Coming Out in the World of Soccer

Mick Daly

Having seen a BBC Inside Sport documentary on there a while ago I made a few discoveries.

• John Fashanu is the only footballer to come out as gay.
• Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Gerard Pique were snapped in a gay pose in May 2010.

(http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/barcelona/26222/whats-the-deal-with-zlatan-ibrahimovic-and-gerard-pique.html)


Never heard about the Barcalona stars gay image before. This is surprising. I would have presumed that the Irish Sun, Mirror, Star would have had a field day with it?

The documentary also showed Donal Óg Cusack of Cork hurling fame.


What are ye're opinions on the whole thing? Max Clifford says there are a few stars who he has advised to stay in the closet. Any big Premier League stars who don't have a girlfriend? Could Jamie Carragher be gay?

It's all a bit sad that people's opinions will change when some of them come out.

alwaysadub

Does anyone really care tbh?
If someone stops supporting their team cos a player is gay,well then, they're a sap

tommyhaas

1. Jamie Carragher's married

2. John Fash isint gay, his brother Justin was, he killed himself a few years back

Hank_Jones

It was John Fashanu's brother, not Fashanu himself.

Brother eventually committed suicide because he could take all the abuse he was getting.

Mezcita

Mick Daly wrote: »

Could Jamie Carragher be gay?

Jesus, if he is I hope his wife and kids are cool about it.

"Carragher is married to his childhood sweetheart, Nicola Hart, and has two children; James and Mia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Carragher#Personal_life

oppenheimer1

Mick Daly wrote: »

Having seen a BBC Inside Sport documentary on there a while ago I made a few discoveries.

• John Fashanu is the only footballer to come out as gay.
• Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Gerard Pique were snapped in a gay pose in May 2010.

(http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/barcelona/26222/whats-the-deal-with-zlatan-ibrahimovic-and-gerard-pique.html)


Never heard about the Barcalona stars gay image before. This is surprising. I would have presumed that the Irish Sun, Mirror, Star would have had a field day with it?

The documentary also showed Donal Óg Cusack of Cork hurling fame.


What are ye're opinions on the whole thing? Max Clifford says there are a few stars who he has advised to stay in the closet. Any big Premier League stars who don't have a girlfriend? Could Jamie Carragher be gay?

It's all a bit sad that people's opinions will change when some of them come out.

Not often I agree with Max Clifford, however he is right. Coming out ruined Justin Fashanu's career, in the end he killed himself due to allegations of inappropriate behaviour with a boy afaik. I am surprised the more salacious elements in the media don't report it though, maybe even they're above that.

Football fans aren't known to be the most tolerant of folks, just listen to some of the chants from the terraces.

mink_man

thats not a gay pose of pique and ibrah, theyre obviously arm wresting..:rolleyes:

Mick Daly

I know Mr.Carragher is marret. I was just proposing that if some super world class legend like himself came out how would people react.

Mick Daly

I got it wrong. It were Justin alright.


John was quoted as saying he'd rather the media kept quiet incase people thought it was him that was gay and then his career would be over. Some bruver he was!

That_Guy

Shouldn't really sway people's opinions of the players tbh. As long as they put their heart and soul into playing for their club/country it shouldn't really matter what they do off the pitch.

Neberkenezer

wayne rooney is a renound homosexual in the manchester area .... that sh*te with coleen is just a smokescreen.you heard it here first

Hank_Jones

That_Guy wrote: »

Shouldn't really sway people's opinions of the players tbh. As long as they put their heart and soul into playing for their club/country it shouldn't really matter what they do off the pitch.

It's a very ''macho'' sport, that's never going to change the way it is.
At least not for a long time anyway.

It's a sport in which racism is still rife sure, fans still shout racist comments/chants from the stands.

Mick Daly

One point that Clarke Carlisle of Burnley made in the documentary was the changing rooms.

He said that if he were in a shower with 20 fit burds then he would be getting 'ard. So most other fellas would assume the gay man would get 'ard at the sight of a load of fit lads in the shower.

