'She's not THAT pretty'

beks101

Have you ever said it? Have you ever had it said about you?

This thread was inspired by a few of the comments I read on the 'deadly looking' thread but didn't want to hijack...:)

I'm sure it's been done to death, the good old female-to-female begrudgery, but it's always an interesting one!

I went to college with an exceptionally good looking girl, absolutely stunning, she'd walk into a room and every head, male and female, would turn. Let's call her Sarah...she became commonly known as 'hot Sarah' around campus, something that even she would joke about. Yet over the four years in college, I lost count of the amount of times I heard other women, both friends and acquaintances, saying 'she's not really that pretty...' and then go on to validate their argument with 'too skinny', 'too conventionally good looking, it's boring...', 'too mainstream', 'no distinguished features' etc.

When I look back, it's almost hilarious that anyone would debate this girl's attractiveness, it was just off the charter, but (and I say this with great shame) at the time I remember feeling almost compelled to join in. Naturally I'm still jealous as hell when I see an absolute knock-out of a woman, but at least now I'm comfortable saying 'she's amazing-looking' instead of denying the very-obvious in the first place.

I think it relates to all aspects of appearance though, the next big one (pun unintended) being weight. A few years back I lost about two stone, was a size six, not skin and bone at my short height but fairly slim and petite. A lot of women didn't like that one. I went from being the girl that every girl loved to complete hostility upon meeting female strangers/acquaintances and even some friends. I got glares and nasty comments, with one friend calling me 'Anny-rexic' to my face (hilarious) and others saying I was 'obviously starving myself' or 'too thin it's disgusting' behind my back. In hindsight it came off too fast but I looked the best I've ever looked, certainly nowhere near a walking skeleton.

Why do we do this? Have you ever had it done to you? Have you ever been isolated because other females can't handle the 'competition' when you are around, or even lost friends because you became 'too much of a threat'? How did you learn to stop doing it, or how have you learned to cope with it?

Nervous Wreck

The whole thing comes down to one word: Insecurity. Most people who say things like that are just saying it because they know that they're not as pretty/thin/whatever themself. The other thing is attention. Lots of girls are just as stunning as the girls they defame but the new girl always stands out and getting pushed off a pedastal to make way for someone new and pretty can be quite upsetting. Generally, most people (IME anyway) get over the whole buzz as they get older and more secure in themselves. Unfortunately, some don't, and that's a real shame. Never something one should worry about really though. Just the way some people are.

Catari Jaguar

Well I think girls are hot and I'll point them out in the street with my boyfriend and vice versa. If she's pretty then I'll say it, but if I don't think she is then I'll say it. There are a ton of girls that wouldn't be my type that I just think are boring or skinny or whatever but I can see their attraction to people (like Cheryl Cole for instance, give me Kimberly Walsh any day)

Pics?

Pittens

The hating on Karen Gillian is a case in point.

Catari Jaguar

Pittens wrote: »

The hating on Karen Gillian is a case in point.

Huh?

Pittens

New Doctor Who sidekick, disliked for her bad acting largely ( although not always) by female Dr. Who fans.

Catari Jaguar

Pittens wrote: »

New Doctor Who sidekick, disliked for her bad acting largely ( although not always) by female Dr. Who fans.

Is that because she's pretty or because she gets to work alongside a man that they crush on? Maybe they don't like red heads??? Did they dislike Billie Piper?

Although, you'd think with Twilight mania and the R-Patz obessision girls would be jealous of Kristen Stewart, but instead they idolise her and wanted her to get with him in real life. Weird.

Pittens

Pittens wrote: »

New Doctor Who sidekick, disliked for her bad acting largely ( although not always) by female Dr. Who fans.

But she's awesome! AND she's very pretty. I was stunned when I saw her pic in some mag

Although, you'd think with Twilight mania and the R-Patz obessision girls would be jealous of Kristen Stewart

She'd be ok if she wasn't looking pouty/emo, I'm a bit tired of seeing her face all over the buses...

Junior D

cherub rock wrote: »

Well I think girls are hot and I'll point them out in the street with my boyfriend and vice versa. If she's pretty then I'll say it, but if I don't think she is then I'll say it. There are a ton of girls that wouldn't be my type that I just think are boring or skinny or whatever but I can see their attraction to people (like Cheryl Cole for instance, give me Kimberly Walsh any day)

Ha great minds think alike

I've said it. Not out of jealousy, but I'm a straightforward person. I'd be the first to point out a stunning looking girl, but sometimes people are raving about someone and I just don't see it. I think a lot of people are taken in by blond hair, and call someone stunning because they're blonde and blue eyed when they actually have a very average face. I know quite a lot of girls like that - some of them dyed their hair dark and then people started saying they looked plain, so they were hardly stunning in the first place, surely? Facial features appeal to me over hair colour. I wouldn't normally have a preference for ginger haired people, but I saw Karen Gillen in the flesh a couple of months ago and she's gorgeous, and would be with any hair colour/clothes.

