Are they worth it ?

purpur1

stovelid wrote: »

Don't mean this in a bad way. It sounds like they want to discuss kids among themselves and you're the odd one out. What can you do?

Obviously be tolerant until they wish to discuss other things.

Selfish of them maybe, but you can't really expect the overhwlming majority of a group to avoid a topic of mutual interest for the sake of one person.

Avoiding a topic was not what i was talking about, i'm talking about drowing out ALL other means of conversation with this one subject because it's held dear to one/maybe two people in a group. Selfish - definitely.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Scenario - 3 people become friends. 2 of these people go on to have children, and the dynamics of the group completely change. In other words, for these people to be able to stay excellent friends, you're saying that the childless person needs to be totally tolerant (which in fairness, is what mainly happens in real life situations anyway) of their reproducing friends? I think it's very easy for friends to drift apart in situations like this, alot is expected of people that dont have/dont want children from people that do. Sometimes i don't think they realise that. You don't sound like the stereotype i'm talking about, so good for you. But i think it becomes difficult to remain great friends when things like this come into the quation and it's not a common interest.

stovelid

purpur1 wrote: »

Scenario - 3 people become friends. 2 of these people go on to have children, and the dynamics of the group completely change. In other words, for these people to be able to stay excellent friends, you're saying that the childless person needs to be totally tolerant (which in fairness, is what mainly happens in real life situations anyway) of their reproducing friends? I think it's very easy for friends to drift apart in situations like this, alot is expected of people that dont have/dont want children from people that do. Sometimes i don't think they realise that. You don't sound like the stereotype i'm talking about, so good for you. But i think it becomes difficult to remain great friends when things like this come into the quation and it's not a common interest.

The mutual interest thing can be strong.

I feel a lot less pressured if my child throws a wobbler when I'm out with another parent as I get guilty that somebody with no kids is thiinking "fucking brat" or is embarassed or something. Or things like venue: I used to love going to a certain place for lunch with an old (no kids) friend. I can't go so much now as it's not really a child-place in my eyes, so your time with a friend suffers. Ditto the whole drinking thing. Spontaneous pints (love them) suffer, for example.

Maybe as time goes by, your pals will come to their senses as they get a handle on things or the kids get older and less demanding.

Or maybe you have a discreet word and let them know how you feel. Sometimes people need a little hint that others are left out.

goodmum

Can I just add purpur

'2 of these people go on to have children, and the dynamics of the group completely change'

This actually happens within the group of people who have kids and it's not exclusive to those who have/have not got kids.

For example, I had some fantastic friends before I had my kid - drinking buddies I guess. I had the child and we drifted, mainly because they could still go drinking and I couldn't (as easily, anyhow). None of them had kids at the time, but we all kept in touch, tho didn't see each other as much.
2 of this group have recently had babies...whilst on paper, we should have more stuff in common now that they are also parents, I'm at a different stage to them - I'm so far past the nappies and bottles stage that it's almost a blur. The three of us went out recently, and while I was able to offer advice here and there about newborn behaviour etc, I felt very excluded from their conversation as our kids are such different ages. The dynamic of our group has changed again.
However, if I'm in a group of the pals I currently see, we all have school-going children, some in the same class, so the chat tends to be more 'even' if that makes sense.

moonpurple

op wrote

kids are like farts

:pac:

Lothaar v2

Having kids means responsibility. Of course, as with any responsibility, that's a burden.

Is that responsibility worth it?

Considering parents have, generally speaking, experienced life with and without children, they are the ones most qualified to give an answer to that question.

Most parents would say that it is indeed worth it. I know I would.

Noreen1

Heckler wrote: »

Just married. No kids.

Have nephews and nieces and loads of friends with kids and love them to bits but......

Everytime all the parents get together all they do is go on about what they could do if they didn't have kids.The meals they could go for, the holidays they could have, how great it is when they have a babysitter and they can head out.

These parents obviously still love their kids from their behaviour with them. My wife and I told people we had no immediate interest in having children and some people looked at us like we had two heads.