Mick Daly

Neberkenezer wrote: »

wayne rooney is a renound homosexual in the manchester area .... that sh*te with coleen is just a smokescreen.you heard it here first

Nah. John O'Shea got married last week I think. United fans won't be shouting "John O'Shea, You're gay" anymore!

Nulty

I heard rumours Gary Neville, John O'Shea and Ashley Cole were gay. But then I heard Andy Reid doesn't like tomato ketchup...

I was so disappointed

mink_man

rumour has it that damian johnson for birmingham is gay, ironic because he is a hard tackler type of player...

Bodhisopha

I've heard rumours about Young and Bent.

tommyhaas

Nulty wrote: »

I heard rumours Gary Neville, John O'Shea and Ashley Cole were gay. But then I heard Andy Reid doesn't like tomato ketchup...

I was so disappointed

Gary Neville is David Beckhams b!tch, I seen a documentary a few years back, he was over is Beckhams house while posh was away, cooking his dinner for him and all he was

Hank_Jones

Bodhisopha wrote: »

I've heard rumours about Young and Bent.

Is this a pun or what?

tommyhaas

Cristiano Ronaldo on getting a brusie on his face

I don't like to look like this, but in four or five days I will be beautiful once again

Must be gay

ascanbe

It's no longer an issue; the sport itself has taken the all-important first step:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xLn-X8YJRg

Hank_Jones

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/052009/1242226186_ronaldo-stunned.gif

starbelgrade

All footballers are gay. Everyone knows that.

Bodhisopha

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Is this a pun or what?

If it is, i don't get it!

starbelgrade

mink_man wrote: »

rumour has it that damian johnson for birmingham is gay, ironic because he is a hard tackler type of player...

So he likes a hard tackle?

Definitely gay, so.

Doop

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Not often I agree with Max Clifford, however he is right. Coming out ruined Justin Fashanu's career, in the end he killed himself due to allegations of inappropriate behaviour with a boy afaik. I am surprised the more salacious elements in the media don't report it though, maybe even they're above that.

Football fans aren't known to be the most tolerant of folks, just listen to some of the chants from the terraces.

Seriously, recommending people stay in the closet is never going help anything. People should be taken on their skill at the game, not who they sleep with. (as long as someone wants to come out).

I know in reality this is not the case but we're never going to get anywhere if poeple think 'the gheys' should stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone.

An AFL player recently made similar comments and thankfully recieved a massive backlash from the media and public..
http://www.news.com.au/national/stay-in-the-closet-footballer-tells-gay-players/story-e6frfkvr-1225868921917

Side note... suicide amongest homosexuals is reported to be six times greater than avaerage. Food for thought...

JupiterKid

As a gay guy myself I laugh at the ignorance shown on this thread.:rolleyes: Of course there are gay professional soccer players - they are just not out - and for good reason.

Justin Fashanu and what happened him whan he had to sheer guts to come out 20 years ago has kept then in the closet. The culture of homophobia and in the football world is toxic to the idea of out players.

Being married means nothing - it's well known that sports players have got married to try to stop rumours. Look at the former Wales Rugby captain Gareth Thomas - he was married to his "childhood sweetheart" and he came out as gay last Christmas.

He also thought a lot about suicide. Because society is only learning now to accept gay people, it's no surprise so many have killed themselves.

It's also interesting that being an openly gay player seems to be less of an issue in GAA or Rugby than soccer. Why? Because mainly of the amount of scumbaggery and homophobia among soccer fans...:mad::(

Bodhisopha

JupiterKid wrote: »

As a gay guy myself I laugh at the ignorance shown on this thread.:rolleyes: Of course there are gay professional soccer players - they are just not out - and for good reason.

Justin Fashanu and what happened him whan he had to sheer guts to come out 20 years ago has kept then in the closet. The culture of homophobia and in the football world is toxic to the idea of out players.

Being married means nothing - it's well known that sports players have got married to try to stop rumours. Look at the former Wales Rugby captain Gareth Thomas - he was married to his "childhood sweetheart" and he came out as gay last Christmas.

He also thought a lot about suicide. Because society is only learning now to accept gay people, it's no surprise so many have killed themselves.

