Israel Kills 10 aid workers

Yitzhak Rabin

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK So back sorta OT

What do people think will happen to the MV Rachel Corrie when it reaches the blockade? From what I have read it seems that the bulk of its cargo is Cement and other building materials which have been banned by Israel.

also why is the ship sailing under a Cambodian flag, surely it would have better off if it had an Irish registration.

I would say that it will probably be sabotaged with its propeller being taken out, it will then be towed to Ashdod.

As for the Cambodian thing, I haven't a notion.

cichlid child

What is the ETA at the blockade.

Mahatma coat

I was wonderin, since Egypt opened its border crossing can they not just sail into Gaza via Egyptian Waters, thereby bypassin 'Israeli' Waters??

Chimichangas

bonkey wrote: »

I see you're new here. Welcome to boards.ie and the CT forum.

May I suggest you take the time to read (or re-read) the charter, and pay close attention to the part which tells you what to do if you have in issue with moderation.

Will do. Should have done. I apologise in advance.:o

Chimichangas

Brown bomber,
Maybe I didnt represent my self correctly.

I appreciate the facts you quote, where can i find stuff like that?

The israeli ambassador-i was just affording respect to the official representative of a nation, any nation. I was quoting his words and facts. i think i got my tone wrong.
If I said anything that sounded contradictory, it was meant to.
Commandos who attack are forced to defend?
Bullets Vs Stones=fair and balanced approach?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Chimichangas wrote: »

It is similar to other wanton killing in history yes. Again I apologise but I am confused once more by your statement. Initially you begin by appearing to be critical of the massacre and the IDF for murdering children in Palestine but then go on to describe it in "harsh but fair" terms, like putting down a dog. I mean what could you possibly imagine a "bullet to the head" from a trained solider to a child throwing "stones and pebbles" could ever possibly achieve,? what is it "effective" at`?

its effective in creating hatred and killing and maiming children. over the top? of course it is! Do I agree with such actions? No! does it happen? yes!

?Anybody know whats the breakdown of palestinian children killed by israeli forces Vs israeli children killed by Palestinian forces?
Please include the unborn children too if you chose to reply.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Chimichangas wrote: »

In terms of suffering, Ireland has a comparable history with anyone, yet I don't feel to need to kill civilians in international waters.



And I respect it, honestly I do. But I genuinely feel if you are worried about offending anyone you should be concerned about all peoples, not just a single group.

With respect, I disagree with you on this last part introducing irelands history in, and who i apologise to.
I dont think Irish history is comparable to the recent history of the jews, armenians, people of former yugoslavia, rwanda and many other recent conflicts where people are being killed for religious or ethic backgrounds on a vastly bigger scale.
Similarities? of course, but I just wouldnt like to say they were comparable.
Anyway I think I was more giving my reasons on why the IDF behaves as it does; they lost enough in WWII, they aint going to let any more die, without making it very costly for the other side. Maybe its some of that neocon view on the economics of war??

Also I apologised to the group of people who I was talking about, not to all groups who werent mentioned.

and i apologise to you for not getting my tone right in my original post.

squod

U.S.-TURKEY RELATIONS
U.S.-Turkish friendship dates to the late 18th century and was officially sealed by a treaty in 1830. The present close relationship began with the agreement of July 12, 1947, which implemented the Truman Doctrine. As part of the cooperative effort to further Turkish economic and military self-reliance, the United States has loaned and granted Turkey more than $12.5 billion in economic aid and more than $14 billion in military assistance.

U.S.-Turkish relations focus on areas such as strategic energy cooperation, trade and investment, security ties, regional stability, counterterrorism, and human rights progress. Relations were strained when Turkey refused in March 2003 to allow U.S. troops to deploy through its territory to Iraq in Operation Iraqi Freedom, but regained momentum steadily thereafter and mutual interests remain strong across a wide spectrum of issues.

Oh look, betcha the same people are funding both sides of this conflict Isreal/Turkey. History repeating?

