PC games, The end is nigh... is it?

Dara Robinson

I bloody well hate consoles!! Well not exactly ........ but the principle is something I do hate. Console games, and consoles them selves, are over priced, constantly behind the times and yet keep excelling compared to the steady decline of PC games.

I am a PC gamer (re: my early days I use PC as a loose term) and have been for over 20 years. Back in my time it was compact cassette and endless hours of trying to get that game to load only to be called for dinner and have to shut the machine off Arg!! But the games were there, ah Morris Miner dem be the times
But as I grew older games got better and better and as the industry got bigger things got better and better (and yea, I know the irony that the console industry had a large hand to play in there also, I know) and for a while there things looked to set sail for a wonderful land of Sunshine, Rainbows and Lollipops and I was in bliss but along came the explosion of consoles and the corporate fat cats saw a way to make more money (ie Brand dependant gaming, exclusive game rights, short product life, etc) so they devoted their energy into console games and less and less into PC related games.

Now look, I am well aware that consoles are not all to blame (although they do have a part to play here also) as piracy and so is also to blame but the reality is that PC's will always be more advanced than consoles and this allows PC games to be better and better and push the boundaries of graphics, physics and so on and yet most of the energy goes into console exclusive games.

Ok, so to get to the real point of what I am on about. I have been off the grid for a few years not playing that many games and was let go last year and went straight back into Eve Online (an excellent MMO if you dont already know) and I then went back into College last September so again I stopped playing. Here I am now, summer has given me more time then I know what do to with and yet there does not seem to be that many good and high end games out there.

Is the industry in decline as I am thinking? Is the end nigh? Will the future of PC gaming be MMO's? You tell me

Fallen Buckshot

Nah PC games and gaming are not going anywhere as long as the console makers arent listening to the console users .. ive been a pc and console gamer for years and im well dissapointed (bought a Xbox360 this year) at the lack of options #1 being connected to the internet but no web browser ? and #2 the limited apps that you can use ie: Facebook/Twitter you can post and view posts but no loading pics checking links etc .. what a pantload... not to mention paying 10-20 quid more for the same game that costs 40 quid PC version..ontop of paying for an xbox live sub that apparently does feckall but pad MS's wallet

Monotype

A lot of the games for PC are really crap lately. Well a lot of games are crap lately. The console world is always going to do better as long as there's so much control over them and with the amount of backing. They're pretty much cash machines in the eyes of the developers and not many are willing to put the extra effort into a good PC game.

jaykhunter

Recently watched Pachter talk about this. Not counting the ~12 million WoW customers, PC games (including Steam) account for ~7% of all videogame sales. So game developers just make games for the platforms that'll make them the most money (i.e. consoles). Seems as there's just not enough of ye buying PC games. Most people don't have high-end --or even decent-- PCs that would consider gaming; although you'll get a high concentration of those who do on the PC forum on boards.ie!! Of that minority; I'd wager a lot of them don't want to/know that they can play with a keyboard and mouse; sure even with the Wii you see that most people don't want a 'proper' controller; just to wave their hand(s) about!

I think that since MS bring out all their big games on PC (Halo, Gears etc); and some third party games (Ass Creed); which have all the bells and whistles mind u!, and that the MMO games is really a thriving PC market; we'll not ever see the end of PC gaming, but it really is becoming a niche market.

So yes, PC gaming is in a serious decline, the end is not nigh, and yes, MMOs have cornered the PC market!


One thing that sucks about being a console gamer, and not a PC gamer, is the modding. I bloody love seeing the mods people make for games, like Arkham Asylum.

smcgiff

Monotype wrote: »

A lot of the games for PC are really crap lately. Well a lot of games are crap lately. The console world is always going to do better as long as there's so much control over them and with the amount of backing. They're pretty much cash machines in the eyes of the developers and not many are willing to put the extra effort into a good PC game.

Yeah - the PC market as a whole is not benefiting from absolutely tragic games coming out. To think we had games like Blade Runner and Gabriel Knight several years ago and now we have offerings that give excrement a bad name.

jaykhunter

Monotype wrote: »

A lot of the games for PC are really crap lately. Well a lot of games are crap lately. The console world is always going to do better as long as there's so much control over them and with the amount of backing. They're pretty much cash machines in the eyes of the developers and not many are willing to put the extra effort into a good PC game.

