Gormley's Fluoride Hypocrisy: "Fluoridated Water Causes Cancer in Children!" But You'

Kadongy

bc dub wrote: »

I wouldnt say it makes people stupid, but dosile. I once heard the flouride in our water makes us dosile as a nation. Anyone ever heard that one?

I read it in post 18 of this thread.

bc dub

cheers, can you elaborate on it becuase if you haven't guessed, that's what I'm really looking for...

but orange street lights? that's a new one!

Kadongy

oic I misunderstood how you meant that

bc dub

been doing some netsearching. i think Orange is the best colour but I'm open to any conspiracies going

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy

King Mob

Kadongy wrote: »

There are numerous studies supporting this fact, however you are a little selective with your information: The fluoride levels in the less intelligent populations are typically several times those in Irish water.

Could you post links to some of these studies?

Kadongy

King Mob wrote: »

Could you post links to some of these studies?

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q=fluoride+iq&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

There are loads..

Mahatma coat

the Lights thing might have legs, its a rather interestin thought, Streetlights are made of Sodium Flouride in a lot of places, and then thers the glow itself, does it pacify??? is it all part of a sneeakey Lizzzzzzzzard plot :eek::D:D:D

bc dub

LIZARDS? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Annunaki's gonna be pished!

MASTER...of the bra

Is it all the flouride (keeping us docile) that stopped us taking to the streets when the Fianna Failures were destroying the country?

Di0genes

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

Is it all the flouride (keeping us docile) that stopped us taking to the streets when the Fianna Failures were destroying the country?

And yet there is Fluoride in the Greek water supply.

Mahatma coat

Really??

The PHC's list counts Greece and Romania as part of the 39. Neither of these countries, however, practice fluoridation (Martin 1991). The PHC list also counts the Phillipines as one of the 39, despite the fact that the only areas in the Phillipines with fluoridated water are US military bases which comprise just 0.014% of the population (Martin 1991).

MASTER...of the bra

Di0genes wrote: »

And yet there is Fluoride in the Greek water supply.

Are you surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre?

I hate when people post stuff guessing.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5
Link 6 Is six enough?
Link 7 Little Map

Over 70% drink fluoride with their water in Ireland. Highest in Europe and not far behind being No 1.

Another link...an oldie.

Use control+F to find.

Lefticus Loonaticus

Just been reading through www.nofluoride.com , this passage caught my attention.

"People dosed with fluorosilicic acid live almost entirely in North American and Australian cities and Ireland -- approx 2% of the world's population. In the US these are not 'national programmes' -- they are municipal ones with very patchy take-up usually driven by the fluoride-industry with local dental support and minimal local debate. Over 60 US cities have discontinued fluoridation since 1990, many after more than 30 years. It is significant that US producers of fluorosilicic acid are still the most ardent supporters of a policy which saves their industry almost $600M a year(6) through the avoidance of toxic waste disposal charges."

What can one say? Absolutely sickening and scandalous. We need a huge anti-fluoride movement that will force the current government to give it up. We also need an inquiry to see who is getting what money and from where.

Is it not so painstakingly obvious that some scumbag corperation is making a profit off putting toxic waste into our drinking water and the gov is going along with it.

Also found this little gem on http://www.thenhf.com/article.php?id=1271 . An article and letter response to the sunday times in 2009. It basically shows that we are the most fluoridated country in the world and as a result we have an epidemic of osteoporosis.

Di0genes

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

Are you surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre?

I hate when people post stuff guessing.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5
Link 6 Is six enough?
Link 7 Little Map

Over 70% drink fluoride with their water in Ireland. Highest in Europe and not far behind being No 1.

Another link...an oldie.

Use control+F to find.

Today there are about 300 million people all over the world benefiting from water fluoridation. A further 300 million people drink water which naturally has the correct amount of fluoride. Fluoride toothpaste is used by about 450 million people, and about 60 million use fluoridated salt. So over billion people around the world, now benefit from fluorides. Countries with programmes for topping up the natural fluoride in the water where it is too low include the United States, Canada, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, Spain, Greece, Switzerland, Finland, Ireland, the former USSR and the United Kingdom to name a few

http://www.doh.gov.za/department/fluoridation.html

It wasn't a guess.