TalkieWalkie

Can't find this on mainstream yet...
Turkish Sources – Israeli Advance Target Assassination List Found on Flotilla

'Turkish sources and media revealed a document which shows that a death list had been prepared in advance by the Israelis, showing names and pictures of people on board of the ships to be murdered, who, according to Israel, were “involved in the International humanitarian aid for Gaza”. According to the Turkish sources, hundreds of Israeli soldiers stormed the blue Turkish ship “Marmara” flotilla and they had copies of the death list. The list included the names of civilians on the fleet who should be killed”. The document was apparently recovered after one of the Israeli soldiers lost it during the piracy act.'

http://www.prisonplanet.com/turkish-sources-israeli-advance-target-assassination-list-found-on-flotilla.html

TalkieWalkie

Israel expects split with Turkey

ISRAEL has evacuated the families of its diplomats in Turkey in anticipation of a severing of diplomatic relations by Ankara.

With anti-Israel sentiment sweeping Turkey, Israeli officials said concern for the security of the families prompted their speedy evacuation yesterday. The diplomatic pullout follows the storming of a Turkish vessel, the Mavi Marmara, off the Gaza coast by Israeli naval commandos and the killing of nine activists, at least four of them Turks.

Israeli diplomats remain in Turkey but the embassy in Ankara and the consulate in Istanbul have been closed.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has taken an increasingly antagonistic line towards Israel as he moves his country closer to ties with Arab countries and Iran, called the killings aboard the ship a "bloody massacre" and said "Israel has shown once again how good it is at killing people".

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In what is regarded in Jerusalem as a possibly menacing tone, he said: "No one should test Turkey's patience. Turkey's hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable."

There is some concern in Israel that Mr Erdogan might order Turkish warships to accompany future convoys bringing aid to the Gaza Strip.

Israel and Turkey have enjoyed close relations for years, jointly conducting military exercises and engaging in billions of dollars of trade. Politically, the relationship has been important to Israel because Turkey is a Muslim country. It was considered important by Turkey because Israel was seen as a channel to the West.

Israel is bracing for the arrival of two more vessels in the coming days seeking to break its naval blockade of Gaza.

The chairman of the Knesset foreign affairs and defence committee, Tzahi Hanegbi, said yesterday the vessels would be invited to enter Ashdod Port in southern Israel so their cargoes could be examined to ensure they contained no materials that could be used by Hamas for military purposes. The cargoes would then be transported by truck to the Gaza Strip.

"We must not deviate an iota from our (blockade) policy," he said. Asked about the possibility of Turkish military escorts for future convoys, he said: "I don't think this . . . is being planned."

A senior Israeli naval officer said the vessels would be seized if they did not agree to dock in Ashdod.

One of the two vessels is the Irish-owned Rachel Corrie, named after a peace activist killed in Gaza in a confrontation with Israeli forces. Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen said if any harm came to Irish citizens on the

vessel as a result of Israeli action, it would have "the most serious consequences".

Washington announced yesterday its support for a transparent investigation of the entire affair.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/israel-expects-split-with-turkey/story-e6frg6so-1225874715502

ultain

TalkieWalkie wrote: »

Can't find this on mainstream yet...
Turkish Sources – Israeli Advance Target Assassination List Found on Flotilla


http://www.prisonplanet.com/turkish-sources-israeli-advance-target-assassination-list-found-on-flotilla.html

Deathlist?ldroped on board, that's a wee bit far fetched is it not..movie coming soon

Di0genes

ultain wrote: »

Deathlist?ldroped on board, that's a wee bit far fetched is it not..movie coming soon

The source is prison planet. So yes it is suspect.

Would elite assassins need cheat sheets?

ultain

Would elite assassins need cheat sheets?[/QUOTE]

Brown Bomber

Chimichangas wrote: »

Brown bomber,
Maybe I didnt represent my self correctly.

My mistake I am sure, I was probably over-emotional, I was and am deeply angered and saddened by the massacre. Probably clouding my judgement to be frank.

Chimichangas wrote: »

I appreciate the facts you quote, where can i find stuff like that?

