 9 East (with the special KA LNB) and then Astra at the other side of the centre. It's quite tricky to do. http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/RTÉNL-SAORSAT-FAQs-Mar-2012-Rev-1.1.pdf

Depending on your offset bracket it might not be possible to put two LNB's either side of prime. Normally Saorsat is slightly closer to prime.

ill be using this http://www.tvtrade.ie/saorsat-and-freesat-lnb-holder.html

zg3409

irishgeo wrote: »

ill be using this http://www.tvtrade.ie/saorsat-and-freesat-lnb-holder.html

That bracket assumes one LNB will be held in the centre of the dish, and the other one will be offset. If using that bracket you have no choice but to set Soarsat 9 East as the prime, and then mount 28.2 offset until you find the UK channels. If it had 3 rings you could mount a "dummy" LNB at prime and not use it.

If you dish is only 80cm, then by my calculations, in the past, the signal on the UK channels may be a bit weak (depending on where in Ireland you are) so you may see breakup during very heavy rain etc. Even with a 90cm I would recommend offsetting both LNBs but with that bracket it's not possible.

excollier

I have a couple three holder versions of that holder, unused, and have installed a couple, but not for Saorsat. If you can get the three holder version, centre on 13e, and get yourself an extra set of channels, you may need some slim lnbs though.

irishgeo

its not as easy i thought.

the dish i will be using has a lnb holder in the center and then you attach this mount , and start fiddling. I best have a go at trying this myself before i start the other job.

So best bet is center align the dish to 16E and work from that.

zg3409

irishgeo wrote: »

So best bet is center align the dish to 16E and work from that.

If using that arm you have no choice but to put Saorsat 9 East as the centre, and 28.2 offset to one side.

irishgeo

zg3409 wrote: »

If using that arm you have no choice but to put Saorsat 9 East as the centre, and 28.2 offset to one side.

any suggestions for a better mount and dish to use?

zg3409

It depends on your needs and budget. A triax TD88 with it's multimount is not the worst. There are better makes but more expensive.

The dish and long multi LNB arm are in this catalogue
http://www.triax.co.uk/upload/section_satellitereception(1).pdf

Last page 300727

Depending on the make and type of your current dish something might be available. There are lots of multi LNB mounting options. Just make sure it covers a 20 degree arc (it needs to be long). If you already have bought the arm then it's probably worth a go.