Eoin Morgan Test cricketer

booth70

djimi wrote: »

Ordinarily I would agree that its too early to throw him into an Ashes series, but to be honest from watching Eoin come thru with Ireland and now in his time with England I get the distinct impression he is one of those players, not unlike KP, who thrives on the bigger stage and the challenge, and is not short on confidence and self belief. The Aussies will have a go at him for sure, no less than they will for the rest of the England team, but I also get the impression that they respect him as a player.

Its a series that could be the making of Eoin Morgan as a test cricketer if he performs well. I sincerely hope he does; to see an Irishman score a century in an Ashes test down under would be something quite special

Out for a duck today....he's fast turning into a one inning wonder:(

djimi

To be fair the rest of them arent looking a whole lot better; Pietersen appears to have completely forgotten how to bat! I would like to see Eoin score some big runs before the winter tho.

booth70

djimi wrote: »

To be fair the rest of them arent looking a whole lot better; Pietersen appears to have completely forgotten how to bat! I would like to see Eoin score some big runs before the winter tho.

KP , Strauss and Colly are 'unaxable'....If England lose this match it'll probably be Morgs head which will roll first....that'll be some story....from a hundred to a zero all in one series

djimi

Ill be honest, the first name I would currently strike off the team sheet is Kevin Pietersen. He needs to be told to go off and sort out his county situation and go play some cricket and get some runs; hes not going to bash his way back into form in test matchs by the looks of things. Even if it means going to SA or Australia to play state cricket; whatever it takes. He is currently offering nothing and is playing like a moron.

riffmongous

__________1st Test____2nd Test____ 3rd Test____ 4th Test

Strauss___ 45 - 0_____ 25 - 53_____ 15 - 4______ 13

Cook______ 8 - 12 ____ 17 - 4______ 6 - 110______10

Trott_____ 38 - 26____ 55 - 53_____ 12 - 36 _____77*

Pieterson__ 9 - 22_____ 80 - dnb ____ 6 - 23______ 0

Collingwood_ 82 - 1____ 28-dnb_____ 5 - 3_______ 0

Morgan____100 - 17____ 6-dnb _____ 17 - 5_______ 0

Prior _____ 6 - 102 ___ 15-dnb _____ 84 - 5______ 22

Pretty poor viewing, doesn't look good for Morgan and Collingwood

d'Oracle

I would absolutely disagree with you with every facet of my being on Colly and Morgan...

Neither did much worse than Cook or KP really.
ALso both have, with the exception of the second and third test, been in rather strong form. Unlike Cook and KP who haven't been up to much.

Also there is still a match to play now that Broad bagged that ton.

HonalD

Realistically, Eoin needs an injury to be sure of his starting place - he's still good enough to be in the first 13 squad though IMO.

riffmongous

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would absolutely disagree with you with every facet of my being on Colly and Morgan...

Neither did much worse than Cook or KP really.
ALso both have, with the exception of the second and third test, been in rather strong form. Unlike Cook and KP who haven't been up to much.

Also there is still a match to play now that Broad bagged that ton.

On average everyone might have done the same but the fact is KP and Cook managed to get the runs when people started questioning their places on the team. Now you can't start questioning KP's position again while ignoring the fact its been 5 innings since either Morgan or Collingwood got any sort of a score.

And with the way England are batting at the moment I wonder if they'll have to bat again this match.

d'Oracle

riffmongous wrote: »

On average everyone might have done the same but the fact is KP and Cook managed to get the runs when people started questioning their places on the team. Now you can't start questioning KP's position again while ignoring the fact its been 5 innings since either Morgan or Collingwood got any sort of a score.

And with the way England are batting at the moment I wonder if they'll have to bat again this match.

I get what you are saying, but
1) Cook had been WAY longer than 5 innings before people started asking questions.
2) you are pretty much the only person I've seen questioning their positions.

Also Colly will always be in that squad, he has shown up when the chips were down many times and is one of the finest fielder playing the game right now.

I actually agree with that about there probably not being second innings now.

riffmongous

d'Oracle wrote: »

I get what you are saying, but
1) Cook had been WAY longer than 5 innings before people started asking questions.
2) you are pretty much the only person I've seen questioning their positions.

Also Colly will always be in that squad, he has shown up when the chips were down many times and is one of the finest fielder playing the game right now.

I actually agree with that about there probably not being second innings now.

Don't get me wrong, personally I thought Cook should have been gone by now, I think they overlooked his poor run for as long as possible since they seem to be grooming him for the captaincy. And once he scored those runs that was his placed secured for as long as possible.