Wow I don't know what 2009 you've had but mine's been amazing! Playing through Mario Galaxy 2 at the moment, it's fantastic.

PogMoThoin

To me all games are going down hill, they're becoming too easy, childish and are aimed at a younger audience. Every game has stupid fookin achievements

jaykhunter

PogMoThoin wrote: »

To me all games are going down hill, they're becoming too easy, childish and are aimed at a younger audience. Every game has stupid fookin achievements

LOL that's bitter and hilarious. Poor guy, most gamers have too many awesome games to play. Maybe it's a PC thing.

Gummy Panda

There is a lot of cool indie games these days that you don't see on shop shelves. AFAIK torchlight never got a disc release and is an awesome game. Better then some of a big budget games I've played these days.

Also i find that PC games with online have long lasting communities then console counterparts. If a game is good, it will be played for years e.g. starcraft / diablo. Consoles seem like flavour of the month sometimes. It always whats the next big release.

Problem is that publishers like the fotm of buyer.

PogMoThoin

jaykhunter wrote: »

LOL that's bitter and hilarious. Poor guy, most 12 year olds have too many awesome games to play. Maybe it's a PC thing.

FYP

oceanclub

jaykhunter wrote: »

Recently watched Pachter talk about this. Not counting the ~12 million WoW customers, PC games (including Steam) account for ~7% of all videogame sales

Since Valve don't release sales figures, how does he know?

(Honest question; I sincerely would like to know if he has actual figures.)

As for PC gaming dying; well, I've been hearing that years, but still have too many games to play. Valve are now launching Steam on the Mac as well, so obviously they think that gaming on home computers has a long way to go.

P.

Monotype

Gummy Panda wrote: »

There is a lot of cool indie games these days that you don't see on shop shelves. AFAIK torchlight never got a disc release and is an awesome game. Better then some of a big budget games I've played these days.

Very true. I haven't tried torchlight, but I've been trying a few more indie games recently half-expecting to be disappointed, but was quite impressed by the polish and imagination.

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Also i find that PC games with online have long lasting communities then console counterparts. If a game is good, it will be played for years e.g. starcraft / diablo. Consoles seem like flavour of the month sometimes. It always whats the next big release.

Also true. I like games which have a long life (e.g., unreal tournament series, elder scrolls) -half of the game is the fact that you can mod it.
Console games are often about getting your money and trying to get more of it ASAP. The only 'modding' you see is a €15 map pack on top of your already extortionately priced game.

Dara Robinson

oceanclub wrote: »

As for PC gaming dying; well, I've been hearing that years, but still have too many games to play. Valve are now launching Steam on the Mac as well, so obviously they think that gaming on home computers has a long way to go.

IMHO Steam is a problem not a solution. Steam causes so many problems for gamers who buy through them. I am a moderator for THQ and the best example I have is Frontlines: Fuel of War. I not only modded for Kaos but I also provided the tech support there while THQ were in the process of setting up their new dept and the flooding of problems created by Steam were incredible. I mean tbh the game was plagued with issues anyways but people with steam had issues that no one else did.
Plus its a resource whore and I hate the principle that I have to have another bloody program running on my PC just so I can play a game. When I am gaming I turn EVERYTHING off!! I want to get every last drop out of my machine and the last thing I want is some software I dont even want running in the background checking for new game deals I dont want and seeing who is online. Fook that

Yea, I do agree with the PC game communities. They can be long lasting. There is still a Total Annihilation community out there that play the game regularly. And thats and old one.
Console's seem to be all about the buck, how little work do we need to do so we can get this out the door, onto the shelves and not have it flop. Was a huge issues at Kaos tbh and caused a lot of problems internally. (Hence all the new staff in there). Although if my cousins fiancée read this he would ring my neck as he works for Disney exclusively on console games lol

TBH I hope things get better as hardware gets cheaper and better as I love playing single player games. I do love MMO's but they are just too time consuming and can end up taking over your life, a pit I have fallen into more than once.

Maximilian

jaykhunter wrote: »

LOL that's bitter and hilarious. Poor guy, most gamers have too many awesome games to play. Maybe it's a PC thing.