I do agree though, that a lot of women do do the whole 'she's not that pretty' thing just to be bitchy, especially when accompanied by hostility towards the person. I totally believe the story about 'Sarah' in college, I've seen it happen in my college with a girl who was a professional model. She was a lovely girl but people didn't like her because she was pretty. I think it's almost easier to be a plain looking women in terms of being accepted by other women. I will never understand why it's OK to be a bitch to someone because they're better looking than you.

seenitall

beks101 wrote: »

Have you ever said it? Have you ever had it said about you?

This thread was inspired by a few of the comments I read on the 'deadly looking' thread but didn't want to hijack...:)

I'm sure it's been done to death, the good old female-to-female begrudgery, but it's always an interesting one!

I went to college with an exceptionally good looking girl, absolutely stunning, she'd walk into a room and every head, male and female, would turn. Let's call her Sarah...she became commonly known as 'hot Sarah' around campus, something that even she would joke about. Yet over the four years in college, I lost count of the amount of times I heard other women, both friends and acquaintances, saying 'she's not really that pretty...' and then go on to validate their argument with 'too skinny', 'too conventionally good looking, it's boring...', 'too mainstream', 'no distinguished features' etc.

When I look back, it's almost hilarious that anyone would debate this girl's attractiveness, it was just off the charter, but (and I say this with great shame) at the time I remember feeling almost compelled to join in. Naturally I'm still jealous as hell when I see an absolute knock-out of a woman, but at least now I'm comfortable saying 'she's amazing-looking' instead of denying the very-obvious in the first place.

I think it relates to all aspects of appearance though, the next big one (pun unintended) being weight. A few years back I lost about two stone, was a size six, not skin and bone at my short height but fairly slim and petite. A lot of women didn't like that one. I went from being the girl that every girl loved to complete hostility upon meeting female strangers/acquaintances and even some friends. I got glares and nasty comments, with one friend calling me 'Anny-rexic' to my face (hilarious) and others saying I was 'obviously starving myself' or 'too thin it's disgusting' behind my back. In hindsight it came off too fast but I looked the best I've ever looked, certainly nowhere near a walking skeleton.

Why do we do this? Have you ever had it done to you? Have you ever been isolated because other females can't handle the 'competition' when you are around, or even lost friends because you became 'too much of a threat'? How did you learn to stop doing it, or how have you learned to cope with it?

Yeah, this thread is very similar to the other one; I kind of just vented my opinion on there, on the way women's insecurites work themselves out through certain celebrities, so I am done for now.

Women's passive-agressive jealousy (bitchiness) gives me headaches.

RacoonQueen

Or maybe different people just have different ideals of what is attractive in another woman - same as they do with men?

rainbow kirby

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Or maybe different people just have different ideals of what is attractive in another woman - same as they do with men?

Agree with this. We all have our own opinions of what constitutes "attractive", and this can differ quite considerably from person to person.

ztoical

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Or maybe different people just have different ideals of what is attractive in another woman - same as they do with men?

Was just about to post the same thing. I'm not mad about men with hairy chests but know several friends who think it's super hot and attractive. Now not saying in the OP's example there wasn't some people saying it due to having issues with either the girl in question or themselves but you'd be hard to find one person that every single person says is pretty/attractive.

As I went to art college [actually two different art colleges] we'd often talk about how people looked from an artistic view point and talk about how some people wouldn't be straight up pretty when you look at them but they've got interesting features that not everyone fill find attractive but certain people will find very attractive. As an artist I find the majority of people that I'm told are 'pretty'/'good looking' I don't rate at all mainly cus if I was to draw them I wouldn't find them interesting as they tend to be very blah. The first art school I went to hired life drawing models were ever it could find them and we got some really interesting people who might not be seen as pretty but were interesting to look at and draw. Second art school had a firm they got their life drawing models from and these models were actual models who did fashion modeling and they were just really crap to draw, bland on top of bland.

Sound Bite

Think its a awful thing to say whether its true or not.
The only reason someone say it IMO is out of jealousy.

Sound Bite

Sound Bite wrote: »

Think its a awful thing to say whether its true or not.
The only reason someone say it IMO is out of jealousy.

Total rubbish. How does genuinely not finding someone attractive make you jealous? Being a bitch to someone because they're pretty, yeah that stems from insecurity and jealousy, but commenting on their looks is commenting on their looks. Would you think it was an 'awful thing to say' if a woman said a man wasn't THAT handsome?