Two were UN reports and the other links were from Human Rights groups. One was definitely Israeli organisation B'Tselem http://www.btselem.org/English/ and I can't remember but I think the other was either Human Rights Watch http://www.hrw.org/ or Amnesty International http://www.amnesty.org/

Here is a selection links to Human Rights groups connected to the middle east
http://www.cdp-hrc.uottawa.ca/eng/doc/inter-web/hrvint_e.php#middle_east

Otherwise I'd reccommend reading Norman Finkelstein http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/ and Naom Chomsky http://www.chomsky.info/. Who incidentally are both Jewish.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The israeli ambassador-i was just affording respect to the official representative of a nation, any nation. I was quoting his words and facts. i think i got my tone wrong.
If I said anything that sounded contradictory, it was meant to.
Commandos who attack are forced to defend?
Bullets Vs Stones=fair and balanced approach?

its effective in creating hatred and killing and maiming children. over the top? of course it is! Do I agree with such actions? No! does it happen? yes!

Apologies for my misunderstanding, I am very easily confused

Chimichangas wrote: »

?Anybody know whats the breakdown of palestinian children killed by israeli forces Vs israeli children killed by Palestinian forces?
Please include the unborn children too if you chose to reply.

At a guess I would say there are no official statistics on pregnant women losing their babies through murder of the mother or any other means .by the IDF or as a direct consequence of the illegal siege imposed by Israel.

This should give you some idea of the mentality of the IDF and unborn non-Jewish children. It was designed and worn by an IDF sniper unit openly. It is an pregnant woman in the crosshairs with the target focused on her pregnant stomach which the tagline "One Shot Two Kills"




Here are the pre-Castlead figures you asked for.

Additional data (included in previous table)

Occupied Territories

Israel

Gaza Strip West Bank Total

Palestinian minors killed by Israeli security forces

635 317 952 3

Israeli minors killed by Palestinians

4 35 39 84Source: http://www.cdp-hrc.uottawa.ca/eng/doc/inter-web/hrvint_e.php#middle_east

Additionaly there were hundreds of Gazan children murdered during Operation Castlead.

This report from DCI goes into some detail on children who were murderd in just 2 weeks during Castlead. Including the 5 sisters, all under 18 who died instantly in their sleep when Israel shelled their shelter.
http://www.defenceforchildren.org/attachments/089_child%20fatalities-written-statement.pdf

On that particular humanitarian site defenceforchildren.org I came across this report, from just last week which should give you further evidence about what the IDF are actually all about.

International Human Rights Group accuses IDF of pedastry and threatening to rape Palestinian minors.

Ramallah, 18 May 2010] – On 18 May 2010, DCI-Palestine submitted 14 cases to the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture for investigation. The submission relates to the sexual assault, or threat of sexual assault, of Palestinian children at the hands of Israeli soldiers, interogators and police between January 2009 and April 2010. The ages of the children range from 13 to 16 years.

DCI-Palestine is becoming increasingly alarmed at reports contained in sworn affidavits received from children that they are being subjected to sexual assault, or threat of sexual assault, in order to obtain confessions.

DCI-Palestine has reviewed 100 sworn affidavits collected from children in 2009, and in four percent of cases, children report being sexually assaulted, whilst in 12 percent of cases, the children report being threatened with sexual assault. The sexual assault and threats of sexual assault documented by DCI-Palestine include grabbing boys by the testicles until they confess and threatening boys as young as 13 years with rape unless they confess to throwing stones at Israeli settler vehicles in the occupied West Bank. DCI-Palestine suspects that these figures may understate the extent of the problem.

http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=1476&CategoryId=1

Chimichangas wrote: »

With respect, I disagree with you on this last part introducing irelands history in, and who i apologise to.
I dont think Irish history is comparable to the recent history of the jews, armenians, people of former yugoslavia, rwanda and many other recent conflicts where people are being killed for religious or ethic backgrounds on a vastly bigger scale.

I can accept that, my point is that every state has a history.

Chimichangas wrote: »

Similarities? of course, but I just wouldnt like to say they were comparable.
Anyway I think I was more giving my reasons on why the IDF behaves as it does; they lost enough in WWII, they aint going to let any more die, without making it very costly for the other side. Maybe its some of that neocon view on the economics of war??

My individual thoughts on this is that indivual Jews lost in WWII but eastern european Zionists prevailed, they got their Jewish homeland but don't honour the reperations to the survivors. From Germany as part of the ongoing reperation payments they have recently received a fleet of submarines worth hundreds of millions of dollars each so they can wage more wars of aggression, think of the good that money could have done for the quality of life of the aging survivors. Norman Finkelstein's, (who I linked to above) mother and father were both survivors of the Nazi concentration camps and he essentially had both sides of his family wiped out in the holocaust.

