Are they worth it ?

Wibbs

pickarooney wrote: »

We're about 90 years from complete extinction if we stop having kids.

:eek: That's so incorrect it's actually funny. We are nowhere near extinction. We would have to get down to the 10's of 1000's on our species to get near a species extinction event. Seriously that's a bit out there as a claim. Obviously if we never had kids again we would go extinct but who the hell made that suggestion?

If you're proposing birth restrictions, at least get off the fence and say how they should be implemented.

One child per family basically.

Would it not be far more beneficial for the long-term survival of humanity to stop vaccinating, give up trying to salvage anything from natural disasters, stop operating on people with possibly fatal injuries/diseases, quit interfering in wars/genocides and just let the world population thin itself out rather than proposing nonsense ideas like not having any more children?

Eh hardly. Having one child per family would be like the rich people example you gave earlier. More resources aimed at the individual. More value placed on same. The population would drop over time. The impact of us on the planet would also drop.

coffee_cake

Wibbs wrote: »

:eek: That's so incorrect it's actually funny. We are nowhere near extinction. We would have to get down to the 10's of 1000's on our species to get near a species extinction event. Seriously that's a bit out there as a claim. Obviously if we never had kids again we would go extinct but who the hell made that suggestion?

I think the point was anyone born now would be around 90 years off death, so literally no more kids = extinction in 90 years' time...

up for anything

Wibbs wrote: »

One child per family basically.

What would you do with the accidents and mistakes?

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

I think the point was anyone born now would be around 90 years off death, so literally no more kids = extinction in 90 years' time...

Oh yea but like I said no one is daft enough to suggest that. It would be akin to tackling the expanding weight problem by complete starvation.

Elessar

"Are they worth it?"

You're going to get very biased answers to that OP. Everyone who has them is obviously going to tell you they're great, they love them, etc. I've never come across someone who doesn't actually like his/her kids and said they were a mistake that shouldn't have happened and hates their life. Even people who think this, are not going to openly admit it.

Ceart

I think it differs per person, honestly. I never wanted children. My benefits did not exist until they came into the picture. I saw no purpose in procreating, lol. Now that I have them, though, they are my every heartbeat. The benefits to having them go hand-in-hand with their setbacks:

They stress me out when they do something bad...but they make me feel like the world is perfect when they randomly tell me that they love me.

They piss me off when they lie to me...but they make me feel like I am doing something right when they show me that they have learned their lesson and understand.

I enjoy my time away from them once in a blue moon...but I would die without them.

It just depends on the person: children are not for everybody.

You said people stare at you weird when you say you're not planning on kids any time soon...well, when mates of mine tell me that they are expecting, my first question is always: "Am I happy for you...or sorry?" Some people want to have babies: for them, I am happy. Some people do not, though: for them, I am sorry and supportive, lol. Kids are not for everybody...and I love my babies, but there are few children outside of my close circle of family and friends that I can stomach. This is why I teach secondary rather than primary: children piss me off. ;-)

ibarelycare

It could be my age, but right now kids have absolutely no appeal to me. I'm not particularly fond of children anyway, unless they're related to me. I have two nephews, who I absolutely adore, but I'm usually dying to give them back to their parents after a few hours minding them.

Perhaps my feelings will change in a few years time but right now I just look at all the positives a life without children will offer:

More money
More freedom
Better sex life
Better holidays
Nicer houses
Less stress

etc etc.

The way I see it right now is that I'll be happy enough playing auntie to any nephews and nieces I'll have, and that will be enough for me.

Wibbs

up for anything wrote: »

What would you do with the accidents and mistakes?

More freely available and cheaper contraception. Education in same. More money and research into better long term contraception. Male pill/injection for a start. Tax penalties for extra kids. Less support for extra kids. That would knock a fair few mistakes on the head. Given that many couples are going to be childless, by design or because of low fertility the numbers would still go down.

