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Rape accused to be given anonymity

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    #32
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I'm really struggling to see the down side to this, other than it singling out rape for special treatment.

    Not asking who agrees or not but can someone explain the actual logic of those who are dead set against this idea?

    Apparently it will stop women who have been raped coming forward and perpetuates the myth that most people who accuse someone of raping them are making it up. Load of BS TBH. Typical of the over the top misandry that tries to pass itself off as feminism these days.


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    #33
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Apparently it will stop women who have been raped coming forward and perpetuates the myth that most people who accuse someone of raping them are making it up. Load of BS TBH. Typical of the over the top misandry that tries to pass itself off as feminism these days.

    I would have thought it would help that since the woman doesn't have to fear that it will get out through people working out who the man was last with.

    I really can't see the downside to this and am quite disappointed by the backlash.


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    #34
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I would have thought it would help that since the woman doesn't have to fear that it will get out through people working out who the man was last with.

    I really can't see the downside to this and am quite disappointed by the backlash.

    I imagine that a part but not all of it is due to what Esther Rantzen calls gender blindness.

    Like no-one could have predicted the level of clerical sex abuse, or by teachers,fathers and sports coaches in Ireland and you have a stereotype abuser image as a male.

    So I imagine part of it by Womens Groups is to preserve the status quo.Its uncharted territory and there is fear of the unknown.

    It shouldn't diminish women if another woman is an abuser.In the UK Childline is reporting the highest increase of calls by boys being abused by their mums. Scary and provocative stuff.



    3.3.2 Female perpetrators
    [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]
    In 2008/09, 2,142 children who called about sexual abuse reported that their perpetrators were females, accounting for 17 per cent of the calls.
    Among this group, 1,311 children (11 per cent) cited their mother as the perpetrator, making mothers the main female perpetrators. Mothers were the perpetrators for 4 per cent of girls and 20 per cent of boys.
    In 2004/05, 923 children counselled by ChildLine named female abusers and in 2008/09 2,142 children named female abusers. This is an increase of 132 per cent.
    [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]
    "My mum tried to rape me last night. I am upset. My mum came in from the pub drunk, asked me to take my clothes off and tried to put a rubber thing inside me. My mum is drinking a lot since Dad had broken up with her. Mum is in the pub now. I have not talked to her since last night." (Boy, aged 11)
    "I am physically and sexually abused at home by Mum. It is been happening since I was two years old. I feel sad." (Girl, aged 12)
    [/FONT][/FONT]

    http://www.nspcc.org.uk/inform/publications/casenotes/clcasenotessexualabuse2_wdf69493.pdf[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]
    [/FONT][/FONT]


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    #35
    LostinBlanch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,908 ✭✭✭LostinBlanch


    Well it looks like the backlash is working if what is written in the sidebar to this article is true.
    Plans to grant anonymity to defendants in rape trials were thown in to chaos earlier this week after Ken Clarke indicated that MPs will be given a free vote on the issue.

    The Justice Secretary admitted there was no 'consensus' among any of the main parties - despite it being included as a pledge in the coalition's first programme for government.

    David Cameron has already signalled that the original plans will be dramatically scaled back following an outcry from Labour MPs and feminist campaign groups.

    They have pointed to the case of London taxi driver John Worboys, saying more than 80 victims came forward after he was charged.

    Labour MP Emma Reynolds said: 'Anonymity for rape defendants would have prevented this from happening.'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287534/Innocent-Warren-Blackwell-served-3-years-false-rape-claim-fantasist.html#ixzz0rDAd6Aw5


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    #36
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    LostinBlanch wrote: »
    Well it looks like the backlash is working if what is written in the sidebar to this article is true.

    Your sidebar refers

    Innocent man jailed for 3 years over false rape claim - despite police knowing 'victim' was a fantasist
    By REBECCA CAMBER
    Last updated at 9:25 AM on 18th June 2010
    Comments (150)
    Add to My Stories
    A man jailed when a woman falsely cried rape told of his fury yesterday after learning that police knew the woman was 'unreliable'.
    Warren Blackwell, 40, spent three years in jail as a convicted sex attacker until his 'victim' was unmasked as a fantasist who had accused other blameless men.
    The woman - named under Parliamentary privilege as Shannon Taylor - said he indecently assaulted her outside a social club in the early hours of January 1, 1999, after a New Year's Eve party.
    A report revealed yesterday that officers were told Taylor was 'unreliable', ' unstable' and craved attention - but they failed to disclose it at his trial.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287534/Innocent-Warren-Blackwell-served-3-years-false-rape-claim-fantasist.html#ixzz0rDPzASLb

    Didn't the same happen here with Nora Walls conviction and didnt her co-exonerated die before he was compensated. :mad:

    In Nora Walls case, her accuser made up stories and tried to justify them afterwards as motivated by lesser accusations. The accusers should have been prosecuted but never were.


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    #37
    TitoPuente
    Closed Accounts Posts: 549 ✭✭✭TitoPuente


    Nice to see the system protecting men for a change. Any 'feminist' groups who would oppose this legislation have shown their true colours.


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    #38
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    TitoPuente wrote: »
    Nice to see the system protecting men for a change. Any 'feminist' groups who would oppose this legislation have shown their true colours.

    Anyone found not guilty has a huge hurdle to climb in life without having the benefit of anonymity almost unlike almost any other crime.

    The whole there never being smoke without fire and the stigma attached to an accusation means that even if someone is found not guilty they are never fully exonerated.

    Anyone who opposes it wants to punish the innocent with the guilty and its not about justice anymore but about gender.


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    #39
    TitoPuente
    Closed Accounts Posts: 549 ✭✭✭TitoPuente


    CDfm wrote: »
    Anyone found not guilty has a huge hurdle to climb in life without having the benefit of anonymity almost unlike almost any other crime.

