Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You didn't understand what he said. Jacksons best form has come playing outside Marshall. You said it's seen as a plus that he gets to play outside Pienaar because of his experience (he's only played outside him once this season... A couple of times in his career) and then you say Marshall is inexperienced. It's nonsense.

Who is saying he has had the benefit of playing outside Pienaar, and where?

Marshall has never played international rugby = inexperience.

I'm only repeating what Ulster/David Humphreys puts out - i.e., that the experience of the likes of Pienaar, Afoa & Muller all help Ulster's young players. Marshall only starts games with Jackson when Pienaar is not available/rested/reintegrating back into the squad, and even after a motm performance against Castres, Marshall was dropped the following week for Pienaar.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Marshall has never played international rugby = inexperience.

I'm only repeating what Ulster/David Humphreys puts out - i.e., that the experience of the likes of Pienaar, Afoa & Muller all help Ulster's young players. Marshall only starts games with Jackson when Pienaar is not available/rested/reintegrating back into the squad, and even after a motm performance against Castres, Marshall was dropped the following week for Pienaar.

You're twisting what you said now. But it's OK because I can remind you. You said:

Its seen as a big plus for Jackson that he gets to play alongside a very experienced SH like Ruan Pienaar

And yet Jackson has only played beside him once this season.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You're twisting what you said now. But it's OK because I can remind you. You said:

And yet Jackson has only played beside him once this season.

Try and console yourself with twisting what I posted - facts are that Marshall is inexperienced at international level while Ruan Pienaar is a very experienced international who is still preferred on the big days for Ulster.

geekington

Fans like ourselves tend to try and focus on individual strengths / weaknesses of players to help try and compartmentalise individual areas of a team so that we can better justify overall selections.

The media is just as guilty of this - e.g. SOB is just a ball carrier and can never be an "out and out 7" - why can't he do both...Murray is physical but can't inject tempo - since when do 9's need to be physical (Danny Care / Arron Smith are hardly huge!)

Are we hammpering selections by focusing on these??

We are at home in our full stadium, why shouldn't we be afraid to go at them at pace - I'm thinking in the same manner as against England in 2011! DK should pick his team with this in mind - if we pick a fight with them we aren't not going to win!!!

leftleg

ROG for the ten jersey, who is this Sexton fella anyway. Never heard of him.

Fireball07

I do think people should remember that two wrongs don't make a right... past selections shouldn't be cross-examined every time a team is picked.


If the team that people are mentioning is the one chosen, I think it's hugely encouraging and would be very close to one that I'd pick himself. Slagging someone for things they might have done if certain things had happened isn't fair at all. I'm sure there will be plenty of problems with the gameplan and style of play for you all to get your digs in without attacking what looks like a progressive team selection.

And even in the past where some selections were poor, it wasn't just those that made us lose games... almost all the players available are good enough if employed in the right manner.

jamiedav2011

SA team from Twitter:

Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen, Jaco Taute, Jean de Villiers, Francois Hougaard, Pat Lambie, Ruan Pienaar, Duane Vermuelen, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Beast Mtawarira

Schalk Brits, CJ van der Linde, Pat Cilliers, Flip van der Merwe, Marcell Coetzee, Morne Steyn, Juan de Jongh, Lwazi Mvovo

jamiedav2011

Alberts and Louw will seriously test our 6+7 combination whoever they might be.
POM at 7 would be a disaster from my POV against these guys.

thomond2006

That's one big pack.

goreyguy

just accept defeat is likely and each defeat makes kidney more likely to be gone.

JRant

geekington wrote: »

Fans like ourselves tend to try and focus on individual strengths / weaknesses of players to help try and compartmentalise individual areas of a team so that we can better justify overall selections.

The media is just as guilty of this - e.g. SOB is just a ball carrier and can never be an "out and out 7" - why can't he do both...Murray is physical but can't inject tempo - since when do 9's need to be physical (Danny Care / Arron Smith are hardly huge!)

Are we hammpering selections by focusing on these??

We are at home in our full stadium, why shouldn't we be afraid to go at them at pace - I'm thinking in the same manner as against England in 2011! DK should pick his team with this in mind - if we pick a fight with them we aren't not going to win!!!

Well alot of the Irish rugby meeja is just sh*te to be honest. Sure Toland was on Newstalk during the week calling for ROG to partner Marshall against Fiji. Wood thinks POM has a chance for the armband this series! You couldn't make this nonsense up if you tried.

Your spot on though, we're a far to formulated team and therefore very easy to beat. That England game was a great example of what this team could achieve if let of leash. Weren't there rumours that DK was furious with Reddan after the game for not following the preplanned script to a tee?

JRant

leftleg wrote: »

ROG for the ten jersey, who is this Sexton fella anyway. Never heard of him.

