Enniscorthy

Cantona's Collars

Del.Monte wrote: »

Where will the boy racers go if their playground is denied them?

The N30 section of the bypass is very popular with them now and the car park at the front of Centra on the Milehouse.

McLoughlin

Let's be honest the amount of car usage 30 years ago was allot less and traffic was more manageable now pedestrianised towns are a common feature and they work. Enniscorthy problem is some people are stuck in an old fashion of how retail works and tourism works and unfortunately some of those people are in positions that make decisions in the town.

paulaa

McLoughlin wrote: »

Let's be honest the amount of car usage 30 years ago was allot less and traffic was more manageable now pedestrianised towns are a common feature and they work. Enniscorthy problem is some people are stuck in an old fashion of how retail works and tourism works and unfortunately some of those people are in positions that make decisions in the town.

While I agree with most of your post I think that for a small town like Enniscorthy and with the layout of the town it has been a disaster. Besides driving shoppers away, the modern square does not fit in with ethos of a historic market town. They could have modernised that area with a bit of thought for the buildings surrounding it. It was nothing more than a vanity project for the TDs and council of the time.

PhilOssophy

So at 1 meeting they can pedestrianise half the town, but for a few years they have ignored the number 1 issue with going out in Enniscorthy - the fact that there is no proper taxi service in the town to get people out of the town quicker, which leads to all the problems associated with hundreds of people loitering around Treacy's at 3am.

PhilOssophy

paulaa wrote: »

While I agree with most of your post I think that for a small town like Enniscorthy and with the layout of the town it has been a disaster. Besides driving shoppers away, the modern square does not fit in with ethos of a historic market town. They could have modernised that area with a bit of thought for the buildings surrounding it. It was nothing more than a vanity project for the TDs and council of the time.

Agree fully. Like somebody said, if the Market Square had been thought out properly then the farmers market could be held there on a Saturday morning, rather than in the middle of nowhere. This would bring people in to the centre of the town and hopefully a few spin offs would develop.

The Market Square is a disaster, Rafter Street is about as ugly a pedestrianisation attempt as there is, the town needs to be both attractive and accessible, neither of which the town is.

We talk about history, where and what do I go to find out? Is there a guided leaflet for the town to say "Go to this, that and the other"?

Uncle Pierre

Here's one for you. I've an aunt, now aged in her 80s, who grew up in the home place just a few miles from Enniscorthy but who emigrated to the UK in late 50s/early 60s and who has lived in South Wales for just about all the years since then.

She was always a regular visitor home, but she and her husband were always great ones too for other travel - package holidays to the sun, trips to the States, Egypt to see the pyramids, Kenya for a safari holiday, etc.

For the last ten years or more, because of their age, they've been confined to the sort of coach holiday that it's mainly older people do - Cornwall, Lake District, places like that.

I remember her saying a few years ago that the brochures they get often have Enniscorthy included as a stop on any Irish trip they do (presumably because of proximity to Rosslare), and that they and other tourist information stuff they get always go a good job of making the town seem very attractive.

Last year, they actually booked themselves onto one of these trips, as a means of combining a visit home with a trip around some of the rest of the country. It involved either two or three nights in the Riverside, but they'd literally just eat and sleep there - they'd visit my parents or other relations for the day instead of going to do the group trips/activities with the rest of the coach tour crowd.

I remember her saying that the talk with those other people over breakfast/dinner then was generally along the lines of how the hotel was nice, but they were disappointed with the rest of the town, particularly after it had been made sound so nice in the brochures.

I know it's just a snapshot of probably around 40 elderly Welsh people, but seems somewhat relevant all the same.

kneemos

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Here's one for you. I've an aunt, now aged in her 80s, who grew up in the home place just a few miles from Enniscorthy but who emigrated to the UK in late 50s/early 60s and who has lived in South Wales for just about all the years since then.

She was always a regular visitor home, but she and her husband were always great ones too for other travel - package holidays to the sun, trips to the States, Egypt to see the pyramids, Kenya for a safari holiday, etc.

For the last ten years or more, because of their age, they've been confined to the sort of coach holiday that it's mainly older people do - Cornwall, Lake District, places like that.

I remember her saying a few years ago that the brochures they get often have Enniscorthy included as a stop on any Irish trip they do (presumably because of proximity to Rosslare), and that they and other tourist information stuff they get always go a good job of making the town seem very attractive.

