Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Jamie2k9

Rabbitt wrote: »

Will there be a point where a tram on the red line can cross over to the green line and continue north or south?
Also would the red line be getting larger trams too and extended platforms?

No (vert unlikely to ever happen) and No

MJohnston

Rabbitt wrote: »

Will there be a point where a tram on the red line can cross over to the green line and continue north or south?
Also would the red line be getting larger trams too and extended platforms?

The first question has been answered a few dozen times on this thread, in fact it's covered on this very page!

mrsdewinter

This is week-old news (at least) but it's great to see actual tracks when my bus passes over the new Luas line at Cabra Road. It's on the section towards Broombridge, so on your left as you head towards town. Only a section of track - but still!

MrMorooka

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2016/10/18/is-the-city-running-out-of-time/

Good article about the mess that is the planning for how traffic will work in the city once BXD launches.

Yet arguably the most important and sensitive transport planning project in the state – the redesign of the capital’s city-centre no less – appears to be running on a shoestring.

Dardania

MrMorooka wrote: »

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2016/10/18/is-the-city-running-out-of-time/

Good article about the mess that is the planning for how traffic will work in the city once BXD launches.

Yet arguably the most important and sensitive transport planning project in the state the redesign of the capital s city-centre no less appears to be running on a shoestring.

Not-hugely-tangible work like this doesn't get funding - until there's a problem. Also it's done so rarely on this scale that maybe consultants is the proper route to go. As it must be tough on staff to keep motivated if they're underfunded and ignored.

Not in the least projecting my irritation on them!

We survived with intergtation of the current green line - I'm sure it'll be figured out in time for the rest of the city. Might take a few iterations of course to improve.

AngryLips

MrMorooka wrote: »

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2016/10/18/is-the-city-running-out-of-time/

Good article about the mess that is the planning for how traffic will work in the city once BXD launches.

To answer the question in the article, the reason why this traffic planning is happening after construction has been approved and started is because to do so beforehand would no doubt trigger a tsunami of objections, inputs and feedbacks from vested interests like said car park owners. It would create the potential for the plan to never see the light of day. Does nobody remember the first time we tried to connect the two Luas lines? Didn't we already know the reason for the fuzziness around traffic management in advance of any turf being turned at the start of this project? In my opinion, it was smart political move and those car park owners are waking up to the fact that they have been hoodwinked.

Muahahaha

If a Luas is travelling down Dawson Street with an empty taxi driving directly in front of it and someone on the Luas platform hails the taxi and they stop to pick up then is the taxi breaking any current laws in the RTA? i.e. is it legally possible for a taxi driving on tram tracks to pick up a fare? Only if there is no tram behind or not at all?

MJohnston

Muahahaha wrote: »

If a Luas is travelling down Dawson Street with an empty taxi driving directly in front of it and someone on the Luas platform hails the taxi and they stop to pick up then is the taxi breaking any current laws in the RTA? i.e. is it legally possible for a taxi driving on tram tracks to pick up a fare? Only if there is no tram behind or not at all?

Probably a number of laws could cover it - depending on whether it was interpreted as 'parking' or not. There would only be one northbound traffic lane for example, presumably with a solid white line in the middle, which would mean 'parking' anywhere there would be illegal. If there were designated taxi bays nearby it'd be illegal (and I believe there will be).

I don't know how strictly the term 'parking' is adhered to. That said, even if there was a law, it wouldn't matter to most taxi drivers in most cases. I'd like to think even then that most of them wouldn't be selfish enough to stop at a Luas stop.

Besides which, it'd be a terrible place to get into a taxi, as most of the platforms are raised a good distance above the road surface.

markpb

MJohnston wrote:

Probably a number of laws could cover it - depending on whether it was interpreted as 'parking' or not. There would only be one northbound traffic lane for example, presumably with a solid white line in the middle, which would mean 'parking' anywhere there would be illegal. If there were designated taxi bays nearby it'd be illegal (and I believe there will be).

