Bikers, and why they die.

dunsandin

Hi all. Driving to Rathnew yesterday, in fast lane, overtaking. Got past, checked the mirrors, slapped on the indicators and started to move across left. At the last second, a lad on a bike swung around the car I'd overtaken and started to undertake me. I slammed the steering across to the right and missed him by inches - he flew away down the inside lane. Seeing as I was driving the biggest van you can get on a car licence, if I'd hit him he was toast, and it really shook me up-it was just too close. Last year, driving to work, in a long line of traffic, a bike pulled out and started to overtake all 10 of us, up a blind hill. A van came over the brow of the hill, and the biker went head on into it. Bike was unrecognizable, rider was killed instantly. Not pretty.
I rode a bike for years as a young fella, and always recognised that in a crash, I'd be worst off, so tried my best to hold it together. Several of my friends were killed off bikes, and after I crsahed when I hit ice, going slow, I jacked it in as a mugs game. Another mate was killed racing at the TT a few years back. My point is this, do many bikers not realise that if you stack it, you are toast, what the feck is with the blasting through traffic, reckless overtaking and undertaking? Anyone else had a similar experience? Bikers scare me, cos I dont want to be the one to wipe them out.

Gumbo

just like car drivers, there are some bad apples in the biking community. not all are like that but its our job as a car driver to try to be that bit more aware of their presence and drive defencably around them and to check and then double check for them when changing lanes, pulling out at junctions etc.

dunsandin

I am-to the point of overdoing it-I always look for them, always pull in to let them past and hate when on is behind me - I know they are like a baloon waiting to be burst, I would not want it on my concience that I hit someone through carelessness, but WTF, how do they not see how vulnerable they are? My area has lost literally dozens of young guys to motorbike crashes and yet the new ones come along and seem blissfully unaware. Whats that all about? Is it a macho thing? Whats macho about a wheelchair? Thats how my dads best friend ended up off a BMW 1200, and he was as careful as they come. I think they are suicide rigs.

FruitLover

Correct, all bikers are dangerous and irresponsible, and every single one will eventually be killed in an accident of their own doing. What a valid point and well-thought-out post.

Now where did I put my rolleyes....

CaraFawn

Bikers are supposed to drive like cars and not swing between cars.

I agree that car drivers should know how to drive with bikes around, but then when you got bikers overtaking you doing 80-100 km/h coming from nowhere in the city center like I see every single day in Phoenix Park and other roads close by, they have no excuse.

A sad way to die

Run_to_da_hills

Most bike fatalities involving a cage, the cage is usually at fault.

CaraFawn

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most bike fatalities involving a cage, the cage is usually at fault.

What do you mean?

dunsandin

FruitLover wrote: »

Correct, all bikers are dangerous and irresponsible, and every single one will eventually be killed in an accident of their own doing. What a valid point and well-thought-out post.

Now where did I put my rolleyes....

Well, I rode one for 4 years, I have lost 3 close friend to bike crashes, my wifes sister is a widow with 2 kids to the TT, so go ahead and roll your eyes, you probably ride one like the wind, but they seem like a load of sh1te to me. Be as smart as you like, you can go talk to my mates Dad, who spends his days thinking about his son who left a dent in the side of an oil tanker with his head. And another mates mum, he hit the doddery parish priest at 80 kph as the rev. pulled out without looking. John cut the priests roof in half with his head. The priest walked away, I stood as we filled in Johns grave. I do not get the attraction. If my boys come home with one, I will burn it.

Gumbo

CaraFawn wrote: »

What do you mean?

if you were to pull the stats on motorcycle deaths, the car (cage) was at fault.


*cage = biker slang for cars

dunsandin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most bike fatalities involving a cage, the cage is usually at fault.

Who cares who is at fault? The outcome is the same. My two mates bought racers, both were keen bikers. They headed off to the TT, full of the joys of going racing. In the first race, 1 hit a wall at 100kph. The other sold his bike and cant look at one now. Roll your eyes mate. Nobody here was rolling theirs. My real point was this, do bikers not see how vulnerable they are, and ride appropriatly -eg control their lane, dont drive erratically, overtake sensibly? This is not an anti-biker rant. I agree most are hit by dumb car drivers, but why put yourself there?