Last year, they actually booked themselves onto one of these trips, as a means of combining a visit home with a trip around some of the rest of the country. It involved either two or three nights in the Riverside, but they'd literally just eat and sleep there - they'd visit my parents or other relations for the day instead of going to do the group trips/activities with the rest of the coach tour crowd.

I remember her saying that the talk with those other people over breakfast/dinner then was generally along the lines of how the hotel was nice, but they were disappointed with the rest of the town, particularly after it had been made sound so nice in the brochures.

I know it's just a snapshot of probably around 40 elderly Welsh people, but seems somewhat relevant all the same.

Well what is there. They gutted the Castle,the one notable attraction we had for such tourists. Go for a walk down the Prom?

the kelt

At the end of the day lads you have to look at the actual situation.

I can be in Wexford town in around 20 mins or Enniscorthy in 12 to 15 mins.

How many people choose to go to Wexford over Enniscorthy because Rafter Street is pedestranised? because i certainly dont considering Wexford is the same anyway.

So why? Personally speaking easier to get around Wexford in regards to parking and more shops likely to have what i want.

Likewise if your a tourist coming to town lets be honest what greets you?

Say your down from Dublin and arriving by bus or train and staying in the riverside, is the vew that greets you as you try to walk up the shannon from the bookies to Keoghs!! going to be one that entices you to come back?

Ye might get past Keoghs unscathed and then be subject to boy racer drag race down along the prom!!

EverythingGood

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Agree fully. Like somebody said, if the Market Square had been thought out properly then the farmers market could be held there on a Saturday morning, rather than in the middle of nowhere. This would bring people in to the centre of the town and hopefully a few spin offs would develop.

The Market Square is a disaster, Rafter Street is about as ugly a pedestrianisation attempt as there is, the town needs to be both attractive and accessible, neither of which the town is.

We talk about history, where and what do I go to find out? Is there a guided leaflet for the town to say "Go to this, that and the other"?

the Abbey Sq is hardly the middle of nowhere, its a 3 minute walk down Castle Hill

Uncle Pierre

EverythingGood wrote: »

the Abbey Sq is hardly the middle of nowhere, its a 3 minute walk down Castle Hill

There's the thing. Seems nobody is prepared to walk even a few minutes around Enniscorthy. If they were, there wouldn't the ongoing thing about the demise of Rafter Street "because" it was pedestrianised and you can't park outside the shops there any more.

So, it could be the case that if the Farmers Market was actually in Market Square, nobody would go because there wouldn't be enough parking there and so they'd have to walk a few minutes from somewhere else.

And where would the traders themselves be able to park vans or other vehicles/trailers that they keep stock in and/or operate from?

Del.Monte

EverythingGood wrote: »

the Abbey Sq is hardly the middle of nowhere, its a 3 minute walk down Castle Hill

While it's not the middle of nowhere the Market Square would be a much better location and the market would bring increased footfall to the other shops in the centre of town - probably too late now.

Uncle Pierre

You must have been posting at the same time as me. Will give you another few minutes to answer the question about where would people park if the market was held there instead, considering how it seems people are so reluctant to have to walk anywhere in Enniscorthy...

BuboBubo

It will be interesting to see what returns post-covid in small towns. Enniscorthy being one of many. I've not visited since the lockdown I'll admit.

Tourists - what do they want? Can wherever they are after be provided?

Consumers - is there anything to attract them back? Like many towns, a proliferation of charity shops, "pound" shops, and umpteen pharmacies isn't going to cut the mustard. Claustrophobic housey-goods shops, I'll pass.

Services - plenty of phone shops, but all that stuff can be done online or by telephone.

Attractions - what are they? Whereabouts are they? are they really worth steering off the M11 for?

Economy - if a product can be bought for cheaper elsewhere, people will tap the plastic there. I'm hopeful that post-covid, there will be an awakening where the council's and retailers will finally wake up and smell the coffee.

Edit to add, I don't mind walking a decent distance, have we become so lazy?

PhilOssophy

Del.Monte wrote: »

While it's not the middle of nowhere the Market Square would be a much better location and the market would bring increased footfall to the other shops in the centre of town - probably too late now.

Exactly, my mother is in her 80s and visits the farmers market every Saturday, largely as a social thing, goes to a Coffee Shop for a coffee, and goes home. The benefit to the town is what the farmers make and a cup of coffee.

If it was located in the middle of the town, she might hit 4-5 different shops for a look, get a coffee up the town, etc, etc. Even if she spends only a few bob, it is getting people in to the town and improving the footfall. I don't see how this could be a bad thing. The town spin off would be far more from it than where it currently is.