I can't remember the last time I played a game as brilliant as Thief II or Deus Ex etc. I have to agree with Pog. There doesn't seem to be much depth or originality to games these days.

Dara Robinson

Theif II and Deus Ex, 2 of the best games I ever played.

One of the surprises of late for me was Mass Effect 2, well worth a play and most certainly worth the money imo and Bethesda need to pull the finger out, I want another Elder Scrolls game

jaykhunter

Please don't fix my posts.

Pachter's a (former? laywer) videogame analyst who makes his living advising investors. I'd imagine his figures are rock solid. You'd have to ask him or do research on him. I'd imagine he knows people in Valve and every big VG company.

Maximilian wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I played a game as brilliant as Thief II or Deus Ex etc. I have to agree with Pog. There doesn't seem to be much depth or originality to games these days.

the UFC game is extremely deep; Street Fighter IV too, and SMG2 has a lot of platforming ideas I've never experienced before. So enjoyable! And it's hard Red Dead not doing anything for ya?

Maybe consider WoW

Jazzy

im liking dara robinson. his ideas intrigue me and i wish to subscribe to his newsletter

Dara Robinson

I want to play red dead but I bloody well cant cause those lazy feckers wont make it for PC. :mad::mad::mad: To the moon Alice, to the moon!!

Gummy Panda

Dara what genres do you like and what games do you have?

Maybe there is a game you missed when playing EvE online that you have forgot about.

oceanclub

jaykhunter wrote: »

Please don't fix my posts.

Pachter's a (former? laywer) videogame analyst who makes his living advising investors. I'd imagine his figures are rock solid.

http://play.tm/news/29605/pachter-pc-gaming-in-decline/

Unless Pachter has access to the sales figures for Steam then his claim that the PC games market is in decline may be a tad premature

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178044

Randy Pitchford Says Michael Pachter Was "Wrong" About Dire Borderlands Predictions

I'd never heard of the guy before; coming from a country where property market analysts were all wrong, it's quite possible this analyst is talking nonsense too:

http://www.bingegamer.net/2009/who-the-****-is-michael-pachter/

Steam does not release sales figures. Unless this guy is lowering himself Tom Cruise styles down air-vents in Valve HQ, he doesn't know either.

P.

oceanclub

Dara Robinson wrote: »

I want to play red dead but I bloody well cant cause those lazy feckers wont make it for PC. :mad::mad::mad: To the moon Alice, to the moon!!

Ah, they said they wouldn't release GTAIV on PC either. I'd wait and see - looks like a great game with mouse control.

P.

Maximilian

jaykhunter wrote: »

the UFC game is extremely deep; Street Fighter IV too, and SMG2 has a lot of platforming ideas I've never experienced before. So enjoyable! And it's hard Red Dead not doing anything for ya?

Maybe consider WoW

Mere kiddie games. And as for WOW, been there done that. Haven't tried Red Dead - is it not just GTA with primitive infrastructure?

Guess I'll just have to wait for Civ 5, Arma expansion and Carrier Command.

PogMoThoin

jaykhunter wrote: »

the UFC game is extremely deep; Street Fighter IV too, and SMG2 has a lot of platforming ideas I've never experienced before. So enjoyable! And it's hard Red Dead not doing anything for ya?

All games my 11 year old Son plays, aimed at kids, no substance to them at all. Except for Red Dead, that looks good, but no pc for now

Dara Robinson wrote: »

I want to play red dead but I bloody well cant cause those lazy feckers wont make it for PC. :mad::mad::mad: To the moon Alice, to the moon!!

Same, it looks good, I have a 360 but detest playing with a controller, it'll come out on pc eventually like gta4, its not new though, its just a reskin of GTA

Dara Robinson

oceanclub wrote: »

Ah, they said they wouldn't release GTAIV on PC either. I'd wait and see - looks like a great game with mouse control.

P.

Thats what I was thinking, looks like a great game.
I currently have installed:
Fallout3
The Settlers 7
METRO 2033
COD Modern Warfare 2
Plants Vs Zombies

Staring me in the face I have:
Hitman - Blood Money
Crysis
Gears of War (not played yet actually, had some kind of issue and gave up, been meaning to try again)
COD 4
Fear 1 & 2
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Assassin's Creed 1 & 2
Splinter Cell Double agent
Dungeon Siege + expansion
Dragon Age + Expansion
Mirrors Edge
Dark Messiah (might and Magic)
Never Winter Nights + an expansion or 2
Civ 4
Rise and Fall
Hidden and Dangerous Box

... you get the idea

But recommendations would be good

I dont have a state of the art PC anymore but I am buying a new PC at Xmas and a M11x Lappy in the next few weeks so future is bright on that end

Gummy Panda

The Witcher Enchanced Edition.