Dave!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19772843

Abstract

AIM: This was to present a summary of the evidence from systematic reviews of the effectiveness and safety of water fluoridation.

METHODS: A search for relevant systematic reviews was conducted using the terms Fluoridation [Mesh] OR "water fluoridation" OR fluoridation OR (water AND fluoride) and was run from 01/01/2000 to 17/10/2008 in Pubmed, Embase, the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews and the Database of Abstracts of Reviews of Effects in the Cochrane Library. The quality of the systematic reviews was assessed using Scottish Intercollegiate Guideline Network (SIGN) methodology checklists for systematic reviews. Websites of guideline organisations were also searched for relevant evidence-based guidelines, which were appraised using the AGREE instrument.

RESULTS: Of the 59 publications identified, 3 systematic reviews and 3 guidelines were included in this review. While the reviews themselves were of good methodological quality, the studies included in the reviews were generally of moderate to low quality. The results of the three reviews showed that water fluoridation is effective at reducing caries in children and adults. With the exception of dental fluorosis, no association between adverse effects and water fluoridation has been established. Water fluoridation reduces caries for all social classes, and there is some evidence that it may reduce the oral health gap between social classes.

CONCLUSION: Water fluoridation, where technically feasible and culturally acceptable, remains a relevant and valid choice as a population measure for the prevention of dental caries.

This is the same paranoid crap that makes people oppose vaccination.

WakeUp

Dave! wrote: »

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19772843


This is the same paranoid crap that makes people oppose vaccination.

So the many medical people who have come out and spoken against putting this stuff in our water, doest that make them "paranoid" too? Is everybody paranoid? Thats an extremely basic simplistic view point you have there if you dont mind me saying. Like anything there are two sides to every story. In the interest of fairness, and to show it isnt just "normal" people who are "paranoid" this is Dr. Paul Connet, Prof of Chemistry, St. Lawerence University. Have a listen to what he has to say about fluroide in our water system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo6SnvmMP9k

Dave!

Yeah and did you know that there are some PhD's and MD's who think that vaccination is evil? And who believe that homeopathy makes sense? And there are biologists who don't support the theory of evolution? etc

There are fringe groups to support every crazy ideology. When it comes down to it, most mainstream scientists who have reservations about fluoridation have them because they think that populations should have the choice, rather than have the decision made for them. That's reasonable. But there are no public health concerns, because fluoridation has been shown to be safe, and effective, many many times.

WakeUp

Dave! wrote: »

Yeah and did you know that there are some PhD's and MD's who think that vaccination is evil? And who believe that homeopathy makes sense? And there are biologists who don't support the theory of evolution? etc

Irrelevant, the topic is fuloride in our water system, not vaccination or homeopathy.

There are fringe groups to support every crazy ideology. When it comes down to it, most mainstream scientists who have reservations about fluoridation have them because they think that populations should have the choice, rather than have the decision made for them. That's reasonable. But there are no public health concerns, because fluoridation has been shown to be safe, and effective, many many times.

How do you know there are no public health concerns? Are you qualified to make such a statement so matter of fact? He doesnt seem crazy to me at all he does however come across as concerned, knowledgeable, articulate and genuine. I take it you didnt watch the video and listen to what he has to say yet you are prepared to make statements like the one you made. There are many medical people with reservations about fluroide in our water system it isnt just normal people. So terms like "paranoid" & "crazy" are basic and simplistic in my opinion and if there is something more to what mainstream/authorities are letting on then statements like that dont help. Two sides to every story.

Kadongy

Dave! wrote: »

Yeah and did you know that there are some PhD's and MD's who think that vaccination is evil? And who believe that homeopathy makes sense? And there are biologists who don't support the theory of evolution? etc

There are fringe groups to support every crazy ideology. When it comes down to it, most mainstream scientists who have reservations about fluoridation have them because they think that populations should have the choice, rather than have the decision made for them. That's reasonable. But there are no public health concerns, because fluoridation has been shown to be safe, and effective, many many times.