Oh sure it would come with issues, but 1 million extra people every four days is going to bring far far more. That figure will keep growing as those people reproduce. In Ireland we are lucky in that our population density is pretty low for a western country, so maybe we see it as less of an issue?

pickarooney

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh hardly. Having one child per family would be like the rich people example you gave earlier. More resources aimed at the individual. More value placed on same. The population would drop over time. The impact of us on the planet would also drop.

I don't believe it would. It's the rich nations with their small families who are consuming the vast majority of the world's resources. China adopted a one-child-per-family policy and it has done nothing to reduce the world population. The richer the individuals get, the more they consume per head.

If you want to talk about selfish - imagine an entire planet of spoiled, only children.

Large-scale war or a global outbreak of an incurable disease is a much more effective, fair way of bringing the population under control, but nobody wants that as it might affect them personally. Failing that, at some point we'll have a massive famine and people will die out, slowly and painfully.

opinion guy

Wibbs wrote: »

That would knock a fair few mistakes on the head.

Wibbs !! Knocking kids on the head ??? I'm shocked :D

pickarooney wrote: »

China adopted a one-child-per-family policy and it has done nothing to reduce the world population.

This is a ridiculous statement. I did not reduce world population because it was never intended to do that. Nor could it. What it did do is reduce population expansion in China. There would be alot more of Chinese people if they didn't have this policy.

This all being said - there have been some horrendous abuses of human rights in the name of this policy - infanticide etc.

pickarooney

opinion guy wrote: »

This is a ridiculous statement. I did not reduce world population because it was never intended to do that. Nor could it. What it did do is reduce population expansion in China. There would be alot more of Chinese people if they didn't have this policy.

The subject at hand was active population reduction and Wibbs, unless I'm mistaken, suggested a one child per family policy as a means to this end.

However as he failed to large, bold and italic font, it's possible that I misunderstood.

Wibbs

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't believe it would. It's the rich nations with their small families who are consuming the vast majority of the world's resources.

I agree and that needs to be stopped. That said if the world population halved in the next 50 years we'd use less resources even at present rates of consumption.

China adopted a one-child-per-family policy and it has done nothing to reduce the world population.

Like opinion guy said it wasnt meant to in that case, but it has reduced their growth.

The richer the individuals get, the more they consume per head.

The less individuals the less they will consume.

If you want to talk about selfish - imagine an entire planet of spoiled, only children.

I call shenanigans on that. Cliche TBH.

Large-scale war or a global outbreak of an incurable disease is a much more effective, fair way of bringing the population under control, but nobody wants that as it might affect them personally. Failing that, at some point we'll have a massive famine and people will die out, slowly and painfully.

Probably a flu or similar. If HIV went airborne we would be in trouble. Unlikely in that case though. The black death could come back. It's still out there. People still get infected, but it's virulence is a lot less than in the middle ages. If it mutated again, we would be in serious trouble. Yes its a bacterial infection and antibiotics could cure it, but you need to get them in quick and it would quickly overwhelm the medical communitys ability to cope. If it went pneumonic or septicemic even with antibiotics it would be game over very rapidly for the majority exposed. Our vulnerability is way higher than in the past. Rapid global travel could spread it within weeks. Higher populations living together would be a holiday for it. European populations would probably have some resistance as every european reading this is the descendant of the small groups of people who survived wave after wave of plagues over 100's of years, but Africa and a lot of Asia would be decimated.

minister poxbottle

Heckler wrote: »

Just married. No kids.

Have nephews and nieces and loads of friends with kids and love them to bits but......

Everytime all the parents get together all they do is go on about what they could do if they didn't have kids.The meals they could go for, the holidays they could have, how great it is when they have a babysitter and they can head out.

These parents obviously still love their kids from their behaviour with them. My wife and I told people we had no immediate interest in having children and some people looked at us like we had two heads.

I can answer my own question for the parents reading this. Yes They are.

