Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

molloyjh

ALH-06 wrote: »

Players are massive now. Of course ability is always necessary, but significant bulk has become a primary prerequisite of this sport at the highest level. Earls and EOM will always struggle as Heineken / International centres for this reason, unfortunately.

Maybe you could point out where EOMs size caused him to struggle in the HEC so far? After the game in Clermont last year the Clermont fans were raving about the guy. They thought he was excellent. He def didn't struggle in either leg of that fixture. 2 tries against Glasgow a couple of weeks ago and I didn't see any issues with him against Bath last week when he came on.

Earls hasn't struggled in the centre because of his size. He's struggled there because he doesn't have the right skill-set to be a centre.

ALH-06

molloyjh wrote: »

Maybe you could point out where EOMs size caused him to struggle in the HEC so far? After the game in Clermont last year the Clermont fans were raving about the guy. They thought he was excellent. He def didn't struggle in either leg of that fixture. 2 tries against Glasgow a couple of weeks ago and I didn't see any issues with him against Bath last week when he came on.

Earls hasn't struggled in the centre because of his size. He's struggled there because he doesn't have the right skill-set to be a centre.

We haven't seen enough of EOM at this level to make that judgement yet. I'm merely predicting that he'll struggle to contain massive, hard-running opposing centres by himself for 60 or 80 minutes at a time. Bearing in mind that a modern centre is charged not only with tackling, but also preventing gainline yards / offloads as well etc. This is where size & bulk become very crucial.

JustinDee

wixfjord wrote: »

Come on Justin that's pure fluff.
The Jamie Roberts question isn't "pointless" or "silly" at all.
Do you not agree that a big powerful specimen will have it far easier to succeed in rugby than a small, less bulky player, all skills being equal?

But it isn't a case of "all skills being equal". This is my point. Not "fluff" in the slightest.
I don't rate Jamie Roberts as a better player than James O'Connor, by the way.

fitz

ALH-06 wrote: »

We haven't seen enough of EOM at this level to make that judgement yet. I'm merely predicting that he'll struggle to contain massive, hard-running opposing centres by himself for 60 or 80 minutes at a time. Bearing in mind that a modern centre is charged not only with tackling, but also preventing gainline yards / offloads as well etc. This is where size & bulk become very crucial.

As has been repeatedly pointed out, you're predicting a struggle that he's already shown isn't an issue for him. His handling of Rougerie proved that he's more than capable of dealing with exactly the type of player you're convinced he'll get flattened by.

Bulk and size play a role, but they're not the be all and end all. Positioning, technique, speed, awareness...if the bulk and size are "in the ballpark" then a player being better than his opposition in the other aspects will make it completely irrelevant that they're a couple of kilos lighter and and inch or two smaller.

For me though, it boils down to this:
We've got plenty of evidence to suggest that O'Malley is a good centre.
We've got plenty of evidence to suggest Earls is not a good centre, but can be devastating on the wing.

Now, I think the majority of people here would be pretty happy to see Earls start at 11 during the 6 Nations (though competition is fierce with Fitzgeralds current run of form). It's when we start talking about starting him in a position where his defence, positioning and distribution have been shown up time and again, instead of playing a young guy who's shown at HEC level that he's got all the right tools for the position....that's when we get all these disagreements.

I really wish we could just stop considering Earls at centre and leave him on the wing, where he can excel. That would leave space for us to find a true centre to replace BOD. Do I think this will happen?

No.
I fully expect Kidney to play Earls at 13 during the 6 Nations.
I reckon it'll be the Sean O'Brien/Mike Ross selection situation all over again.

Sport101

fitz wrote: »

(though competition is fierce with Fitzgeralds current run of form)

How many tries has he scored in this run of form on the wing?

danthefan

Sport101 wrote: »

How many tries has he scored in this run of form on the wing?

Two.

fitz

Sport101 wrote: »

How many tries has he scored in this run of form on the wing?