It's not fringe groups nor a crazy ideology in this case.

Numerous countries which once used it have discontinued fluoridation of the water supply:

Federal Republic of Germany (1952–1971)
Sweden (1952–1971)
Netherlands (1953–1976) - in fact they banned it.
Czechoslovakia (1955–1990)
German Democratic Republic (1959–1990)
Soviet Union (1960–1990)
Finland (1959–1993)
Japan (1952–1972)

As well as the Netherlands, it is also illegal in Sweden.

If you think constantly ingesting fluoride is safe then that is fine; you should be be to do that. You should respect that others want to avoid consuming fluoride. Putting it in the water supply removes that choice [bar extreme and impractical measures].

Incidentally, there appears to be a connection between vaccination and cot death. It is not paranoid or unreasonable to question the use of vaccination either. - Though as the previous poster pointed out that is a non-sequitor anyway.

Dave!

WakeUp wrote: »

Irrelevant, the topic is fuloride in our water system, not vaccination or homeopathy.

How do you know there are no public health concerns? Are you qualified to make such a statement so matter of fact? He doesnt seem crazy to me at all he does however come across as concerned, knowledgeable, articulate and genuine. I take it you didnt watch the video and listen to what he has to say yet you are prepared to make statements like the one you made. There are many medical people with reservations about fluroide in our water system it isnt just normal people. So terms like "paranoid" & "crazy" are basic and simplistic in my opinion and if there is something more to what mainstream/authorities are letting on then statements like that dont help. Two sides to every story.

Yeah there's the side with the facts/evidence/research, and then the other side.

I'm not qualified to decide if there are public health concerns, but scientists and public health organisations are, so I defer to them, and they report that at the levels present in our drinking water, there is no health risk.

Here's a report by the Australian Health and Medical Research Council.

And here's a comprehensive report by the World Health Organisation.

Kadongy wrote: »

It's not fringe groups nor a crazy ideology in this case.

Numerous countries which once used it have discontinued fluoridation of the water supply:

Federal Republic of Germany (1952–1971)
Sweden (1952–1971)
Netherlands (1953–1976) - in fact they banned it.
Czechoslovakia (1955–1990)
German Democratic Republic (1959–1990)
Soviet Union (1960–1990)
Finland (1959–1993)
Japan (1952–1972)

As well as the Netherlands, it is also illegal in Sweden.

If you think constantly ingesting fluoride is safe then that is fine; you should be be to do that. You should respect that others want to avoid consuming fluoride. Putting it in the water supply removes that choice [bar extreme and impractical measures].

Incidentally, there appears to be a connection between vaccination and cot death. It is not paranoid or unreasonable to question the use of vaccination either. - Though as the previous poster pointed out that is a non-sequitor anyway.

As I said, those governments and scientists who do not endorse fluoridation do so on the basis that the public should have a choice whether to ingest it or not. It's an ethical decision; there are no public health concerns. I have no problem with those concerns, I just don't think they're important given the benefits and lack of problems associated with fluoridation.

There is no causal connection between vaccination and cot death. Claiming otherwise is irresponsible and disgusting. Vaccines save millions of lives every year, and reduced uptake because of scaremongering like this leads to dead children.

Lefticus Loonaticus

Our new minister for health has a tough task ahead of him. He has to deal with the disaster that is our health service, and one could easily argue its in a worse state than our finances.

But among all the health issues we face as a country, there is one that needs urgent action. It is soo secretive than every chance to have it publicly debated is shot down and demoralized, soo scandalous that the inevitable lawsuits from most of the population will not ever be paid out due to the sheer size and so detrimental to the physical and mental well being of irish people that if it was happening in any other european country, those health ministers would be lynched by the side of the road.

So many people are affected, and in so many different ways, that in fact, it may well be the biggest medical and scientific coverup in the history of the state.

What are these health problems? Allergies, arthritis, bone disease, brain impairment, cancer, immune system problems, respiratory problems, dental decay and other dental problems, kidney issues and many more. The list goes on and on.

What is causing these problems? Water Fluoridation.