Boxed version is about €25 in GAME. Steam version is €15.

Metro 2033.... hmmm that reminds me i need to play this game.

cherryghost

PogMoThoin wrote: »

To me all games are going down hill, they're becoming too easy, childish and are aimed at a younger audience. Every game has stupid fookin achievements

Rant 10 times about gaming within a year on boards.ie.

PogMoThoin has earned the Angry Man acheivement.

:pac::pac::pac:

PogMoThoin

cherryghost wrote: »

Rant 10 times about gaming within a year on boards.ie.

PogMoThoin has earned the Angry Man acheivement.

:pac::pac::pac:

You're obviously too Young to remember the good ould days.........................

Once upon a time we got good games which kept us entertained for ages, now all we get is remakes, reskins and dumbed down half-attempts. I used to get weeks of fun from just the single player partion of a game, even the not-so-great ones were entertaining. I can't think of a game released in the last 6 months worth paying full price for.

Dara Robinson

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Once upon a time we got good games which kept us entertained for ages, now all we get is remakes, reskins and dumbed down half-attempts. I used to get weeks of fun from just the single player partion of a game, even the not-so-great ones were entertaining. I can't think of a game released in the last 6 months worth paying full price for.

Ah the good ould days
Christ I played Dungeon Keeper 2, NWN (and the fore runners) for months and Diablo & Diablo 2 for even longer. hmm... maybe an old school July would be in order, nothing but pre-noughties games for a month :pac::pac::pac:


I have to say, if Bethesda release an MMO, as rumoured, I might have to go back to MMO's. They make some of the best games I have ever played.

Overheal

PC Games will never "Die"; The Market will always be there, with the Demand, and thus the supply; Piracy has and always will be 2 steps ahead of the market but in that between-space theres still profit to be had. Bleeding Edge Performance; Bleeding Edge Profits; and Bleeding Edge Piracy. In a nutshell.

Then of course you have all that filler where indies and smaller developers actually focusing on making classics like Homeworld or Civilization or Starcraft or Quake. The Consoles compliment the PC market very well, and they've even surpassed it, but it will not be in our foreseeable future I think that PC gaming will die; especially with the ever-present drive for Open Platforms.

Sisko

jaykhunter wrote: »

the UFC game is extremely deep; Street Fighter IV too, and SMG2 has a lot of platforming ideas I've never experienced before. So enjoyable! And it's hard Red Dead not doing anything for ya?

PogMoThoin wrote: »

All games my 11 year old Son plays, aimed at kids, no substance to them at all. Except for Red Dead, that looks good, but no pc for now

I can't help but jump in here Pog , as a fellow PC gamer mind you who generally agrees with most things you say when this argument comes up.

But your ridiculously wrong regarding Street Fighter. Its actually one of the most adult orientated games around while still being 'family friendly'.

I'm in danger of going off on along rant explaining this history and scene of this fighting game so I'll stop my self.

Check this :

In part the game's success in my world can be attributed to combination of circumstance and convenience. As we grow older and responsibilities make ever-greater demands of us (and, after all, who else does Street Fighter IV primarily appeal to than the 25 to 35-year-old males driven into its arms by memories of the forebears it so carefully tributes) so the appeal of concentrated entertainment rises. This is a game that can be enjoyed in a 15-minute leisure window, delivering maybe 10 highly charged, satisfying and diverse matches in the time it would have taken me to plod through an RPG's loading screens. While today's gaming culture conflates value with expanse, my life's circumstances ensure the most rewarding and valuable games are those that can be savoured in chunks in between changing a baby's nappy, or hoovering the lounge. Brevity is often a virtue.