    The whole there never being smoke without fire and the stigma attached to an accusation means that even if someone is found not guilty they are never fully exonerated.

    Anyone who opposes it wants to punish the innocent with the guilty and its not about justice anymore but about gender.

    Yeah. I couldn't agree more.


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    #40
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    CDfm wrote: »
    The whole there never being smoke without fire and the stigma attached to an accusation means that even if someone is found not guilty they are never fully exonerated.

    Same goes for pretty much any crime IMO. Even when found innocent people who are accused are labelled criminals by and large. As has been said before on this thread 'mud sticks'.


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    #41
    TitoPuente
    Closed Accounts Posts: 549 ✭✭✭TitoPuente


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Same goes for pretty much any crime IMO. Even when found innocent people who are accused are labelled criminals by and large. As has been said before on this thread 'mud sticks'.

    This is true but rape is such a difficult crime to prove anyway that the cloud of suspicion will always be that much heavier for a rape accused found innocent.

    For example, if you're accused of murder and your council proves that you are innocent without anything shady or untoward in the trial, most people will assume you are innocent. Particularly if it was proved that you weren't even at the scene of the crime.

    With rape, you'll always be looked on with suspicion unless you can emphatically prove that you were never even alone in a room with your accuser. If, say, you had completely consentual sex with a woman and she woke up with a bit of a hangover, regretting it and resenting you and she ends up deciding to accuse you of raping her rather than just living with her bad decision. Well, it's her word against yours. Even if you're found innocent, your life will still be a nightmare.

    I know people on this thread disagree but I have to say, in my opinion accusing someone of rape is up there with the crime of rape itself in terms of sheer malice and evil. Just my opinion.


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    #42
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    TitoPuente wrote: »
    I know people on this thread disagree but I have to say, in my opinion accusing someone of rape is up there with the crime of rape itself in terms of sheer malice and evil. Just my opinion.

    I'd be inclined to agree. Anyone who wrongly accuses someone of raping them is trying to ruin that persons life - pure and simple. There is no justification for it.


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    #43
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Same goes for pretty much any crime IMO. Even when found innocent people who are accused are labelled criminals by and large. As has been said before on this thread 'mud sticks'.

    But with rape its a bit different because of its very nature and its seriousness.After murder its up there.

    And yes, mud sticks, if a man is exonerrated in a murder case in most cases he will be homeless and jobless.

    So if a womans reputation/identity gets protected (and rightly so) during a case then so too should the accused.

    In the case of rape it is very similar. So there should be parity in protecting the reputations of both the accused and accuser. I dont know of any prosecutions for false allegations in Ireland or support systems etc for those cleared.


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    #44
    TitoPuente
    Closed Accounts Posts: 549 ✭✭✭TitoPuente


    The public has nothing to gain from finding out the identities of rape accused men unelss they're found guilty. Other than to take it upon themselves to start a witchhunt or smear campaign.

    I would strongly welcome this legislation if it was brought into Ireland. Contrary to the opinion of these men-hating 'feminist' groups - I suspect that it would actually increase the number of genuine rape claims and reduce the number of false accusations. But I'm sure these women's groups would hate to lose the right to publicly destroy a man without having to prove that he has done anything wrong. :rolleyes:


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    #45
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    TitoPuente wrote: »

    I would strongly welcome this legislation if it was brought into Ireland. Contrary to the opinion of these men-hating 'feminist' groups - I suspect that it would actually increase the number of genuine rape claims and reduce the number of false accusations. But I'm sure these women's groups would hate to lose the right to publicly destroy a man without having to prove that he has done anything wrong. :rolleyes:

    Its shocking that groups that spew such venom get public funding.

    If an investment company gave statistics about investment performance they are regulated, if a phone company use comparisons they have rules to follow, if Tescos compare their prices to Dunnes it needs to have factual information.

    These groups loose sight of helping victims and get bogged down in "gender wars" maybe the power needs to be taken out of their hands.

    Why cant the state or the HSE provide these services??


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    #46
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Personally it scares the crap out of me that someone could irreversibly destroy my reputation and standing with friends, family and pretty much everyone who may know me with little proof to back it up.

    Rape is horrendous; but so is being falsely accused.

    I think its about time we considered the damage associated with social shunning (which can be traced back to false accusations) as well as the damage done by rape. Thankfully no-one here seems to think they are mutually exclusive. Sadly this is not universally felt, i have found.


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    #47
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_2M3LrfFAw


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    #48
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    "Mud sticks" "No smoke without fire"
    Even if the accused is found not guilty some people will still believe something was there.

    My own anecdote.
    Our primary school teacher managed to get himself in trouble. Comments were made then he was entering the girls changing rooms while they changed for PE.
    He was never popular to begin with but there was hysteria from some over this.
    The girl who lodged the complaint was the daughter of the chairman on the board of management, locals and parish priest are on this committee.

    Principal got suspended, investigation launched.
    In the end it turned out the chairman and the principal has some ongoing feud and the child lodged a complaint for something was never happened.

    He had to leave the parish, got reinstated by the Department but his career will never be the same.

    This wasn't rape but it was a serious complaint and a professional almost lost his permanent job over it.
    Anyone else who ends up in a court of law for a more serious charge may never recover even if they are innocent


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    #49
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    @feelingstressed That is very similar to the Michael Hannon case where he was exonnerated when his "child accuser" recanted as an adult. A child saying what she thinks adults want to hear.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/the-feminist-sirens-remained-quiet-for-the-victim-is-a-man-1728418.html

    I have often posted how brave the young woman was coming forward versus the wishy washy behavior of the people around her and the authorities it was amazing Michael Hannon ever was exonerated.


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