What is water fluoridation? It is the dumping of toxic waste substances into the public water supply for the economic benefit of those who do not wish to pay to have it disposed of properly, thus saving themselves billions anually to the detriment of unknowing populations, particularly Ireland.

How is this allowed to happen? Corruption, negligence and stupidity are all combined to make this scandal. The real leverage and thrust of the pro fluoride lobby comes from dentists and their respected organizations. Since they are the authority on teeth and dental issues, they can get away with muder on the topic, with little or no resistance.

Let there be little doubt that this scam is primarily orcastrated by the toxic waste industry, with the government and the dentists federations playing second fiddle. Follow the money.

I am sure this thread will be unmercilessly attacked and there will be attempts to either close it or move it to the CT forum. If this is going to be the case then a moderator should explain him or herself fully before doing so. This is not a conspiracy theory, it is 110% real and factual and is a very serious political issue which James Reilly(among many others) raised while he was in opposition.
Look here -
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2010/03/30/00130.asp
This is the latest piece of officialism I could find on the issue at a high level. It is from march 30th 2010 and Harney does not answer either question.

Walter Graham of the National Health Federation Ireland (NHF Ireland) recently gave a short talk about water fluoridation in Ireland. The facts and figures when laid out pretty much speak for themselves and they are shocking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecO5ykxT-AY . Even such small pieces of information like Holland banning fluoride and then changing their constitution to prevent it from ever happening again should be ringing some tectonic alarm bells for us in Ireland.

But who will hear these alarm bells? John Gormley heard them, but once he got into office somthing happened..........Will James Reilly encounter the same wall of tretchery that John Gormley did? And if so, must we take action as a population to protect ourselves against this most serious of threats?

The time to pounce on this issue will be when there is incoming debate about the water system/charges. Make no mistake about it, there is no debate here and there are no politcal obstacles, fluoride is leaving our water system forever and is not coming back. Wheather this happens now or in 10 years time is a matter for us as people. The only opposition to this will come in the form of uninformed people, bought off lobby groups and sinister individuals within certain departments who are in charge of the fluoridation program. This is no opposition to be scared of, they can and will be trampled on with ease once the public is aware of the situation and refuses en mass to pay any water charges until every last drop of rat poison is removed.

Ill leave you with a letter from the examiner last monday, please enjoy and send your newly elected TD a letter regarding your disgust that this situation has being going on and is still going on.

---

"For decades now sodium hexafluorosilicic acids (aka fluoride) has been poured into our water supply without the consent of the people and thereby force-medicating the population. (Has anyone ever been given a prescription for this medicine?)

Fluoride is a waste by-product of the fertiliser and aluminium and phosphate industry and is a Part II Poison under the UK Poisons Act 1972. The fluoride agent used in this state is a fertiliser waste product imported from a fertiliser factory in Holland, where fluoridation is banned by law. It also contains arsenic, mercury, lead and chromium.

According to Indian research published in Biological Trace Element Research (April 2009) blood fluoride levels were significantly higher in patients with osteosarcoma than in control groups. Osteosarcoma, a rare bone cancer, occurs mostly in children and young adults.

A 2005 study conducted at the Harvard School of Dental Health found that fluoride in tap water directly contributes to causing bone cancer in young boys. A 2006 Chinese study found that fluoride in drinking water damages children’s liver and kidney functions.

In 1992, the New Jersey State Department of Health released the results of a study which found six times more bone cancer among males under the age of 20 living in communities with fluoridated water.

These studies go back decades, showing the link between fluoride and cancer, many of which are contained in Christopher Bryson’s excellent book The Fluoride Deception.

Around 75% of Ireland’s water supply is fluoridated, the most fluoridated country in Europe.

The Irish government has never requested the free informed consent of the population to give them fluoride in their water supply. This is contrary to the Council of Europe’s Convention on Human Rights and Biomedicine (1997)."

Michael Dorgan
Douglas
Cork


Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/letters/fluoride-in-water-a-health-hazard-147360.html#ixzz1GUQJGo00

---

Lefticus Loonaticus

Just as I suspected. They will published letters about this in national newspapers but when it comes to the net it gets heavily censored.