I can answer my own question for the parents reading this. Yes They are.

But for others like myself.....Kids are like farts. You're own are fine but other peoples are a pain in the ass.

I mean this seriously for the parents here. What are the benefits of having a child ?

I'd hazard a guess that, in your situation at the present time - probably not that many!:D

If you are just married, you want/need to spend time as a couple before considering extending your family - which is generally a good idea, since marriage itself is a big adjustment.

I'm not suggesting that if you became a parent tomorrow you wouldn't adjust and probably end up being as proud and devoted a parent as the rest of us - but if you have to ask the question, then you are probably not ready for parenting, so you shouldn't really consider it just because "everyone" expects you to.

The time to ask questions about the pros/cons of being a parent is when you, as a couple, want to become parents - not when everyone else thinks you should.
JMO

Noreen

CrazyRabbit

Heckler wrote: »

I mean this seriously for the parents here. What are the benefits of having a child ?

1. Cheap labour.
2. If you have several kids, they can all chip in and pay for a nice nursing home for you when you get old.
3. They teach you patience.
4. They sometimes do funny stuff by accident that you can videotape, post on youtube and then reap lots of €€€ from ad revenue & merchandising.
5. If you need a new lung, kidney etc, you have a greater chance of getting a donor match.
6. When they are babies, hot women sometimes stop and talk to you & remark at how adorable the baby is. These are good opportunities to get a phone number/date.
7. You get to try out new and different hairstyles on them before getting the same haircut yourself.
8. They are good at fetching beer from the fridge.

Mackleton

deman wrote: »

Yes, there are sacrifices to be made. But isn't that sacrifice worth it when you know that some part of you will be around when you are long gone? If this sounds selfish to some, then what about those who choose not to have children? To me this sounds like the ultimate act of selfishness.

Why exactly do you think that not contributing to an already enormous population surplus (globally speaking) is selfish, you are depriving no one but yourself by not having children...

wild_cat

Recent enough link about over population

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/06/18/2010-06-18_human_race_will_be_extinct_in_100_years_scientist_frank_fenner_says_blaming_clim.html

PK2008

grizzly wrote: »

I've always thought of having kids as a selfish act. We have enough people on the earth already — do we need more?

Couldnt not having children also be classed as selfish?

ch750536

goodmum wrote: »

So I'm leading an empty life.....:rolleyes:
Funny, doesn't feel remotely empty to me.....:D

It will when you have kids and look back.

coffee_cake

PK2008 wrote: »

Couldnt not having children also be classed as selfish?

No. It couldn't.

RobbieTheRobber

ch750536 wrote: »

It will when you have kids and look back.

Thats really condescending, many people can live happy fullfilled lives, without feeling the need to ruin a childs life to make themselves happy!

00112984

BarnhallBull wrote: »

They're totally worth it.

Unless you get a ginger one, then what the hell would you do!?

I'd kill dye it.

Eve_Dublin

I decided I didn´t want kids about 3 years ago....too much fun galavanting around and there´s loads of things want to do in the next 10 years and kids would only be a burden (I´m 30) but I had a pregnancy scare about a year and a half ago....period 3 weeks late and I genuinely thought I was. I was petrified and was already planning a termination until I did the test....then I found out I wasn´t and I felt genuine disappointment. That feeling surprised me. Don´t know if it was the hormones or my sub-concious...got me thinking though.

I say I don´t want kids now but if I accidentally got pregnant, I think I´d get used to the idea in time and be ultimately happy in the end.

MistyCheese

Cheryl Cole is worth it. She told me so herself.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Until such time as they are able to make a cup of tea and a sandwich they are the au pairs responsability imho.

lost in my own head

Heckler wrote: »

Just married. No kids.

Have nephews and nieces and loads of friends with kids and love them to bits but......

Everytime all the parents get together all they do is go on about what they could do if they didn't have kids.The meals they could go for, the holidays they could have, how great it is when they have a babysitter and they can head out.

These parents obviously still love their kids from their behaviour with them. My wife and I told people we had no immediate interest in having children and some people looked at us like we had two heads.

