Truth about Porn

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote: »

That's all nice that you obliged that girl who wanted to be choked.

Actually as mentioned previously, I didn't oblige. Mostly because I wasn't confident enough in my own control during sex to do such a thing, and besides the idea doesn't appeal. But you're missing the point. Its not about perversion or other negative aspects. Its about placiing trust in your partner considering the risks involved.

But this isnt about behind closed doors activities. Its about representations and mass productions distribution and money.

Of course it is about what goes on behind closed doors.. because any sexual action performed in a porn will have some basis in reality with the exception of the extreme fantasy type setups which are more humorous than anything else. A bit like watching Star Wars.. the special effects are cool, but you know you're not going to build a lightsaber and conquer the galaxy.

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

People imitate.

I'm not denying that they do, but I am questioning the motivation you are ascribing to it.

Ok. So you recognise the contempt, but its not gender based. It's misanthrope. Whatever.

I recognize that contempt and hate may well be a motivation in some cases. However, unlike you, Dines and others in this thread, I do not presume that this is the motivation in all or even a majority of cases - indeed, the evidence appears to point to other motivations.

In fairness, I respect that you are attempting to argue and even reexamine your case, unlike some posters, such as Eve_Dublin, who preferred to put forward their opinion then refused to stay and defend it.

metrovelvet wrote: »

But this isnt about behind closed doors activities. Its about representations and mass productions distribution and money.

Isn't that the porn industry, regardless of any conspiracy to promote misogyny?

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm not denying that they do, but I am questioning the motivation you are ascribing to it.

I recognize that contempt and hate may well be a motivation in some cases. However, unlike you, Dines and others in this thread, I do not presume that this is the motivation in all or even a majority of cases - indeed, the evidence appears to point to other motivations.

In fairness, I respect that you are attempting to argue and even reexamine your case, unlike some posters, such as Eve_Dublin, who preferred to put forward their opinion then refused to stay and defend it.

Isn't that the porn industry, regardless of any conspiracy to promote misogyny?

I'm not saying, nor do I believe hate is the motivation in all of the cases, or a will to destroy, but in some, what proportion I could not say, and I understood (perhaps incorrectly) that it is that proportion which is being examined.

Eve_Dublin

The Corinthian wrote: »

In fairness, I respect that you are attempting to argue and even reexamine your case, unlike some posters, such as Eve_Dublin, who preferred to put forward their opinion then refused to stay and defend it.

Listen Corinthian, to be honest I find your way of debating intimidating. I posted up an article as food for thought. I didn´t agree with a lot of it but I did agree with the premise that aggressive language used in porn is seeping into the real world. I hear it everywhere. Maybe you don´t but then I´m female and am seeing things from a different perspective. I find the language used in mainstream porn referring to females offensive. If you don´t agree that I should feel that way, then that´s your prerogative. I´m entitled to feel offended if I like without having to justify it. I´ve no intellectual argument to back up my feelings...it´s just how I feel when I watch porn. Perhaps there´s no logi to it but that´s how men and women differ...were controlled more by our emotions and gut feeling instead of logic. Respect the differences.

Listen, various people have come on here stating their case only to be shot down by you and Klaz. What´s the point in "defending my case" when you clearly have your own opinons and there´s absolutely no chance i´ll dissuade you from that? This discussion is a an extremely polarised argument...I´m not anti porn per se and watch it on occasion but after I "get my rocks off", I feel disgust. can´t justify that feeling....it´s how I feel and I guess I´m trying to look into why when in the "real world" I´d be very comfortable with myself sexually. No guilt there, just disgust.

It´s a contentious issue and one that is not going to be settled on this forum. It´s going nowhere and is kind of getting nasty. I don´t like the tone of this thread and don´t want to partake...free country n all that.

metrovelvet

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually as mentioned previously, I didn't oblige. Mostly because I wasn't confident enough in my own control during sex to do such a thing, and besides the idea doesn't appeal. But you're missing the point. Its not about perversion or other negative aspects. Its about placiing trust in your partner considering the risks involved.



Of course it is about what goes on behind closed doors.. because any sexual action performed in a porn will have some basis in reality with the exception of the extreme fantasy type setups which are more humorous than anything else. A bit like watching Star Wars.. the special effects are cool, but you know you're not going to build a lightsaber and conquer the galaxy.

