Eircom enacts three strikes rule

Amhran Nua

Well, it seems they went ahead and enacted a three strikes rule in Eircom.

EIRCOM WILL from today begin a process that will lead to cutting off the broadband service of customers found to be repeatedly sharing music online illegally.
Ireland is the first country in the world where a system of “graduated response” is being put in place. Under the pilot scheme, Eircom customers who illegally share copyrighted music will get three warnings before having their broadband service cut off for a year.
The Irish Recorded Music Association (Irma), whose members include EMI, Sony, Universal and Warner, reached an out-of-court settlement with Eircom in February 2009 under which the telecoms company agreed to introduce such a system for its 750,000 broadband users.
The mechanism by which it operates was challenged in the courts by the Data Protection Commissioner.
Mr Justice Peter Charleton ruled in the High Court that a broadband subscribers internet protocol (IP) address, which Eircom will use to identify infringing customers, did not constitute personal information.
It is understood that, during the pilot phase, Eircom has agreed to process about 50 IP addresses a week. Irma is using a third-party firm, Dtecnet, to identify Eircom customers who are sharing, and not simply downloading, a specific list of its members’ copyrighted works on peer-to-peer networks. The operation of the scheme will be reviewed after three months.

Just in case anyone is confused over what that means, your internet can be cut off if your internet habits are categorised as "suspicious".

No court of law is involved, no proof is required, no intervention from the justice system. Indeed, you don't even need to be pirating anything, if you are downloading open source ISOs you can be cut just as quickly.

Ireland is the first country on earth to have this enacted. This also goes against EU rulings on the matter.

There is no proxy, no encryption and no possible disguising of your internet browsing habits against this, if the company that is providing internet access thinks you are acting suspiciously, they can and will cut you off.

On general principles I just got off the phone with a very nice man in BT about transferring over our internet connection, I'll save money on a faster service and have been assured that BT has no intention of enacting a three strikes rule. Took about ten minutes.

This is the best way to deal with the issue - tell everyone you know, your friends and family, to move away from Eircom and go to another provider. Its time to push back against this overweening corporate presence in our homes and on our communications network. If its not internet they are delivering, its not money they'll be getting.

Biggins

Switched away from Eircom some time ago.
Another reason why I'm glad I did so.
Expect their ass to be hauled up in the European court at some stage for going against any possible rulings.

Hmm.. Even more reason to crack their crap wep codes and download of someone elses internet.
I'm on NTL so no reason to do this by the way.

moonpurple

there are other companies you can use... :rolleyes:

Biggins

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmm.. Even more reason to crack their crap wep codes and download of someone elses internet.

If your in Germany, its the law now that your net access HAS to be password protected by the way.
See here: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_GERMANY_WIRELESS_PASSWORDS?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Savman

Eirwho?

Menengroth™

Hopefully they lose a tonne of customers due to this, so they realise such a move is untenable. Would never use eircom, and I advise anyone using it to move, now!

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmm.. Even more reason to crack their crap wep codes and download of someone elses internet.

Only if you don't like them, otherwise their net could prove a useful backup if yours ever goes down!

Bonito

*Eircom have less than 6 months left due to being rip offs*

Fúck you very much Eircom. €57 for unlimited 3 meg broadband and unlimited calls. So, why the fúck were my bills €100 a month? Eh eh eh? Yeah, exactly. I now get 7megs and unlimited calls from UTV for €47 a month. And yes, it's ALWAYS €47 a month. It only changes if I ring directory inquiries or outside Ireland, NI, IoM, England, Scotland & Wales.

UTV kicks ass. :cool:

BTW. A 3 meg Eircom line speed test came back as barely 2 megs. I speed tested my UTV broadband and I'm getting 6megs. :cool:

PK2008

Quick question:

Is downloading 20 GB of pr0n per day considered suspicious?

bonerm

Great to see Eircom doesn't apparently even want subscribers now.

I wonder is it just a case of Eircom wanting an excuse to cut off their more intensive users (ala Esats 'no limits' service several years ago)?

TPD

On UTV as well here, never had any hassle with them. Can't see this ending well for Eircom.

Bonito

PK2008 wrote: »

Quick question:

Is downloading 20 GB of pr0n per day considered suspicious?

Depends on where you're downloading from I think.