I can answer my own question for the parents reading this. Yes They are.

But for others like myself.....Kids are like farts. You're own are fine but other peoples are a pain in the ass.

I mean this seriously for the parents here. What are the benefits of having a child ?

As a parent, I could go on about this forever, Don't worry I won't. There are a lot of benefits of having a child, yeah, it's really hard work, and you rarely get time to yourself, so waiting is a good idea, but when your child says "I love you" for the first time, it's the most amazing feeling in the world, or when your baby falls asleep cuddled into you, you'll never want to move, there are so many little things that make parenthood the most amazing experience of your life, and you just stop caring about the things that you can no longer do, when your child gives you a hug or even just smiles at you. It so worth it.

lost in my own head

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I decided I didn´t want kids about 3 years ago....too much fun galavanting around and there´s loads of things want to do in the next 10 years and kids would only be a burden (I´m 30) but I had a pregnancy scare about a year and a half ago....period 3 weeks late and I genuinely thought I was. I was petrified and was already planning a termination until I did the test....then I found out I wasn´t and I felt genuine disappointment. That feeling surprised me. Don´t know if it was the hormones or my sub-concious...got me thinking though.

I say I don´t want kids now but if I accidentally got pregnant, I think I´d get used to the idea in time and be ultimately happy in the end.

When I found out I was pregnant I was horrified, I think I cried for like a week, I was only 22 an had so many plans, but when I stopped crying long enough to actually think about it, it was completely different, I started counting the days till my baby's born, and though I still haven't done any of the things I wanted to do I have now 3 children and wouldn't change them for the world.

goodmum

'It will when you have kids and look back.'

What a load of tripe. In hindsight, MY life was empty before I had my kid - I had no focus, I spent weekends in the pub with friends, thursday nites out clubbing - 2 days a week with hangovers. Yes I had fun, yes I travelled the world luckily...and I thought I was having a great life, I really did.

But looking back, it was all quite shallow. I was very selfish - I really only cared about myself and who I could meet for a nite out....

Since I had my kid, I have focus. I know what I want and I get it - I am his role model (his dad's not involved, so it's all down to me)...I 'made' this little guy and I'm helping him become a decent person - it's a pretty good feeling...
I have alot of nephews & nieces. I spent alot of time with them before I was a parent myself. I love them all dearly.
But it's not comparable to the love I feel for my own little guy.
The above is just my own experience of parenthood and perhaps its too mushy for you guys - but hey, I'm proud that I'm a parent.

stovelid

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

They are good at fetching beer from the fridge.

My friend's son could do this at 4 years old. And open the bottle. And he often made additional unasked-for runs.

Best son ever.

Dozen Wicked Words

stovelid wrote: »

My friend's son could do this at 4 years old. And open the bottle. And he often made additional unasked-for runs.

Best son ever.

Having more than one child is even better, often they fight over the honour of getting their dad a beer, regretfully they also fight about virtually anything else.

stovelid

dooferoaks wrote: »

Having more than one child is even better, often they fight over the honour of getting their dad a beer, regretfully they also fight about virtually anything else.

Time to introduce a separate, concurrent snack run?

pickarooney

stovelid wrote: »

My friend's son could do this at 4 years old. And open the bottle. And he often made additional unasked-for runs.

Best son ever.

The day I came home from work after a ****ty day and my two year old took one look at me and ran to get a beer from the fridge was one of the best moments I've had. Then I started to worry about what exactly he saw me as.

stovelid

pickarooney wrote: »

Then I started to worry about what exactly he saw me as.

Awesome?

Pete M.

Mine were worth it anyway, don't know about anyone else's.:)

As for being awesome, that's another bonus, they're going to look up to you even when yer crap

My young buck when asked by his mother who was playing in the footie replied 'heineken...'

And his favorite beer is Sol, the sun beer, he doesn't drink a lot though, prefers smoothies.:p

The Big Red Button

I hate this whole "People who have/don't have kids are selfish!" argument.