You see I don't buy that Israel is in a paranoid frenzy about their security.

Case in point the massacre on the Turkish ship and their arrogant "untouchable" attitude after. They are their own worst enemy and they are in danger of the world turning against them for their barbaric actions and constant human rights abuses. As soon as people can realise that it is possible to be pro-israel and anti-human right violations there will be sweeping changes. I mean, if they are so concerned about security why not along with virtually ever state in the world bar the US commit to making the Middle East a nuclear free zone? But no, they keep the nukes for "The Samson Option" whereby they take down the world with them and launch the full range of nuclear weapons (200-400 most estimates) on the rest of the world if they are critically threatened. They have that option to denuclearise the region, they refuse, they are not interested in preservation they are interested in regional domination along religous and ethnic lines. I'm getting old, just realised I forgot what my point was:D:confused

Chimichangas wrote: »

Also I apologised to the group of people who I was talking about, not to all groups who werent mentioned.

Understandable. I make no apologies for murdrers though.

Chimichangas wrote: »

and i apologise to you for not getting my tone right in my original post.

No need, my fault.

dyasny

what a bunch of blockheaded bull**** this entire thread is... just watch the filming of the incident on youtube, you'll see who attacked who.

while you're at it, check out the amount of aid Israel sends into the PA daily, and come visit Gaza, to see how the blockade makes the people there "suffer" - after a belch or two, they'll finish their kebab and tell you how badly they starve.

This entire affair is a provocation against Israel, blatant and totally untrue. And it is really sad to see how people buy into this bull****, just because it's easier to believe this crap and play the "good guy", than find out the truth.

bonkey

dyasny wrote: »

what a bunch of blockheaded bull**** this entire thread is... just watch the filming of the incident on youtube, you'll see who attacked who.

while you're at it, check out the amount of aid Israel sends into the PA daily, and come visit Gaza, to see how the blockade makes the people there "suffer" - after a belch or two, they'll finish their kebab and tell you how badly they starve.

This entire affair is a provocation against Israel, blatant and totally untrue. And it is really sad to see how people buy into this bull****, just because it's easier to believe this crap and play the "good guy", than find out the truth.

Please read the forum charter before posting to this forum again.

robtri

Brown Bomber wrote: »

This should give you some idea of the mentality of the IDF and unborn non-Jewish children. It was designed and worn by an IDF sniper unit openly. It is an pregnant woman in the crosshairs with the target focused on her pregnant stomach which the tagline "One Shot Two Kills"




.

it probably just satire.. like your sig :rolleyes:

dyasny

hey, no problem, here's a conspiracy theory:

the region becomes too quiet, after the winters' operation that quelled down hamas. Oil prices started dropping, so the sheikhs had to do something to raise the tension in the area again.

Israel is the most common and easiest target, because taking a swing at anyone else in the area means gaining an enemy, while Israel is everyone's enemy anyway.

So out sails a "peace" flotilla, with armed and trained terrorists on board, but armed with clubs, knives and slingshots, because in the eyes of the world, those don't compare to handguns. The world never was attacked by a mob armed with those of course.

Anyhow, the provocation works, everyone is shouting, Turkey is threatening war, Iran spits in all directions, tensions rise, oil prices rise, sheikhs get richer.

funny thing is - this is all too true.

bonkey

dyasny wrote: »

So out sails a "peace" flotilla, with armed and trained terrorists on board, but armed with clubs, knives and slingshots, because in the eyes of the world, those don't compare to handguns.

A flotilla who's plan required the Israeli's to take a specific response against them, and to implement said response incompetently...and then resort to deadly violence as a second reaction.

Sounds like an incredibly dumb plan to me....about as dumb as it required the Israeli's to be.

Brown Bomber

dyasny wrote: »

Israel is the most common and easiest target,

Im case you missed it ISREAL WASN'T THE TARGET. The aid workers had no interest in Israel. They were destined for Gaza, The only reason the ended up in Israel is because they were kidnapped on the high seas by pirates.

And easiest target? Thats a laugh. How exactly does a civilian aid convoy target a military.?

dyasny wrote: »

because taking a swing at anyone else in the area means gaining an enemy, while Israel is everyone's enemy anyway. .