Knarr

Amhran Nua wrote: »

There is no proxy, no encryption and no possible disguising of your internet browsing habits against this, if the company that is providing internet access thinks you are acting suspiciously, they can and will cut you off.

How come I can access/use pirate bay with a proxy using an eircom network when its a banned/blocked site then?

Amhran Nua

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm on NTL so no reason to do this by the way.

Are NTL not UPC as well?

Cable operator UPC has resisted requests from Irma to implement a “three strikes” system and the case is in the courts next month. Last night, a spokeswoman for UPC said it does not see any legal basis for monitoring or blocking its subscribers’ activities.

We need to send a clear message about sidestepping the laws of the land to companies that try this, and if that means putting them out of business, well the people will have spoken. I'm in contact with a few people at the European level as well to see what can be done.

kylith

Bonito wrote: »

Fúck you very much Eircom. €57 for unlimited 3 meg broadband and unlimited calls. So, why the fúck were my bills €100 a month?

Line rental.


Eircom will haemorrhage customers over this.

Amhran Nua

Knarr wrote: »

How come I can access/use pirate bay with a proxy using an eircom network when its a banned/blocked site then?

Because you were accessing a proxy, Eircom have no means of telling what you do in that case. In this case, if the amount of data you download and upload is deemed to be suspicious, goodnight; you cannot hide that. There may be other flags as well, but thats all they need. Or they might just cut you off because they don't like your name.

Justice means accountability and thats what we don't have in this situation.

Bonito

kylith wrote: »

Line rental.


Eircom will haemorrhage customers over this.

I know but the crazy thing is, that €57 was supposed to include our line rental. Lying bástards. :mad:

landsleaving

Well that was a terrible move on their part.

If they're legit going to enforce this, half their customers will be cut off by about 6pm today

Biggins

Knarr wrote: »

How come I can access/use pirate bay with a proxy using an eircom network when its a banned/blocked site then?

Eircom have the legal right to ask a court to order access to the service that is providing you with the proxy service.
From those subsequent files, they can trace you by the way.

zootroid

Well hopefully people will see what is going on and switch to an alternative provider. Hope Eircom loses a fortune over this

Biggins

zootroid wrote: »

Well hopefully people will see what is going on and switch to an alternative provider. Hope Eircom loses a fortune over this

They eventually will I suspect.

kylith

Bonito wrote: »

I know but the crazy thing is, that €57 was supposed to include our line rental. Lying bástards. :mad:

I was paying them over €100 so I assumed that it included line rental even though I haven't had a phone in the house in about 6 years. It was crap too, could barely get online between 6pm and 9pm.

I'm now paying the same money for 10meg broadband and NTL basic telly. Much better.

Going to look into that fibre optic line soon.

Snowie

weve got a month left to go before we can switch...... BT pirate bay here I come

mikom

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Eircom enacts three strikes rule

Supposedly Andy Reid downloaded three Dubliners albums illegally......that's why he no longer plays for us.

Br4tPr1nc3

i had eircom broadband a couple of years ago,
it was a 2mb line, cos 40 euro for the broadband alone, and then another 40 on top for line rental.

gladly moved on to ntl, 10mb line for 40 euro a month, no line rental.

much much better!

Biggins

Biggins wrote: »

Eircom have the legal right to ask a court to order access to the service that is providing you with the proxy service.
From those subsequent files, they can trace you by the way.

That's why you use Tor or a proxy from Somalia.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Bye bye eircom... lol...

This is exactly what we needed actually. Something solid to dent their income

Fupping idiots...

Nemanja91

I'm with eircom and since all this has come up I am thinking of moving, to get UPC broadband do you had to have chorus tv aswell?

Nope, we just have the broadband from UPC.

Ciaran500

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Because you were accessing a proxy, Eircom have no means of telling what you do in that case. In this case, if the amount of data you download and upload is deemed to be suspicious, goodnight; you cannot hide that. There may be other flags as well, but thats all they need. Or they might just cut you off because they don't like your name.

Justice means accountability and thats what we don't have in this situation.

Eircom isn't monitoring anything, they get a list of IPs from a private firm and then send warnings onto you.

Amhran Nua

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Eircom isn't monitoring anything, they get a list of IPs from a private firm and then send warnings onto you.

Six of one half dozen of the other in fairness. This is like making vodafone responsible for crimes that might be organised using their phone networks.

