PC games, The end is nigh... is it?

oceanclub

Dara Robinson wrote: »

Most PC games when newly released cost 50-60 euros

Where are you buying your games? Very rarely is a new PC game on, say, play.com, more than €40:

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/6-/RegionHome.html

P.

Liber8or

Dara Robinson wrote: »

P.S: Liber8or is my hero for the next few days

Lol, what did I do to deserve such a title?

Dara Robinson

Liber8or wrote: »

Lol, what did I do to deserve such a title?

This

Liber8or wrote: »

/thread over

I have to agree with jaykhunter, all most all games I have played over the last 5 years or so were completable in a days good gaming (ie 4-5 hours good uninterrupted play time) and thats a complete joke. And the main reason for them being so quick to finish is almost completely and exclusively proportional to how easy the game (btw excluded anything from Forgotten Relms and Bethesda from that list). Games should propose a challenge, a real one that should have you screaming and crying in frustration and only after playing that one section for the 56th time do you get it right.
(ok it pains me to make an example with a console game of all things but its a very good example of what I am talking about so you can crucify me later) but Gran Turismo 4 Prologue for the PS2, the licences were a challenge in them selves and some people would spend months trying to get gold on all of them. Thats a proper goal.
Look at SWG and the original set up for the Jedi. Bloody awesome cause it was so freakin hard. You either played the game or you went for Jedi, there was no middle ground and Jedi were rare and hard to obtain but so awesome because of it. So good because they were good but also so good because of the time and hardship endured to get one.

Where the hell has my difficulty level gone. And I'm not talking about a bloody slider that increases the number of mobs, their health and reduces mine cause thats just plain lazy if the game is a walk over to begin with.
Shoddy work and there is nothing we can do about it cause when we complain and speak with our wallets and buy quality products and ignore the mongrels out there they just flock to the console retards. :mad::mad::mad:

oceanclub, I'm talking about main stream retail stores in Dublin. I know its rip off centre but its where most people should be getting their games. Reality is that we dont because they rip us off so we shop around online or wait a few weeks for a bargain

oceanclub

Dara Robinson wrote: »

oceanclub, I'm talking about main stream retail stores in Dublin. I know its rip off centre but its where most people should be getting their games.

I don't understand. You're complaining about the prices, but then saying you buy there because you feel you should? If you're going to buy from them anyway, rather than the cheaper option of online retail, why should they lower their prices?

P.

Dara Robinson

no, I dont buy there unless I am getting a bargain like I said. I just feel that retail rips you off and then bitches about the fact that they are loosing sales to the north or online companies. Ignore me I am just bitching tbh lol

kowloon

Consoles don't have flight sims or proper strategy games, but if a new console came out able for these I'd buy one, and keep a sub-par pc for all the office muck.

I love PC gaming as much as the next (pretty much grew up on Commander Keen / Duke Nukem (2D) / Apogee games, LucasArts, Sierra, etc.) but, at the same time, I would have missed out on some fantastic gems, like Mario, Goldeneye, Donkey Kong, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, etc. had I just stuck with PC games.

Monotype

jaykhunter wrote: »

MW2 is last year's biggest new game, that's why I chose it. I also gave L4D2 as well......i don't care to more research but if want to please do. Though I doubt you'd do research to show that games have sold much better on consoles.

I'm not arguing with your point, I'm just saying that MW2 is especially skewed.

About the games getting easier... where's this thread wandering off to... I would have to agree. I noticed it when I chose the hard setting for HL2 (as someone of average skill). I think back to C64 games which were nearly impossible and earlier PC games like Descent which I couldn't get by a good portion of the levels without cheats. I haven't needed cheats in years and it's not because my skills have vastly improved. I think it's a reasonably good thing that games have gotten a bit easier. Otherwise there'd be no end to the unfinished games. On the other hand, I do miss the nightmare-mode style of difficulty, severely missing from modern games. Possibly because respawning invisible monsters on the first level doesn't fit into today's genres.

Drakar

I dont know if ye got in on the xcom set for €2 deal a while back. I started it up to relive the wonder years of pc gaming, and was really shocked at how poor it was when I had to remove the rose tinted specs. Not just graphically, but gameplay wise. As a gaming society, I think what we expect from games has changed dramatically.

20goto10

Kharn wrote: »

You know what'd really put a nail in the coffin for PC gaming? Native Keyboard and Mouse controlling support for consoles. FPS would suddenly become properly playable for those of us who didn't grow up on Halo and Strategy games would finally be a viable option for consoles.