Look. I'm not suggesting porn be censored because people imitate, even unbeknownst to themselves. I've had frieds disgusted with themselves when they find themselves pronouncung tomato like an American after a few days with me.

What I'm saying is that we should be aware of our tendancies to mimicry.

metrovelvet

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Listen Corinthian, to be honest I find your way of debating intimidating. I posted up an article as food for thought. I didn´t agree with a lot of it but I did agree with the premise that aggressive language used in porn is seeping into the real world. I hear it everywhere. Maybe you don´t but then I´m female and am seeing things from a different perspective. I find the language used in mainstream porn referring to females offensive. If you don´t agree that I should feel that way, then that´s your prerogative. I´m entitled to feel offended if I like without having to justify it. I´ve no intellectual argument to back up my feelings...it´s just how I feel when I watch porn. Perhaps there´s no logi to it but that´s how men and women differ...were controlled more by our emotions and gut feeling instead of logic. Respect the differences.

Listen, various people have come on here stating their case only to be shot down by you and Klaz. What´s the point in "defending my case" when you clearly have your own opinons and there´s absolutely no chance i´ll dissuade you from that? This discussion is a an extremely polarised argument...I´m not anti porn per se and watch it on occasion but after I "get my rocks off", I feel disgust. can´t justify that feeling....it´s how I feel and I guess I´m trying to look into why when in the "real world" I´d be very comfortable with myself sexually. No guilt there, just disgust.

It´s a contentious issue and one that

I often get caught in this trap. I think its collaborative discourse and low and behold, it's not, it's a polarised debate.

Sometimes its not either/or it's both/and.

Eve_Dublin

metrovelvet wrote: »

I often get caught in this trap. I think its collaborative discourse and low and behold, it's not, it's a polarised debate.

Sometimes its not either/or it's both/and.

You´re "re-examining" your stance on this "debate" (good girl Metrovelvet) but there´s not a hope in hell these boys will see it from another (female) perspective. **** this for so-called "debate".

metrovelvet

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You´re "re-examining" your stance on this "debate" (good girl Metrovelvet) but there´s not a hope in hell these boys will see it from another (female) perspective. **** this for so-called "debate".

That's why I suspect they are too attached to the subject matter.

Eve_Dublin

metrovelvet wrote: »

That's why I suspect they are too attached to the subject matter.

So really, why would anyone bother their arse entering into a debate with them when they clearly won´t? Your a brave woman for trying.

catthinkin

i think its healthy to have debates like this and if people question your perspective on things they have the right to question your standpoint . Equally however you have the right not to answer or justify yourself to them . I really dont think its anything personal and i am a female.

metrovelvet

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

So really, why would anyone bother their arse entering into a debate with them when they clearly won´t? Your a brave woman for trying.

There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Listen, various people have come on here stating their case only to be shot down by you and Klaz.

Its a bulletin board. You throw up opinions (and some rather extreme opinions in my eyes) and I'll disagree. Argue intelligently/reasonably and there's a chance that I'll change my viewpoint to be more in line with yours. Its happened plenty of times in the past. But throwing out massive generalisations focused on men, and I'll respond. But then I'd do the same about women too.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

Its a bulletin board. You throw up opinions (and some rather extreme opinions in my eyes) and I'll disagree. Argue intelligently/reasonably and there's a chance that I'll change my viewpoint to be more in line with yours. Its happened plenty of times in the past. But throwing out massive generalisations focused on men, and I'll respond. But then I'd do the same about women too.

I´m responding to Corinthian, not you. Unless you are, in fact, "one"? If so, good luck with that

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote: »

What I'm saying is that we should be aware of our tendancies to mimicry.

I don't really see the relevance TBH. There's quite a bit of difference between mimicry of language and mimicry of sexual activities. You made the reference to Friends. One of the most popular sitcoms of all time. But what is the most popular Porn of all time, which would have the same fan base comparable to that of Friends?

The point I'm making is that there are forms of mimicry which are easy to adapt to. Language being the easiest. But you're proposing that people who watch porn mimic the sexual positions & attitudes in the productions. And honestly for the vast majority of mainstream porn the positions used are relatively tame, so mimicry wouldn't be much of an issue. Its the "extreme" type of porn which is getting the focus here on this thread.