A taxi stopping to picking up passengers is not parking. A clearway sign with exclusion for trams would do the trick.

loyatemu

Luas driver would lean on the horn immediately, this is what they do when someone blocks their way on the shared section in the IFSC.

eminoz

Hi all, I've not been active here but as a local Broadstone resident have been following all posts - thanks all!

Now, can you help us to get the layout at the Broadstone station changed and sign the petition here? There's an ugly concrete wall now obscuring the view of the station - we had understood that the public view of the building would be restored for the first time in decades (more?)

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-sublime-obscured-an-irishman-s-diary-on-the-once-great-vista-of-broadstone-station-1.2830370

https://www.change.org/p/luas-cross-city-project-demanding-luas-cross-city-project-to-remove-wall-obscuring-broadstone-development?recruiter=108398450&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-reason_msg

All sharing would be much appreciated, thanks!

LeinsterDub

eminoz wrote: »

All sharing would be much appreciated, thanks!

I assume that wall was in the plan application why not object then?

markpb

LeinsterDub wrote:

I assume that wall was in the plan application why not object then?

Why do people post unhelpful stuff like this? Maybe they didn't see it in the planning permission, maybe it wasn't obvious how much of a visible impact it would have. The article says that glass or railings were initially considered so perhaps the planning permission was subsequently amended? There are lots of reasons why people are only objecting now. Maybe it's not the perfect way to do things but there's no way a project the size of LCC is being built without a few amendments along the way.

eminoz

Thanks for letting a non-light rail/planning expert off lightly here. I wasn't the only one who missed this detail - everyone did, apparently, as it was unclear. (Does a concrete wall equate with a guardrail?) Just to clarify, here's the detail -

https://www.facebook.com/PHIZZFEST/photos/a.10150182707396709.297288.261526841708/10153999556231709/?type=3&theater

jamo2oo9

eminoz wrote: »

Thanks for letting a non-light rail/planning expert off lightly here. I wasn't the only one who missed this detail - everyone did, apparently, as it was unclear. (Does a concrete wall equate with a guardrail?) Just to clarify, here's the detail -

https://www.facebook.com/PHIZZFEST/photos/a.10150182707396709.297288.261526841708/10153999556231709/?type=3&theater

Regardless of what will be used in the space behind the wall, you have to consider that it'll be acting as a retaining wall. I'm no structural engineer but I don't think a wall is completely necessary to hip height at that level but it definitely needs to finish off above level (approx 2/300mm) and a guard rail to the appropriate height.

Carawaystick

Why would a retaining wall need to finish any higher than flush with the top surface?

lawred2

MJohnston wrote: »

The first question has been answered a few dozen times on this thread, in fact it's covered on this very page!

There is a point at Abbey Street where the tracks will allow for trams going from one line to the other

stevedublin

lawred2 wrote: »

There is a point at Abbey Street where the tracks will allow for trams going from one line to the other

I noticed at O'Connell street/Abbey Street junction where a piece of curved track connected the two lines

Muahahaha

With opening pencilled in for December 2017 can anyone hazard a guess when the main bulk of the works might be finished with and roadways taken back?

ongarboy

http://www.luascrosscity.ie/whats-the-plan/timeline/

This gives you a general timeline but it seems they've given themselves from mid 2015 until Sep 2017 to allow for full completion of track laying and road and footpath reinstatement. Obviously this can mean some areas will be completed months before others.

Muahahaha

Seems they are allowing up until September 2017 for the main infrastructure works to be finished. Hopefully it turns out a bit quicker than that, Im starting to get works fatigue with all the disruptions. Really wish Dublin Bus had of looked at an alternative to using OConnell St during the works, its a total logjam most days up to Parnell Square

MJohnston

They'll have to slow down a lot over Christmas (though hopefully they're able to accelerate the outer city works at that point) in the CC, as they had to over Easter this year. Suspect it'd go a lot quicker otherwise.