I don't mind the controllers on my 360 though, they're not bad - I feel more or less the same about the PS3. I miss games mods - how many of us have stuck at a game because someone came up with a cool new idea for it? QuakeWorld, Counter Strike, Day of Defeat, DoTA, etc - all mods and all top notch stuff. It's just not accessible to do these things for Consoles and anyway, the companies behind some of the bigger games aren't interested in letting you have at it anymore anyway.

Games are a lot shorter (it seems) than they used to be. RDR even felt short for the sort of game it is now that I'm thinking about it. Seems like I got through it in no time and I don't really expect to get more than 1 or 2 days out of the single player of most of what I buy anymore. Multi-player can't be the only way to keep you interested - see the mods stuff above

However, as someone else mentioned above, it does seem to be about just doing enough work getting the next title out as quick as possible without it being a flop these days and to be fair, that's not just in gaming. I'd say that extends to a lot of society in general - we're expected to be good consumers and consumers need product, so why wouldn't they just keep giving us what we want?

Adding keyboard and mouse to a console would simply make it a crap low spec pc that can only play games. Know if they come out with role playing games on kinect - that would really spell trouble for the pc.

The most annoying thing about pc games is the variation in hardware. You need to update your hardware every 12 months in order to get the best from the latest games. With consoles you can play safe in the knowledge you are seeing the game in it's full glory. There is if course still the variation in broadband speeds but I don't think that is an issue anymore in Ireland.

Monotype

20goto10 wrote: »

The most annoying thing about pc games is the variation in hardware. You need to update your hardware every 12 months in order to get the best from the latest games. With consoles you can play safe in the knowledge you are seeing the game in it's full glory. There is if course still the variation in broadband speeds but I don't think that is an issue anymore in Ireland.

If you bought a PC three years ago with the same specs as a console and want to play a game that comes out today on all platforms, it will still play as good as the console. Unless it's badly coded.

I don't see how the option to upgrade is a negative thing, unless you need to see a game in its full glory - in which case you'll never pick the console version.

There's only a few games in recent times where you needed newer hardware - a few DX10 only titles were released over that past while.

oceanclub

20goto10 wrote: »

You need to update your hardware every 12 months in order to get the best from the latest games. With consoles you can play safe in the knowledge you are seeing the game in it's full glory.

Oh jesus, where do I even begin with this one....

P.

marco_polo

Monotype wrote: »

If you bought a PC three years ago with the same specs as a console and want to play a game that comes out today on all platforms, it will still play as good as the console. Unless it's badly coded.

I don't see how the option to upgrade is a negative thing, unless you need to see a game in its full glory - in which case you'll never pick the console version.

There's only a few games in recent times where you needed newer hardware - a few DX10 only titles were released over that past while.

Yeah I have a HD4870 that is over a year old and I can see very very few game on the horizon that it won't be capable of playing at a very high level / max of detail for at least the two years. Probably make an unnesscessary upgrade anyway if I start to feel left out of the DX11 eye candy revolution.

Upgrading is addictive :pac:.

Dara Robinson

Monotype wrote: »

... where's this thread wandering off to...

The thread is going where the concerns of modern PC gamers are. The reality is that most people here feel that games have gotten easier to the detriment of the genre and I think that what people are talking about. One of the best examples of the was SWG for me. SWG was a game full of flaws but the reality is that it was on a solid base and just needed to be finished. However the games company gave into demands to dumb it down and make things easier and it was a disaster. So much so they felt the need to make drastic changes in a almost complete over-hall which actually killed the game. However as if to prove that the original game was a sold and worth while game a bunch of programmers got together and created SWGEMU which is a SWG revival where they are creating everything from scratch them selves. Its looking good so far.

20goto10 wrote: »

The most annoying thing about pc games is the variation in hardware. You need to update your hardware every 12 months in order to get the best from the latest games. With consoles you can play safe in the knowledge you are seeing the game in it's full glory. There is if course still the variation in broadband speeds but I don't think that is an issue anymore in Ireland.

Mate, sorry but that is a very very incorrect statement. I built my current machine 6 years ago. I have updated once about a year or so ago. The now runs AMD 64 3800+, 3 gig of DDR ram and a HD4350 and I am still playing pretty new games like FEAR, Crysis, MW2, Assassins Creed, Mass Effect 2 and more. The reality is that most modern games need mediocre hardware because most people cant afford to update every 2 years. Now you want to play with 100fps on full graphics and high rez yea you will need to but thats not a requirement simply a want. Big difference.

oceanclub

Monotype wrote: »

I don't see how the option to upgrade is a negative thing, unless you need to see a game in its full glory - in which case you'll never pick the console version.

Just one example; Just Cause 2 on the console is the equivalent of medium settings on the PC, and is also locked at 30 frames per second. Whereas my 3-year-old PC can play it at the highest settings, and even with vsync on I get 60 frames a second.

(And yes it looks incredible.)