It's also interesting that being an openly gay player seems to be less of an issue in GAA or Rugby than soccer. Why? Because mainly of the amount of scumbaggery and homophobia among soccer fans...:mad::(

Are you saying Max Clifford paired Ashley Cole and Cheryl Tweedy to cover up his homosexuality and improve her public image after attacking that black toilet attendant?

That's a bold claim you're making.

bonerm

Bodhisopha wrote: »

I've heard rumours about Young and Bent.

There was rumours Ashley Cole was going to sign for Spurs in 2009 when he heard the forwards were Bent and Keane.

But enough of this accusing players of being homosexuals. One particular team at this years World Cup has repeatedly been accused of being gay and it's only made them even more determined to win matches.

minister poxbottle

Mick Daly wrote: »

Nah. John O'Shea got married last week I think. United fans won't be shouting "John O'Shea, You're gay" anymore!

unless he married john terry :pac:

pwd

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/889/cristianoronaldohomoero.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TErdBYYj_NQ/SQk5PXVnr-I/AAAAAAAABOQ/Duurb66vTg8/s400/drogba.jpg
http://www.startrip.tv/images/2007/09/27/9ir58i.jpg
http://habs.theoffside.com/files/2009/03/shaun-wright-phillips-photo-by-antonio-petronzio.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Kl7yL_h95qc/SZSTNrn1SwI/AAAAAAAAM3I/W6whv9ai0ac/s400/soccer+is+so+gay.jpg

ascanbe

bonerm wrote: »

There was rumours Ashley Cole was going to sign for Spurs in 2009 when he heard the forwards were Bent and Keane.

But enough of this accusing players of being homosexuals. One particular team at this years World Cup has repeatedly been accused of being gay and it's only made them even more determined to win matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwQdNyEFAA

drunkmonkey

Hank_Jones wrote: »

It's a very ''macho'' sport

it's about as gay as a sport can get and that's not being kind to gays as they don't deserve to be associated with such gayness they probably don't have much interest because it's so gay. Actually it's so gay it's not even gay it's just retarded.

It's also boring as ****, i'd rather be watching opera with my gay mates at least there's some boobs in it, boobs are also macho. There's no boobs in soccer therefore it's not macho. It's for sissies and boring *****.

Now Hurling, rugby, caber tossing, swimming, mountain biking, boxing, racing, to name but a few are real sports played by real men who are macho and can still be gay if they want to be cause it doesn't matter as there playing manly games.

Don't even get me started on women wearing man u jerseys, i'll be locked up!!

Bodhisopha

bonerm wrote: »

There was rumours Ashley Cole was going to sign for Spurs in 2009 when he heard the forwards were Bent and Keane.

But enough of this accusing players of being homosexuals. One particular team at this years World Cup has repeatedly been accused of being gay and it's only made them even more determined to win matches.

I heard he told his agent to sound out a move to United as he was eager to play with Feltcher.

Hank_Jones

pwd wrote: »

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/889/cristianoronaldohomoero.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TErdBYYj_NQ/SQk5PXVnr-I/AAAAAAAABOQ/Duurb66vTg8/s400/drogba.jpg
http://www.startrip.tv/images/2007/09/27/9ir58i.jpg
http://habs.theoffside.com/files/2009/03/shaun-wright-phillips-photo-by-antonio-petronzio.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Kl7yL_h95qc/SZSTNrn1SwI/AAAAAAAAM3I/W6whv9ai0ac/s400/soccer+is+so+gay.jpg

You could at least warn people what the pictures are of...

Feel a bit nauseous now.

starbelgrade

JupiterKid wrote: »

Because society is only learning now to accept gay people, it's no surprise so many have killed themselves.

It's also interesting that being an openly gay player seems to be less of an issue in GAA or Rugby than soccer. Why? Because mainly of the amount of scumbaggery and homophobia among soccer fans...:mad::(

To a certain extent, I would agree with most of what you say, but "scumbaggery & homophobia" in football has definitely decreased over the last 20 years - I know that from personal experience of having been a regular punter at football games in Ireland, England, The Netherlands & Spain.