Wossack

is eircon allowed give some random private company access to peruse your browsing habits/sniff your traffic?

gotta be infringing some civil rights there...

pwd

Nobody seems to have actually read the article.

It is understood that, during the pilot phase, Eircom has agreed to process about 50 IP addresses a week. Irma is using a third-party firm, Dtecnet, to identify Eircom customers who are sharing, and not simply downloading, a specific list of its members’ copyrighted works on peer-to-peer networks.

What they are saying is they are going to cut off IP addresses which are sharing specific copyrighted works. They're not just identifying "suspicious" habits. They're also only cutting off people who are uploading, and not just downloading. After warning them twice.

No trial or proof beyond that is being suggested: Indeed, the security flaw in eircom lines means that there is a reasonable chance of some people getting a first strike, without having pirated anything. However it's unlikely they would get a second and third strike before they found out what was happening. So that's going to be bad PR for eircom rather than anything much else.

They won't be able to prove that a specific individual is pirating. They will be able to identify IP addresses that are pirating. That's all they reasonably need to cut people off tbh. They're not trying to convict people of crimes. They're not even trying to take civil action. They're just cutting off a service for a logical reason.

The mentality of "How dare they try to stop me pirating things!" is funny.

bonerm

mikom wrote: »

Supposedly Andy Reid downloaded three Dubliners albums illegally......that's why he no longer plays for us.

Makes sense. Tho I mistakenly thought it was because he was a fat, fancy-Dan player who couldn't cover the ground and made little or no impact whilst playing for Ireland apart from maybe the odd goal or long pass against weak opposition or in a meaningless friendly.

Mister men

With Eircom the last 8 months after being with digiweb for 3 years.
Will be switching over to NTL in 4 months i'm afraid. Very bad move from Eircom imo.

star.chaser

that's ridiculous. they'll have no customers soon

Duggy747

I'm with UPC, I don't use p2p and I don't share (upload) any stuff so I got ziltch to be affected about by this news.

Unlike UPC, Eircom didn't bother to stand it's ground with more of a fight........didn't want to lose all that juicy money from cases being put against them from the media companies.

Anywho, in theory this is the big-wigs they're after, the types who uploads a serious amount of stuff online and seeds them out to a large number of people.

Eircom's bundle prices were rough, I'm with UPC on a 15mb for €40 a month.....their customer support is still fùckin' cack, though and the Cisco routers are the most dreadful pieces of hardware I've ever had to deal with.

Amhran Nua

pwd wrote: »

What they are saying is they are going to cut off IP addresses which are sharing specific copyrighted works. They're not just identifying "suspicious" habits. They're also only cutting off people who are uploading, and not just downloading. After warning them twice.

Yeah, this is the same music industry which has sued young children and in one memorable case a dead person for copyright infringement in the US.

pwd wrote: »

The mentality of "How dare they try to stop me pirating things!" is funny.

The mentality is more one of "how about due process and not making private companies into a police force at the beck and call of music industry associations".

Biggins

I suspect that the music rights bodies are using Ireland as an example to test this method on.
They tried to do it in other European countries and were quickly told where to get off.

PCros

zootroid wrote: »

Well hopefully people will see what is going on and switch to an alternative provider. Hope Eircom loses a fortune over this

Apparently another provider will be doing the same this week so wont be just Eircom.

UPC maybe??

skelliser

I switched to UPC last month because of this.

I suggest everyone moves. If you go to pirate bay site you get a message from eircom blocking the site. I will not have my internet censored. This is not communist china.

They are bringing UPC to court next month but they have already said they will fight this, UPC are a massive company and have the financial muscle to fight this.

Apologists here saying that normal users have nothing to worry about are deluded. This is a slippery road to travel down, where will it stop?

The music industry should embrace this technology, they are only interested in keeping there profit margins not entertaining the idea of having a sustainable business model.

neilthefunkeone

Play the innocent card.. "Oh i dont have my wireless router locked, must be the neighbors.."

Mr Freeze

Amhran Nua wrote: »

On general principles I just got off the phone with a very nice man in BT about transferring over our internet connection, I'll save money on a faster service and have been assured that BT has no intention of enacting a three strikes rule. Took about ten minutes.

Changed over to Vodafone when Eircom first announced this last year.

Cheaper and faster it is too.

