Bikers, and why they die.

dunsandin

Hi all. Driving to Rathnew yesterday, in fast lane, overtaking. Got past, checked the mirrors, slapped on the indicators and started to move across left. At the last second, a lad on a bike swung around the car I'd overtaken and started to undertake me. I slammed the steering across to the right and missed him by inches - he flew away down the inside lane. Seeing as I was driving the biggest van you can get on a car licence, if I'd hit him he was toast, and it really shook me up-it was just too close. Last year, driving to work, in a long line of traffic, a bike pulled out and started to overtake all 10 of us, up a blind hill. A van came over the brow of the hill, and the biker went head on into it. Bike was unrecognizable, rider was killed instantly. Not pretty.
I rode a bike for years as a young fella, and always recognised that in a crash, I'd be worst off, so tried my best to hold it together. Several of my friends were killed off bikes, and after I crsahed when I hit ice, going slow, I jacked it in as a mugs game. Another mate was killed racing at the TT a few years back. My point is this, do many bikers not realise that if you stack it, you are toast, what the feck is with the blasting through traffic, reckless overtaking and undertaking? Anyone else had a similar experience? Bikers scare me, cos I dont want to be the one to wipe them out.

Gumbo

just like car drivers, there are some bad apples in the biking community. not all are like that but its our job as a car driver to try to be that bit more aware of their presence and drive defencably around them and to check and then double check for them when changing lanes, pulling out at junctions etc.

dunsandin

I am-to the point of overdoing it-I always look for them, always pull in to let them past and hate when on is behind me - I know they are like a baloon waiting to be burst, I would not want it on my concience that I hit someone through carelessness, but WTF, how do they not see how vulnerable they are? My area has lost literally dozens of young guys to motorbike crashes and yet the new ones come along and seem blissfully unaware. Whats that all about? Is it a macho thing? Whats macho about a wheelchair? Thats how my dads best friend ended up off a BMW 1200, and he was as careful as they come. I think they are suicide rigs.

FruitLover

Correct, all bikers are dangerous and irresponsible, and every single one will eventually be killed in an accident of their own doing. What a valid point and well-thought-out post.

Now where did I put my rolleyes....

CaraFawn

Bikers are supposed to drive like cars and not swing between cars.

I agree that car drivers should know how to drive with bikes around, but then when you got bikers overtaking you doing 80-100 km/h coming from nowhere in the city center like I see every single day in Phoenix Park and other roads close by, they have no excuse.

A sad way to die

Run_to_da_hills

Most bike fatalities involving a cage, the cage is usually at fault.

CaraFawn

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most bike fatalities involving a cage, the cage is usually at fault.

What do you mean?

dunsandin

FruitLover wrote: »

Correct, all bikers are dangerous and irresponsible, and every single one will eventually be killed in an accident of their own doing. What a valid point and well-thought-out post.

Now where did I put my rolleyes....

Well, I rode one for 4 years, I have lost 3 close friend to bike crashes, my wifes sister is a widow with 2 kids to the TT, so go ahead and roll your eyes, you probably ride one like the wind, but they seem like a load of sh1te to me. Be as smart as you like, you can go talk to my mates Dad, who spends his days thinking about his son who left a dent in the side of an oil tanker with his head. And another mates mum, he hit the doddery parish priest at 80 kph as the rev. pulled out without looking. John cut the priests roof in half with his head. The priest walked away, I stood as we filled in Johns grave. I do not get the attraction. If my boys come home with one, I will burn it.

Gumbo

CaraFawn wrote: »

What do you mean?

if you were to pull the stats on motorcycle deaths, the car (cage) was at fault.


*cage = biker slang for cars

dunsandin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most bike fatalities involving a cage, the cage is usually at fault.

Who cares who is at fault? The outcome is the same. My two mates bought racers, both were keen bikers. They headed off to the TT, full of the joys of going racing. In the first race, 1 hit a wall at 100kph. The other sold his bike and cant look at one now. Roll your eyes mate. Nobody here was rolling theirs. My real point was this, do bikers not see how vulnerable they are, and ride appropriatly -eg control their lane, dont drive erratically, overtake sensibly? This is not an anti-biker rant. I agree most are hit by dumb car drivers, but why put yourself there?