Pittens

[quote=[Deleted User];66717888]Total rubbish. How does genuinely not finding someone attractive make you jealous? Being a bitch to someone because they're pretty, yeah that stems from insecurity and jealousy, but commenting on their looks is commenting on their looks. Would you think it was an 'awful thing to say' if a woman said a man wasn't THAT handsome?[/QUOTE]

Is it really genuine?

Eve_Dublin

I´ve vented my opinion on this on the other thread but I would like to ad that I think a lot of it stems from the pressure on young women to be the most beautiful. I readan article a few years ago from a feminist writer from the sixties (I will try and find it) that back in the day, women were more accepting of the fact that they weren´t the most stunning woman in the world. That there was the pretty girl and then there was everyone else. Film stars were film stars, they weren´t like you and me but nowadays you have young girls comparing themselves to the unattainable and trying to emulate these famous beauties by starving themselves, slathering themselves in too much fake tan, dying their hair, caking on too much make up...so much so that they´re completely changing their physical appearance in the quest for supposed "beauty".

Seenitall you said in the last thread that you wouldn´t be jealous of anyone famous (I would be the same except for my riidiculous jealousy of Scarlett Johansson! I can explain....long story...let´s just say I´d an ex who was a little TOO obsessed by her). Famous women have millions to spend on themselves and the average Irish girl is never going to compare so there´s just no point but we have companies using these women´s images to market their products and subliminally making us believe that we, the average lady on the street, can look like these women. It´s all very sinister so honestly, I wouldn´t be so hard on girls like this (although it does irritate me)....there is a REAL pressure on us to be beautiful and if your in anyway insecure and particularly when you´re a young, impressionable woman, then it´s hard to be rational and not let the jealousy surface.

Eve_Dublin

Pittens wrote: »

Is it really genuine?

Of course it´s genuine in a lot of cases. Not every woman in the world is a neurotic ball of insecurity, contrary to popular belief.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Of course it´s genuine in a lot of cases. Not every woman in the world is a neurotic ball of insecurity, contrary to popular belief.

Why would they be bothered to comment on someones looks if they weren't remarkable so?

Eve_Dublin

Moonbaby wrote: »

Why would they be bothered to comment on someones looks if they weren't remarkable so?

If I commented on someone not being a particularly good football player, would it be jealousy? Why is it only commenting on looks that´s seen as "jealousy" and not just stating a fact? Yep, some girls say it out of jealousy but some girls are simply stating a fact. It´s probably not a nice thing to say but it doesn´t ALWAYS stem from jealousy.

Pittens

Of course it´s genuine in a lot of cases. Not every woman in the world is a neurotic ball of insecurity, contrary to popular belief.

It is never genuine. We all know who are the good looking women. It is really decided by men. if the vast majority of hetrosexual men ( and homosexual women) think a woman pretty, then she is. And that is not getting into the why of the thing: which is actual easy enough. ( eyes, bone structure, skin, teeth, smile, etc.).

So if plain jane is the only person to find a fantastic looking celeb merely alright looking, if she just doesn't see it, then we can take that as jealousy rather than her actually seeing things different from the rest of the human population.

Similarly, although you never see or hear this, a plain Joe cant really get away with not seeing the whole fuss about Brad Pitt.

he can't go around with a beer belly, acne, and bad teeth and proclaim " I am Just not seeing the Brad Pitt thing. What is every body else thinking?"

Of course you never see a guy react like that? If you did, what would you think?

Pittens

Why is it only commenting on looks that´s seen as "jealousy" and not just stating a fact?

Becuase it is not a fact. The women singled out are clearly good looking - in fact that is often why they are famous.

You can say Messi is a crap player. But he isnt.

ztoical

Moonbaby wrote: »

Why would they be bothered to comment on someones looks if they weren't remarkable so?

because the fact they aren't remarkable is in it's self interesting? Maybe I can't look at this objectively as I pretty much spend every day looking at people and drawing them - just today I drew half a dozen people on my way to my studio and as a result of having to look so closely at people I've found that most people are interesting and have things about them that make them attractive in different ways but I find what alot of people think of as making someone pretty [nice shape face, good hair, good skin, etc] I find very unremarkable.

People actions also help shape your view and opinion of them but it's not always jealousy that's the major emotion. For example I saw a girl that would have been considered very pretty on the tube earlier today. I watched her eat some food then drop the empty wrapper on the floor of the train with out a second thought [been kicking myself all day for not calling her on it] She still looked the same after littering but I found myself looking at her and seeing the flaws more then the pretty.

Eve_Dublin

I would never say Messi was a great footballer!! Are you mad?

I would agree that yes, the beautiful women of the world that are considered as such ARE beautiful....no doubt about it BUT (again) there ARE exceptions...those that exist in the "grey" zone and that´s the women I´M talking about.

women know the beauty secrets of other women. We know that some of the supposed beauties out there have had a lot of surgury and we know the powers of make up. An average Plain Jane can look "stunning" with the right make up, clothes, etc. I´ve a pretty good eye for guessing what a woman looks like minus the slappage.