Ha! Was wondering when someone would bring that up.
Yeah, I know, historically, he's not a prolific scorer, and I reckon that's what'll keep him out of the Irish team.
He's better defensively/positionally than Earls, but doesn't have that killer finishing ability, it's an aspect he needs to work on.

Tbh, I'd like to see him tried in the centre, I think he's got the skills for it, but again, can't see it happening.

Sport101

danthefan wrote: »

Two.

Both scored when he was playing 12.

fitz

Sport101 wrote: »

Both scored when he was playing 12.

As I said, I reckon he should be tried in the centre, but that won't happen. I'd expect to see Darcy and Earls during the 6 Nations, with Fitz/Trimble at wing, probably McFadden benching.

bamboozle

danthefan wrote: »

Two.

and he's going to score another 2 tomorrow...

part time punk

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Can you point me to any gym where I can shown how to grow 6inches?

Nah but I get plenty of spam emails about that kind of thing

dtpc191991

If size is what matters then Cave and Spence are our biggest Centres, it's not just size it's skill and technique. Size is definitely a helpful factor but not essential. Based on that the two current best first choices for Ireland are Fitzgerald and Spence at 12 and 13 respectively. My fear is knowing Kidney's past nature of persisting with players who clearly unsuited for their role in the team at this level until he has no option but to let them go. Kidney, based on the above, will undoubtedly pick D'Arcy (to old, lacks the physicality to present the threat he once had), and Earls (lack's the skill set for centre), in the above positions this coming 6 nations.

Sport101

bamboozle wrote: »

and he's going to score another 2 tomorrow...

If by score you mean overrun the pass then wave his hands, then sure!
Where's Shaggy these days? Now he's a winger who knows how to score tries...what a machine.

Cpt_Blackbeard

I'd love him to be tried in the centre. I'd love to see a backline along the following lines tog out for Ireland
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls /Trimble
12. Fitzgerald
13. Cave/Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

It's got a bit of an Australian mentality of getting our best players on the pitch and it's a pretty young unit too.

smurphy29

I love Captain Blackbeard's posts, they're hilarious.

There's a nub of truth in what he's saying in that mediocre players can survive through hugeness and little guys need to have bags of ability... but the whole point is that O'Malley has ability coming out of his eyes. He's quick, a good tackler, a good finisher and an intelligent player. But best of all, and unlike any of the other competitors for the position, he's a distributor. The boy can, and does, pass, whereas Earls likes to have a cut every time he gets the ball, and McFadden and Cave tend to plough into contact nd try to make yards that way.

Time will tell if O'Malley is going to be the next Irish 13, but he's putting himself in the shake-up. This weekend he's up against Ooooh Matt Banahan, so we'll learn a lot.

Sport101

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'd love him to be tried in the centre. I'd love to see a backline along the following lines tog out for Ireland
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls /Trimble
12. Fitzgerald
13. Cave/Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

It's got a bit of an Australian mentality of getting our best players on the pitch and it's a pretty young unit too.

Australians would never select Earls at 13, not one of them.

CatFromHue

Sport101 wrote: »

Australians would never select Earls at 13, not one of them.

Tony McGahan is Australian.

:cool:

Sport101

CatFromHue wrote: »

Tony McGahan is Australian.

:cool:

Ok, there's one of them.

fitz

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I'd love him to be tried in the centre. I'd love to see a backline along the following lines tog out for Ireland
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls /Trimble
12. Fitzgerald
13. Cave/Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

It's got a bit of an Australian mentality of getting our best players on the pitch and it's a pretty young unit too.

But why Earls as an option at 13 when he's clearly no cut out for it?
Not putting to guy down, he's a class winger, I just don't understand the willingness to overlook his glaring inadequacy at 13...

roycon

smurphy29 wrote: »

I love Captain Blackbeard's posts, they're hilarious.