Gumbo

dunsandin wrote: »

Well, I rode one for 4 years, I have lost 3 close friend to bike crashes, my wifes sister is a widow with 2 kids to the TT, so go ahead and roll your eyes, you probably ride one like the wind, but they seem like a load of sh1te to me. Be as smart as you like, you can go talk to my mates Dad, who spends his days thinking about his son who left a dent in the side of an oil tanker with his head. And another mates mum, he hit the doddery parish priest at 80 kph as the rev. pulled out without looking. John cut the priests roof in half with his head. The priest walked away, I stood as we filled in Johns grave. I do not get the attraction. If my boys come home with one, I will burn it.

thats all fair enough and very sad, my feelings go out to you on that one, but you cant tar all bikers with the same brush! as above, if it wasnt for stupic car drivers making stupid decisions alot of bikers would still be here today.

dunsandin wrote: »

Who cares who is at fault? The outcome is the same. My two mates bought racers, both were keen bikers. They headed off to the TT, full of the joys of going racing. In the first race, 1 hit a wall at 100kph. The other sold his bike and cant look at one now. Roll your eyes mate. Nobody here was rolling theirs.

your obviously on a rant mission, so maybe go for a 10 minute walk and get some fresh air to clear the head.

Tefral

There are two types of bikers

1. Those that have come off.
2. Those that will come off.

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

Most bikers are grand, but i seem to meet the worst of them driving to work everymorning, once every 2 months i see one ramming into the back of a car by the little roundabout by the esso in sandymount.

Gumbo

cronin_j wrote: »

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

its ok when the cars are stopped waiting at the lights and they filter by, but to do it at speed on in moving trafic is just not worth it, to what....save 1 minute off your journey time.

Squegee

Put any biker in a car and more often than not they're more competent than your average car driver.
Unfortunately there's always the stupid minority in every group

dunsandin

Its not at all a rant. I sweated buckets at the thought of hitting that lad in Rthnew, I know I would never forgive myself, I just want to understand what the thinking is, knowing the stats, For eg having kids, and still heading off on 2 wheels. Maybe Im going too deep on this, I have near misses daily with fools in cars, but I just saw how close that biker came to me mashing him, and it bothered me.

Gumbo

dunsandin wrote: »

Its not at all a rant. I sweated buckets at the thought of hitting that lad in Rthnew, I know I would never forgive myself, I just want to understand what the thinking is, knowing the stats, For eg having kids, and still heading off on 2 wheels. Maybe Im going too deep on this, I have near misses daily with fools in cars, but I just saw how close that biker came to me mashing him, and it bothered me.

that only makes you human pal, so dont worry about it. enjoy whats left of Friday night.....coz the weekends here

chughes

I commuted to Dublin city centre from North County Dublin for 8 years on a motorbike and while most motorcyclists were sensible, there were always a few cowboys whose recklessness was just mind boggling. Given that there is very little formal training, it's no wonder that people do stupid things.

I did the Fingal County Council Star Rider course not long after I got my first bike and I found it hugely beneficial and informative. In fact, I'm sorry it didn't cover more stuff like showing videos of the result of motorbike accidents. At present, all you need is a provisional licence, get your insurance, and off you go. It's madness that it's so easy.

There's also the mindset of the cowboy that is prepared to take risks. This is something that will be almost impossible to police. I know when I was on the bike, I assumed that everything with more than 2 wheels was out to get me and as a result, I drove defensively. By this I mean that I would assess an upcoming situation and if I perceived any risk I would hold off. If this sounds boring, well I have a wife and 3 kids and I sorta want to see the kids grow to adulthood and not become another statistic.

Sorry for going on a bit but this is a subject I feel strongly about. Motorbiking should be enjoyable but it's the most dangerous form of road travel and in any form of collision, a bike never wins.

dunsandin

Ill give you my experience- heading into town on a cold morning, hit black ice and went down like a sack of sh1t, slid 50 ft along the tarmac, shredding my a$$ and back, was so hurt I could not move, and was waiting for a car or truck to come around the blind bend to plough me out of it as I lay helpless in the middle of the road. None came. Eventually managed to roll into the verge. Sold scratched up bike next day. Don't want another. No cars involved, just Ice and gravity. Loved the freedom and style, hated the reality.

rev2.0

cronin_j wrote: »

There are two types of bikers

1. Those that have come off.
2. Those that will come off.

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

What a stupid comment to make! So every biker is gonna come off?? :rolleyes:

Whats wrong with filtering in stationary traffic?