It doesn´t matter if you stick up a ropey picture of Megan Fox who women AND men have commented on how she is "not really that good looking"....fact of the matter is the woman is twenty million better looking than your average woman on the street even in a ropey photo. She has a good base...super cheekbones, sexy eyes etc.Those comments stem from jealousy BUT there´s women out there who are very much in the "grey" zone.

Let me see...Britney Spears for example....NOT as good looking as everyone says in my opinion but she has a fantastic team of stylists on her side.

Edit: just to add, the comment above did not stem from jealousy. I was simply stating a fact. If you don´t believe me, then I can´t convince you other wise.

ztoical

Pittens wrote: »

So if plain jane is the only person to find a fantastic looking celeb merely alright looking, if she just doesn't see it, then we can take that as jealousy rather than her actually seeing things different from the rest of the human population.

So if a super attractive woman finds a 'fantastic' looking celeb merely alright looking then her opinion is more valid then a plain jane cus she couldn't be jealous?

What makes someone fantastic looking? Isn't the whole point that different people have different ideas of what 'fantastic' is? Not all celebs look the same so surely your going to find some that you think as better looking then others. Lets say for example I think Tilda Swinton is really good looking and that Megan Foxx is alright looking. Now Megan Foxx has been voted best looking or something by FHM and Tilda Swinton has not but clearly from an aesthetic view point I find Swinton's appearance to be more attractive then Foxx...does that mean I'm jealous of Megan Foxx or that simply I've got different tastes?

Pittens

ztoical wrote: »

So if a super attractive woman finds a 'fantastic' looking celeb merely alright looking then her opinion is more valid then a plain jane cus she couldn't be jealous?

What makes someone fantastic looking? Isn't the whole point that different people have different ideas of what 'fantastic' is? Not all celebs look the same so surely your going to find some that you think as better looking then others. Lets say for example I think Tilda Swinton is really good looking and that Megan Foxx is alright looking. Now Megan Foxx has been voted best looking or something by FHM and Tilda Swinton has not but clearly from an aesthetic view point I find Swinton's appearance to be more attractive then Foxx...does that mean I'm jealous of Megan Foxx or that simply I've got different tastes?

Yeah, they are all 9 's or 10s. You are not saying you don't see either as good looking. Anyway to the first question about whether the suer attractive woman would be more genuine by knocking the looks of another woman. No. But I don't really see that.

Pittens

Pittens wrote: »

Is it really genuine?

Of course it is. Why is it fine to say you don't like a wine that everyone else seems to like, or you don't like a singer everyone else seems to like, but saying a woman isn't that pretty makes you jealous? It's stating an opinion.

And nothing is 'decided by men' :rolleyes: It's not like a woman is pretty or she isn't, is it? I hear way more men than women debating over women's looks. And why are you assuming a woman who says another woman isn't pretty is a plain jane? That's a hell of a lot of projection there.

Like Eve Dublin says, women can 'see through' other women very easily. If a girl is only 'hot' because she has dyed blond hair and layers of make-up, I can see that immediately. I have loads of model friends who you might not look twice at on the street because they don't dress up, but they have a great bone structure and figure.

I really don't understand why my boyfriend can say he doesn't find Jennifer Lopez or Anna Kournikova attractive, and that's fine, but if I were to say the same, it means I'm jealous.

ztoical

Pittens wrote: »

Yeah, they are all 9 's or 10s. You are not saying you don't see either as good looking.

Actually I am saying that I don't think one is good looking. I don't rate megan foxx as being all that and I know loads of people who think Tilda Swinton is very odd looking and not attractive at all. It doesn't mean anyone is jealous just that people have different tastes. There are loads of celebs out there I just don't get what people find attractive about them [olsen twins, most of the cast of twilight etc] I can't possible be jealous of all these people, they just fall into an aesthetic that doesn't appeal to me while I'm sure I can name half a dozen people that others would think are average to below average looks wise in their eyes but who I find very interesting and attractive. I'm not saying any of these people ugly or deformed just that for me they're not that pretty.

Pittens wrote: »

Anyway to the first question about whether the suer attractive woman would be more genuine by knocking the looks of another woman. No. But I don't really see that.

Look harder then cus the only people I see in clubs and pubs knocking other people are pretty girls knocking other pretty girls....those groups are the only ones I put in the 'saying it due to being jealous' group.

Eve_Dublin

Pittens wrote: »

The hating on Karen Gillian is a case in point.

This thread was in After Hours a few weeks ago....do you reckon these MEN are all jealous of her? No? If we do the same then we´re jealous? Hmmm.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055648493&highlight=karen+gillian