But for others like myself.....Kids are like farts. You're own are fine but other peoples are a pain in the ass.

I mean this seriously for the parents here. What are the benefits of having a child ?

in your case i would strongly advise against having childern just get yourself a fcuking cat

Greyfox

For me I think life's too short to bother with them. I'm nearly 30 and theirs too many good films, tv shows, books, computer games that I already don't have enough time for and theirs nearly always plenty of good sport on tv to look forward to. Theirs so many places I haven't traveled to, theirs trying to make time for playing football and going to the gym, making time for friends and my love life and theirs even delutions of going back to college, thing is I'm 28 and not 22 and can't see myself ever changing.

Kids/babys is small dose's are grand as they can be so cute but having your own is so, so bloody expensive. Even if your lucky enough to afford to be able to go for a few pints the odd weekend when you get a babysitter you'd probably be too wrecked from the busy week to really enjoy it.

Funny thing is I've heard of people changing from where I'm at now to actually been happy with a kid, apparently seeing a smaller version of yourself develop and become a grown up is great....but it's a bloody 18 year risk, actually more as most 18 years olds wait another few years to move out.

We'll.....I actually feel like saying that writing this post is the exact moment in my life when I decided I never want to have kids, actually it is the EXACT moment I decided I don't want kids. Up to now I always thought I shouldn't rule kids out as you don't know what's around the corner in life, you could change your opinion etc but for me the "risk" is far too big

Yep, writing this post has led me to make my final decision, I don't think it's been selfish as I don't see where anybody is obliged to reproduce. The way I see it, no matter what way you look at it having kids comes with a huge risk. They could financially ruin you, you could resent not having enough quality time with your parner, you could badly miss the peace and quiet or just not like having so much responsibility....theirs also the possibility that I could become a great father and enjoy the company of my kids....but I stand to lose 18+ years if I'm wrong..18 years is just far too big of a risk!

This is a much longer post then I expected....sure if I'm wrong and I regret it i can't see it having that big of an effect on my life, but if you have kids and then regret it your absolutely fooked. I'm going to the pub for a cavary lunch and a pint to think about the massive decision i've just made and how great it is to never have to change a poxy nappy, this post has been quite a rewarding experience for me, sorry it's so long and sorry for anybody who thinks I've just wasted 5 minutes of their lives

PeterIanStaker

grizzly wrote: »

I've always thought of having kids as a selfish act. We have enough people on the earth already — do we need more?

I agree we are already overpopulated. Besides they cost a lot to raise. This gerneration is lucky imho with contraception there'll be no 12 kid famillies like there were.

Heckler

minister poxbottle wrote: »

in your case i would strongly advise against having childern just get yourself a fcuking cat

I only asked a question. Have nothing against kids, only parents who think that everyone should find their screaming, running riot offspring "adorable". They're not. They're a pain in the hole.

PeterIanStaker

Elessar wrote: »

"Are they worth it?"

You're going to get very biased answers to that OP. Everyone who has them is obviously going to tell you they're great, they love them, etc. I've never come across someone who doesn't actually like his/her kids and said they were a mistake that shouldn't have happened and hates their life. Even people who think this, are not going to openly admit it.

I remember someone said that to me about their kids, she had 3, having got married to Gobdaw secondary school crush when she was 20. She genuinely regretted having them and she wasn't being selfish, I dont think.

stovelid

I find it really boring when people discuss their kids ad nauseam, but child-free people discussing the 65 reasons why they personally don't want children: who could ever tire of this riveting subject?

goodmum

'For me I think life's too short to bother with them'

Have to disagree with that one and say that life's too short NOT to bother with them.

I was one of the the 30-sumthings who used to get bored senseless listening to women all around me yabbering on about their offspring, wondering why they just didn't get themselves a life without talking bout their kids all the time.