But also note you have to understand this is an arcade game, aimed at people who played street fighter 2 in arcades 15+ years ago. Before your 11 year old was born. Its as much targeted for the 30+ as it is for the 10 +

I understand your position most people in Ireland are not aware of the arcade scene and community's across the world built up around the game and depth of the game , most see it as that game they played as kids back on the snes/mega drive. I was one of those people till I played SF3 online on my PC yeah thats right, someone took the arcade version of street fighter 3 3rd strike, added it to an emulator and added network connectivity , a lobby system , and in game chat system, and so forth, pretty much a better match making system then I see in console games today. **** like this is why I love the PC.

Guess what? The best version of SF4 is the PC version , I was even able to mod and edit character costumes using photoshop. You can do so much more and I can only imagine how awsome the online matchmaking system would have been if it was made for PC online. But noooooooooooo it was just a ****ty port from the 360 version. Cause consoles are where the money is, which results in worse games then we would have, if they were pc exclusive , instead SF4 for the PC had ****ty GFWL for online play, which was far worse then what some fighting game fan coded by himself to allow people to play the emulated arcade version of SF3 online for free.

Consoles put limiations on the potential of games. Limiations only people who have experienced PC gaming can see.

Its the way it is, it sucks, but PC gaming won't die. PC gamers tend to buy one epic game and play that for ages, or the niche game that just would not work on a console. Where as console gaming is all about buying the sequal to the next over hyped game month after month. Or just relaxed casual gaming.

Dytalus

I can't ever see the PC dying. Many games are best played on the PC, and I know of many people who love a good old LAN game with everyone on their laptops communicating. I've yet to see that on consoles outside of gaming centres.

I, for example, will never play an RTS on a console, and I much prefer FPS gaming on a PC as well. The PC has its own niche, which is rapidly growing smaller because consoles are so much simpler. No need to update the technology, no need to install your games or preserve hard drive space. There will always be people who prefer the capabilities of the PC over the abilities of a console, not the least of which is that computers advance so much faster.

Monotype

Dytalus wrote: »

No need to update the technology, no need to install your games or preserve hard drive space

Those aren't really true any more.

Mr Freeze

Dara Robinson wrote: »

Theif II and Deus Ex, 2 of the best games I ever played.

Two amazing games from the old days, Thief and Deus Ex, was gutted when Through The Looking Glass went out of business.

Really hope they don't mess up Thief 4, no details at all yet what its like! Hopefully it will be as good as the 1st two. 3rd was good, but not a patch on the 1st two.

Jazzy wrote: »

im liking dara robinson. his ideas intrigue me and i wish to subscribe to his newsletter

Here! Here!

20goto10

We need more innovation. wii and Kinect are a step forward but we need more. Whatever happened to virtual reality? We should all be putting on helmets and "jacking in".

Shiminay

You know what'd really put a nail in the coffin for PC gaming? Native Keyboard and Mouse controlling support for consoles. FPS would suddenly become properly playable for those of us who didn't grow up on Halo and Strategy games would finally be a viable option for consoles.

I don't mind the controllers on my 360 though, they're not bad - I feel more or less the same about the PS3. I miss games mods - how many of us have stuck at a game because someone came up with a cool new idea for it? QuakeWorld, Counter Strike, Day of Defeat, DoTA, etc - all mods and all top notch stuff. It's just not accessible to do these things for Consoles and anyway, the companies behind some of the bigger games aren't interested in letting you have at it anymore anyway.

Games are a lot shorter (it seems) than they used to be. RDR even felt short for the sort of game it is now that I'm thinking about it. Seems like I got through it in no time and I don't really expect to get more than 1 or 2 days out of the single player of most of what I buy anymore. Multi-player can't be the only way to keep you interested - see the mods stuff above

However, as someone else mentioned above, it does seem to be about just doing enough work getting the next title out as quick as possible without it being a flop these days and to be fair, that's not just in gaming. I'd say that extends to a lot of society in general - we're expected to be good consumers and consumers need product, so why wouldn't they just keep giving us what we want?

Overheal

I think theres a bit more to it than keyboard and mice. Again with Open Platform. Its great that on a console you can get a homogenous gaming experience from one person to the next but there will be always be a crowd out there that wants to have their own customizable platform. And people are already doing that with consoles; the only difference is they're being stopped at every turn from doing so.

I mean, what if I don't like the voice chat on Games for Windows Live/Xbox Live? On an Xbox, aren't you f*cked? Whereas on a PC I can just get my friends on a private Ventrilo or Mumble server if thats what I want to do.