I think if Bell comes back people are going to have to question Morgan and Collingwoods places and like you said I can't see them getting rid of Collingwood because he brings so much to the team.

Corsendonk

Would be interesting to see if England promote Broad to number 7 so they can play 5 bowlers. I know its only one century but playing 5 bowlers sorts out alot of problems. Prior and Strauss then take too of the positions and I can't see England trying a new opening partnership at this late stage so Cook grabs a spot. Trott should be shoe in too due to his batting in this series. So then you got to decide between KP, Morgan, Collingwood and Bell.

d'Oracle

riffmongous wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, personally I thought Cook should have been gone by now, I think they overlooked his poor run for as long as possible since they seem to be grooming him for the captaincy. And once he scored those runs that was his placed secured for as long as possible.

I think if Bell comes back people are going to have to question Morgan and Collingwoods places and like you said I can't see them getting rid of Collingwood because he brings so much to the team.

Bell reminds me of Cook in that he does half nothing for matches on end then explodes with a knock of pure flair.
Its a good point though cos he is an obvious threat to Morgan.

riffmongous

Corsendonk wrote: »

Would be interesting to see if England promote Broad to number 7 so they can play 5 bowlers.

Broads definitely been maturing as a batsman but I wonder if England would ever feel comfortable with 6 specialist batsmen against Australia?

reb73

A nice write-up on Eoin Morgan by Simon Huges in the Telegraph (linked through Cricinfo Surfer.

It would be a good exposure for him in the Ashes and hope he does well!

wicklowwestie

I've been listing to the recent England Pakistan games over the last few weeks and there has been alot of talk about Morgan being dropped from the test team for their upcoming tour of Sri Lanka. He's after being bowled out again there for 15 in the last 1 day game as well. I was wondering if he is dropped from the test team and England start to see him strictly as a ODI cricketer what is the story with the possibility of him switching back to Ireland. It's not that I want to see the lad fail but I'm being selfish and thinking that if we had a team with Morgan batting for us it would be much better for Ireland obviously. Is it a case that Morgan would have to intentionally stop playing all forms of cricket for england and wait 4 years to play for Ireland again? If so it seems like a mental rule. Do you think that if there was no future for Morgan in the english test team that he could be persuaded to make a decision to come back, he's still only young but 4 years is a long wait?

Cardinal Richelieu

wicklowwestie wrote: »

I've been listing to the recent England Pakistan games over the last few weeks and there has been alot of talk about Morgan being dropped from the test team for their upcoming tour of Sri Lanka. He's after being bowled out again there for 15 in the last 1 day game as well. I was wondering if he is dropped from the test team and England start to see him strictly as a ODI cricketer what is the story with the possibility of him switching back to Ireland. It's not that I want to see the lad fail but I'm being selfish and thinking that if we had a team with Morgan batting for us it would be much better for Ireland obviously. Is it a case that Morgan would have to intentionally stop playing all forms of cricket for england and wait 4 years to play for Ireland again? If so it seems like a mental rule. Do you think that if there was no future for Morgan in the english test team that he could be persuaded to make a decision to come back, he's still only young but 4 years is a long wait?

Lol doubt he will get dropped from all forms, paper never refused ink. They were just talking about Morgan because with his style and the conditions they expected him to be the best batsman against Pakistan. Bell and Pieterson scored less runs in the Test matches than him.

djimi

He has to wait 4 years after the last game he played for England (in any form of the game) in order to qualify for Ireland again, same as Joyce.

I really dont expect Morgan to play for Ireland again for a very long time. His place in the test team is in doubt (his trigger movement and general setup at the crease is appalling for a test cricket batsman) and I think when the likes of Bresnan are fit it will be Morgan who makes way, but he is an excellent ODI batsman and I see him in the ODI team for quite a while yet.

SSK

Have any of the more seasoned cricket watchers/players any opinions about his overly exaggerated "spring" he's been displaying the last couple of weeks.

I know he's always had the crouch taking his guard but lately just as the ball is bowled he drops his knees completely before bouncing back up again to hit the ball. It really is bizarre to watch and goes against all laws of hand-eye coordination and proper cricket technique.

I love watching him play but I don't see any way he succeeds in tests (or for that matter improves his ODI play, which hasn't been fantastic lately) by springing around the place as the ball is bowled. Compare him to someone like Cook who faces every ball so serenely. Surely Flower or Gooch would be working with him on this?

SSK

Have any of the more seasoned cricket watchers/players any opinions about his overly exaggerated "spring" he's been displaying the last couple of weeks.