Gumbo

dunsandin wrote: »

Well, I rode one for 4 years, I have lost 3 close friend to bike crashes, my wifes sister is a widow with 2 kids to the TT, so go ahead and roll your eyes, you probably ride one like the wind, but they seem like a load of sh1te to me. Be as smart as you like, you can go talk to my mates Dad, who spends his days thinking about his son who left a dent in the side of an oil tanker with his head. And another mates mum, he hit the doddery parish priest at 80 kph as the rev. pulled out without looking. John cut the priests roof in half with his head. The priest walked away, I stood as we filled in Johns grave. I do not get the attraction. If my boys come home with one, I will burn it.

thats all fair enough and very sad, my feelings go out to you on that one, but you cant tar all bikers with the same brush! as above, if it wasnt for stupic car drivers making stupid decisions alot of bikers would still be here today.

dunsandin wrote: »

Who cares who is at fault? The outcome is the same. My two mates bought racers, both were keen bikers. They headed off to the TT, full of the joys of going racing. In the first race, 1 hit a wall at 100kph. The other sold his bike and cant look at one now. Roll your eyes mate. Nobody here was rolling theirs.

your obviously on a rant mission, so maybe go for a 10 minute walk and get some fresh air to clear the head.

Tefral

There are two types of bikers

1. Those that have come off.
2. Those that will come off.

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

Most bikers are grand, but i seem to meet the worst of them driving to work everymorning, once every 2 months i see one ramming into the back of a car by the little roundabout by the esso in sandymount.

Gumbo

cronin_j wrote: »

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

its ok when the cars are stopped waiting at the lights and they filter by, but to do it at speed on in moving trafic is just not worth it, to what....save 1 minute off your journey time.

Squegee

Put any biker in a car and more often than not they're more competent than your average car driver.
Unfortunately there's always the stupid minority in every group

dunsandin

Its not at all a rant. I sweated buckets at the thought of hitting that lad in Rthnew, I know I would never forgive myself, I just want to understand what the thinking is, knowing the stats, For eg having kids, and still heading off on 2 wheels. Maybe Im going too deep on this, I have near misses daily with fools in cars, but I just saw how close that biker came to me mashing him, and it bothered me.

Gumbo

dunsandin wrote: »

Its not at all a rant. I sweated buckets at the thought of hitting that lad in Rthnew, I know I would never forgive myself, I just want to understand what the thinking is, knowing the stats, For eg having kids, and still heading off on 2 wheels. Maybe Im going too deep on this, I have near misses daily with fools in cars, but I just saw how close that biker came to me mashing him, and it bothered me.

that only makes you human pal, so dont worry about it. enjoy whats left of Friday night.....coz the weekends here

chughes

I commuted to Dublin city centre from North County Dublin for 8 years on a motorbike and while most motorcyclists were sensible, there were always a few cowboys whose recklessness was just mind boggling. Given that there is very little formal training, it's no wonder that people do stupid things.

I did the Fingal County Council Star Rider course not long after I got my first bike and I found it hugely beneficial and informative. In fact, I'm sorry it didn't cover more stuff like showing videos of the result of motorbike accidents. At present, all you need is a provisional licence, get your insurance, and off you go. It's madness that it's so easy.

There's also the mindset of the cowboy that is prepared to take risks. This is something that will be almost impossible to police. I know when I was on the bike, I assumed that everything with more than 2 wheels was out to get me and as a result, I drove defensively. By this I mean that I would assess an upcoming situation and if I perceived any risk I would hold off. If this sounds boring, well I have a wife and 3 kids and I sorta want to see the kids grow to adulthood and not become another statistic.

Sorry for going on a bit but this is a subject I feel strongly about. Motorbiking should be enjoyable but it's the most dangerous form of road travel and in any form of collision, a bike never wins.

dunsandin

Ill give you my experience- heading into town on a cold morning, hit black ice and went down like a sack of sh1t, slid 50 ft along the tarmac, shredding my a$$ and back, was so hurt I could not move, and was waiting for a car or truck to come around the blind bend to plough me out of it as I lay helpless in the middle of the road. None came. Eventually managed to roll into the verge. Sold scratched up bike next day. Don't want another. No cars involved, just Ice and gravity. Loved the freedom and style, hated the reality.

rev2.0

cronin_j wrote: »

There are two types of bikers

1. Those that have come off.
2. Those that will come off.

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

What a stupid comment to make! So every biker is gonna come off?? :rolleyes:

Whats wrong with filtering in stationary traffic?

P.C.

Today, on my way home from work, I was on the M50.

Was in the overtaking (outside) lane, stuck behind a van which was going below the legal speed limit - there was no traffic in the middle lane.
I pulled right over to the right hand side of the lane, and made sure he saw me - flashed my lights and all - still the van would not move over.

Does this mean that all van drivers are muppets - NO, but this particular one was.

Some people are muppets on bikes - most are not.