P.C.

Today, on my way home from work, I was on the M50.

Was in the overtaking (outside) lane, stuck behind a van which was going below the legal speed limit - there was no traffic in the middle lane.
I pulled right over to the right hand side of the lane, and made sure he saw me - flashed my lights and all - still the van would not move over.

Does this mean that all van drivers are muppets - NO, but this particular one was.

Some people are muppets on bikes - most are not.

Tefral

rev2.0 wrote: »

What a stupid comment to make! So every biker is gonna come off?? :rolleyes:

Whats wrong with filtering in stationary traffic?

I hope you never dont, but the odds arent with you my friend...

Who said anything about the traffic being stationary?

smellslikeshoes

For every one of these stories that come from car drivers I could give 20 that I have experienced from my point of view as a biker. I've been pulled out on so many times as a biker it would make your hair turn grey. Car's regularly pull right out on me when I'm right in front of them, the only way to survive as a biker with how many cars pull out on you is to assume you're invisible and assume they are out to kill you.

Had an interesting experience just today when i had just stopped in traffic and a car that was parked on the left hand side parallel to me pulled right out on me like I wasn't there.

dunsandin

Can't agree that most bikers are safe. They are just lucky, for now. Safe or not, if a fool in a car, or even a piece of stone is in the wrong place, you are going down. I realise bikers love their rides, but, man, its a hiding to nothing.

dunsandin

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

For every one of these stories that come from car drivers I could give 20 that I have experienced from my point of view as a biker. I've been pulled out on so many times as a biker it would make your hair turn grey. Car's regularly pull right out on me when I'm right in front of them, the only way to survive as a biker with how many cars pull out on you is to assume you're invisible and assume they are out to kill you.

Had an interesting experience just today when i had just stopped in traffic and a car that was parked on the left hand side parallel to me pulled right out on me like I wasn't there.

You are right!!!! So why go there??????

P.C.

cronin_j wrote: »

There are two types of bikers

1. Those that have come off.
2. Those that will come off.

I take serious issue with the eegits that weave in and out of lanes of traffic just so they can get to the front of a queue..

Most bikers are grand, but i seem to meet the worst of them driving to work everymorning, once every 2 months i see one ramming into the back of a car by the little roundabout by the esso in sandymount.

If I was to say - there are two types of car drivers
1.) Those that have written off a car.
2.) Those that will write off a car.

Would you be OK with that?

TJJP

kceire wrote: »

just like car drivers, there are some bad apples in the biking community. not all are like that but its our job as a car driver to try to be that bit more aware of their presence and drive defencably around them.

Eh - no it isn't. Each to their own car or bike. How can any of us pre-read the actions of a RD350 at full tilt? Three C's care, courtesy and consideration. None of that was evident in the OP's recitation of their experience.

FruitLover wrote: »

Correct, all bikers are dangerous and irresponsible, and every single one will eventually be killed in an accident of their own doing. What a valid point and well-thought-out post.

Now where did I put my rolleyes....

Fruitcake or fruitlover. Be real man, bikers take crazy risks, which is their prerogative if that’s their wish but OP was freaked out by the behaviour on the road. It isn’t all but there are a few......

kceire wrote: »

thats all fair enough and very sad, my feelings go out to you on that one, but you cant tar all bikers with the same brush! as above, if it wasnt for stupic car drivers making stupid decisions alot of bikers would still be here today.

I'm afraid you can, certainly these days. Try the N4 for a 'laugh'.... I’ve never seen anything like it from South Circular to Maynooth. Lunatics. Maybe that’s where OP is coming from?

kceire wrote: »

your obviously on a rant mission, so maybe go for a 10 minute walk and get some fresh air to clear the head.

Eh - no it seems not. That comment was unfair and unwarranted - retraction anyone?

dunsandin

P.C. wrote: »

If I was to say - there are two types of car drivers
1.) Those that have written off a car.
2.) Those that will write off a car.