There are some very serious questions to be asked about whos side the moderators are on here. They are supposed to be neutral and boards.ie is supposed to be for the people.

Time and time again the fluoride debate is either closed or is shafted to the CT section even though it clearly belongs in the health or political forums.

The only logical explaination for this is that boards.ie is an additional aparatus of the Irish state and wants to keep a lid on our most explosive scandal.

A sad day for boards, and a worse day for ireland.

cavedave

Lefticus Loonaticus

Around 75% of Ireland’s water supply is fluoridated, the most fluoridated country in Europe.

What areas are not fluoridated?

If some counties or areas did have less "Allergies, arthritis, bone disease, brain impairment, cancer, immune system problems, respiratory problems, dental decay and other dental problems, kidney issues and many more." that should be fairly obvious from an analysis of illness rates.

Penn

Threads merged. Lefticus, if you have a problem with the moderation of the site, either PM the relevant mods/admins or start a thread on the Feedback forum. Moderator decisions are not to be discussed on-thread.

WakeUp

Dave! wrote: »

Yeah there's the side with the facts/evidence/research, and then the other side.

That’s my whole point. You are only looking at one side of the story. The “other” side have “facts” “evidence” “research” too which I will get to shortly. Your mind is already made up but claiming one side is completely right and the other side isn’t, based on what you have been told, and don’t know as fact, is ridiculous in my opinion.

I'm not qualified to decide if there are public health concerns, but scientists and public health organisations are, so I defer to them, and they report that at the levels present in our drinking water, there is no health risk.

So just to be clear here your opinion is based on what you are being told. That’s fair enough but you can’t claim or state “there is no health risk” on what you have been told. Fact is you don’t know for certain youre just repeating what you have been “told”, no more than I know for certain what the other side is saying. But there is plenty of information out there claiming fluoride is not safe or healthy. Many health and medical professional have concerns, documented, so what we do "know" for certain is that many qualfied people in the profession disagree and dispute official policy when it comes to fluoridation and its supposed safety/benefits.

Here's a report by the Australian Health and Medical Research Council.

And here's a comprehensive report by the World Health Organisation.

That’s all well and good but I can produce reports/opinions/facts to the contrary. Here are a few….

EPA Scientists ( US Environmental Protection Agency ) oppose fluoridation.

The EPA scientists concluded….” For governmental and other organizations to continue to push for more exposure in the face of current levels of over-exposure coupled with an increasing crescendo of adverse toxicity findings is irrational and irresponsible at best.”-link

That article touches on a study conducted in China showing that….” low levels of fluoride exposure in drinking water had negative effects on children's intelligence and dental health and confirmed the dose-response relationships between urine fluoride and IQ scores as well as dental fluorosis.”- link

ADA (American Dental Association ) warn about the dangers of giving babies fluoridated water – link

24 studies have reported an association between fluoride exposure and reduced IQ. The fluoride levels in water in these studies range from 0.88 - 9.4 ppm. link

Even "mainstream" articles admit fluoride is a toxin....

Time Magazine – Top 10 common household toxins – Fluoride

“Neurotoxic and potentially tumorigenic if swallowed; the American Dental Association advises that children under 2 not use fluoride toothpaste” - link

And that is just scratching the surface.

As I said, those governments and scientists who do not endorse fluoridation do so on the basis that the public should have a choice whether to ingest it or not. It's an ethical decision; there are no public health concerns. I have no problem with those concerns, I just don't think they're important given the benefits and lack of problems associated with fluoridation.

That is just incorrect, no two ways about it. It isnt just an "ethical" issue as you put it. And you keep saying "there are no public health concerns" so please stop being disingenous by claiming such things when the fact of the matter is you dont know this for sure.

Kadongy

Dave! wrote: »

As I said, those governments and scientists who do not endorse fluoridation do so on the basis that the public should have a choice whether to ingest it or not. It's an ethical decision; there are no public health concerns. I have no problem with those concerns, I just don't think they're important given the benefits and lack of problems associated with fluoridation.