How is delivering for example, wheelchairs to people crippled by your the Israeli government taking a swing at anyone?

And Israel is not "everyones enemy" Israel and Turkey were allies ffs.

dyasny wrote: »

So out sails a "peace" flotilla, with armed and trained terrorists on board, but armed with clubs, knives and slingshots, because in the eyes of the world, those don't compare to handguns.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Really? I Wonder why that is???

Hey, maybe your right...Maybe Israel doesn't need the billions in free US aid every year then?
The world never was attacked by a mob armed with those of course.

dyasny wrote: »

Anyhow, the provocation works, everyone is shouting, Turkey is threatening war, Iran spits in all directions, tensions rise, oil prices rise, sheikhs get richer.

funny thing is - this is all too true.

Turkey is threatening war? Israel's actions was an act of war on Turkey.

Brown Bomber

robtri wrote: »

it probably just satire.. like your sig :rolleyes:

Can't believe you are defending racially motivated murder against a mother and unborn child just to get at me. Think about what you are doing.

dyasny

bonkey wrote: »

A flotilla who's plan required the Israeli's to take a specific response against them, and to implement said response incompetently...and then resort to deadly violence as a second reaction.

Sounds like an incredibly dumb plan to me....about as dumb as it required the Israeli's to be.

if you watch the screencasts, you'll see white flags flown while the soldiers were attacked.
the other 5 ships did not resist at all.

Anyhow, if riot control was expected, another unit would have been used

dyasny

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Im case you missed it ISREAL WASN'T THE TARGET.

oh, no? so the flotilla didn't reach its objectives?

The aid workers had no interest in Israel. They were destined for Gaza, The only reason the ended up in Israel is because they were kidnapped on the high seas by pirates.

aid workers armed with clubs and knives? that's not even funny.
the ships were headed for a marine blockade zone, of course they would be stopped, that was the whole point

And easiest target? Thats a laugh. How exactly does a civilian aid convoy target a military.?

by achieving exactly what you see here and everywhere else - a stir in public opinion. especially of those unable to think beyond what the media feeds them

How is delivering for example, wheelchairs to people crippled by your the Israeli government taking a swing at anyone?

read my post again, ok? carefully this time.

And Israel is not "everyones enemy" Israel and Turkey were allies ffs.

until the recent Turk government changes. the islamists rule there now.

Really? I Wonder why that is???

probably because you have no clue

Hey, maybe your right...Maybe Israel doesn't need the billions in free US aid every year then?

free? seriously? go to Israel, spend a few years there, and you'll have a grip on the reality there. there is no free aid, Israel pays back for everything, with interest.

Turkey is threatening war? Israel's actions was an act of war on Turkey.

I wonder what would Turkey have done, if Israel sent out aid ships to help the Kurds. Or the Armenians, back in the day.

My name is URL

dyasny wrote: »

aid workers armed with clubs and knives? that's not even funny

Damn right.. a boat carrying 500+ people should have neither knives for cutting food nor tools for fixing ship. They probably even had duct tape to silence the dissenters .. the dirty rotten scumbags that the Aid workers are!

bonkey

dyasny wrote: »

if you watch the screencasts, you'll see white flags flown while the soldiers were attacked.
the other 5 ships did not resist at all.

And this makes the evil terrorists plan any less incredibly dumb....how?
Even worse....how does it make the Israeli's any less incredibly dumb for falling for it? You're basically saying they were told which was the only ship which hadn't surrendered....and so were completely taken by surprise by it not having surrendered.

Anyhow, if riot control was expected, another unit would have been used

You've lost me. The Israeli's sent in "shoot to kill" troops rather then crowd-control troops because.....they weren't expecting to need to control a riotous crowd???? Unless they were expecting to go in and kill some people, this doesn't appear to be very logical.

bonkey

dyasny wrote: »

o
probably because you have no clue

Don't make this personal.

dyasny

My name is URL wrote: »

Damn right.. a boat carrying 500+ people should have neither knives for cutting food nor tools for fixing ship. They probably even had duct tape to silence the dissenters .. the dirty rotten scumbags that the Aid workers are!

right, so the soldiers that came onboard to inspect the ship that wouldn't comply with the demands to leave a restricted area were not attacked by those "tools"? and how exactly is a slingshot a tool? or a metal rod? why did they have gas masks handy?

do you really think they weren't prepared and waiting for a boarding? have you watched the security cam footage from the ship?

dyasny

bonkey wrote: »

And this makes the evil terrorists plan any less incredibly dumb....how?

dumb? it worked!
you're thinking like a European, or an American, or an Israeli really - thinking nobody is crazy enough to send people out to their death just to organise a media scandal. The organizers of this flotilla are the same people who organized suicide bombings. They do not think like a normal civilized person.