There's a nub of truth in what he's saying in that mediocre players can survive through hugeness and little guys need to have bags of ability... but the whole point is that O'Malley has ability coming out of his eyes. He's quick, a good tackler, a good finisher and an intelligent player. But best of all, and unlike any of the other competitors for the position, he's a distributor. The boy can, and does, pass, whereas Earls likes to have a cut every time he gets the ball, and McFadden and Cave tend to plough into contact nd try to make yards that way.

Time will tell if O'Malley is going to be the next Irish 13, but he's putting himself in the shake-up. This weekend he's up against Ooooh Matt Banahan, so we'll learn a lot.

hes not quick. they used to have a song about omalley in school slagging him off for being too slow. his defense is excellent though and he can pass like an outhalf

roycon

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

It will most likely be a straight shootout between Earls and Cave. As much as I like EOM as a player he doesn't have the size to be an international 13. It's a very worrying sign when a player is dwarfed by D'Arcy. Earls may not be a giant either and his tackling technique is oft criticised but, technique can be taught, size cannot.

his tackling technique isnt criticised but his general lack of aggression in defence and attack is

Hype710

roycon wrote: »

hes not quick. they used to have a song about omalley in school slagging him off for being too slow. his defense is excellent though and he can pass like an outhalf

Used to think so myself but his try against Treviso would suggest otherwise.

TomsOnTheRoof

My backline would probably be;

9.Murray.
10.O'Gara/Sexton depending on opposition.
11.Trimble.
12.Fitzgerald.
13.O'Malley.
14.Bowe.
15.Kearney.

With Earls covering on the bench.

MungBean

Earls is set to lose his place on the wing to Fitz and Trimble so he wouldnt even make my squad let alone centre ahead of Cave or O'Malley (shouldnt anyway). Earls has a lot of work to do to catch up and I cant see it to be honest.

I also still dont understand why Murray is held in a higher regard than Boss and Reddan by some people. I dont think he's as fast or as quick thinking as the other too. He may be a slight bit more physical but not enough to make up for the rest in my opinion. I think his world cup selection may have placed him at higher level than he actually is in a lot of peoples eyes. He's a good player and should catch up to that point but he's not there yet I dont think.

bamboozle

MungBean wrote: »

Earls is set to lose his place on the wing to Fitz and Trimble so he wouldnt even make my squad let alone centre ahead of Cave or O'Malley (shouldnt anyway). Earls has a lot of work to do to catch up and I cant see it to be honest.

I also still dont understand why Murray is held in a higher regard than Boss and Reddan by some people. I dont think he's as fast or as quick thinking as the other too. He may be a slight bit more physical but not enough to make up for the rest in my opinion. I think his world cup selection may have placed him at higher level than he actually is in a lot of peoples eyes. He's a good player and should catch up to that point but he's not there yet I dont think.

no doubt uncle deccie has him pencilled in at 13 for the 6n's...

Sport101

bamboozle wrote: »

no doubt uncle deccie has him pencilled in at 13 for the 6n's...

Penned more like.

Cpt_Blackbeard

As long as Earls is the only back we have capable of scoring tries, he is worth his place in the team. With Sexton looking to be our cemented on starter, surely Earls should be the first name on the teamsheet as, he'll be the only player capable of scoring points. No?

durkadurka

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

As long as Earls is the only back we have capable of scoring tries, he is worth his place in the team. With Sexton looking to be our cemented on starter, surely Earls should be the first name on the teamsheet as, he'll be the only player capable of scoring points. No?

I don't think anybody has a problem with Earls at 11 for Ireland.

It's 13 where he is patently unsuitable.

smurphy29

roycon wrote: »

hes not quick. they used to have a song about omalley in school slagging him off for being too slow. his defense is excellent though and he can pass like an outhalf

Ha, I wasn't aware of such a song, but he does look pretty quick to me anyway.

I'm the type of fellow that likes to see players playing in their best positions, so I'd have O'Malley ahead of Earls every time in the centre. Earls would stil make my team, but on the wing where you get the best out of his natural finishing ability. I don't think he's halfway to being a good enough defender to play 13 at international level.

WeeBushy

Sport101 wrote: »

Penned more like.

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