And that brings mimicry of such porn into a far different category than a comparison with Friends. Tell me, how many people went out and copy-catted the activities in SAW 1/2/3? Considering that SAW would be even more extreme, and yet have a much wider audience considering its cult status worldwide.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You´re "re-examining" your stance on this "debate" (good girl Metrovelvet) but there´s not a hope in hell these boys will see it from another (female) perspective. **** this for so-called "debate".

Another female perspective was given by catthinkin on this very page. Did you bother to read it?

But i love the way that this has become a us versus them (male versus female) battle... Completely typical.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I´m responding to Corinthian, not you. Unless you are, in fact, "one"? If so, good luck with that

When you put my Nick in a post and make a point, surely I have the right to respond?

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

I'm not saying, nor do I believe hate is the motivation in all of the cases, or a will to destroy, but in some, what proportion I could not say, and I understood (perhaps incorrectly) that it is that proportion which is being examined.

I don't think we can examine that proportion here. We lack credible data to discuss over.

metrovelvet wrote: »

I often get caught in this trap. I think its collaborative discourse and low and behold, it's not, it's a polarised debate.

And have we not reached a point where there is some agreement that misogyny may be a motivation in some cases and other motivations may exist in others? Is this not a departure from the original, more polarized, positions? Is this not the essence of collaborative discourse?

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Listen Corinthian, to be honest I find your way of debating intimidating. I posted up an article as food for thought. I didn´t agree with a lot of it but I did agree with the premise that aggressive language used in porn is seeping into the real world. I hear it everywhere. Maybe you don´t but then I´m female and am seeing things from a different perspective. I find the language used in mainstream porn referring to females offensive. If you don´t agree that I should feel that way, then that´s your prerogative. I´m entitled to feel offended if I like without having to justify it. I´ve no intellectual argument to back up my feelings...it´s just how I feel when I watch porn. Perhaps there´s no logi to it but that´s how men and women differ...were controlled more by our emotions and gut feeling instead of logic. Respect the differences.

I don't. I don't believe that men and women are or should differ on that basis. Women are every bit as rational and logical as men, and men are every bit as emotional and prone to 'gut feeling' as women.

What differs is that some, both men and women, delude themselves into believing that the irrational is an acceptable alternative to the rational. It's not and we saw it earlier in this thread, and it wasn't women that were doing it either.

Worse still, you've pinned this down to your gender, almost abdicating any responsibility for the capacity for rational thought by claiming essentially that you're "just a girl". Congratulations on setting back gender equality by a century.

Listen, various people have come on here stating their case only to be shot down by you and Klaz. What´s the point in "defending my case" when you clearly have your own opinons and there´s absolutely no chance i´ll dissuade you from that?

Of course you can dissuade people from their opinions, but you're not going to do so by stating an opinion and then essentially claiming it's correct because you say so. I've had my opinion changed or amended plenty of times here over the years, but it was always an appeal reason that did this, not an appeal to emotion.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You´re "re-examining" your stance on this "debate" (good girl Metrovelvet) but there´s not a hope in hell these boys will see it from another (female) perspective. **** this for so-called "debate".

Metro is at least engaging logically in the debate, because it is evident that she is open to exploring her views on this. You weren't and so didn't come here for a debate - you came for a validatory group hug.

metrovelvet

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really see the relevance TBH. There's quite a bit of difference between mimicry of language and mimicry of sexual activities. You made the reference to Friends. One of the most popular sitcoms of all time. But what is the most popular Porn of all time, which would have the same fan base comparable to that of Friends?

The point I'm making is that there are forms of mimicry which are easy to adapt to. Language being the easiest. But you're proposing that people who watch porn mimic the sexual positions & attitudes in the productions. And honestly for the vast majority of mainstream porn the positions used are relatively tame, so mimicry wouldn't be much of an issue. Its the "extreme" type of porn which is getting the focus here on this thread.

And that brings mimicry of such porn into a far different category than a comparison with Friends. Tell me, how many people went out and copy-catted the activities in SAW 1/2/3? Considering that SAW would be even more extreme, and yet have a much wider audience considering its cult status worldwide.