You see all people from all walks of life at matches these days. Some would lament that fact, but to me it has definitely been for the greater good of the game & the support it garners.

There is still a small amount of thuggery - but it is just that.. a small amount. And you can't tar everyone else with the brush they hold

Soccer fans are also no more or less homophobic than any other people, though FIFA, who are very active at promoting equality for equal & fair treatment of all races at football matches are less so at promoting fair & equal treatment of gay players.

My feeling is, that with any sport that is mainly supported & played by male players, it will take just that little bit longer to become the norm to accept gay players, simply because of the "male bravado" element.

I know it's less of a problem in GAA - but GAA is also a very local sport where a lot more games are supported by families who go to games & there are also higher attendances by women to balance out all the testosterone.

pwd

Hank_Jones wrote: »

You could at least warn people what the pictures are of...

Feel a bit nauseous now.

pretty sure that only happens if you're a bit gay

ascanbe

drunkmonkey wrote: »

it's about as gay as a sport can get and that's not being kind to gays as they don't deserve to be associated with such gayness they probably don't have much interest because it's so gay. Actually it's so gay it's not even gay it's just retarded.

It's also boring as ****, i'd rather be watching opera with my gay mates at least there's some boobs in it, boobs are also macho. There's no boobs in soccer therefore it's not macho. It's for sissies and boring *****.

Now Hurling, rugby, caber tossing, swimming, mountain biking, boxing, racing, to name but a few are real sports played by real men who are macho and can still be gay if they want to be cause it doesn't matter as there playing manly games.

Don't even get me started on women wearing man u jerseys, i'll be locked up!!

Don't be silly; soccer is a great sport.
'Caber tossing', on the other hand(ahem), sounds positively flaming; not that this is a bad thing, necessarily.

Mick Daly

Shaun Wright-Phillips must have a small cock. Nothing between his legs!

fonecrusher1

pwd wrote: »

pretty sure that only happens if you're a bit gay

:D

So if he'd said mmm....luvly jubbly! that means?

oppenheimer1

Doop wrote: »

Seriously, recommending people stay in the closet is never going help anything. People should be taken on their skill at the game, not who they sleep with. (as long as someone wants to come out).

I know in reality this is not the case but we're never going to get anywhere if poeple think 'the gheys' should stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone.

An AFL player recently made similar comments and thankfully recieved a massive backlash from the media and public..
http://www.news.com.au/national/stay-in-the-closet-footballer-tells-gay-players/story-e6frfkvr-1225868921917

Side note... suicide amongest homosexuals is reported to be six times greater than avaerage. Food for thought...

I'm not saying its right. Clifford saying players should stay in the closet is not for the sake of not upsetting anyone but to protect their careers. Football is unforgiving and intolerant and Clifford is right, a single gay player coming out won't achieve anything in terms of changing minds. In fact all they'll do is kill their career. Maybe if a large enough group of players did it would.

A footballers sexuality is irrelevant anyway. There is no reason for them to come out publically.

pwd

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

:D

So if he'd said mmm....luvly jubbly! that means?

that means he's del boy

JupiterKid

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

A footballers sexuality is irrelevant anyway. There is no reason for them to come out publically.

If their sexuality is so irrelevant than why do the media fawn over and obsess with the WAGS of the soccer players? I don't get this argument that sexuality is irrelevant and thus should be private. Heterosexuality certainly isn't - it's in your face every day via the media, so why should a gay player keep his sexuality "private"? I just don't buy that argument.

To me it smacks of "stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone who might be offended but you can use the sexuality is no-one's business as an excuse."

Hank_Jones

pwd wrote: »

that means he's del boy

Mange tout, mange tout fromage frais.

ascanbe

JupiterKid wrote: »

If their sexuality is so irrelevant than why do the media fawn over and obsess with the WAGS of the soccer players? I don't get this argument that sexuality is irrelevant and thus should be private. Heterosexuality certainly isn't - it's in your face every day via the media, so why should a gay player keep his sexuality "private"? I just don't buy that argument.

To me it smacks of "stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone who might be offended but you can use the sexuality is no-one's business as an excuse."