If someone who wants kids has kids, then they are not being selfish. Parenting, if you are prepared to do it properly, is one of the least selfish things out there.

If someone who wants to have kids decides not to have kids purely because they see it as a selfish act, then they are a tool. Life is too short. Becoming a parent is a huge life experience, and one child is not going to make/break the planet.

If someone who does not want to have kids gets pregnant and decides to keep an unwanted child ... I can't say I understand it But each to their own. Hopefully the child will make their own way in life, eventually.

If someone who does not want to have kids chooses not to have kids, then why on earth would anyone have any problem with that?! It's not being selfish or unselfish, it's just being sensible and rational.

goodmum

"If someone who does not want to have kids chooses not to have kids, then why on earth would anyone have any problem with that?! It's not being selfish or unselfish, it's just being sensible and rational"

Very true. If someone chooses not to have kids, it shouldn't affect anyone else. I never get when people say that others have looked at them funny or commented on the fact that they dont want kids. It's their choice. It won't affect my life, or how I live it.

Dudess

grizzly wrote: »

I've always thought of having kids as a selfish act. We have enough people on the earth already — do we need more?

I think that's ludicrous.

deman wrote: »

For thousands of years, the wisest of the human race have searched in earnest for the meaning of life. They have also searched for immortality and everlasting life. These secrets can be found in our children. I have four children that make my life a bundle of joy. Yes, there are sacrifices to be made. But isn't that sacrifice worth it when you know that some part of you will be around when you are long gone? If this sounds selfish to some, then what about those who choose not to have children? To me this sounds like the ultimate act of selfishness. Also, Europe has an ageing population and yes we do need more families having children here.

If you're saying it's selfish in contrast to Grizzly's assertion above, I can see where you're coming from, but to just view the choice to not have children as a selfish one... is pretty unfair.

goodmum wrote: »

No offence, but what or who, defines your life?

Why should a person have someone/thing that defines their life?

goodmum wrote: »

In hindsight, MY life was empty before I had my kid - I had no focus, I spent weekends in the pub with friends, thursday nites out clubbing - 2 days a week with hangovers. Yes I had fun, yes I travelled the world luckily...and I thought I was having a great life, I really did.

But looking back, it was all quite shallow. I was very selfish - I really only cared about myself and who I could meet for a nite out....

Well then I guess to you I'm selfish and shallow... not that I should give a sh1t what you think of me, but there's something really unpleasant about that statement...

Judging people for having/not having children is horrible.

gogo wrote: »

Everyone wants to fall in love, right, well the benefit of kids is that I have never felt anything like the love that you feel for your own child. Im married for 5 years and love my husband dearly, but the feeling of pride, love, happiness you get when you look at your child and know that I made him, and he's great because im teaching him how to be great is incomparable.

Yes, Im knackered at the best of times, he likes to get up a half six, but then no-one else is as happy to see me at half six in the morning either. Who else would be waiting with the biggest grin at that time?

When I was in college, my newphew lived at home with us for a while. when he would kiss you he would hold your face in his hands, there was never anything like that kiss on a cold december evening, when your cold and tired and the day has been endless. Two little warm hands, a kiss and someone who's delighted to see you.

lost in my own head wrote: »

As a parent, I could go on about this forever, Don't worry I won't. There are a lot of benefits of having a child, yeah, it's really hard work, and you rarely get time to yourself, so waiting is a good idea, but when your child says "I love you" for the first time, it's the most amazing feeling in the world, or when your baby falls asleep cuddled into you, you'll never want to move, there are so many little things that make parenthood the most amazing experience of your life, and you just stop caring about the things that you can no longer do, when your child gives you a hug or even just smiles at you. It so worth it.

Lovely posts.

goodmum

Well you took exactly what you wanted from my posts.

I was expressing how I felt, in my life. I even put MY in block capitals at one stage, to emphasise that it was my experience from MY life.

I couldn't care less who has kids or who hasn't. I just care about my kid.

I don't get why this has become a battle in your head about people who have kids vs people who don't.

I expressed my opinions on my life. End of.