No. That's not what I'm suggesting. It's far more subtle than that and too complex for this thread.

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote: »

No. That's not what I'm suggesting. It's far more subtle than that and too complex for this thread.

So start up another thread and we can discuss it further.

catthinkin

metrovelvet wrote: »

No. That's not what I'm suggesting. It's far more subtle than that and too complex for this thread.[/QUOTE

hmm what are you suggesting then . correct me if i am wrong but were you not implying that people watching porn were apt to act out what they have seen ?

I would agree that some do and whilst some of the acts are unpleasant not all that is portrayed in porn is about hating woman some of the acts depicted are soley for the pleasure of woman such as the act of cunniligus .

Eve_Dublin

The Corinthian wrote: »

Worse still, you've pinned this down to your gender, almost abdicating any responsibility for the capacity for rational thought by claiming essentially that you're "just a girl". Congratulations on setting back gender equality by a century.

Oh ffs. Listen to yourself. Nasty.

I don´t want to carry on with this debate...am I allowed to leave without being bitched about once I´m gone??

metrovelvet

catthinkin wrote: »

metrovelvet wrote: »

No. That's not what I'm suggesting. It's far more subtle than that and too complex for this thread.[/QUOTE

hmm what are you suggesting then . correct me if i am wrong but were you not implying that people watching porn were apt to act out what they have seen ?

I would agree that some do and whilst some of the acts are unpleasant not all that is portrayed in porn is about hating woman some of the acts depicted are soley for the pleasure of woman such as the act of cunniligus .

No. That's not what I'm suggesting.

We've already agreed that we are talking about a proportional distribution of porn.

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

Another female perspective was given by catthinkin on this very page. Did you bother to read it?

But i love the way that this has become a us versus them (male versus female) battle... Completely typical.

Typical of what? Of a female or of me? Speak up!

catthinkin

metrovelvet wrote: »

catthinkin wrote: »

No. That's not what I'm suggesting.

We've already agreed that we are talking about a proportional distribution of porn.

Ok i am lost ? what are you suggesting ?

are you sayin most porn displays acts of misogyny against woman more than acts which are pleasurable to woman ? proportionally

Eve_Dublin

Deleted User wrote: »

When you put my Nick in a post and make a point, surely I have the right to respond?

I was replying to a post from Corinthian directed at me. Look again.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Typical of what? Of a female or of me? Speak up!

Speak up? That's awfully ignorant. Typical of you.. retreating to gender bias when you can't be bothered to argue a subject properly. Entrenched thinking of us versus them.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I was replying to a post from Corinthian directed at me. Look again.

Which you replied and included my name. I suggest you check the part I responded to, which linked my nick to that of Corinthian's.

zenith

Hi,

We expect the highest standard of civil discourse in here. Please be particularly mindful of forms of words that might be characterized as a personal attack on another poster, rather than a disagreement with regard to their point of view.

Also, fwiw; mods don't referee. Don't expect that we will intervene preemptively on grounds of 'fairness'. Fight your own corner.

zenith

The Corinthian

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Oh ffs. Listen to yourself. Nasty.

Maybe, but that does not invalidate what I wrote. You have essentially said that 'women are irrational' and bizarrely expect no comment against this.

Women are not irrational - that's pure sexism talking. Women are just as rational as men, just some hide behind this chauvinism so as to abdicate responsibility for their actions, choices and opinions.

I don´t want to carry on with this debate...am I allowed to leave without being bitched about once I´m gone??

The right to have and express an opinion does not extend to the right to avoid the consequences for expressing it. If you subsequently become the poster girl for how not to debate, then you have to accept that consequence.

Eve_Dublin

I honestly don´t know what you´re talking about on this thread at this stage. It´s over my head (I´m just a girl after all!) so I can´t really debate any longer if I´ve lost track of what´s being talked about.

metrovelvet

catthinkin wrote: »

metrovelvet wrote: »

Ok i am lost ? what are you suggesting ?

are you sayin most porn displays acts of misogyny against woman more than acts which are pleasurable to woman ? proportionally

No. I'm saying neither. I've already explained this. We are talking about a proportion of porn which displays, represents, posits, whatever controversial,arguably misogynistic acts upon women on screen.

We are discussing whether or not this has a detrimental affect on women's and men's lives.