Lets be real, she is in her 80s and yes walking up Castle Hill would be a big deal for her. Given the demograph at the farmers market, I suspect she would not be alone in that either.

There are no easy answers to the town's problems and all small towns are the same with the advent of online shopping in particular. But #1 priority has to be getting more footfall in the town. Easier said than done I know but Gorey has it to a tee and the town is thriving.

PhilOssophy

BuboBubo wrote: »

I'm hopeful that post-covid, there will be an awakening where the council's and retailers will finally wake up and smell the coffee.

Good points in general but I'd hold very little hope for this point!

Cantona's Collars

Even over the last few weeks the town turned into the usual car park,very few people around and 99% of retail closed yet every parking space in the middle of the town was taken up.
Regards to walking, I've witnessed people park in Abbey Square and actually get back into the car and drive to park outside the AIB.

EverythingGood

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Exactly, my mother is in her 80s and visits the farmers market every Saturday, largely as a social thing, goes to a Coffee Shop for a coffee, and goes home. The benefit to the town is what the farmers make and a cup of coffee.

If it was located in the middle of the town, she might hit 4-5 different shops for a look, get a coffee up the town, etc, etc. Even if she spends only a few bob, it is getting people in to the town and improving the footfall. I don't see how this could be a bad thing. The town spin off would be far more from it than where it currently is.

Lets be real, she is in her 80s and yes walking up Castle Hill would be a big deal for her. Given the demograph at the farmers market, I suspect she would not be alone in that either.

There are no easy answers to the town's problems and all small towns are the same with the advent of online shopping in particular. But #1 priority has to be getting more footfall in the town. Easier said than done I know but Gorey has it to a tee and the town is thriving.

Gorey has the Dublin holiday crowd, the Dublin commuters and the Dublin "full time" living in Gorey crowd, plus geographically, like Wexford town. is a much better having one long main street than our messed up market triangle and myriad of hills and one way streets

Del.Monte

EverythingGood wrote: »

Gorey has the Dublin holiday crowd, the Dublin commuters and the Dublin "full time" living in Gorey crowd, plus geographically, like Wexford town. is a much better having one long main street than our messed up market triangle and myriad of hills and one way streets

Agreed, but we can't do much about the physical geography of the town (the feckin hills) but something urgently needs to be done when you see long time owner occupier businesses also throwing in the towel along with those foolish enough to try opening a business in a rented premises.

Uncle Pierre

EverythingGood wrote: »

is a much better having one long main street than our messed up market triangle and myriad of hills and one way streets

Funny that, because I've heard people say the one thing they don't like about Wexford town in particular is that the main street is so long. It's a long way from Dunnes Stores to Penneys and back again, for example, if you want to compare what each of them have before you decide what to buy. They reckon it would be better to have a more central point with shops on the various streets radiating from it, like Market Square in Enniscorthy and the streets around it.

Both Gorey and Wexford are full of one-way streets too, so I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of that, unless of course it really is a peculiarity of Enniscorthy above everywhere else that people expect to be able to easily drive right to the door of very shop they want to visit.

The hills are a problem all right, particularly for people of limited mobility, or parents with buggies. But nothing can be done about that.

kneemos

The hills give the place a bit of character in fairness over a lot of rural Irish towns that tend to be much of a muchness.

Whatever about the shop units most of them have two or three stories overhead mostly empty. Forever amazed how they can let them sit empty forever and not at least make the most of asset.

PhilOssophy

Yeah, I think Enniscorthy has potential as a town, I hate driving around Wexford and its pokey streets. As Dem Monte says, there isn't much we can do about the hills and layout, what we can do a lot about is how the space is used, trafficked/not, and whether or not the conditions are there to attract businesses and entrepreneurs into the town.
We often forget that Sam McCauley started out in little Enniscorthy and look what he did from small modest beginnings.
Tough one in general and what we all want is a town to be proud of and enjoy a visit to. I still say the pedestrianisation of Rafter Street was a dreadful job by whoever planned it - the street is an unattractive ugly mess after it all and it has disimproved the street overall.

Cantona's Collars

Enniscorthy should have the advantage of actually having a town centre but years of bad planning and introverted,self preservation mindsets of those who basically ran the retail sector in the place have done untold damage.
The town actually has great character compared to the long main streets in Gorey and Wexford.
It is odd that in Wexford you see Enniscorthy people who are happy enough to stroll down the main Street yet back home they'd nearly drive into a shop sooner than walk.