At this stage I'd have Tom Sexton ahead of him

thomond2006

goreyguy wrote: »

just accept defeat is likely and each defeat makes kidney more likely to be gone.

Loving the positivity, keep it up

bilston

goreyguy wrote: »

just accept defeat is likely and each defeat makes kidney more likely to be gone.

Why?

If our pack get parity we can beat them, our back line is better IMO (albeit I don't know anything about Taute at 13 for them).

It's a big test for O'Mahony and especially Henry (assuming they both play) and no doubt we'll especially miss Ferris and O'Brien, but with Healy and O'Connell fit we can compete up front and at the set piece.

bilston

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

SA team from Twitter:

Zane Kirchner, JP Pietersen, Jaco Taute, Jean de Villiers, Francois Hougaard, Pat Lambie, Ruan Pienaar, Duane Vermuelen, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Jannie du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Beast Mtawarira

Schalk Brits, CJ van der Linde, Pat Cilliers, Flip van der Merwe, Marcell Coetzee, Morne Steyn, Juan de Jongh, Lwazi Mvovo

I see they've picked Francois Trinh Duc or something on the right wing...:rolleyes:

Banbridgeman2

Foxtrol wrote: »

No they'll pick one trait a Munster player has to explain why he was/is selected but will then say the exact opposite when trying to explain away why a different Munster player was selected:

- Murray/DOC should be selected with ROG/POC due to their existing partnerships but not Redden/Sexton.

- Murray should be picked ahead of Redden due to his longterm viability but Jackson should be behind ROG due to his inexperience.

- Murray should be selected due to his physicality (not really key for a SH) but it should be ignored that POM is less physical than other backrow options (a trait that is much more important in a backrow).

- Zebo was picked ahead of Kearney/Gilroy due to his strike rate but Dowling should have been picked ahead of Carr because he is more solid.

- POM was selected for the 6 nations due to his MOM performances but it was ok to ignore SOB for Leamy during the AIs in 2010 despite him picking up several MOMs in the lead up.

- It was ok for DOC/Ryan to be benching for Ireland when the other was starting with POC but Gilroy/Madigan cant get near the Irish team because they arent starters for their provinces.

It would be great if the apologists could stop trying to have it whatever way suits their argument at the time and then quickly forgetting it.

Great post, I have another one: Murray deserved to start after 6 ML appearances in a world cup QF but Henderson is too inexperienced to start in an AI friendly

geekington

I didn't hear any rumours about Reddan but it wouldn't surprise me!

Without trying to start WW3 but its very obvious with supporters that we struggle to move our alligences from province to country. You only have to look over the past few pages to see this in evidence. I beleive in this is a great indication as to why our provences are so sucessful but is it having an impact on the team?

If supporters can't shake the shackles of provincial loyalty, is it fair to assume that players do to?

Contrasting this to the Welsh system whereby the players couldn't care less about their regions, they only seem to care about being in the Welsh camp!! Interstingly as an aside on this, I saw Scrum V during the week and they were showing what the lads were doing in Poland and it was amazing how they were focussing on the players fitness. Surely at this stage of the season they should be fully up to speed - my inner cynic believes that this proves the point about them taking their time in the club as just a jolly!

So the question is - are provincinal and national success mutually exclusive (perhaps 2009 disproves this)??

brinty

So is anyone one going to talk about the elephant in the room!!!!!

And i do believe a certain Leinster player asked this back in 2009 of Munster players....

Why is it leinster players have more pride in the blue jersey than they do in the green..given that the majority of the team is made up of leinster players!!!

Banbridgeman2

Well the problem is that the team isnt majority Leinster for most of year the team was majority Munster

bilston

brinty wrote: »

So is anyone one going to talk about the elephant in the room!!!!!

And i do believe a certain Leinster player asked this back in 2009 of Munster players....

Why is it leinster players have more pride in the blue jersey than they do in the green..given that the majority of the team is made up of leinster players!!!

The Ireland team being touted for Saturday has just as many Munster players in it as Leinster players;)

leftleg

brinty wrote: »

So is anyone one going to talk about the elephant in the room!!!!!

And i do believe a certain Leinster player asked this back in 2009 of Munster players....

Why is it leinster players have more pride in the blue jersey than they do in the green..given that the majority of the team is made up of leinster players!!!

60-0 with half a backs coach and half a defence coach, no scrum coach, useless head coach, crap strategy, bringing on rog at ten after 60 mins and moving the best 10 in Europe to 12 to accomodate him continuously.

shall i go on??

brinty

So is anyone going to hazard a guess at what Kidney's team will be for Saturday

Here's what i think he'll pick

Healy, Strauss,Ross
O'Connell,Ryan
McLaughlin,Heaslip,O'Mahony
Murray, Sexton
McFadden,Darcy,Earls,Bowe
Zebo

Heres what he should pick
Healy, Strauss,Ross
Ryan, McCarthy
McLaughlin,Heaslip, Henry
Murray, Sexton
Zebo, Darcy,Bowe, McFadden
Earls

tolosenc

brinty wrote: »

So is anyone one going to talk about the elephant in the room!!!!!