Tefral

rev2.0 wrote: »

What a stupid comment to make! So every biker is gonna come off?? :rolleyes:

Whats wrong with filtering in stationary traffic?

I hope you never dont, but the odds arent with you my friend...

Who said anything about the traffic being stationary?

smellslikeshoes

For every one of these stories that come from car drivers I could give 20 that I have experienced from my point of view as a biker. I've been pulled out on so many times as a biker it would make your hair turn grey. Car's regularly pull right out on me when I'm right in front of them, the only way to survive as a biker with how many cars pull out on you is to assume you're invisible and assume they are out to kill you.

Had an interesting experience just today when i had just stopped in traffic and a car that was parked on the left hand side parallel to me pulled right out on me like I wasn't there.

dunsandin

Can't agree that most bikers are safe. They are just lucky, for now. Safe or not, if a fool in a car, or even a piece of stone is in the wrong place, you are going down. I realise bikers love their rides, but, man, its a hiding to nothing.

dunsandin

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

For every one of these stories that come from car drivers I could give 20 that I have experienced from my point of view as a biker. I've been pulled out on so many times as a biker it would make your hair turn grey. Car's regularly pull right out on me when I'm right in front of them, the only way to survive as a biker with how many cars pull out on you is to assume you're invisible and assume they are out to kill you.

Had an interesting experience just today when i had just stopped in traffic and a car that was parked on the left hand side parallel to me pulled right out on me like I wasn't there.

You are right!!!! So why go there??????

P.C.

cronin_j wrote: »

There are two types of bikers

1. Those that have come off.
2. Those that will come off.

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

Most bikers are grand, but i seem to meet the worst of them driving to work everymorning, once every 2 months i see one ramming into the back of a car by the little roundabout by the esso in sandymount.

If I was to say - there are two types of car drivers
1.) Those that have written off a car.
2.) Those that will write off a car.

Would you be OK with that?

TJJP

kceire wrote: »

just like car drivers, there are some bad apples in the biking community. not all are like that but its our job as a car driver to try to be that bit more aware of their presence and drive defencably around them.

Eh - no it isn't. Each to their own car or bike. How can any of us pre-read the actions of a RD350 at full tilt? Three C's care, courtesy and consideration. None of that was evident in the OP's recitation of their experience.

FruitLover wrote: »

Correct, all bikers are dangerous and irresponsible, and every single one will eventually be killed in an accident of their own doing. What a valid point and well-thought-out post.

Now where did I put my rolleyes....

Fruitcake or fruitlover. Be real man, bikers take crazy risks, which is their prerogative if that’s their wish but OP was freaked out by the behaviour on the road. It isn’t all but there are a few......

kceire wrote: »

thats all fair enough and very sad, my feelings go out to you on that one, but you cant tar all bikers with the same brush! as above, if it wasnt for stupic car drivers making stupid decisions alot of bikers would still be here today.

I'm afraid you can, certainly these days. Try the N4 for a 'laugh'.... I’ve never seen anything like it from South Circular to Maynooth. Lunatics. Maybe that’s where OP is coming from?

kceire wrote: »

your obviously on a rant mission, so maybe go for a 10 minute walk and get some fresh air to clear the head.

Eh - no it seems not. That comment was unfair and unwarranted - retraction anyone?

dunsandin

P.C. wrote: »

If I was to say - there are two types of car drivers
1.) Those that have written off a car.
2.) Those that will write off a car.

Would you be OK with that?

But most walk away. Thats the difference. Dented tin is easily fixed.

Tefral

P.C. wrote: »

If I was to say - there are two types of car drivers
1.) Those that have written off a car.
2.) Those that will write off a car.

Would you be OK with that?

Not the same...

Not all crashes with cars end up writing off the car, even if the car was travelling at 50km/hr. Id love to see what a biker would look like if he hit a kerb or something travelling at 50km/hr.

I cant see this thread going anywhere fast to be honest..

Squegee

Sure Valentino broke his leg last weekend, what a shit biker!!!
Accidents will always happen, no disrespect OP but you can't tar all bikers with the same brush

P.C.

dunsandin wrote: »

Can't agree that most bikers are safe. They are just lucky, for now. Safe or not, if a fool in a car, or even a piece of stone is in the wrong place, you are going down. I realise bikers love their rides, but, man, its a hiding to nothing.

You need to leave the rant.
I am sorry that you came off your bike, but there is no need to go on a rant, and tell me that I am 'going down'.

My bike is NOT a hiding to nothing.

rev2.0

dunsandin wrote: »

But most walk away. Thats the difference. Dented tin is easily fixed.

Yet you fall off a bike and you'll never walk away??