Coming Out in the World of Soccer

ascanbe · 24-06-2010 02:39AM

bonerm wrote: »

There was rumours Ashley Cole was going to sign for Spurs in 2009 when he heard the forwards were Bent and Keane.

But enough of this accusing players of being homosexuals. One particular team at this years World Cup has repeatedly been accused of being gay and it's only made them even more determined to win matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwQdNyEFAA

drunkmonkey · 24-06-2010 02:43AM

Hank_Jones wrote: »

It's a very ''macho'' sport

it's about as gay as a sport can get and that's not being kind to gays as they don't deserve to be associated with such gayness they probably don't have much interest because it's so gay. Actually it's so gay it's not even gay it's just retarded.

It's also boring as ****, i'd rather be watching opera with my gay mates at least there's some boobs in it, boobs are also macho. There's no boobs in soccer therefore it's not macho. It's for sissies and boring *****.

Now Hurling, rugby, caber tossing, swimming, mountain biking, boxing, racing, to name but a few are real sports played by real men who are macho and can still be gay if they want to be cause it doesn't matter as there playing manly games.

Don't even get me started on women wearing man u jerseys, i'll be locked up!!

Bodhisopha · 24-06-2010 02:44AM

bonerm wrote: »

There was rumours Ashley Cole was going to sign for Spurs in 2009 when he heard the forwards were Bent and Keane.

But enough of this accusing players of being homosexuals. One particular team at this years World Cup has repeatedly been accused of being gay and it's only made them even more determined to win matches.

I heard he told his agent to sound out a move to United as he was eager to play with Feltcher.

Hank_Jones · 24-06-2010 02:44AM

pwd wrote: »

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/889/cristianoronaldohomoero.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TErdBYYj_NQ/SQk5PXVnr-I/AAAAAAAABOQ/Duurb66vTg8/s400/drogba.jpg
http://www.startrip.tv/images/2007/09/27/9ir58i.jpg
http://habs.theoffside.com/files/2009/03/shaun-wright-phillips-photo-by-antonio-petronzio.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Kl7yL_h95qc/SZSTNrn1SwI/AAAAAAAAM3I/W6whv9ai0ac/s400/soccer+is+so+gay.jpg

You could at least warn people what the pictures are of...

Feel a bit nauseous now.

starbelgrade · 24-06-2010 02:45AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Because society is only learning now to accept gay people, it's no surprise so many have killed themselves.

It's also interesting that being an openly gay player seems to be less of an issue in GAA or Rugby than soccer. Why? Because mainly of the amount of scumbaggery and homophobia among soccer fans...:mad::(

To a certain extent, I would agree with most of what you say, but "scumbaggery & homophobia" in football has definitely decreased over the last 20 years - I know that from personal experience of having been a regular punter at football games in Ireland, England, The Netherlands & Spain.

You see all people from all walks of life at matches these days. Some would lament that fact, but to me it has definitely been for the greater good of the game & the support it garners.

There is still a small amount of thuggery - but it is just that.. a small amount. And you can't tar everyone else with the brush they hold

Soccer fans are also no more or less homophobic than any other people, though FIFA, who are very active at promoting equality for equal & fair treatment of all races at football matches are less so at promoting fair & equal treatment of gay players.

My feeling is, that with any sport that is mainly supported & played by male players, it will take just that little bit longer to become the norm to accept gay players, simply because of the "male bravado" element.

I know it's less of a problem in GAA - but GAA is also a very local sport where a lot more games are supported by families who go to games & there are also higher attendances by women to balance out all the testosterone.

pwd · 24-06-2010 02:46AM

Hank_Jones wrote: »

You could at least warn people what the pictures are of...

Feel a bit nauseous now.

pretty sure that only happens if you're a bit gay

ascanbe · 24-06-2010 02:50AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

it's about as gay as a sport can get and that's not being kind to gays as they don't deserve to be associated with such gayness they probably don't have much interest because it's so gay. Actually it's so gay it's not even gay it's just retarded.