So the ethical thing to do is to cease water fluoridation, out of respect for people's right to choose, dispite the fact you personally dont consider fluoridation to be a risk.

Lefticus Loonaticus

cavedave wrote: »

What areas are not fluoridated?

If some counties or areas did have less "Allergies, arthritis, bone disease, brain impairment, cancer, immune system problems, respiratory problems, dental decay and other dental problems, kidney issues and many more." that should be fairly obvious from an analysis of illness rates.

I dont know, I dont think the government makes geographical maps of such things.

They have done conclusive studies in china on two seperate villages, one with fluoride and the other without. The fluoridated village's children had an 8 point IQ deficit compared to the other. www.thenhfireland.com/?p=383

It is also very likely that much of what we have diagnosed as osteoporosis and different types of arthritis may well in fact be skeletal fluorosis. Skeletal fluorosis mimicks other bones diseases and is hard to identify. The dept of health has never done and will never do the statistics with regard to skeletal fluorosis because it will turn up somthing that they dont want to hear.

Oh, and we have an epidemic of dental fluorosis which is conveniently brushed under the carpet. This of course is directly related the bone issue. Imagine the amount of hip replacements these guys will need in 40 - 50 years.

So, to answer you question, it is very obivous to alot of people that fluoride is an evil scummy substance that should be done away with. Of course we will all cling to our selective statistics and cry murder otherwise. To be quiet honest though, the pro fluoride arguement has not a leg to stand on and they would be completely destroyed if the debate ever went mainstream. All they can manage to do is to ridicule the opposition and they cant even explain why fluoride is actually being dumped into the water.

Can anyone answer the question? Why is fluoride being put into water when we all know at this stage that it actually harms teeth? "Because its good for teeth", that is just not gonna cut and flies in the face of all reason considering the negative effects of it that are being consistently proved.

It is unbelieveable in this day and age, that a small number of people can tamper with our drinking waters supplies to the extent that they can actually drop poison into it and they are answerable to no one. Not only will this have to stop, but safely measures will have to be put in place to prevent anything like this from happening again. If i was caught out the back of somones house dropping toxic waste into their water i would surely go to prison.

cavedave

Lefticus Loonaticus

I dont know, I dont think the government makes geographical maps of such things.

ok if you can get me a map of where is fluoridated I'll try do a geospatial analysis to see how it correlates with cancer

King Mob

So hang on, what are you guys saying fluoride does?
Lower IQ?
Cause teeth problems?
Cause cancer?
All of the above?

Lefticus Loonaticus

cavedave wrote: »

ok if you can get me a map of where is fluoridated I'll try do a geospatial analysis to see how it correlates with cancer

Id love to have a map aswell, i would assume it would cover the most of the 26 counties since fluoridation is almost complete in most areas and most definately in higher population zones.

With regards to cancer in general, taken from http://www.thenhfireland.com/?page_id=32.

---

According to the National Toxicology Program, “the preponderance of evidence” from laboratory ‘in vitro’ studies indicates that fluoride is a mutagen (a compound that can cause genetic damage).
It is generally accepted that if a substance can induce genetic damage there is a heightened risk that it could cause cancer as well.
While the concentrations of fluoride causing mutagenic damage in the in vitro studies is higher than the concentrations found in human blood, there are certain “microenvironments” in the body (e.g. the bones) where the concentrations of fluoride can accumulate to levels comparable to, or in excess of, those causing mutagenic effects in the laboratory.
Of particular concern are a series of studies indicating that fluoride can cause osteosarcoma (bone cancer) in both fluoride-treated male rats and boys under the age of 20 living in fluoridated areas. Osteosarcoma is a rare, but deadly, form of cancer that strikes primarily during the teenage years.
Of additional concern are recent studies indicating that:

• Primates (humans and great apes) are more susceptible to the mutagenic effects of fluoride than rodents (rats);
• An increased rate of mutagenic damage was detectable in humans exposed to only modestly elevated levels of fluoride; and
• Workers exposed to fluoride in industry – in the absence of other known carcinogens such as PAH – suffered an increased occurrence of bladder cancer.