P.

Liber8or

20goto10 wrote: »

With consoles you can play safe in the knowledge you are seeing the game in it's full glory.

Not true at all, as console games have to be altered, in terms of visuals, in order to achieve a stable and consistent frame rate. For example, I believe (may not be entirely accurate) Microsoft require all their games on Xbox 360 to be running at 60 FPS. Therefore, that affects the quality of the visuals as the 360 hardware is simply not capable of matching the intended design by the developers and maintain such a good frame rate.

If you want a perfect example, check out Battlfield Bad Company 2 on PC and 360. The difference is breath-taking. With regards to your comment on PCs requiring a hardware update every twelve months; not true at all.

A PC that is 2 years old now will still play todays latest games. Furthermore, and most importantly, they will play them at a much greater setting of graphics quality than any console. Also, do not be fooled by the apparent declaration of 1080p HD gaming on consoles. Sure, the resolution maybe 1920x1080 Progressive Scanning, but realistically it is only stretching textures of 576p on to that larger canvas which happens to be your TV or Monitor. Where as the PC, displays textures of that resolution when a game states it does. For evidence of this, walk up to your TV when you are playing a 1080p game and examine the blurry, edgy, and disproportionate textures. Now, do the same with a PC monitor. The quality is not lost by stretching the image because PC's do not do it.

As I said earlier though, consoles will never, ever surpass PCs because consoles were designed to be retard friendly. Very unfair on retards, because they can learn and adapt - something a console can not do. This is a mutually accepted, but not publically acknowledged agreement you adhere to when you choose a console over a PC. You will be given a product that will play games and what else, but you will never be able to change the quality of that game, the content of that game or how you choose to play that game. Freedom is a value given to PC gamers, but it comes at a price, a price some people are willing to pay. And as long as they do, PCs and PC gaming is going nowwhere.

Monotype

Dara Robinson wrote: »

The thread is going where the concerns of modern PC gamers are. The reality is that most people here feel that games have gotten easier to the detriment of the genre and I think that what people are talking about.

Yes, I think now that I think about it, some of the difficulty settings are quite poor. In many earlier games, the harder levels had strategically placed bad guys to get past, so it's quite a different experience. Many games today are lazy and the higher difficulties just means they need more bullets. I liked how Crysis handled it - on harder levels they spoke Korean instead of English amongst other things.
Puzzles are a bit easier too, but I think that games don't have as much of this
adventure style as the other thread talks about.

oceanclub

It would be interesting if games shops did run demo PCs showing games running on them. I think most console-only gamers have simply never seen a game running on a PC in all its glory. A bit like the way that, after watching a movie on DVD, it's hard to go back to watching videotape, I imagine such demos would change many console-only gamers' minds. Of course, there's no real economic interest in games stores doing this.

P.

Monotype

oceanclub wrote: »

It would be interesting if games shops did run demo PCs showing games running on them. I think most console-only gamers have simply never seen a game running on a PC in all its glory. A bit like the way that, after watching a movie on DVD, it's hard to go back to watching videotape, I imagine such demos would change many console-only gamers' minds. Of course, there's no real economic interest in games stores doing this.

P.

I'd love to see this, but as I said in a few other threads before, there just isn't the backing for the PC. People buy the consoles because that's what they see on tv. The console makers want to push their own respective platforms for money. Microsoft is more interested in the xbox as there's far more money to be made and they're not going to sell many more copies of windows; people already have it on their PCs. Though they may have a fight on their hands 10 years down the road if they're not careful.
Similarly, the game shops know that console games will sell the best and there's almost no second hand market for PC games lately so it's all about the money there too.

Liber8or

Monotype wrote: »

Similarly, the game shops know that console games will sell the best and there's almost no second hand market for PC games lately so it's all about the money there too.

Retailers have begun to wind down operations on selling PC games in their stores and this comes down to one major factor - digital distribution. Why should I fork out €45 on a PC game in-store when I can pay the same price or less on line? Furthermore, if I use STEAM and buy the game from them, then I never have to worry about losing my CD-Key or Discs. I am sure a marketing analyst can trace the trend of PC game sales in Retail shops against the widespread penetration of broadband in Ireland. This would reveal the fact that as Broadband became more readily available people turned to digital distribution for giving their money away.

However, I would like to see the following agreement set up so as to broker a deal between retailers and digital distribution hubs, such as D2D or STEAM. What if people could enter shops such as GAME and purchase STEAM keys? These keys can be entered into STEAM and you unlock your game. Therefore, kids who dont have credit cards could buy games from a retailer and still have the benefits of what STEAM has to offer.