Would you be OK with that?

But most walk away. Thats the difference. Dented tin is easily fixed.

Tefral

P.C. wrote: »

If I was to say - there are two types of car drivers
1.) Those that have written off a car.
2.) Those that will write off a car.

Would you be OK with that?

Not the same...

Not all crashes with cars end up writing off the car, even if the car was travelling at 50km/hr. Id love to see what a biker would look like if he hit a kerb or something travelling at 50km/hr.

I cant see this thread going anywhere fast to be honest..

Squegee

Sure Valentino broke his leg last weekend, what a shit biker!!!
Accidents will always happen, no disrespect OP but you can't tar all bikers with the same brush

P.C.

dunsandin wrote: »

Can't agree that most bikers are safe. They are just lucky, for now. Safe or not, if a fool in a car, or even a piece of stone is in the wrong place, you are going down. I realise bikers love their rides, but, man, its a hiding to nothing.

You need to leave the rant.
I am sorry that you came off your bike, but there is no need to go on a rant, and tell me that I am 'going down'.

My bike is NOT a hiding to nothing.

rev2.0

dunsandin wrote: »

But most walk away. Thats the difference. Dented tin is easily fixed.

Yet you fall off a bike and you'll never walk away??

TJJP

rev2.0 wrote: »

What a stupid comment to make! So every biker is gonna come off?? :rolleyes:

Whats wrong with filtering in stationary traffic?

Define your version of 'stationary traffic'? I think I see where you’re coming from but I don't think your idea is shared definition.

smellslikeshoes

dunsandin wrote: »

You are right!!!! So why go there??????

It's not something you can explain to someone. You either love bikes or you don't.

SV

rev2.0 wrote: »

Yet you fall off a bike and you'll never walk away??

No but in fairness you're more likely to do serious damage to yourself.

dunsandin

P.C. wrote: »

You need to leave the rant.
I am sorry that you came off your bike, but there is no need to go on a rant, and tell me that I am 'going down'.

My bike is NOT a hiding to nothing.

Yeah it is. Sorry, but chances are, it is. Its transport, the image is a marlboro man thing, but at the end of the day, its transport. I smoke, you ride a bike, same difference. I crashed 10 years ago, so theres no rant left.

Gumbo

TJJP wrote: »

Eh - no it seems not. That comment was unfair and unwarranted - retraction anyone?

dunsandin wrote: »

Yeah it is. Sorry, but chances are, it is. Its transport, the image is a marlboro man thing, but at the end of the day, its transport. I smoke, you ride a bike, same difference. I crashed 10 years ago, so theres no rant left.

seems like the OP has admitted to a little rant, care to retract your statement???????????

anyway , thats way OT.

SV

oh and may I add..
just to stir it up here..



Bikes are infintely better than cars in every single way except shelter

P.C.

dunsandin wrote: »

Yeah it is. Sorry, but chances are, it is. Its transport, the image is a marlboro man thing, but at the end of the day, its transport. I smoke, you ride a bike, same difference.

Oh dear.

Now, you know exactly how well I can ride a bike. :eek:

To me, my car is transport an enjoyable and comfortable way to get around.
The bus is transport.

My bike is a lot more than transport.

What has your smoking got to do with my bike?

c-note

Theres plenty of good/responsible/sensible bikers around,
but in a crash they're pretty fecked either way,

someone once said to me:

Theres bold bikers, theres old bikers, but theres no old bold bikers, go figure.

dunsandin

kceire wrote: »

seems like the OP has admitted to a little rant, care to retract your statement???????????

anyway , thats way OT.

No way what so ever. I am not ranting, I am as cool as a cucumber, I just reckon, if you ride a bike, read a paper. They are cool as hell, but in the wrong hands, they are deadly, and there seems to be a lot of "wrong hands".:)

TJJP

kceire wrote: »

seems like the OP has admitted to a little rant, care to retract your statement???????????

anyway , thats way OT.

OK I'm lost. I see no such statement. Maybe your visor is in the way.

You're otherwise all good with me, but I thought your 'go for a walk' was a bit low.