Sierra Oscar

MJohnston wrote: »

They'll have to slow down a lot over Christmas (though hopefully they're able to accelerate the outer city works at that point) in the CC, as they had to over Easter this year. Suspect it'd go a lot quicker otherwise.

A lot of that slow down was in anticipation of the Easter Rising commemorations though, right? I would have thought they will continue the works right up until Christmas this year.

Dardania

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

They'll have to slow down a lot over Christmas (though hopefully they're able to accelerate the outer city works at that point) in the CC, as they had to over Easter this year. Suspect it'd go a lot quicker otherwise.

A lot of that slow down was in anticipation of the Easter Rising commemorations though, right? I would have thought they will continue the works right up until Christmas this year.

Is Operation Freeflow still a thing?

MJohnston

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

A lot of that slow down was in anticipation of the Easter Rising commemorations though, right? I would have thought they will continue the works right up until Christmas this year.

Nope - http://www.luascrosscity.ie/news/luas-cross-city-works-2016-christmas-schedule/

Sierra Oscar

MJohnston wrote: »

Nope - http://www.luascrosscity.ie/news/luas-cross-city-works-2016-christmas-schedule/

Ah cool. At least we will have some relief from the roadworks in the run up to the holidays. I wonder if they will shift the resources elsewhere?

Dardania wrote: »

Is Operation Freeflow still a thing?

Nah it hasn't been in operation since 2011.

Chivito550

I had assumed that when the cross city is finished that the time it would take to go from Stephen's Green to O'Connoll St GPO (3 stops) around 5-6 minutes (2 mins per stop, accounting for the short distances between stops) and around 10 minutes to Dominick. Maybe 1-2 minutes extra going southbound due to the longer route.

I was watching a cross city presentation and Q&A thing on YouTube yesterday though and the guy suggested 7-8 minutes will be the time it takes to reach the red line interchange. Is it just me or is this very slow? I can walk it in 12 minutes.

I was in the Woolshed for the NFL yesterday and was thinking it would be handy that the LUAS will go pretty much straight there this time next year, but if these predicted times are correct I'll probably nearly as quick just walking from Stephen's Green to there than staying on the LUAS as far as Dominick.

In the event that I end up working north of the Liffey in the future, I like the idea of having the option to cycle to the LUAS or walk 20 mins and then be in the city centre from Ballaly in what I assumed would be about 23 mins or so. But hearing that the LUAS will be sharing roads with buses and taxis is worrying. Albeit on a different road, the 16 bus is misery in the morning. I'm lucky that I get off at Camden St because it takes about 15 minutes to reach O'Connoll St from there. I assumed the LUAS would be quicker covering this kind of distance through town but now I'm starting to wonder. Will we be seeing trams crawling through traffic on Dawson St and Nassau St?

1huge1

It is going through the city centre so it will be going rather slow, considering the amount of buses, pedestrians and motorists it will have to share the route with.

I would imagine it won't be used for short (relatively) hops like you mentioned above but more for commuting from the likes of Broombridge into the city and beyond as well as for transfers for green to red. Happy to be proved wrong but those slow trams would hinder the attractiveness of it.

LeinsterDub

Chivito550 wrote: »

I was watching a cross city presentation and Q&A thing on YouTube yesterday though and the guy suggested 7-8 minutes will be the time it takes to reach the red line interchange. Is it just me or is this very slow? I can walk it in 12 minutes.

Speed limit of 30kph will apply, then you've speed up and down coming into the stops and finally dwell time

Chivito550

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Speed limit of 30kph will apply, then you've speed up and down coming into the stops and finally dwell time

Where in the city centre do you think it will get up to 30kph?

I'm guessing after Stephen's Green it will crawl at 10kph negotiating 2 corners and will only hit 30 when on Dawson St, though if it is sharing that road with buses and taxis then it will probably be 20 max. Then another corner to crawl at 10 at onto Nassau St and it will probably stay at 10 until it has passed the next corner and is at College Green. It may hit 30 on Westmoreland and O'Connoll St.

How many lights will it have to stop at between Stephen's Green and Dominick?