It's also boring as ****, i'd rather be watching opera with my gay mates at least there's some boobs in it, boobs are also macho. There's no boobs in soccer therefore it's not macho. It's for sissies and boring *****.

Now Hurling, rugby, caber tossing, swimming, mountain biking, boxing, racing, to name but a few are real sports played by real men who are macho and can still be gay if they want to be cause it doesn't matter as there playing manly games.

Don't even get me started on women wearing man u jerseys, i'll be locked up!!

Don't be silly; soccer is a great sport.
'Caber tossing', on the other hand(ahem), sounds positively flaming; not that this is a bad thing, necessarily.

Mick Daly · 24-06-2010 02:50AM

Shaun Wright-Phillips must have a small cock. Nothing between his legs!

fonecrusher1 · 24-06-2010 02:52AM

pwd wrote: »

pretty sure that only happens if you're a bit gay

:D

So if he'd said mmm....luvly jubbly! that means?

oppenheimer1 · 24-06-2010 02:53AM

Doop wrote: »

Seriously, recommending people stay in the closet is never going help anything. People should be taken on their skill at the game, not who they sleep with. (as long as someone wants to come out).

I know in reality this is not the case but we're never going to get anywhere if poeple think 'the gheys' should stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone.

An AFL player recently made similar comments and thankfully recieved a massive backlash from the media and public..
http://www.news.com.au/national/stay-in-the-closet-footballer-tells-gay-players/story-e6frfkvr-1225868921917

Side note... suicide amongest homosexuals is reported to be six times greater than avaerage. Food for thought...

I'm not saying its right. Clifford saying players should stay in the closet is not for the sake of not upsetting anyone but to protect their careers. Football is unforgiving and intolerant and Clifford is right, a single gay player coming out won't achieve anything in terms of changing minds. In fact all they'll do is kill their career. Maybe if a large enough group of players did it would.

A footballers sexuality is irrelevant anyway. There is no reason for them to come out publically.

pwd · 24-06-2010 02:54AM

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

:D

So if he'd said mmm....luvly jubbly! that means?

that means he's del boy

JupiterKid · 24-06-2010 02:59AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

A footballers sexuality is irrelevant anyway. There is no reason for them to come out publically.

If their sexuality is so irrelevant than why do the media fawn over and obsess with the WAGS of the soccer players? I don't get this argument that sexuality is irrelevant and thus should be private. Heterosexuality certainly isn't - it's in your face every day via the media, so why should a gay player keep his sexuality "private"? I just don't buy that argument.

To me it smacks of "stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone who might be offended but you can use the sexuality is no-one's business as an excuse."

Hank_Jones · 24-06-2010 03:03AM

pwd wrote: »

that means he's del boy

Mange tout, mange tout fromage frais.

ascanbe · 24-06-2010 03:08AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

If their sexuality is so irrelevant than why do the media fawn over and obsess with the WAGS of the soccer players? I don't get this argument that sexuality is irrelevant and thus should be private. Heterosexuality certainly isn't - it's in your face every day via the media, so why should a gay player keep his sexuality "private"? I just don't buy that argument.

To me it smacks of "stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone who might be offended but you can use the sexuality is no-one's business as an excuse."

A gay player shouldn't keep his sexuality hidden from the public, if he doesn't want to; nor should he feel compelled to come out to the public.
It would take a certain kind of personality to willingly deal with the sheer amount of attention, as well as possible negative reaction from some quarters, being the first well- known player to do so would elicit.
Someone will, eventually, i'm sure.

Bodhisopha · 24-06-2010 03:12AM

While i can understand why a player wouldn't want to come out during his career, i'm surprised none have come out after their career. None that are high profile anyways.

oppenheimer1 · 24-06-2010 03:14AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

If their sexuality is so irrelevant than why do the media fawn over and obsess with the WAGS of the soccer players? I don't get this argument that sexuality is irrelevant and thus should be private. Heterosexuality certainly isn't - it's in your face every day via the media, so why should a gay player keep his sexuality "private"? I just don't buy that argument.