Its that ever-expansive kind of versatility that a closed platform will never compete with. Though from what I hear wasnt Xbox starting to over in-game overlay for game guides and ****? How much time did that take and how many people did they have to pull off other projects just so they could code the console version of Alt+Tab and Firefox? I mean even the little things, look how slow companies like Netflix are to be able to get their service onto console in the same way they have it on PC. Last time I used an xbox you had to use a PC to add the movie to your queue before you could go to your xbox and watch the ****ing thing.

oceanclub

"You know what'd really put a nail in the coffin for PC gaming? Native Keyboard and Mouse controlling support for consoles."

Would it, though? I suppose there are people who have their XBox/whatever connected to a monitor at a desk, but for most, it's a couch affair. It might sway some people, but kill the PC gaming market? Doubt it, specially as most of those who game on PC do so because the variety of games on the PC differ to consoles (I've absolutely no interest in sports games, very little in racing games).

At the end of the day, I really doubt that PC gaming is going away until the PC itself dies. Does it have less of a percentage of the entire market share? Yes, definitely, but hardly surprising considering the competition and how cheap consoles are these days. But it's still a platform where small innovative developers can launch their products without the need for a distributor or paying licence fees.

Despite the fact that Macs are expensive, a niche market and not upgradable, there's still a Mac game market, for example; big enough that Valve have ported their back-collection to the Mac and launched Steam for OSX.

P.

PogMoThoin

Not sure if keyboard and mouse would work on consoles with tv's? The idea of a controller is that You can relax on the couch 6 feet from the tv, with kb & m You need to be upright and would need a desk for the kb & m. Very few console gamers play on a monitor

BTW, I forgot myself earlier, I do play with a controller. I use a TrackIR for Arma2, now there immersion a console can never ever give (and a vibrant modding community) making it the saving grace for pc gaming for me at the moment, the only game worth upgrading my pc for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ

jaykhunter

PogMoThoin, would you mind listing out all the games you've played in the last 2 years? I'd like to know if you actually play a lot of games that consoles and PCs have to offer, or if you just dismiss a lot of the (first on) console games immediately.

Maybe the current generation of games aren't to your particular liking (just as I don't like FPS games) but that doesn't mean that there aren't current-gen games are deep/have substance/enjoyable beyond the scope of 12 year olds. (I'm 27 by the way.)

Would you agree that online matchups (like in Street Fighter) might stop a game from becoming "too easy"? (There's always an American online that can beat my ass)

PogMoThoin

jaykhunter wrote: »

PogMoThoin, would you mind listing out all the games you've played in the last 2 years? I'd like to know if you actually play a lot of games that consoles and PCs have to offer, or if you just dismiss a lot of the (first on) console games immediately.

Maybe the current generation of games aren't to your particular liking (just as I don't like FPS games) but that doesn't mean that there aren't current-gen games are deep/have substance/enjoyable beyond the scope of 12 year olds. (I'm 27 by the way.)

Would you agree that online matchups (like in Street Fighter) might stop a game from becoming "too easy"? (There's always an American online that can beat my ass)

Yeah, I will do when i get back to my pc. You'll be very suprised, I install lots, but rarely finish

jaykhunter

oceanclub wrote: »

http://play.tm/news/29605/pachter-pc-gaming-in-decline/


http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178044



I'd never heard of the guy before; coming from a country where property market analysts were all wrong, it's quite possible this analyst is talking nonsense too:

http://www.bingegamer.net/2009/who-the-****-is-michael-pachter/

Steam does not release sales figures. Unless this guy is lowering himself Tom Cruise styles down air-vents in Valve HQ, he doesn't know either.

P.

Thanks for replying! First and third links don't work. Is this my connection?

I'm wager that since America has the most reporters/analysts from games that we read about, it'd have the most people that are wrong about some things. At least he admitted he was wrong - and has repeatedly referenced it on his segment on GT. Just because something risky bucks the trend (like Dragon Age being successful) doesn't mean it was a bad prediction. He's just going by what he knows. And since he's made a fortune off it, i'd tend to believe his word over people who don't make a living doing it.

