Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

MJohnston

This might have been something discussed earlier in this thread, but has the extension of Luas beyond Broombridge ever been given serious consideration? I notice that Dublin 11 (such as Hollywoodrath) has become a growth area for suburban residential homes, but seems to be one of the few M50-adjacent suburbs without any nearby rapid transport options. I'd be surprised if there hasn't been thoughts of extending the line this way.

D.L.R.

MJohnston wrote: »

This might have been something discussed earlier in this thread, but has the extension of Luas beyond Broombridge ever been given serious consideration? I notice that Dublin 11 (such as Hollywoodrath) has become a growth area for suburban residential homes, but seems to be one of the few M50-adjacent suburbs without any nearby rapid transport options. I'd be surprised if there hasn't been thoughts of extending the line this way.

Options for extending the green line were looked at in conjunction with the latest Metro Review.

The current thinking is that it the green line will be extended out toward Finglas.. some day. But even that's just a vague notion.

Beyond Finglas we're into the realm of science fiction.

Metro West was supposed to go near enough to Holywoodrath. But again, science fiction.

cgcsb

The FG cheapo metro north is still in fiction land and will most likely become an election issue in 2021. So you'd best not worry yourself over other extensions.

It remains to be seen if the Maynooth line will be electrified in 10 years time.

cgcsb

The FG cheapo metro north is still in fiction land and will most likely become an election issue in 2021. So you'd best not worry yourself over other extensions.

It remains to be seen if the Maynooth line will be electrified in 10 years time.

JupiterKid

The Maynooth line should have been electrified for the DART years ago. It is crying out to have improvements in frequency.

D.L.R.

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Maynooth line should have been electrified for the DART years ago. It is crying out to have improvements in frequency.

Agreed, what a massive waste of capacity in a city crying out for it. Could've had branches off it too, to serve the north and west of the city. In a parallel universe..

LXFlyer

I'm not sure why you think electrifying the line is going to increase frequency or capacity?

The only way capacity can be increased on the line is by eliminating the level crossings, which, in one particular case (Coolmine) is being vehemently opposed by local interests.

MJohnston

Maynooth electrification isn't really going to do a great deal for the lands between the N2 and N3 is it?

And yes, I realise a Luas extension beyond Finglas would be fantasy stuff, but I'm still interested in reading any plans there might have been for that.

cgcsb

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think electrifying the line is going to increase frequency or capacity?

The only way capacity can be increased on the line is by eliminating the level crossings, which, in one particular case (Coolmine) is being vehemently opposed by local interests.

I would have assumed a program of electrification would also involve closing crossings and other associated works.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

I would have assumed a program of electrification would also involve closing crossings and other associated works.

Yes it would, but it is not essential to increase frequency.
That can still happen using the diesel fleet.

The main stumbling block is the level crossings on the route.

Pete_Cavan

MJohnston wrote: »

Maynooth electrification isn't really going to do a great deal for the lands between the N2 and N3 is it?

Should we even care about the lands between the N2 and N3? Isn’t this the crux of the problem we have, development should have been focused along rail lines and not in random fields. Having said that, in the case of the Maynooth line, most of the population does live within a reasonable distance from the line, we should be upgrading the line to serve these established areas before we even consider sending public transport to outlying fields being developed in an unsustainable fashion. We really need to stop building new suburbs and then trying to figure out how to serve them with public transport once we realise there isn’t space for these new commuters on our already jammed roads. The lands between the N2 and N3 should be bottom of the public transport priority list (and therefore near the bottom of the list of places for substantial new residential development). If the Green Line ever gets as far as Finglas, that will be good enough.

Idbatterim

in terms of BXD, what happens when their are protests outside the GPO etc or even on Kildare Street, which may effect the line on Dawson street, will these be banned in these locations? Or will the line simply shut down?!

MJohnston

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Should we even care about the lands between the N2 and N3? Isn’t this the crux of the problem we have, development should have been focused along rail lines and not in random fields. [..] We really need to stop building new suburbs and then trying to figure out how to serve them with public transport once we realise there isn’t space for these new commuters on our already jammed roads. The lands between the N2 and N3 should be bottom of the public transport priority list (and therefore near the bottom of the list of places for substantial new residential development).

The problem is the development has already occurred, sans the requisite transport infrastructure, and now with the inner-M50 zone suffering from a massive undersupply of housing, a lot of these places are going to continue to be popular for development. I *agree* with the premise that it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but it already has.

MJohnston

Idbatterim wrote: »

in terms of BXD, what happens when their are protests outside the GPO etc or even on Kildare Street, which may effect the line on Dawson street, will these be banned in these locations? Or will the line simply shut down?!

Turnback at Stephens Green, and another just before Dominick Street. All stations between these would presumably be closed, similar to the impact on the Red Line any time there's a protest or parade.

AngryLips

D.L.R. wrote: »

Agreed, what a massive waste of capacity in a city crying out for it. Could've had branches off it too, to serve the north and west of the city. In a parallel universe..

Where were you when they built the Dunboyne spur?

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

in terms of BXD, what happens when their are protests outside the GPO etc or even on Kildare Street, which may effect the line on Dawson street, will these be banned in these locations? Or will the line simply shut down?!

Same as at present luas will terminate at turn arounds at Smithfield, Conolly, Stephen's Green and Dominick St.

D.L.R.

AngryLips wrote: »

Where were you when they built the Dunboyne spur?