Even worse....how does it make the Israeli's any less incredibly dumb for falling for it? You're basically saying they were told which was the only ship which hadn't surrendered....and so were completely taken by surprise by it not having surrendered.

I'm not saying it wasn't dumb to fall for it. In Israel a lot of shouts are raised as to why the ship wasn't simply incapacitated, so it would just float away elsewhere, without having to board it.

You've lost me. The Israeli's sent in "shoot to kill" troops rather then crowd-control troops because.....they weren't expecting to need to control a riotous crowd????

when you declare you're a pacifist and a peace activist, why should anyone expect you to be planning to raise a riot?

Unless they were expecting to go in and kill some people, this doesn't appear to be very logical.

that unit is the marines' equivalent. they are the ones supposed to handle marine missions. marine missions can be anything, including rescue missions, btw. but crowd control, at sea? whom would they train on, dolphins?

Brown Bomber

dyasny wrote: »

oh, no? so the flotilla didn't reach its objectives?

Clearly not.

dyasny wrote: »

aid workers armed with clubs and knives? that's not even funny.
the ships were headed for a marine blockade zone, of course they would be stopped, that was the whole point

"Stopped"??? Your definiton of "stopped" is to send an elite unit of commandos onto a civilian aid ship in international waters and open fire indiscrimanately killing ten and wounding 60??? And then illegally kidnap them? Think you need a new hebrew-english dictionary.

And according to you Al-Qaeda has some serious competition on their hands:rolleyes:...Someone should contact interpol! quick!!!. This international brigade have recruited nobel laureates, former US ambassors, sitting Knesset members, mothers, children, babies, elderly men and women, even 80-year-old holocaust survivors:eek: They are known to travel to impoverished people bringing toys and wheelchairs. When fired upon they are know to be armed and not-very dangerous. Their weapon of choice is the clenched fist and chairs.

This fabrication (like almost everything you have posted) of aid workers as terrorists is one of the most disgusting elements of the whole savage affair.

Yitzhak Rabin

dyasny wrote: »

comply with the demands to leave a restricted area

I forgot that international waters was a restricted area controlled by Israel.

Yitzhak Rabin

dyasny wrote: »

that unit is the marines' equivalent. they are the ones supposed to handle marine missions. marine missions can be anything, including rescue missions, btw. but crowd control, at sea? whom would they train on, dolphins?

Or maybe a mock up ship deck on land, like every other marine unit.

Are you trolling, seriously?

My name is URL

dyasny wrote: »

right, so the soldiers that came onboard to inspect the ship that wouldn't comply with the demands to leave a restricted area were not attacked by those "tools"? and how exactly is a slingshot a tool? or a metal rod? why did they have gas masks handy?

do you really think they weren't prepared and waiting for a boarding? have you watched the security cam footage from the ship?

Yes, I've watched the videos of the incident. None of them are in any way conclusive as to what happened in the lead-up to the raid or the shooting dead of civilians.

Why would they not have gas masks? There's many things that could go wrong on a ship in which gas masks would be needed.. if the exhaust system fails you're not going to last long in the engine room without a gas mask.. or if pirates attack your boat they could use gaseous grenades.. I'd like to have masks on board should such a thing happen.. and slingshots are widely used for fishing, something else that regularly takes place on boats

dyasny wrote: »

dumb? it worked!
you're thinking like a European, or an American, or an Israeli really - thinking nobody is crazy enough to send people out to their death just to organise a media scandal. The organizers of this flotilla are the same people who organized suicide bombings. They do not think like a normal civilized person.

And Israel are the same nation that organised the forgery of passports in order to carry out assassinations.. many would call that state terrorism, I wouldn't personally, but I wouldn't call those on the flotilla suicide bombers either