A gay player shouldn't keep his sexuality hidden from the public, if he doesn't want to; nor should he feel compelled to come out to the public.
It would take a certain kind of personality to willingly deal with the sheer amount of attention, as well as possible negative reaction from some quarters, being the first well- known player to do so would elicit.
Someone will, eventually, i'm sure.

Bodhisopha

While i can understand why a player wouldn't want to come out during his career, i'm surprised none have come out after their career. None that are high profile anyways.

oppenheimer1

JupiterKid wrote: »

If their sexuality is so irrelevant than why do the media fawn over and obsess with the WAGS of the soccer players? I don't get this argument that sexuality is irrelevant and thus should be private. Heterosexuality certainly isn't - it's in your face every day via the media, so why should a gay player keep his sexuality "private"? I just don't buy that argument.

To me it smacks of "stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone who might be offended but you can use the sexuality is no-one's business as an excuse."

Their sexuality is irrelevant to whether they are any good on the pitch, yes? As for the WAGs the British press have created this "celebrity culture" around the players. The WAGs you refer to are only the pretty ones that fit with the "phwoar-I'd do her" image, and more importantly court the media. Sex sells to a heterosexual audience. There are plenty of players whos private lives are not discussed. How often did you see Roy Keanes wife in the papers when he was playing? Do you think that a paper publishing a photo of two gay players holding hands would sell? Most people cannot identify with that and wouldn't want to look at it. In fact if such a picture was printed the paper would be castigated for invasion of privacy.

I just can't see the logic in getting gay players to come out in the current climate.Yes things are better than 20 years ago and the papers these days wouldn't print homophobic comments. It will eventually come though, much like black players were accepted. One has just to look at how long it took for that to happen, this being despite there being many black players playing.

Dyr

Hank_Jones wrote: »

It's a very ''macho'' sport,

Soccer? Macho? lol

Unique User Name

Isn't Freddie Ljungberg openly gay?

I heard rumours about Sol Campbell a few years ago but I don't know how true they are.

Still "Camp" "Bell" hardly a coincidence

JupiterKid

This is an issue that shouldn't even be up for debate. It's high time that footballers came out. It's the only way vile scumbag homophobia in the terraces, the locker rooms and the club boardrooms will be tackled.

The degree to which football is behind other sports let alone society in general on the issue of openly gay players is breathtaking.:(

Excellent article here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/10/can-gay-footballers-come-out

Trashbat

This is a very interesting and very improtant subject for world football today, and something the game needs to tackle head on.

Comparing it with other sports is interesting, and i'd like to point out a couple of things about some cases that have been previously brought up in the thread.

-Gareth Thomas. Important to note that he only came out after his career was finished. Rugby carries a bizarre combination of Machoness and homoeroticism (highlighted by drinking games such as "dance of the flaming arseholes" and various "insertions" i witnessed while working in a rugby club bar - all in the name of banter apparently). I would think that the rugby fanbase wouldn't necessarily be the problem, but the players might be, which makes coming out fine after retirement.

- Donal Óg. It must be remembered, that in terms of GAA politics, this guy is one of the most important and influential players still active in the game. I seriously wonder what the reaction would have been if it had been a lesser player?
Saying that Donal Óg's sexuality was one of the worst kept secrets in the game, so it was not so much as a coming out, but more of a marketing ply to sell books.


I think the main reason that being gay is a problem in football is that it is the best supported game (certainly in the UK, and probably in Ireland now among younger people). This means it is far more representative of the working classes and uneducated masses, meaning homophobic attitudes are more prevalent. It also suffers from having better support, in the sense of fans being vocal. A big thing about watching football live, is the creative chants and stadium atmosphere. This does not transfer to Rugby or GAA. In football, while this supporter culture can be intelligent, witty and enhance the experience, it can also have very negative connotations: Racism in the past, Liverpool fans singing about Munich 58, and examples like Spurs fans singing about Sol Campbell - managing to be homophobic, Racist and intolerant of mental illness all in one. Horrible.

Bottom line is, FIFA need to act on this, the media need to not make an issue of it and people like max clifford need to stop advising(or forcing) people into hiding their true self.