Gumbo

dunsandin wrote: »

No way what so ever. I am not ranting, I am as cool as a cucumber, I just reckon, if you ride a bike, read a paper. They are cool as hell, but in the wrong hands, they are deadly, and there seems to be a lot of "wrong hands".:)

now you are talking with a clear and level head, all the other posts come accross as rants.

TJJP wrote: »

OK I'm lost. I see no such statement. Maybe your visor is in the way.

You're otherwise all good with me, but I thought your 'go for a walk' was a bit low.

its a tongue in cheek comment, dear god people need to stop ranting and moaning, theres alot to life than trying to nit pick other road users off the road. if somebody wants to drive a bike let them, heck, why dont we only allow bikes on the road then no bikers would die, does that suit you? maybe not?




ps, i drive an Audi S3 not a bike.................

TJJP

ooh Quick edit. we're all friends here too afterall it seems. Nothing to see here....

dunsandin

I went to eastern europe to see a pal, and he collected me from the airport on a BMW 1000, and I sat on the pillion for a week, and marvelled at how he was still alive. Mostly, the car drivers around us were in the wrong, but he was the one gonna be in the hospital.

Run_to_da_hills

CaraFawn wrote: »

What do you mean?

Contact this forum, just ask them what a cage is.

dunsandin

In the original incident, Im up 6' in a dirty great Iveco. The biker is on a 250cc hairdryer. I might sweat and fret, but he's going down, I'm explaining to the Gardai what happened, worse case. How is that a rant. Thats just pointing out facts. Maybe I just would like it if a certain minority of bikers copped on. Some are great, some are cracked.

P.C.

kceire wrote: »

ps, i drive an Audi S3 not a bike.................

You so need to get a bike.

Now - what bike would I recomend for an Audi driver...

agrostar

Hey there dont mean to offend or annoy anyone but i can see both sides of this tread. I am a biker on fine days and car driver everyother day which happen to be 99% of the days that come as are the majority of bikers. For the 1% of days i take da bike out its like i loose all commonsense, look I no im a clown but its what i do. Everytime i look back on my actions i have regrets and no there probably was some close shaves but it still doesnt slow me. I pass when it looks safe to do so eventhough the speed may be above recommended limits its only when you get over confident or encounter the unexpected in front of you(which what happens the vast majority of motorcycle fatalities), your in the s**e. I saw there in one tread where someone said there are those who have come off and those that will come off and i agree with this statement only theres abit missing, there are also those who will come off again....... Trust me i know i hit the side of a car at well above limit speed when the driver failed to see me and pulled out in front of me. hit it flat out never even got to touch the brakes........ Made bits of myself two broken legs, shattered kneecap and serious head lasserations as the helmet shattered with the impact over 150 stitches to the face..... This said it wasnt the bikes fault only the bollox on it, people need to be educated as to the danger of the roads whether they be travelling by bike or car and the consequences of the aftermate of these accidents.

smellslikeshoes

dunsandin wrote: »

No way what so ever. I am not ranting, I am as cool as a cucumber, I just reckon, if you ride a bike, read a paper. They are cool as hell, but in the wrong hands, they are deadly, and there seems to be a lot of "wrong hands".:)

When you consider the fact that there are much less bikes on the road than cars there are a lot more cars in bad hands than bikes.

I'm really not understanding the point of this thread anymore, bikers know the dangers. We are reminded of them every day when we have a car pull out on us or we hear about a fallen biker. We don't need threads telling us this.

All bikers want from car drivers is them to take an extra look for bikers, simple as that and nothing else.

TJJP

dunsandin wrote: »

In the original incident, Im up 6' in a dirty great Iveco. The biker is on a 250cc hairdryer. I might sweat and fret, but he's going down, I'm explaining to the Gardai what happened, worse case. How is that a rant. Thats just pointing out facts. Maybe I just would like it if a certain minority of bikers copped on. Some are great, some are cracked.

And some, rather close to home, are dead.

dunsandin

kceire wrote: »

now you are talking with a clear and level head, all the other posts come accross as rants.



its a tongue in cheek comment, dear god people need to stop ranting and moaning, theres alot to life than trying to nit pick other road users off the road. if somebody wants to drive a bike let them, heck, why dont we only allow bikes on the road then no bikers would die, does that suit you? maybe not?




ps, i drive an Audi S3 not a bike.................

Not bleedin ranting:D:D