Roll on a few years and I am now that woman. Thing is, the child/ren become your life. You have no choice - yes, you can continue to have a social life apart from the kids, but ultimately you, well, I, would die for my child.

You actually have to live it to feel it though. I would have asked all the same questions you did OP, a few years back because I really just didn't 'get' this kid thing. But no other human being on this planet has ever made me feel the way my kid does, about myself....

ibarelycare

goodmum wrote: »

'For me I think life's too short to bother with them'

Have to disagree with that one and say that life's too short NOT to bother with them.

I was one of the the 30-sumthings who used to get bored senseless listening to women all around me yabbering on about their offspring, wondering why they just didn't get themselves a life without talking bout their kids all the time.

Roll on a few years and I am now that woman. Thing is, the child/ren become your life. You have no choice - yes, you can continue to have a social life apart from the kids, but ultimately you, well, I, would die for my child.

You actually have to live it to feel it though. I would have asked all the same questions you did OP, a few years back because I really just didn't 'get' this kid thing. But no other human being on this planet has ever made me feel the way my kid does, about myself....

No offence, but this is exactly what I would hate. It sounds like your child defines your life!

ch750536

From the male perspective kids are cool. It's like a living tamagochi. You feed them, train them, love them & care for them in the hope of making an astronaut.

When they turn out to work in McDonalds you re-evaluate and decide it was clever of you to guide them to a less dangerous place.

NothingMan

ch750536 wrote: »

From the male perspective kids are cool. It's like a living tamagochi. You feed them, train them, love them & care for them in the hope of making an astronaut.

I left my Tamagochi on a train. I wonder if my children will be fated to be abandoned similarly.

purpur1

I was one of the the 30-sumthings who used to get bored senseless listening to women all around me yabbering on about their offspring, wondering why they just didn't get themselves a life without talking bout their kids all the time.

Roll on a few years and I am now that woman. Thing is, the child/ren become your life. You have no choice - yes, you can continue to have a social life apart from the kids, but ultimately you, well, I, would die for my child.

I completely understand the transition you have made and why you made it.

Do you take a step back for a moment when you're talking non stop about your kids and try to gague how your audience (i'm talking about people that don't have/don't want kids) feels about it all? I know some women do, but alot of them don't. I know you're their friend and they love you so they'll always listen, but it is a tiresome task listening to all that. I just cant understand why people, esp women, plan and look forward to a day/night out away from their kids but then spend the WHOLE time yabbing on about them. I think it's actually quite selfish and a bit forceful to do things like that to people that don't have/don't want children. I don't know, it makes you realise the huge differences between friends when children are brought into the scenario. It seems that parents who are friends with people who don't exactly want children don't seem to notice this very much, but the childless people have to endure this almost every single time, and it's so much worse when you're out in a group and there's more than one parent there because there might as well be nobody else in the room while you two talk about your kids!!!

(Sorry for the rant i've been listening to this s**t all weekend and my cheeks hurt from politely smiling and going "ahhhhhh" when really i dont give two f**ks anymore)!!!!!

goodmum

'No offence, but this is exactly what I would hate. It sounds like your child defines your life'

None taken, but my child does define my life for now and will continue to do so until he's old enough to look after himself. I have no choice but to care for him until he can care for himself.
No offence, but what or who, defines your life?

ibarelycare

purpur1 wrote: »

I completely understand the transition you have made and why you made it.

Do you take a step back for a moment when you're talking non stop about your kids and try to gague how your audience (i'm talking about people that don't have/don't want kids) feels about it all? I know some women do, but alot of them don't. I know you're their friend and they love you so they'll always listen, but it is a tiresome task listening to all that. I just cant understand why people, esp women, plan and look forward to a day/night out away from their kids but then spend the WHOLE time yabbing on about them. I think it's actually quite selfish and a bit forceful to do things like that to people that don't have/don't want children. I don't know, it makes you realise the huge differences between friends when children are brought into the scenario. It seems that parents who are friends with people who don't exactly want children don't seem to notice this very much, but the childless people have to endure this almost every single time, and it's so much worse when you're out in a group and there's more than one parent there because there might as well be nobody else in the room while you two talk about your kids!!!