To me it smacks of "stay in the closet so as not to upset anyone who might be offended but you can use the sexuality is no-one's business as an excuse."

Their sexuality is irrelevant to whether they are any good on the pitch, yes? As for the WAGs the British press have created this "celebrity culture" around the players. The WAGs you refer to are only the pretty ones that fit with the "phwoar-I'd do her" image, and more importantly court the media. Sex sells to a heterosexual audience. There are plenty of players whos private lives are not discussed. How often did you see Roy Keanes wife in the papers when he was playing? Do you think that a paper publishing a photo of two gay players holding hands would sell? Most people cannot identify with that and wouldn't want to look at it. In fact if such a picture was printed the paper would be castigated for invasion of privacy.

I just can't see the logic in getting gay players to come out in the current climate.Yes things are better than 20 years ago and the papers these days wouldn't print homophobic comments. It will eventually come though, much like black players were accepted. One has just to look at how long it took for that to happen, this being despite there being many black players playing.

Dyr · 24-06-2010 08:47AM

Hank_Jones wrote: »

It's a very ''macho'' sport,

Soccer? Macho? lol

Unique User Name · 24-06-2010 09:14AM

Isn't Freddie Ljungberg openly gay?

I heard rumours about Sol Campbell a few years ago but I don't know how true they are.

Still "Camp" "Bell" hardly a coincidence

JupiterKid · 24-06-2010 09:26AM

This is an issue that shouldn't even be up for debate. It's high time that footballers came out. It's the only way vile scumbag homophobia in the terraces, the locker rooms and the club boardrooms will be tackled.

The degree to which football is behind other sports let alone society in general on the issue of openly gay players is breathtaking.:(

Excellent article here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/10/can-gay-footballers-come-out

Trashbat · 24-06-2010 09:31AM

This is a very interesting and very improtant subject for world football today, and something the game needs to tackle head on.

Comparing it with other sports is interesting, and i'd like to point out a couple of things about some cases that have been previously brought up in the thread.

-Gareth Thomas. Important to note that he only came out after his career was finished. Rugby carries a bizarre combination of Machoness and homoeroticism (highlighted by drinking games such as "dance of the flaming arseholes" and various "insertions" i witnessed while working in a rugby club bar - all in the name of banter apparently). I would think that the rugby fanbase wouldn't necessarily be the problem, but the players might be, which makes coming out fine after retirement.

- Donal Óg. It must be remembered, that in terms of GAA politics, this guy is one of the most important and influential players still active in the game. I seriously wonder what the reaction would have been if it had been a lesser player?
Saying that Donal Óg's sexuality was one of the worst kept secrets in the game, so it was not so much as a coming out, but more of a marketing ply to sell books.

I think the main reason that being gay is a problem in football is that it is the best supported game (certainly in the UK, and probably in Ireland now among younger people). This means it is far more representative of the working classes and uneducated masses, meaning homophobic attitudes are more prevalent. It also suffers from having better support, in the sense of fans being vocal. A big thing about watching football live, is the creative chants and stadium atmosphere. This does not transfer to Rugby or GAA. In football, while this supporter culture can be intelligent, witty and enhance the experience, it can also have very negative connotations: Racism in the past, Liverpool fans singing about Munich 58, and examples like Spurs fans singing about Sol Campbell - managing to be homophobic, Racist and intolerant of mental illness all in one. Horrible.

Bottom line is, FIFA need to act on this, the media need to not make an issue of it and people like max clifford need to stop advising(or forcing) people into hiding their true self.