Hmmm, I should patent that idea... :P

oceanclub

Monotype wrote: »

I'd love to see this, but as I said in a few other threads before, there just isn't the backing for the PC. People buy the consoles because that's what they see on tv. The console makers want to push their own respective platforms for money. Microsoft is more interested in the xbox as there's far more money to be made

Arf:

http://techrights.org/2009/05/03/microsoft-xbox-failure-departure/

A year or so ago, Information Week revealed that Microsoft had lost about $7 billion in its XBox business alone. It seems to be one of the best-guarded secrets of Microsoft.

Go figure - they cannibalise their PC business in order to boost a loss-making console.

P.

Dara Robinson

not a bad idea but that would require a revival of PC game enthusiasm in 12yr olds. And they are all inferior dirty console peasants :P what can we do :rolleyes:

Monotype

Liber8or wrote: »

However, I would like to see the following agreement set up so as to broker a deal between retailers and digital distribution hubs, such as D2D or STEAM. What if people could enter shops such as GAME and purchase STEAM keys? These keys can be entered into STEAM and you unlock your game. Therefore, kids who dont have credit cards could buy games from a retailer and still have the benefits of what STEAM has to offer.

That has been done in a way with some games. Not fully digital, but half way. E.g., you could go in and buy a copy of UT3 and later register it on steam and use their services. What I think is a pain in the hole is when you buy a hard copy game only to find that you need to use steam to use it anyway.

20goto10

oceanclub wrote: »

Oh jesus, where do I even begin with this one....

P.

Nice constructive comments there, thanks for your input. For the record, I'm not suggesting consoles better PC's. I'm saying what you get is as good as it gets on that platform. There's no jittery "I need a new graphics card" sh!te going on. Just stick the game in and play. There's a simplicity to it, even though PC is obviously more powerful (didn't think I needed to state the obvious but clearly its needed).

Monotype

oceanclub wrote: »

Arf:

http://techrights.org/2009/05/03/microsoft-xbox-failure-departure/

Go figure - they cannibalise their PC business in order to boost a loss-making console.

P.

I knew that they make a loss at the beginning to get the consoles off the shelves but I thought with the value of technology falling and all those games they'd have made it by now. I can't image they'd be doing any better now than at the time of that article.

I suppose it's the red rings of death that are dragging them down as mentioned, cutting corners has cost them dearly.

Liber8or

Monotype wrote: »

That has been done in a way with some games. Not fully digital, but half way. E.g., you could go in and buy a copy of UT3 and later register it on steam and use their services. What I think is a pain in the hole is when you buy a hard copy game only to find that you need to use steam to use it anyway.

True, that is in use. Infact I bought Metro 2033 the other week because I knew it was STEAM unlockable. Got home, registered the key, and then threw away the box. :P

I think it could be implemented more. This way, retailers might see a growth in business from PC customers and STEAM would have representation in the real world and not just the online one.

oceanclub

Monotype wrote: »

I knew that they make a loss at the beginning to get the consoles off the shelves but I thought with the value of technology falling and all those games they'd have made it by now.

Well, they make license fees from the games, but the consoles themselves are huge loss-leaders (unlike the Wii, which makes a small profit on each console). I presume they keep telling themselves that, at some point, things will turn around.

P.

Liber8or

Just another thought that came to mind. Game developers are also under the influence of hardware specialists such as Nvidia, AMD, Intel, Creative, etc. These companies have their products specialised around catering for gamers. If PC gaming disappeared, then the only task they would be given would be to come up with the definitive piece of hardware to enter either a PS3/360/Wii. Only one version will be made, therefore only one type of GFX card/Processor would be required.

PC gaming affords these companies with a huge revenue in take, so they are invested in the PC gamin industry just as much as anyone else.

oceanclub

Liber8or wrote: »

True, that is in use. Infact I bought Metro 2033 the other week because I knew it was STEAM unlockable. Got home, registered the key, and then threw away the box. :P

I like having boxes! Thought admittedly, you can have too many (I'm just at the limit of the top of my Ikea workstation), and with 170 Steam games, I'm glad I don't have to keep _all_ those as boxes.

P.

Dara Robinson

20goto10 wrote: »

Nice constructive comments there, thanks for your input. For the record, I'm not suggesting consoles better PC's. I'm saying what you get is as good as it gets on that platform. There's no jittery "I need a new graphics card" sh!te going on. Just stick the game in and play. There's a simplicity to it, even though PC is obviously more powerful (didn't think I needed to state the obvious but clearly its needed).

Wow your not playing many Console games online of late I assume then mate. I know for sure that FFOW had a release date patch to fix issues with the game that were shipped. Plus since then there were a good few other patches. And its not the only time I heard that. Console gamers bitching about console games needing patching, which I think is a joke but anyways welcome to the corporate world of making a buck with as little input as possible