Like i'd tend to take Trump's opinion on business more heavily than the guys who made Soda Stream!

jaykhunter

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Yeah, I will do when i get back to my pc. You'll be very suprised, I install lots, but rarely finish

if you have the time, if you could include a short note about what you liked/didn't like on each game that'd be awesome.

elnino35

I am also a fan of PC gaming, particulary the football/champ manager series of games(very addictive!)....but the problem for most people is not having the required specifications to run the game properly, due to larger demands on ram, processor speeds etc...this is especially true of the footy manger 10 game, which requires a minimum 2.0ghz processor amongst other things.This in turn means many people can't run the games on laptops,(2 friends of mine can't play it) and is losing a lot of potential gamers, who don't want to upgrade their system just to play a game!! I myself upgraded last year so I could have the minimum requirements needed, and with the new release of FM 11 out in a couple of months, I dread to think of what spec will be required this time around:eek:...this is a problem that console gamers don't really face, it's more or less just plug and play straight from the box with a huge variety of games to choose from( good and bad!!), and a hell of lot less hassle.
In summary PC games are more inventive and you can definitely immerse yourself in one more so than a console game, but I think people are switching away because of these problems.

oceanclub

jaykhunter wrote: »

He's just going by what he knows. And since he's made a fortune off it, i'd tend to believe his word over people who don't make a living doing it.

By that logic, everyone should have listened to Liz O'Kane's views on the property market for the past decade rather than independent amateur predictors of the bubble collapse.

It's quite possible that this guy is right more times than he is wrong and hence has made money, but has a blind spot for the PC market. The fact is, he doesn't know the figure for Steam sales. Many analysts like him still pay attention to games charts compiled solely from over-the-counter retail, which probably gives a relatively accurate reading for console games but is useless for PC.

For example, every week, the Guardian publishes such a chart (by GfK Chart Track) which is worse than useless as it entirely distorts games sales. I pointed out that, since Xmas, I've bought 22 games via digital download (mainly Steam), 3 by online retail, and 1 from over-the-counter retail.

P.

jaykhunter

lol, Liz...Do independent amateurs get it right more often then professionals? Anyway professionals are fallible, and amateurs don't get flack for being wrong. If Steam don't release figures, surely everyone has a blind spot for PCs? In the 6-7% statement, he did actually mention going by "boxed packaging" but included Steam. So either he knows or it's his best guess.

We're getting bogged down in semantics, anyway. Whatever comes of attacking the guy's credibility as an argument, his points are still valid. (Excluding MMOs of course) The PC videogame market is in the vast minority compared to the console market; so more developers make games for consoles. There might be a billion PCs/macs in people's houses but only a very small percentage of those would be capable of/are running current gen games. PC games sales vs pirated PC games is well above the average for home console systems, so developers don't focus on a PC port primarily. Going by the trend of the Wii's sales, a majority of (at least, console) gamers don't want a controller, even a keyboard and mouse; they just wanna waggle their hands.

Surely if Steam was selling exceptionally well, they'd be on to more publishers to make more new, exclusive games? Is that the case? (I don't know) Or do Steam just buy the game and all the rights to it, so they make all the profits?

oceanclub

jaykhunter wrote: »

Surely if Steam was selling exceptionally well, they'd be on to more publishers to make more new, exclusive games? Is that the case? (I don't know) Or do Steam just buy the game and all the rights to it, so they make all the profits?

Well, it's pointless arguing back and forth, since neither of us - or the analyst dude - knows these figures. It's safe to say that if games on Steam aren't selling well, it's strange that Valve would decide to invest in porting their entire back catalogue to Mac for Steam.

You list a bunch of negatives about the platforms, which - with caveats(*) - I would agree with. My bugbear here is just about basing on PC sales on over-the-counter retail figures. It's a well-known phenomenon, he's not the only analyst doing it and it's a bizarre blindspot - like the way the music industry ignored download figures for years.

(*) The caveats are:

(a) It's a bit unfair to compare PCs to the _entire_ console market. You've really got to compare like with like; PC vs a particular platform. With that regard, it isn't doing that badly. The main thing isn't whether PC is beating any particular platform or getting a certain percentage; it's whether or not it's worth a developer's time to either port or create exclusive games for it. As long as they're doing that and making a profit, the actual market share is a bit irrelevant.