The Davestator · 24-06-2010 09:45AM

FIFA need to sort out players diving and crap referrees and THEN they can have a look at gays if they want.

rovert · 24-06-2010 10:22AM

alwaysadub wrote: »

Does anyone really care tbh?
If someone stops supporting their team cos a player is gay,well then, they're a sap

^ Head in sand

When I brought this many soccer fans got into a tissy trying to defend it.

magotch07 · 24-06-2010 10:24AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

It's also interesting that being an openly gay player seems to be less of an issue in GAA or Rugby than soccer. Why? Because mainly of the amount of scumbaggery and homophobia among soccer fans...:mad::(

i think you hit the nail on the head here....someone mentioned earlier is it because its a macho sport that its hard to come bull**** football is the least macho sport going (players feining injury throwing themselves to the ground at any sign of physical contact ) soccer fans are the main reason why a player would not come out followed closely by other players reactions

the rugby club i play for has a gay player there is never an issue with him and the club would never allow an issue to arise either

i think the clubs have alot of work to do in order create a culture which is i suppose gay friendly

rovert · 24-06-2010 10:30AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'm not saying its right. Clifford saying players should stay in the closet is not for the sake of not upsetting anyone but to protect their careers. Football is unforgiving and intolerant and Clifford is right, a single gay player coming out won't achieve anything in terms of changing minds. In fact all they'll do is kill their career. Maybe if a large enough group of players did it would.

A footballers sexuality is irrelevant anyway. There is no reason for them to come out publically.

Nice contradiction between the two paragraphs there.

pickarooney · 24-06-2010 11:09AM

Mick Daly wrote: »

One point that Clarke Carlisle of Burnley made in the documentary was the changing rooms.

He said that if he were in a shower with 20 fit burds then he would be getting 'ard. So most other fellas would assume the gay man would get 'ard at the sight of a load of fit lads in the shower.

And this is the man with the official accrediation of Most Intelligent Footballer in Britain.

tommyhaas · 24-06-2010 11:16AM

In general, I reckon homophobia in football fans is far more prevelant then with Rugby/GAA fans. Football grounds are harsh place, any player comming out is going to get an awful time off away fans. After 30 years of awareness campaigning, racism is still widespread at grounds, I cant see that being any different with homophobia

Another point wrt a high profile footballer comming out is that I believe his value would drop considerably. Football clubs are business's, and the big fees paid for players (eg Ronaldo 80mill) are paid because the club, Real Madrid in this case, believe they'l make money off the merchandising. Should such a player come-out, I reckon far less people in stadiums and school yards would be wearing Ronaldo jerseys/merchandise, hence reducig the value of Real Madrids asset

Trashbat · 24-06-2010 11:36AM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Another point wrt a high profile footballer comming out is that I believe his value would drop considerably. Football clubs are business's, and the big fees paid for players (eg Ronaldo 80mill) are paid because the club, Real Madrid in this case, believe they'l make money off the merchandising. Should such a player come-out, I reckon far less people in stadiums and school yards would be wearing Ronaldo jerseys/merchandise, hence reducig the value of Real Madrids asset

Really? One of the most marketable qualities of Brand Beckham is his status as a gay icon. The Pink pound equates to a large market share, and a pioneer in the sport would provide huge revenue. There's a massive level of media aimed at LGBT people which footballers traditionally shy away from, meaning one player coming out qould have pretty much exclusive access to a market.

bonerm · 24-06-2010 11:43AM

Trashbat wrote: »

Really? One of the most marketable qualities of Brand Beckham is his status as a gay icon. The Pink pound equates to a large market share, and a pioneer in the sport would provide huge revenue. There's a massive level of media aimed at LGBT people which footballers traditionally shy away from, meaning one player coming out qould have pretty much exclusive access to a market.

Yeah but Beckhams marketability would drop if he was gay. As it is he can get the best of all worlds ...earn the pink pound , earn off women who fancy him, kids who want to be him and straight blokes who think he's a deadly footballer. If he came out he'd definitely lose the 4th group, and possibly the 2nd and 3rd as well.

aDeener · 24-06-2010 11:43AM

bloody hell the way some are going on here you would swear there are tens of thousands of soccer players wanting to come out but are not being let. no one here should be telling them what they should or should not do, it is up to them if they wish to come out or not. entirely their choice, not the militants on here.

aDeener · 24-06-2010 11:47AM

Mick Daly wrote: »

I know Mr.Carragher is marret. I was just proposing that if some super world class legend like himself came out how would people react.

you must be on the wind up?

Coming Out in the World of Soccer

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