Dunboyne spur is a semi rural stub. I'm talking about branching within the city proper. Historic bad planning makes that impossible though, on the surface at least.

cgcsb

D.L.R. wrote: »

Dunboyne spur is a semi rural stub. I'm talking about branching within the city proper. Historic bad planning makes that impossible though, on the surface at least.

That's not entirely true, if we had DARTu + electrification across the GDA, it'd be very easy to:

-build a spur from Navan Road Parkway to James Connolly Hospital, Blanchardstown Centre Damastown/IBM and then join back onto the existing railway at Dunboyne, creating a sort of rail loop around Blanchardstown, or indeed just cease servicing the Clonsilla-Dunboyne stretch.

-Build a spur from the proposed Inchicore DART station through industrial lands, Across the M50 and then on an elevated section along the Belgard road into Tallaght, giving Tallaght a frequent heavy rail service with a circa 20 minute journey time into town

DARTu made it possible to do all these things alas it's been FGed.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

That's not entirely true, if we had DARTu + electrification across the GDA, it'd be very easy to:

-build a spur from Navan Road Parkway to James Connolly Hospital, Blanchardstown Centre Damastown/IBM and then join back onto the existing railway at Dunboyne, creating a sort of rail loop around Blanchardstown, or indeed just cease servicing the Clonsilla-Dunboyne stretch.

-Build a spur from the proposed Inchicore DART station through industrial lands, Across the M50 and then on an elevated section along the Belgard road into Tallaght, giving Tallaght a frequent heavy rail service with a circa 20 minute journey time into town

DARTu made it possible to do all these things alas it's been FGed.

There would be also limit to the number of spurs given that you need to increase frequency on the core Maynooth-City Centre route. Remember - it's a simple two track railway.

cgcsb

lxflyer wrote: »

There would be also limit to the number of spurs given that you need to increase frequency on the core Maynooth-City Centre route. Remember - it's a simple two track railway.

True, at present we have trains approximately every 20 mins to Maynooth, with electrification, removal of level crossings and DARTunderground there's an awful lot more capacity to go adding spurs where needed. I'd argue a line through Blanchardstown parallel to the N3, with good pedestrian links to the Hospital,shopping centre, Mulhuddart area and Damastown would be the most beneficial

mackerski

cgcsb wrote: »

True, at present we have trains approximately every 20 mins to Maynooth,

This must be some different Maynooth. If that were true I would never see the inside of a bus.

cgcsb

mackerski wrote: »

This must be some different Maynooth. If that were true I would never see the inside of a bus.

Thats waht Irish Rail's timetable says Connolly to Maynooth.

mackerski

cgcsb wrote: »

Thats waht Irish Rail's timetable says Connolly to Maynooth.

At the height of rush hour, just maybe.

D.L.R.

cgcsb wrote: »

That's not entirely true, if we had DARTu + electrification across the GDA, it'd be very easy to:

-build a spur from Navan Road Parkway to James Connolly Hospital, Blanchardstown Centre Damastown/IBM and then join back onto the existing railway at Dunboyne, creating a sort of rail loop around Blanchardstown, or indeed just cease servicing the Clonsilla-Dunboyne stretch.

-Build a spur from the proposed Inchicore DART station through industrial lands, Across the M50 and then on an elevated section along the Belgard road into Tallaght, giving Tallaght a frequent heavy rail service with a circa 20 minute journey time into town

DARTu made it possible to do all these things alas it's been FGed.

Changing the ruling party won't change anything.

FF had decades in power and we got two disconnected, low capacity street trams, while rural Ireland got 1000km of pristine motorway and white elephants galore.

Can't see SF being any different given their huge reliance on the northern and western vote. They'd be more concerned with the A5 in Fermanagh than DU.

No, until Dublin has a regional govt of its own that stands up for the city, its interests will never be prioritised.

Deedsie

D.L.R. wrote: »

Changing the ruling party won't change anything.

FF had decades in power and we got two disconnected, low capacity street trams, while rural Ireland got 1000km of pristine motorway and white elephants galore.

Can't see SF being any different given their huge reliance on the northern and western vote. They'd be more concerned with the A5 in Fermanagh than DU.

No, until Dublin has a regional govt of its own that stands up for the city, its interests will never be prioritised.

The A5 is planned to go through Tyrone and Derry, not Fermanagh.

I would agree in general though, public transport needs to be administered by a non biased authority. Dublin is in trouble if these vital projects are not built soon.

jamo2oo9

Looks like work is getting started at Broadstone now. The green beside the road was cleared away today. Line at Dominick St Upper appears to be on hold for the time being. Tracks and all sorts of construction works are done but services and tarmacing is left to do at that section.

1huge1

Took some pictures from the Liam Whelan Bridge today as I was walking by.

Not much progress over the last few months here, I suppose its not their main area of concentration at the moment and should be able to get this part of the route up and running relatively fast.

MJohnston

1huge1 wrote: »

Took some pictures from the Liam Whelan Bridge today as I was walking by.

Not much progress over the last few months here, I suppose its not their main area of concentration at the moment and should be able to get this part of the route up and running relatively fast.

I'd imagine with the speed they've been managing to get the on street sections done, with all the extra work that involves, the off street portion could be done in a month.

As an aside, planning to move to that area soon, and I wish they'd worked a parallel cycle path into the deal

trellheim

Is there an RFI for the new 50m trams anywhere

spacetweek

MJohnston wrote: »

I'd imagine with the speed they've been managing to get the on street sections done, with all the extra work that involves, the off street portion could be done in a month.

As an aside, planning to move to that area soon, and I wish they'd worked a parallel cycle path into the deal

Space would be too tight and you might get cyclists wobbling in front of trams.