EverythingGood

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Yeah, I think Enniscorthy has potential as a town, I hate driving around Wexford and its pokey streets. As Dem Monte says, there isn't much we can do about the hills and layout, what we can do a lot about is how the space is used, trafficked/not, and whether or not the conditions are there to attract businesses and entrepreneurs into the town.
We often forget that Sam McCauley started out in little Enniscorthy and look what he did from small modest beginnings.
Tough one in general and what we all want is a town to be proud of and enjoy a visit to. I still say the pedestrianisation of Rafter Street was a dreadful job by whoever planned it - the street is an unattractive ugly mess after it all and it has disimproved the street overall.

Is Rafter St pedestrianised though? I counted 8 cars driving on it this morning...

the kelt

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Funny that, because I've heard people say the one thing they don't like about Wexford town in particular is that the main street is so long. It's a long way from Dunnes Stores to Penneys and back again, for example, if you want to compare what each of them have before you decide what to buy. They reckon it would be better to have a more central point with shops on the various streets radiating from it, like Market Square in Enniscorthy and the streets around it.

Both Gorey and Wexford are full of one-way streets too, so I'm afraid I don't see the relevance of that, unless of course it really is a peculiarity of Enniscorthy above everywhere else that people expect to be able to easily drive right to the door of very shop they want to visit.

The hills are a problem all right, particularly for people of limited mobility, or parents with buggies. But nothing can be done about that.

Its simple though.

Shops and parking.

Old Dunnes car park is the main car park for the town but isnt big enough, on street parking is a lottery, super valu in the duffry is something akin to a death trap for parking, a complete mess.

Otherwise its "down the hill" really for parking having to go up and down Castle Hill to get to shops.

When it comes to Wexford town for myself and the family its a case of parking for what shops the family is going to and failing that its parking in the middle, super valu car park, rowe street church or the car park on the quay beside Shaws.

Plenty of parking at the south side of wexford town, old tesco car park, public car park behind what was asples pub, multi storey car park at Tk Max. Similar on the other end, Dunnes stores car parks, whites Hotel, Cinema Car Park.

PhilOssophy

The one thing I wouldn't complain about in Enniscorthy is difficulty parking - sadly in a perverse sort of way because it would at least be a sign that the town is busy!

Uncle Pierre

Lots of car parks in Enniscorthy if people were prepared to walk a few minutes. Off the top of my head, all of these should be within a five-minute walk from the town centre (Market Square) for most people:
- old Dunnes Stores
- new Dunnes Stores
- Island Road
- Abbey Square/The Quay heading for the hotel
- Car park opposite Pettit's SuperValu (is it called the Fairgreen?)

Always puzzles me how people will drive to somewhere like Dundrum for a shopping trip, and maybe have to walk 15 minutes or more to some of the shops there because the place is so vast. Yet they won't walk five minutes somewhere else.

EverythingGood

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Lots of car parks in Enniscorthy if people were prepared to walk a few minutes. Off the top of my head, all of these should be within a five-minute walk from the town centre (Market Square) for most people:
- old Dunnes Stores
- new Dunnes Stores
- Island Road
- Abbey Square/The Quay heading for the hotel
- Car park opposite Pettit's SuperValu (is it called the Fairgreen?)

Always puzzles me how people will drive to somewhere like Dundrum for a shopping trip, and maybe have to walk 15 minutes or more to some of the shops there because the place is so vast. Yet they won't walk five minutes somewhere else.

One at bottom of Ross Rd too, 3-4 min walk back to town. Its never used unless the rugby crowd have a big match

Uncle Pierre

I'd actually consider the Ross Road one a little too far out, and would hazard that it's a good bit more than a three or four minute walk. Don't know for sure, because I never walked it myself. It's too far out.

Same with the one at the graveyard. Plenty of spots always available there if there's no funeral taking place, but again, just a bit too far from the town centre to make it into the "why won't people walk from there?" category.

PhilOssophy

I am the first to admit that I don't spend long around the town but I know one thing, the general shopping age-group I see around the town would not walk from Ross Road to Rafter Street in 3-4 minutes.....
Also its not always laziness with people, very often it is time poor people who might have 15-20 minutes in town before rushing off somewhere else to pick up children/etc. I know this as I often have this length to hit 3/4 places on my few trips into the town!

kneemos

Enniscorthy has a litter problem apparently.

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/06/16/enniscorthy-has-a-litter-problem/

They removed a lot of the bins because people were dumping household rubbish in and around them. You won't find one near residential streets.