I know he's always had the crouch taking his guard but lately just as the ball is bowled he drops his knees completely before bouncing back up again to hit the ball. It really is bizarre to watch and goes against all laws of hand-eye coordination and proper cricket technique.

I love watching him play but I don't see any way he succeeds in tests (or for that matter improves his ODI play, which hasn't been fantastic lately) by springing around the place as the ball is bowled. Compare him to someone like Cook who faces every ball so serenely. Surely Flower or Gooch would be working with him on this?

kryogen

Havent noticed a big change in his action tbh.

SSK

It just seems like he's doing a bit of a bounce these days as opposed to staying in his crouch and then rising to play a shot.

djimi

Even with my somewhat limited coaching ability I can see that there is a lot that is very wrong about Morgans trigger movement. There is far too much going on, nothing is steady and his head is all over the place. A top level bowler wont be long figuring out how to exploit this, and I think its going to hold him back if he really wants to make it as a test batsman.

Cardinal Richelieu

Well then if he has a flaw in his batting for test cricket would a test playing Ireland want him back?:D

kryogen

djimi wrote: »

Even with my somewhat limited coaching ability I can see that there is a lot that is very wrong about Morgans trigger movement. There is far too much going on, nothing is steady and his head is all over the place. A top level bowler wont be long figuring out how to exploit this, and I think its going to hold him back if he really wants to make it as a test batsman.

His action is without a doubt going to hold him back at the highest level.

Its what he does naturally though unfortunately. Katich has the irritating action of walking across his stumps as the ball gets bowled, top class bowlers will take advantage of things like this.

KP weaknesses in his defense that are exploited at times.

Ponting has an excellent action, Clarke too. Strauss when on form has a great stance, it is no accident that those with fidgety stances/actions have less success in the Test arena. Bowlers have a long time to figure out how to get you out.

In the limited overs game its not as important, but the top guys will still exploit it more often then not.

I like Morgan, always have, but he needs a lot of work to become a Test batsman good enough to play for England. It is his stance that helps him with some of his more unorthodox shots though too!

He is a great 20/20 batsman I think, a very good One Day batsman, but a poor Test batsman.

Dozen Wicked Words

So, as expected Eoin Morgan has been dropped for Englands tour of Sri Lanka.

England coach Andy Flower said: "He's had a tough tour of the UAE, we've been here for two months and it's been hard work for him.

"He has got some work to do I think on his Test game - that's going to be quite difficult for him considering his next cricket is going to be IPL [Indian Premier League] cricket.

"When he comes back he'll have limited exposure to opportunities to get four-day cricket under his belt so he has got to go away and give some serious thought to his method in Test cricket.

"I still think he has a very exciting future in Test cricket, he's only 25 years old and he's a very talented player, a very confident player and a very dangerous player."

BBC Story

djimi

Sadly this is not a surprise. He needs to go back to Middlesex and spend the summer working hard at the 4 day game. He really needs to find someone to work with him to sort out his batting action as well.

SSK

Yeah no surprises and Flower doesn't seem happy at all with him going to play IPL instead of going back to Middlesex. If someone like Taylor or Bairstow gets a shot at the test team over the summer and does well it could be a long road back to test cricket for Morgan.

And just to highlight what I was talking about in relation to his crouch earlier, look at the video below from 2009. I have no idea why his stance has gone as bizarrely crouched as it is now but he looks far more in control in that innings than any I've seen from him lately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUL8nl57StI

djimi

The stance he has in that video is a lot more like what he should be using now. This nonsense of bouncing around as the bowler is coming in is doing him no good whatsoever; it goes against every fundamental aspect of a batting stance and I really do not see how he benefits from it (except maybe if he wants to play the odd outrageous ODI shot).

Dozen Wicked Words

Very good article in the Guardian Cricket Supplement about people writing Morgan off already. Interesting stats about the start of Mathew Haydens Test career, and ultimately his fantastic success he had.

That failure has precipitated the crazy and fairly widespread assumption that Morgan's Test career is over at the age of 25. At the same age, Matthew Hayden had scored 261 runs at an average of 21.75 and would not play Test cricket again until he was 28..........Hayden ended up with 8,625 Test runs at 50.73

Its a very good read, link to whole article HERE

djimi

Id hope that noone is writing off Morgan just yet! I feel he has issues that need sorting but I have never had any doubt in my mind that Morgan has the right mentality and temprement to be a quality test batsman, and I am hoping that he will now go back to Middlesex, work hard with the coaches and come back better equiped to succeed at test cricket.