Hard to know if they will ever enact such a rule though, time will tell.

ToniTuddle

Only just got broadband into the area I live so signed up with Eircom >.<
First bill was oddly high, of course they talked their way around it. Shall just have to wait and see what the next few are like. Stuck with them for another 10 months contract thingy.

I should be alright though....only ever be on Boards or YouTube! :pac:

Biggins

With Vodafone (was BT but they moved their broadband services in Ireland to them) so I'm ok for the moment.
On principle of sites being blocked, I think thats a disgusting infringement and as soon as that happens to me with a service I'd be signed up with, I will be dumping it as quick as a flash just out of said principle of freedom of ability to access all information, speech, etc.

Sykk

I hope they go bankrupt. Cúnts

Pascal the Rascal

I also am a hop, skip and a jumping out of Eircom asap but the judgment still throws up a few questions:
(1) Is this ruling specific to only downloading music using software from the P2P sites such as Bearshare, Limewire, etc?
(2) Even though the plaintiffs in the case were EMI, SONY B.G., UNIVERSAL and WARNER, does the ruling only apply to the music under those companies control?
(3) What about downloading the odd tune or two for example, from the many music blogs out there, or even if one wanted to download a tune from some obscure Bolivian dub-step combo or a Tuvan throat singer doing a version of Madonna's 'Borderline'?

yoyo

Pascal the Rascal wrote: »

I also am a hop, skip and a jumping out of Eircom asap but the judgment still throws up a few questions:
(1) Is this ruling specific to only downloading music using software from the P2P sites such as Bearshare, Limewire, etc?
(2) Even though the plaintiffs in the case were EMI, SONY B.G., UNIVERSAL and WARNER, does the ruling only apply to the music under those companies control?
(3) What about downloading the odd tune or two for example, from the many music blogs out there, or even if one wanted to download a tune from some obscure Bolivian dub-step combo or a Tuvan throat singer doing a version of Madonna's 'Borderline'?

From what I gather is its only if you share ie upload a file on a p2p network, however if you use torrents as they upload at the same time as downloading they will probably be the main target

Nick

Mark200

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Well, it seems they went ahead and enacted a three strikes rule in Eircom.
Just in case anyone is confused over what that means, your internet can be cut off if your internet habits are categorised as "suspicious".

No court of law is involved, no proof is required, no intervention from the justice system. Indeed, you don't even need to be pirating anything, if you are downloading open source ISOs you can be cut just as quickly.

Ireland is the first country on earth to have this enacted. This also goes against EU rulings on the matter.

There is no proxy, no encryption and no possible disguising of your internet browsing habits against this, if the company that is providing internet access thinks you are acting suspiciously, they can and will cut you off.

On general principles I just got off the phone with a very nice man in BT about transferring over our internet connection, I'll save money on a faster service and have been assured that BT has no intention of enacting a three strikes rule. Took about ten minutes.

This is the best way to deal with the issue - tell everyone you know, your friends and family, to move away from Eircom and go to another provider. Its time to push back against this overweening corporate presence in our homes and on our communications network. If its not internet they are delivering, its not money they'll be getting.

I really don't know how you came to such mad conclusions based on the article you quoted.

Why did you quote the word "suspicious" when that word is not used anywhere in the article?

Why did you say that people downloading open source ISOs could be caught up in this when it clearly says "music" and "customers who are sharing, not simply downloading".

You also said that there's no possible disguising of your internet browsing habits... but all the companies are going to be able to see is your IP address. I don't really understand how they could possibly find out the identification of a person based on their IP address. They can't. On a side note, for anyone who ever downloads using P2P (which is what this new rule is about), your IP address is already viewable by everyone who you are downloading the file from or uploading the file to.


It's just a load of scaremongering,

Greyfox

This is disgusting, I hope they lose loads of customers over this. I actually can't understand why anybody is still with Eircom when ALL the other Telecom companies are much cheaper.

Mark200

Greyfox wrote: »

This is disgusting, I hope they lose loads of customers over this. I actually can't understand why anybody is still with Eircom when ALL the other Telecom companies are much cheaper.

You know, the only outcome from this if someone does get their three strikes is that they can no longer get internet from Eircom... which just means they've to switch to another ISP.

Hardly a big deal since people are switching based on this article alone without getting a single strike.