And i do believe a certain Leinster player asked this back in 2009 of Munster players....

Why is it leinster players have more pride in the blue jersey than they do in the green..given that the majority of the team is made up of leinster players!!!

Well, when you get BOD admitting to not having a clue what he's meant to be doing when playing for Ireland, you might get a hint at your answer...

brinty

leftleg wrote: »

60-0 with half a backs coach and half a defence coach, no scrum coach, useless head coach, crap strategy, bringing on rog at ten after 60 mins and moving the best 10 in Europe to 12 to accomodate him continuously.

shall i go on??

Does any that anser the question i asked?? Why do leinster players continue to underperform in Green...are they unable to account for their own performances and green...after all they were the players choosen to do the job!!

Heroditas

brinty wrote: »

Does any that anser the question i asked?? Why do leinster players continue to underperform in Green...are they unable to account for their own performances and green...after all they were the players choosen to do the job!!

This really is sub-standard trolling.

clsmooth

I'm not sure what has been more worrying with Kidney, his poor squad/team selections or his complete lack of modern day game plan. Kidney could turn the ABs to muck.

JRant

geekington wrote: »

I didn't hear any rumours about Reddan but it wouldn't surprise me!

Without trying to start WW3 but its very obvious with supporters that we struggle to move our alligences from province to country. You only have to look over the past few pages to see this in evidence. I beleive in this is a great indication as to why our provences are so sucessful but is it having an impact on the team?

If supporters can't shake the shackles of provincial loyalty, is it fair to assume that players do to?

Contrasting this to the Welsh system whereby the players couldn't care less about their regions, they only seem to care about being in the Welsh camp!! Interstingly as an aside on this, I saw Scrum V during the week and they were showing what the lads were doing in Poland and it was amazing how they were focussing on the players fitness. Surely at this stage of the season they should be fully up to speed - my inner cynic believes that this proves the point about them taking their time in the club as just a jolly!

So the question is - are provincinal and national success mutually exclusive (perhaps 2009 disproves this)??

To be honest I think a vast majority of us supporters park the provincal bus off to one side once it comes to the national team.
Whats I think is happening is that we are able to access a lot more games involving all the provinces through increased tv coverage. From this we get a front row seat, to games you'd never be able to make, and to see who's playing well and who's struggling.
Maybe a lot of the frustration comes from this. For example we see the provinces playing an exciting brand of rugby and winning, yet the national team's tatics are dull and have been found out.

I'd be very surprised if the players felt that way. Some may become dillusioned regarding tatics and such. But once that jersey goes on, 100% commitment.

molloyjh

geekington wrote: »

I didn't hear any rumours about Reddan but it wouldn't surprise me!

Without trying to start WW3 but its very obvious with supporters that we struggle to move our alligences from province to country. You only have to look over the past few pages to see this in evidence. I beleive in this is a great indication as to why our provences are so sucessful but is it having an impact on the team?

If supporters can't shake the shackles of provincial loyalty, is it fair to assume that players do to?

Contrasting this to the Welsh system whereby the players couldn't care less about their regions, they only seem to care about being in the Welsh camp!! Interstingly as an aside on this, I saw Scrum V during the week and they were showing what the lads were doing in Poland and it was amazing how they were focussing on the players fitness. Surely at this stage of the season they should be fully up to speed - my inner cynic believes that this proves the point about them taking their time in the club as just a jolly!

So the question is - are provincinal and national success mutually exclusive (perhaps 2009 disproves this)??

I don't think the provincial thing is that much of an issue. Plenty of posters from all 4 provinces have spent a while talking about players from Ulster for example who should have been included. It's rare posters side solely with their provincial players to the exclusion of others.

totallegend

JRant wrote: »

To be honest I think a vast majority of us supporters park the provincal bus off to one side once it comes to the national team.

I think so.

I wasn't posting on boards back in 2009 but I'd say if you went back and looked, very few people were b*tching about the fact that 11 of the 22 on duty in Cardiff were Munster players because:

a) Ireland were winning
b) Munster were the best team in Europe (or very close to it) at the time
c) The players in question hadn't been selected ahead of other more deserving candidates.

Skip forward a few years and none of a, b and c apply any more, hence the frustration.

danthefan

I'll drop any and all provincialism as soon as Kidney does. Until then it's a simple fact that Munster players get capped and break into the team easier than anyone else, despite Munster being at their worst for about 10 years or more. The examples have all been posted already.