(b) At this point in the console cycle, even PC a few years old can handle _most_ ports with ease. Apart from GTAIV, which a is a processor hog, my PC, which I haven't upgraded in 3 years, can play most games on highest settings at the moment. (I'm in the strange position of wanting to upgrade but not being able to justify it to myself.) Sure, a 5 year old PC might have problems or one with an onboard graphics card. But then it was worse in the old days; games requires constant upgrading and a knowledge of autoexec files to launch. It's nothing new that playing the latest PC games is a niche market. Not all of us want to sit in front of the TV waggling a controller for a party game.

P.

Blowfish

Farmville has over 80 million players (that works out more than the worldwide Wii sales and more than the 360 and PS3 sales put together). What console has a game that comes even close to that?

Stating that there is a smaller market for PC games is blatently false. The market is there, it's just a completely different style of market to the console one. The PC will never die as a gaming platform as it's already cornered several huge markets, namely MMO's, casual games (I'd be willing to bet far more people play Solitaire than do Halo) and competitive RTS/FPS games.

Whether the PC gaming market is a bigger moneymaker than the console one is an entirely different question and one that's actually impossible to answer due to the lack of transparency when it comes to the revenue generated by Steam, most MMO's and even most casual games.

jaykhunter

Agreed oceanclub. Could you hazard a guess at how many (legitimate, non-Pirated) PC gamers there are? (excluding flash games, games that come free on windows etc) lol

That's a great statistic, Blowfish! I wouldn't consider Farmville a game, more a flash/java app that can be secretly played while working! I purposely also left handheld 'consoles' out of the discussion. I suppose Farmville could count as a casual game, like Wii Fit (which I'd class as a program/app) like the majority of Wii owners. I suppose i'd also factor in, how many of those 80 million are actually paying for it?

I've always made sure to point out "excluding MMOs" since PCs have cornered that market of at least 12 million. I didn't think it would be semantic but when I say games I don't mean internet browser games, I mean games (in general) that cost millions of dollars to make with current gen graphics*. If "Solitaire HD" on 360, PS3 and PC, and PC gets a sizeable portion of those sales, I'd say there's a thriving market (relative to the console titles). It's an excellent point though, the casual/flash gamer is definitely a thriving community/market that I can only see expanding on PC.

I don't know anything about RTS games so I'll take your word for it. FPS games, just taking MW2 as an example, sold ~11 million copies on the 360 alone, but (an estimated) 270,000 paying copies on PC. Even if the actual number was 10 times larger it'd still pale in comparison. Similarly, L4D2 with 2.7 million sales on the 360, and (estimated) 2-300,000 paying copies on PC. Do other FPS games have the opposite trend?

Gosh it must aggravate you PogMoThoin, that your medium for games focuses on MMO's, casual games (eg solitaire, farmville) and competitive RTS/FPS games.


* = please don't use that statement as an excuse to bash console graphics with tales of your 'budget models' have better graphics!!

Gummy Panda

You could look at WoW. Bliz released the celestial steed mount on pet store and made a lot of money.

Fancy Horse Makes Blizzard $2 Million in Four Hours

The Celestial Steed is also known as The Retarded Horse :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjuFpQ3EeA

Can't believe people queued and paid for that stupid thing

EDIT: didn't see exclude mmo part.

jaykhunter

As Blowfish mentioned, there's a lot of irons in the fire for PC games (WoW being the biggest money-spinner) so PC games will never die. The genres of games most-available (MMO, RTS, FPS +/- casual) might not be your or many people's cup of tea, it's not mine anyway.

Blowfish

jaykhunter wrote: »

I don't know anything about RTS games so I'll take your word for it. FPS games, just taking MW2 as an example, sold ~11 million copies on the 360 alone, but (an estimated) 270,000 paying copies on PC. Even if the actual number was 10 times larger it'd still pale in comparison. Similarly, L4D2 with 2.7 million sales on the 360, and (estimated) 2-300,000 paying copies on PC. Do other FPS games have the opposite trend?

I probably should have expanded on that point. When I said competitive games, I meant games played in tournaments. Starcraft, Counterstrike, WoW, Warcraft III, FIFA (PC version), Quake, C&C, Doom, UT and lots more are all played competitively. The only console game that manages to be included in this is Halo and even then, it's mainly just North America rather than anywhere else.