(Sorry for the rant i've been listening to this s**t all weekend and my cheeks hurt from politely smiling and going "ahhhhhh" when really i dont give two f**ks anymore)!!!!!

Did they take out their phones and started showing pictures of their little darlings to anyone in close proximity? Nothing worse! :mad::mad::mad:

ibarelycare

goodmum wrote: »

'No offence, but this is exactly what I would hate. It sounds like your child defines your life'

None taken, but my child does define my life for now and will continue to do so until he's old enough to look after himself. I have no choice but to care for him until he can care for himself.
No offence, but what or who, defines your life?

No single thing or person defines my life. I'd feel I'd led quite an empty life if that was the case.

goodmum

Purpur1...I find that most of the company I'm in, they have kids too so I don't really need to take that step back and stop talking about kids. But when I'm in company of those without, I might mention some kid stuff, but I'll stop myself because I'm aware that that person has no kids.
And when I get a break/nite out away from him, I doubt I mention him at all!!!!

Like I said, i was you a few years back. I can't explain the feeling or the wanting to talk about him all the time...I don't know where it comes from, or why. I just know that u get this ridiculous pride thing the second they're born because you made them.
And with the best will in the world, you continue to work, you continue to have a social life etc...but things are never the same after you have a kid. Again, can't explain it but they just aren't.

goodmum

So I'm leading an empty life.....:rolleyes:
Funny, doesn't feel remotely empty to me.....:D

ibarelycare

goodmum wrote: »

So I'm leading an empty life.....:rolleyes:
Funny, doesn't feel remotely empty to me.....:D

I didn't say you were living an empty life, that's just the way I'd feel! But you're happy the way you are so it shouldn't matter what I say about it (and I don't mean that in a patronising way!)

stovelid

purpur1 wrote: »

I completely understand the transition you have made and why you made it.

Do you take a step back for a moment when you're talking non stop about your kids and try to gague how your audience (i'm talking about people that don't have/don't want kids) feels about it all? I know some women do, but alot of them don't. I know you're their friend and they love you so they'll always listen, but it is a tiresome task listening to all that. I just cant understand why people, esp women, plan and look forward to a day/night out away from their kids but then spend the WHOLE time yabbing on about them. I think it's actually quite selfish and a bit forceful to do things like that to people that don't have/don't want children. I don't know, it makes you realise the huge differences between friends when children are brought into the scenario. It seems that parents who are friends with people who don't exactly want children don't seem to notice this very much, but the childless people have to endure this almost every single time, and it's so much worse when you're out in a group and there's more than one parent there because there might as well be nobody else in the room while you two talk about your kids!!!

(Sorry for the rant i've been listening to this s**t all weekend and my cheeks hurt from politely smiling and going "ahhhhhh" when really i dont give two f**ks anymore)!!!!!

Don't mean this in a bad way. It sounds like they want to discuss kids among themselves and you're the odd one out. What can you do?

Selfish of them maybe, but you can't really expect the overhwlming majority of a group to avoid a topic of mutual interest for the sake of one person.

Not saying I agree necessarily. I cherish my friendships with mates who don't have kids (and no way am I a yabber about babies type) but sometimes it really is easier with friends who have children because they understand the pressure and time constraints in your life; you can share things with them that are very important to you (and other parents), and you don't feel bad when a child is demanding your attention or you have to sacrifice things, not least time, because of responsibilities.

As bad as it sounds at the end of the day, a lot of friendships are predicated on mutual interests. A big part of frienship is also making sacrifices for, and understanding the needs of, others. I have logged in many of man-months listening about friend's jobs, sex-lives and dreams - despite not having had those dreams, working those jobs or shagging those exes.